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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/7/2009 9:29:31 AM |
If the amount you paid was lower, would you still feel the same way about paying it?
I, too, feel for these men who are the recipients of unfairness--monetarily and in terms of custody. I wonder if part of the anger isn't always against the amount of support ordered, but the lifestyle enjoyed by their ex. I've seen lots of women who are still living exactly the same lifestyle after divorce as when they were married and living with two incomes, while the man is struggling to make ends meet. In fact, I remember a story in the news many years ago about a man who actually committed suicide in despair for the situation concerning child support and visitation.
I really feel that they should agree on what they want for the children and split those expenses down the middle--activities, clothes, etc with the sharing of utility bills split depending on how much time the child spends in each home. E.g. I have friends where Dad and Mom share child time half and half (even though one parent may officially have custody)--so neither parent should need to help with the other parent's utilities. Where Mom (or Dad) has the majority of the time, I can see some monetary value going into the utilities.
It's unfortunate that there often seems to be so much enmity between couples who split that they can't seem to be compassionate and fair towards the other person and put the interests of the child ahead of their emotions.
Nutt | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/7/2009 10:18:31 AM | Incidentally, the State of Ohio recently decided to hold unemployment compensation checks to laid off men to allocate those payments toward woman with alimony and child support order.
Being cases of men with other families unable to support and women receiving benefits when actually are working. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/7/2009 12:06:20 PM | Your mail restrictions might be a fortunate circumstance for not knowing about a case that corroborate your opinion but, can make you cry.
Fortunally, the State of Fl recently passed a legislation to ban it and there is another in NJ for discussion regarding substancial limitations. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/7/2009 12:47:44 PM |
I have yet to see a case where alimony was actually a good idea
Jaxi, I believe alimony was created to protect women back when they were expected to stay at home and raise a family. Even now, it's very difficult for the stay-at-home parent to get back into lots of careers because information, procedures, etc change so fast that the career they had been trained for often passes them by. It wasn't fair for a woman (or now man) to give up the career (because that was expected of them not necessarily because they wanted to) and then have no source of reasonable income when the man left her for his secretary, if you see what I mean. I feel alimony is fair in these kinds of circumstances--man or woman stays home with the kids and has no marketable career once the marriage fails. In situations where both parents work, I don't think alimony is fair.
Nutt | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/7/2009 1:09:36 PM | edited post
Is it just my biases or is there any truth to my observation that the ones who complain the most about not receiving enough cs are those parents who are themselves not working or not working full time?
Do you seriously believe this happens now as the norm? Still?
There are exceptions and those of both genders who abuse it. But nowadays, it's not the case anymore as the norm; more the exception.
I actually know of many circumstances where it is the man abusing it, not the woman, with the woman being the one paying the child support but again, both ways, it is not "lifestyle improvement", it's keeping a roof over one's head and food on the table, when one parent has overwhelmingly taken on the primary expenses and caregiving; since it took both to bring the kids in the world, and it stops at 18 whether the kids go to college or not (even if one of the parents stole the kids college funds and the other parent has to pick up the tab for the students on top of living expenses that are fully also picked up by them once the ex stops paying at 18; even with them still in school).
In most cases it is is supposed to be fair and equitable, and for the benefit of the kids, as a direct proportion to income and amount of time spent with the kids. Not the "lifestyle empowerment" of the woman or man, whoever ends up with primary custody.
Not anymore. The abused situations are the exception, not the norm.
but having whats supposed to be a good thing abused, either direction, is sad.
It's for the kids, not anyone else. Why does everything have to be the 'fight between the exes" when the kids end up being the ones to suffer in those cases? | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/8/2009 1:54:39 AM | "I actually know of many circumstances where it is the man abusing it, not the woman, with the woman being the one paying the child support..."
When 84% of the 7.8 million of Americans paying 40 billion dollars for alimony and child support are males - 1.6 million not being the biological father- I would say is the norm for the men being the abused and not the exception.
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/8/2009 4:19:01 AM | | i've seen both sides of this argument... it's not just a male v female side to this argument which is something i think alot of people forget. it's more a parent thing and basically some suck. if more people stopped worrying about what their ex's were or were not doing and instead focused on the most important part.... the kids themselves... then we'd all be alot happier. and as we all know kids are so much more observient than we at times realise... they are not stupid... as they grow and mature they will work out the truth of the situation without ever being need to be told. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/8/2009 11:19:28 AM | When 84% of the 7.8 million of Americans paying 40 billion dollars for alimony and child support are males - 1.6 million not being the biological father- I would say is the norm for the men being the abused and not the exception.
