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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/23/2008 10:45:12 AM | I grew up believing in a godly being watching my every move from above.
I believed this all loving creature would send me to HELL for not obeying him.
I believed that in communion through Transubstantiation I was literally eating flesh and blood.
I believed in a world wide flood
People rising from the dead
That two people could have sex and repopulate the entire planet
That there are different languages because of the tower of Babel.
Atheists were angry, hateful people desperate to let GOD into their lives but afraid to, so they actively rejected Him.
There are winged pixies... er, "angels" flying around... literally.
That if you believed in God ENOUGH, anything could happen... healing, success, etc
and a hundred other things that I now rank up there with the Easter bunny and Santa.
and what do you believw now? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/23/2008 11:18:19 AM | SeattleRain:
I believed that in communion through Transubstantiation I was literally eating flesh and blood.
In Lutheranism, transubstantiation is considered a heresy. That is a Catholic/Orthodox belief, not a Lutheran one. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/23/2008 12:01:44 PM | passionandsong
where you wrote, in realtion to SEATLERAIN's self professed belief in a communion through Transubstantiation which his own church rejects (should've been a Catholic) his belief in People rising from the dead; two people having sex in the tower of Babel to repopulte the world from their UFO. and winged pixies... er, "angels" flying around, which he is now embarassed of...
and what do you believw now?
Don't encourage him, he is just shaking off the realization that he has been a practicing Catholic in a Lutheran Church and we don't want to trigger an episode. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/24/2008 10:56:17 PM | jacobus said:
In Lutheranism, transubstantiation is considered a heresy. That is a Catholic/Orthodox belief, not a Lutheran one.
What's that you say??? Not all sects of Christianity believe the same thing even though they are the Same Sect? Is this really NEWS to you? As it happened, in my desperate attempt to rediscover my failing, brainwashed belief in GOD, I tried many churches including the Catholic, Baptist, and "church of god".
No matter HOW you slice it, eating stale crackers and pretending it's FLESH and drinking wine and pretending it's BLOOD is something for kids to play at when they are playing 'vampire' when they are 8 years old, NOT for grown adults to really believe.
I noticed out of EVERYTHING I wrote, the only think you picked up on is transubstantiation and ignored the rest. No problem... I'm quite used to Christians picking and choosing; it's called "Cafeteria Christianity"
And to Rebecca... don't worry about my episodes. Not surprisingly, they all stopped as soon as I left Christianity.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 6:55:54 AM |
somehow I think God is gonna get ya for telling anyone to live life believeing there is no God.
You keep on believing that. It's your prerogative--just as it's my prerogative to think what I think.
I dont go to church but I fully believe in God. maybe you should ask God to help you belive there is a God before denying him. You just might get a sign.
I've never met you that I recall, so how would you know whether or not I should do this? How do you know I haven't already done this? You don't. You have no clue what I've done or haven't done in my nearly 47 years.
You take a great deal for granted--with no knowledge to back up what you think and say. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:21:27 AM | I dont go to church but I fully believe in God. maybe you should ask God to help you belive there is a God before denying him. You just might get a sign.
you can believw god exists all you want,but if you havent excepted the lord as your savior it wont matter.the lord does not expect you to be a certain way or have a certain life style to be forgivin,you are already forgivin.jesus died on the cross to erase our sins.when you give yourself to god you are shown a beautifull life.one that has little fear or worry.an understanding of love,joy,peace and mercy.you realize how hate consumes you,how you are not better than others or them better than you.it is amazing and impossible to emulate without the grace of god.god bless. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:02:35 PM | Seattlerain:
What's that you say??? Not all sects of Christianity believe the same thing even though they are the Same Sect? Is this really NEWS to you? As it happened, in my desperate attempt to rediscover my failing, brainwashed belief in GOD, I tried many churches including the Catholic, Baptist, and "church of god".
No need to get all antsy about it. If you look at the progression of the thread, one could easily infer that you listed transubstantiation out of the beliefs you "learned" from your days growing up as a Lutheran. I simply pointed out that that one in particular is dissonant from the others.
No matter HOW you slice it, eating stale crackers and pretending it's FLESH and drinking wine and pretending it's BLOOD is something for kids to play at when they are playing 'vampire' when they are 8 years old, NOT for grown adults to really believe.