In the group of people I know, there is one man paying child support; literally every other one is the woman.
And in the case of the one man who is paying child support, trust me when I say not only is he not being abused, he is very, very much getting away with murder.
Mind you my state probably is more progressive than many others, though another of my friends not only (in a different state) is forced to pay support ev en though her ex makes literally five times more than her (most of his income paid to him because of his having his kids living at home with him) but she is not allowed custody. Not because she was a bad mother. But because he is tribal, she isn't; so she has no rights in tribal court; and they can't do custody hearing in anything but tribal court.
Again, not saying these are typical, but these are the situations I know either directly or firsthand. There have been many many improvements in support laws to make it fair; and impartial. Literally the only abuse I have heard of has been the man, not the other way around. But even with that, I don't assume every man abuses it when he is the recipient of child support; any more than I assume the woman is.
Obviously not every state has caught up; but many have; it is not nearly what it used to be. It's going in the right direction; but like the above poster said, it's not about paying support to the ex; it's about paying support for one's kids. Shouldn't that be a privilege, not a penalty? | |
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janlee
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Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 211 | |
| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/14/2009 11:23:49 AM | I am not taking the time to read everyone of these comments, I think I have read enough just on page 10. You all have no clue how your bitterness and your anger is effecting your children. I've been divorced for 11 yrs and my ex has never missed a child support payment..nor has he ever complained about how I have raised our son(the daughter was of age already when we divorced). We STILL do family holidays together as it benefits our children AND now our grandchildren. Our son turned 18 this past June and is graduated from school. He works but still lives with me and is still on my insurance until June(09). Which me ex still pays because he is a good and caring father. He also told me he will continue to pay the child support as long as our son lives here because he realizes how hard it is to feed and clothed kids. Especially when one is 6-4 and 190 pounds with a size 14 foot. YES, we still take care of him while he is out in the workforce TRYING to learn a trade that will hopefully someday give him a decent living where he can support his children also. We as responsible parents are only trying to give him the chance to get a decent foothold on life and maybe he will become a caring and loving father. I have never kept my son from his father although the judge said it was totally up to me. What he did to me has nothing to do with the kind of father he is. I hope my children grow up incapable of hatred. It will eat you alive and it doesn't benefit anyone..especially you.
IF your children are not being taken care of..then call the authorities..but..technically what kind of vehicle your ex drives is NOT y0ur business. The child support is for the custodial parent no matter which one it is. It is for things like lights/gas/water/phone/clothing/personal supplies/and YES, it is to even help with the rent or house payment(roof over their heads) and a vehicle to get them back and forth to whatever they choose to do. My nephew has full custody of his 5yr old son and his ex pays child support. SOOOO its not always women that get custody.
There are things that the child support doesn't really cover or things that maybe one parent can't afford. Lets just take for instance..sports equip, senior pictures, graduation announcements, dances, dresses for dances, tux's. It cost approximately $350 everytime my son went to the prom. Tux, flowers, tickets, dinner. They are only young once, do not begrudge them of all that is there for them just because you 2 had a bad divorce or because one or the other of you is jealous of what the other has.
I am thankful that my ex and I decided that our children were the most important things in our lives, and that we have worked for the past 11 yrs to see that they know we both love them and to see us fighting all the time would not make for them ever having a healthy relationship. Amazing what becomes the "norm" for some children because of the thing their parents have shown them.
Ok, I'm off my soapbox and you all can think my ex is very stupid man, but to this day, we help our kids/grandkids/AND each other. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 7:28:24 AM | i think child support is c**p the reason is my ex husband has 3 childern one before us my two but the frist one get -wait for it £1.50 week we get £3 p/w -when his gilrfriends kids were living with them they were getting £44.!evern thought he was already living and supporting them so that should of been givern to HIS kids not hers but now there no loner living there but with there dad she as to pay but guess what they both disided they cant be botherd to pay so lets give up work ! so now i bring up both childern on my own plus work to make sure they have what they need .so child support can get stuffed .you cant realie on anything or sometimes anyone . | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 12:29:27 PM | On the way to school the other morning, my youngest, who has heard a whole, whole lot about which kids "matter" because they are the recipient of support (no, not from me), asked me if I was going to stop supporting them when they turned 18 too.
My oldest looked at him, laughed and said, "uh, __, I have been 18 a year and a half and mom not only didn't kick me out, she paid college even though dad took my college money. If she was going to stop supporting me too, wouldn't she have done it a long time ago, and our sister turns 18 in a month and she's not going anywhere either"
Why is it a child should think they are worth or not worth something based on monetary value based on a law, and people think their doing what should be a parental responsibility based on love is their being fleeced by their ex, when it is their being a loving supportive parent in ways they can, if they can't make the time to see the kids or they move where the child can't live with or see them based on their own choices?
I honestly don't understand why there is so much vitriol over something that both parties should consider a blessing and a responsibility they do gladly based on love.
I didn't have to get a house, get internet, drive the kids to school, do electric, cable, gas, 300 a week in groceries, any of it. I did it because they needed a stable place where they wouldn't have to change schools, they'd have a place to actually study, sleep, spread out, and could ahve their pets. I did it because I loved them and wanted them to be in teh best situation I could since the divorce wasn't their fault and they should have their lives disrupted as little as possible. The house is modest, not huge, I'm nto extravagent in any way, and they are here because they chose to live her. I have never poisoned their dad nor tried to stop a relationship with them ever. In fact I keep trying to keep the lines of communication open between them and him.
Why would the automatic assumptino then be that because they chose to live with me and I made a place for them, therefore I'm a money grabbing scamming abuser of support who should be made to feel like I'm stealing from my ex, when what he pays toward support is literally a pebble in a huge bucket of what I spend every month to keep everything going? I honestly don't understand the mentality of those who whine about the payments. Yes, they are sometimes (though obviously not always) not little; but trying to keep things going when starting over is shared by BOTH spouses, not just the one paying support. And the financial strappedness is also shared by both parents, not just the one paying support. I wish there was some benefit of the doubt given that both parents are just trying to do right by their kids, for their kids, because they both love their kids, and the sacrifices are also shared by both parents.
It would make so much less acrimony, there would be less estranged parents, and the kids wouldn't feel like pawns or burdens.
What a happy world that would be :) | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 12:53:51 PM | Here in the U.S. I pay close to 1/3 of my take home pay in child support and I have my daughter with me 50% of the time.
Ok first things first. Child support as it stands today is a farce. This quote is a clear example of how men are trampled by society when it comes to this issue. I mean, if he does have his child a true 50% of the time, then why on earth should he have to pay anything? C.S. should reflect the true ratio of care meaning that 50% is an equal and fair share of the right AND responsibility involved.
I personally think that many men would LOVE to have 50% custody. The fact is that society as a whole is NOT at all supportive of this type of arrangement. The truth is that when push comes to shove, we revert back to our old ways...where a "real" man is supposed to be out providing and not at home nurturing.
Employers expect men in traditionally male jobs to be available for work, not taking the kids to school or appointments.
Our career minded male friends scratch their heads in wonder at why we don't "wish to be successful" in life...
Our ex's feel now feel insecure about losing something (money, other resources and I'd argue social status) that was once automatic. Righteous entitlement abounds I assure you... You want to see a mob form, tell your ex you'd like half of the "baby bonus" and her friends will show up at your work to protest.
Hell, even our goverment and it's agencies want letters from teachers and doctors to PROVE that the 50% is legitimate before they'll even talk to us.
If we made 50% custody mandatory...to the point where society had no choice but to adapt and evolve then we'd be getting somewhere...because right now...It's all wrong, Donkey Kong. All wrong. | |
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janlee
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Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 215 | |
| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 1:52:50 PM | Employers expect men in traditionally male jobs to be available for work, not taking the kids to school or appointments.
WHAT? women don't work? women don't have jobs? women don't have responsibilities? are you serious? I work with guys that are still married and when their kids get sick they "50%" of the time leave work to go pick the kids up. WHY in the world would anyone think that a "traditional" male job is more important than lets say a "waitress" job? Where I come from we have joint custody IF it is warranted. Which in my case the judge told my ex that if it were up to him he would not even let him be near his kids but that it was my choice. Well, my choice was that no matter how brutal he was to me, he was not that way with his kids. He was their dad and they deserved that in their lives. We have since done what we feel has been best for our kids and grandkids and that is to co-exist outside of living together but still form a family bond with all holiday and other things considered.
My ex's job as an industrial millwright is NOT any more important to our kids well being as my job as a line tech with an automotive electronics company. EVERY job is just as important as the next because it takes them all to make the world what it is..or what it should be.