If you say so. I'm certain that various intellectual, grown adults who defended the belief such as Sir Thomas More, John Cardinal Newman, and G.K. Chesterton would disagree with the notion that they are acting like "kids". In fact, Newman wrote about this objection himself, replying in part: "Once one realizes that transubstantiation is a miracle of God, any notion of impossibility vanishes, since God is omnipotent (all-powerful) and the sovereign Lord over all creation (Matthew 19:26, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 1:3). If mere men can change accidental properties without changing substance (for example, turning iron into molten liquid or even vapor), then God is certainly able to change substance without outward transmutation." You may disagree, but Newman was neither an irrational man nor a child.
I noticed out of EVERYTHING I wrote, the only think you picked up on is transubstantiation and ignored the rest. No problem... I'm quite used to Christians picking and choosing; it's called "Cafeteria Christianity"
Am I required to address everything you wrote? Ask, and ye shall receive.
However, I picked out only transubstantiation because I could see how experiences in Lutheranism could naturally lead to those other beliefs you listed, even though some of them are more like underdeveloped caricatures than genuine statements of faith. I pointed out one thing to make a clear difference between two Christian creeds. Certainly, there's no crime in that. Besides, I'm a forum poster, not your therapist. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:13:59 PM |
The same could be said about atheists
Yes, because we all know that we base our lives off a 2000 plus year old carpenter... | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 1:44:06 PM | If I believed there was a god, I would defend my belief with everything I had.
Because for me to believe in god, I would also have to believe he would send me to h3ll for "backsliding."
Why? Because He loves me. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 5:48:59 PM | Look around. All that exists had to come through some agency. Consider all the natural laws that exist to maintain this existance. Random chance would not bring that about. An intelligence far beyond our own had to be involved.
It's not random chance... the universe exists, all that is in the universe exists how it is because it adjusted to it's environment. not the other way around.
Also, I am a former Roman Catholic, I know about the bible, I have read it and I used to believe in it. You know what stopped me, what...turned me away from everything that you believe in?
The bible itself.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great story book, but that is all it is. So what right?
Well, Catholicism and Christianity are based on the writings in the bible but there are many things that are not only proven wrong but have been confirmed wrong by followers of those religions....
What does this all mean?
It means that YOUR religion (Catholicism and Christianity) is based on LIES and STORIES.
My personal favourite part of the whole thing is when I point out places in the bible where the followers of "God" weren't so nice to other people and the people I am talking to say that they only follow the good parts of the bible....that kinda doesn't make sense, its like reading a book, but only reading the important chapters...you miss other stuff by doing that.
People may believe what they want, but really the end result is the same for everyone, you die, you rot. That's it...do I find it depressing?
No, I think that it is encouragement to do everything I want in my lifetime, never miss an opportunity and always be the best person I can.
Instead of being the best follower I can so I will live forever in some eternal place that may or may not exist.
And another thing.....
Why does everyone assume it's the big bang theory if it wasn't "God?"
For all we know, this reality could have always existed end of story, nothing more, it's just always been there. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 5:57:33 PM | [quote}If I believed there was a god, I would defend my belief with everything I had.
Because for me to believe in god, I would also have to believe he would send me to h3ll for "backsliding."
Why? Because He loves me.{/quote]
There is a God and he does love you! If you "backslide" as you call it but repent and ask for his forgiveness..confess your sins you are forgiven..real simple concept. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 6:15:41 PM | There is a God and he does love you!
Then why would a god who loves me send me to h3ll if I didn't love him back?
Would you even date someone who loved you so much he would send you to h3ll if you didn't love you back? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:44:21 PM |
Would you even date someone who loved you so much he would send you to h3ll if you didn't love you back?
First that was a poor analogy, there is a difference between not loving someone and doing "evil" ....and second if you don't beleive in God, why do you beleive in h3ll???? Somewhere in the back of your mind are you worried? It is all about good vs evil.... | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:57:24 PM | Guy Named Ray:
Then why would a god who loves me send me to h3ll if I didn't love him back?
Sounds like one of those "is the glass half-empty or half-full" cases.
The way I see it, the "default" destination for most souls is hell, and by this, I mean the underworld. If you're "good" based on your deeds, you go to a part of hell that's a natural paradise (limbo, or sheol), and if you're "bad", you go to a part of hell that has torment and punishment (gehenna). In either case, it's not really God that's sending people to hell, it's people sending themselves to either limbo or gehenna by their choices in life. However, those who walk the path of the Christ have an additional option: eternal life in God's domain, which is heaven. Because it's God's domain and not man's, it's not something that can be earned just by "being good", anymore than, say, an American citizen can win the White House just by being a faithful taxpayer, or even a Medal of Honor recipient in a war. It's a free gift that's extended to those who live by the precepts of Christian faith.