I believe that every child needs a custodial parent. A place that is theirs, their own room(not half the time), their own neighborhood friends, and their own school. Now, as for a room at the non-custodial parents house..that is great..but to me it is unfair and very confusing for kids to be passed around like a piece of luggage for a week or 2 week intervals. Custodial parent = child support. And as said earlier by someone else, it should not be considered a chore to support your kids. And any child support is really only a drop in the bucket to what it actually costs to raise a child. | |
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janlee
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Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 216 | |
| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 2:02:31 PM | | I would like to add that I aim this towards women paying support if the man is the custodial parent just as much as if the man pays if the woman is the custodial parent. It IS all about the children...isn't it? Many men make excellent custodial parents. There is no reason to think that women don't feel the same way as some of you men do. I have heard women gripe because they have to pay their ex child support and use the excuse that they(the ex) makes more money. It still in the end is what is best for the kids. I know sometimes its not easy to make ends meet with the economy the way it is. I bought all the Christmas presents for the past 7 yrs for everyone..and on the tag it is from both of us. Sometimes you just have to think about what is best for your family and let your own feelings stay hidden. Believe it or not gentlemen..some women do actually spend every penny and more on the kids..in some form or another. I also see where some non custodial parents sit in bars, drive expensive vehicles and forget about the kids they had in the past because they are so bitter towards their ex's that they think they are punishing "them". NOPE..you are punishing your own kids..wow, that makes you parent on the year(men and women both) | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 8:40:22 PM | Child support is for the child, not so the mother can stop working and live on it like so many woman think it means. I have seen my X spend on new toys, new furniture, washing machines, etc. using the child support I'm paying, yet she forgets I have my own bills to pay and she turns around last month telling me I'll have to pay more later on. WTF!, WTH? I'm paying over 500 a month and she wants more?! I have major debt to pay off and my own expenses every month.
Otherwise, yes when a man start another family by having more children those children have to be supported as well. You child is not more important in the law than those children. The child support will thus decrease. My x-wife's sister collects something like $27 a month or whatever since that man had many more kids.
Yes the law incentives men to have more children so as to lower support. Go figure.
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/15/2009 9:25:13 PM |
Yes the law incentives men to have more children so as to lower support. Go figure.
Maybe in your state, but in the one I have a case is makes no changes unless you remarry. Then they bend over backwards for you! They go from taking 55% of your income to only taking 50% of it! They see that 5% as a major decrease...
I would feel blessed with only 500 a month. My father fee as I call it is almost double that for one child. Her mom has 2 kids to cash in on and has a free 1400 a month to add to her household.
I don't have a problem paying, but would think that the person paying should be left with enough to live at least as well as the child being supported!
I pay more then the same state pays a mother of 4 to support her family!
As far as the OP's statement goes, Why should the man have to wait to go on with anything that could possibly resemble a real life until the first child is off cs?
They should help reset the amounts when other children become involved!
My other 2 daughters shouldn't have to live a substandard life because of birth order! | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/16/2009 9:47:34 PM | | It is very much so a male v famale issue when I have to work two jobs just so I can make ends meet. Barely get to see my daughter. Witness my daughters father running around wearing name brand clothing and I am wearing stuff bought at a resale shop. He goes out to the bar, movies, and countless other joys in life. I raise my daughter all on my own. I have a open door policy with him for visitation, you think he comes around. Ask him what she did at school today, last week, a year ago, he has no answer. This was not a case of stupid mom. When we met he was perfect. I got pregnant and for some reason his true colors came out. I never imagined the person I chose to start a family with would be like that. He is ordered to pay $50.00 in CS and has only made one payment to keep him from going to Jail. He is in arrears $15,000.00. I can't speak for all people out there but go to the FOC in any city and I guarantee every guy in there wished they had it that easy. He is not some young punk either he is 36. He doesn't want to give me money he thinks I will blow it. So my answer was buy things, and bring them over. I don't care. He won't do that either. I started my own company because I am not a day care mom. I want to raise my daughter. I work while she is in school and I am home every night. So when it comes to male v female, female v male yes it is and maybe you are lucky and don't have the battle, millions do. I am also here to tell you that my daughter is not missing out on anything I made sure she has a strong male influence in her life. She sees what goes on and she is not damaged in any way. My daughter is always on my mind. Maybe I am an exception to the rule. I also believe that our kids grow up fast enough on their own. I keep adult business away from her. She knows whats going on but I never discuss any of my problems with her father in front of her. I know she will make up her own mind and thats fine but she will not be fed one side or the other. Before any of you pass comments my way make sure to teach your Boys how to be men. Sperm donation is great for sperm banks. For you egg donors out there, you should have your reproductive organs ripped out. I applaud all single parents who give their all to making our future bright. | |
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janlee
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Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 221 | |
| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/17/2009 7:32:27 PM | congrats to you jenlin. I am very proud of you for doing your best to give your daughter a good and stable life.