On the contrary, it would be unjust for the unwilling soul to be sent to heaven. Surely the non-believer would be bored of worshiping God nonstop for eternity, right? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 10:18:26 PM | Jacobus said:
Then why would a god who loves me send me to hell if I didn't love him back?
Sounds like one of those "is the glass half-empty or half-full" cases.
The way I see it, the "default" destination for most souls is hell, and by this, I mean the underworld. If you're "good" based on your deeds, you go to a part of hell that's a natural paradise (limbo, or sheol), and if you're "bad", you go to a part of hell that has torment and punishment (gehenna). In either case, it's not really God that's sending people to hell, it's people sending themselves
NO. It's not a 'glass 1/2 empty/full' case. It's a case of the Christian god saying that if you don't love him you go straight to hell. And THIS from an "all loving" god? Oh Please!
According to Christian mythology, the Christian god created evil, Satan, and hell. He created humans to default to "bad" behavior when he could have just as easily made it the other way around.... everyone *COULD* naturally follow the Christian Laws and a person would have to purposely break those laws in order to go to hell, but NOOOOO..... their god makes human nature in such a way that his creations have to fight for their eternal souls from the moment they are born.
This god seems more like a 5 year old who would pull the wings off of flies than an all-loving, all-forgiving, all-powerful creator of the universe... But feel free to worship THAT if you want.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/26/2008 11:40:19 PM | It's a case of the Christian god saying that if you don't love him you go straight to hell. And THIS from an "all loving" god? Oh Please!
If you don't accept and love God then why would you want to be with Him and why would He want you to ? You can't have it both ways - either you want God in your life or you don't, and if you don't, then why get mad when He doesn't want you either? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 2:18:49 AM | | God wants everyone. I dont think you should ever tell anyone that God does not want them. If I ever told someone that I would so be repenting as fast as I could. If you belive in God even the tinyest amount I dont see him sending the person to hell. But then agian i reember watching a documentary on this very subject and they were telling stories of peple who had near death experiences. on this one program they investigated how many had saw hell and how many saw heaven. well they come to the conclusion that all the ones claiming to be christian saw hell. every one of them that claimed were heavy into church and claimed to be chritian saw hell. and the ones who didndt claim to be christian saw heaven. wonder if thats because they were hypocrits. ya know claiming to be someting they are not. a christian in the church and a hypocrit after leaving church. I dont know but I thought the findings were odd. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 2:35:23 AM | I dont think you should ever tell anyone that God does not want them
I don't think anyone should blaspheme God the way it's been done here. Why haven't you spoke up about that?
It's the individual who chooses to be with God or not - He lets us choose through our words and actions
If one chooses not to let God into their life then it's their choice and not God's
God does want us, yes, but we have to be open to receiving Him | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 2:56:49 AM |
I don't think anyone should blaspheme God the way it's been done here.
Fleur,
I'm sure He's/She's/It's not too concerned about being blasphemed.
I mean, if you were responsible for everything would you be worried about thoughtful opinions from your minions?  | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 4:00:54 AM | Heck, I don't even mind being criticized and insulted, and I'm only partly omnipotent.
Back when the concept of gods first started, they were drawn out as extremely petty beings. Rife with behavioural flaws, and emotional dependencies.
I think as time goes by our concept of a god's personality becomes less and less akin to our own behaviour. Humans would make really lousy gods. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 6:43:00 AM | James/SeattleRain:
How can you comment on The Sacrament of The Eucharist when you are not Roman Catholic but have professed yourself to have come up a Lutheran?
Also, why do you choose to denegrate the religeous practice of Roman Catholics by comparing us to "kids playing vampire".
If you ever were Lutheran, one would expect you to have at least come to know that Roman Catholic's hold The Eucharist to be the actual presence of our deity.
Whether or not you believe in a god, or a goddess or an entire gaggle of gods and goddesses or whether you believe in nothing at all - wouldn't it be better form to refrain from insulting the religous beliefs of people who have chosen to excercise our constitutional and human rights to believe as we choose.
I noticed out of EVERYTHING I wrote, the only think you picked up on is transubstantiation and ignored the rest. No problem... I'm quite used to Christians picking and choosing; it's called "Cafeteria Christianity"
I can't help but notice that your attack on Christianity in general and Catholicism in specific meets with the approval of the people running this board as they do nothing to mediate your slurs and antagonistic posturing.
The reason your statement regarding Roman Catholic Sacrament of Eucharist was brought up appears to be because you were wearing it like a big red flag and it drew to the attention of all the readers that you probably were never Lutheran nor Catholic but just read up enough to try to comment on the topic - and made yourself appear foolish.
Your statements look like episodic flame-baiting to me - but then I am not the mediator of this board/thread so, carry on with your child-like abuses against anyone who will not agree with you. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 7:02:56 AM | seattlerain1 - where you wrote:
NO. It's not a 'glass 1/2 empty/full' case. It's a case of the Christian god saying that if you don't love him you go straight to hell. And THIS from an "all loving" god? Oh Please!
While you make reference to a number of Christian and psuedo-Christian faiths in your educational and religeous past, I would assume you might be aware of the fact that every "sect" (as you put it) of Christianity - (starting with The Holy Roman Catholic Church and devolving to the present day plethora of ecclesiastical bodies) maintain that the Juedo Christian deity does not damn humanity to a Hell, but rather humanities excercise of free will is the determinine factor.
It's as though humanity was hard-wired by the creator with a compass which can be demagnitized by over exposure to things worldly and that when this internal mechanism goes far enough awry, despite what might seem like our best efforts we run onto the rocks quite by error (the definition of sin being error).
James/SeattleRain, these are only questions which are relevent to one who acknowledges the presence of a deity so I must say - I am encouraged by your line of thought because, while hostile and evasive, once we get past all the noise - I can see Jesus working in you.
According to Christian mythology, the Christian god created evil, Satan, and hell.
If you re-read your Lutheran/Catholic Bible you will find that deity created the universe in a state of perfection and the actions of another caused a fall which is presently being reconciled.
He created humans to default to "bad" behavior
The "He" you speak of in acknowledging God gave humanity Free Agency and put Eternity on The Heart of Man.
when he could have just as easily made it the other way around....
I know, when having to work out the issues of my adult life, I too wish that I was a robot set on auto-pilot - but as you will recall reading in Book 1 of your Lutheran/Catholic Bible - deity did not so create humanity but gave us CHOICE to CHANGE.
everyone *COULD* naturally follow the Christian Laws
We do - we are devout Roman Catholics.
and a person would have to purposely break those laws in order to go to hell,
So you DID read The Book.
their god makes human nature in such a way that his creations have to fight for their eternal souls from the moment they are born.
Well, from about the age of 7 if you are Catholic - but it is really easier to keep control than to try to regain it once you have wandered off the reservation.
This god seems more like a 5 year old who would pull the wings off of flies than an all-loving, all-forgiving, all-powerful creator of the universe...
Now now James/SeattleRain - Don't you find referring to our most sacred of personages just a little offensive? Are you flame baiting? Because if you do, you know that Big Brothers gunn gitcha. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 7:40:06 AM | There is no God. There is no Allah. There are no aliens. We are alone. The universe is ours. The only thing we'll ever find are rocks, sand, water, and the odd plant or bug. That's it folks.
I'm amazed that we still, after 50,000 years, pray to imaginary figureheads. Cave men worshiped fire, cool trees, then big stones, statues, and we're still doing it. When will we wake up.
Where is god? Is there anything wrong with checking in once in a while? We don't need a god to tell us it's wrong to hurt people. We know it's not good. At this point in our history, the belief in a God is only hurting humanity.
If there was a god, as we know it now, I certainly wouldn't side with that azzhole. Imagine an all loving god, burning someone forever in hell fire because he created someone who was defective? Let's face it, someone who chops up little kids with an ax is DEFECTIVE. The brain isn't wired properly. If you don't believe, aren't you defective as well? So that means you're gonna burn for it? Fvck him/her then.
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 7:49:24 AM | First that was a poor analogy, there is a difference between not loving someone and doing "evil"
So sending someone to h3ll because they don't love you back is "done out of love?"
Sorry, but that kind of love I can do without. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 5/27/2008 7:53:48 AM | Then why would a god who loves me send me to h3ll if I didn't love him back?
Would you even date someone who loved you so much he would send you to h3ll if you didn't love you back?
if your child did something to go to jail would you still love them? | |
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