My daughter does it too, with 4 kids..deadbeat fathers are amazing to me. NOT all are deadbeat dads. The worst thing about my grandkids is that not only do they have to do without some of the things other kids don't, it's that they also have to do without their dad. The kids did not do anything wrong. They do not deserve to be treated like they did, or they are the cause of the situation.
Like I said before..it IS or it should be all about the kids. For Gods sake, grow up and realize that once you have children, your wants and needs should be 2nd to what they need. Mostly what they need is love and time with each parent. But that does not feed nor clothe them. It takes money..sadly enough, alot of kids suffer because of the stupidity of their own parents thinking that "their" money will be wasted..ohhhh like on a home, food, clothing, a vehicle to get the kids places, school activities, sports, electric, water, laundry. It's all a part of raising a child. Support is for the custodial parent...to see that the child has a roof over their head, food in their stomach and clothes on their backs.
My kids are very lucky. I will admit that my ex husband is a great dad..a very loving, giving and caring dad. Anyone can be a father..but it takes a special person to be a dad. Donating your sperm does not make you a dad..nor does the egg make you a mom. Think about your kids..think about how they suffer when they are teased by other kids because they don't have what everyone else does. But do YOU have what you want? Of course you do. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/18/2009 8:26:16 AM |
WHAT? women don't work? women don't have jobs? women don't have responsibilities? are you serious? I work with guys that are still married and when their kids get sick they "50%" of the time leave work to go pick the kids up. WHY in the world would anyone think that a "traditional" male job is more important than lets say a "waitress" job?
Not at all what I said. At no point have I suggested that men jobs are more important...or anything even remotely close to that. I'm simply pointing out our even our relatively liberal western society still fosters an undercurrent that is unfair to men when it comes to parenting rights by playing on old values and beliefs.
Simply put, more often than not a man trying to be an equal parent isn't seen as someone trying to give more of himself to his child, he's suspected of trying to take something from the mother. Your alarmist tone and inability to resist the temptation to put words in my mouth proves my point. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/18/2009 8:44:45 AM | Interestingly enough, I believe that some employers also look down on the men who take time off work when their children are sick....another bias out there to contend with for the men. My daughter's father got laid off after becoming a 50% custody parent when he missed work to take care of her when she was sick. He had been with the company for over 8 years with a good history but his supervisor had talked with him prior to the layoff about the time he had missed taking care of our daughter.
My employer at the time would not have considered laying me off because it is almost accepted that a Mom will take care of sick children but a father? How dare he take time off work to be a parent. Prior to his "layoff", he had not had any bad reviews and the company went on to replace his position with another person. He could have fought it but what would be the point....why would he or any other man want to work for a company that comes down on a father for missing work due to the illness of their child?
This thread has gotten off topic though....lol...these types usually do though. | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/18/2009 8:49:08 AM |
My employer at the time would not have considered laying me off because it is almost accepted that a Mom will take care of sick children but a father? How dare he take time off work to be a parent
Exactly what I was getting at. Thank you. That's why I say that if custody were 50% by default, then society would be forced to change it's thinking and ways. Giving men permission to be the parents they want to be is what's missing here, not a desire to BE a parent... | |
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| Men who ?@#*& About Child Support and then go and start a new family???
Posted: 2/18/2009 9:00:15 AM | I dont know why men do this (and I know it can be reversed, some women suck too). My ex brought me to court for custody, but got himself stuck with a child support order. He didn't make a payment for over a year and then one day, out of the blew, I had a gut feeling and asked him if he happened to have a new kid. Suprisingly enough, he answered "Yes, his name is Tyler. He's seven months old". So the whole time he wasn't paying support, his new girlfriend was pregnant and giving birth to another kid of his. It was really surreal, he just moved on and was supporting a new baby, new girlfriend and her kid as well, yet life as my kids and I knew it was over. When we seperated, I was hoping he would clean up his act a bit and we would end up back together. So, we went from two incomes to one, our house got foreclosed on, we were forced to see our home auctioned and had to move, and now he lives in a nice little house with his new family. And here I am in the single parents forum, with very little hope of actually meeting a nice guy on here.
PS - there is still thousands and thousands of back child support due.
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