|
|
|
|
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 6/10/2008 11:01:47 AM | [the majority of the religious people just don't fit this mold I think]
I think all would agree Christians separate themselves from the pack in believing in the divinity of Jesus.
As such, when Jesus said that you are with me or against me and that God is not mocked, you reap what you sow, Christians take said statements seriously. As such, we are all accountable to God for our beliefs and actions. Not much you can add to that from the Christians perspective. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 6/10/2008 12:41:15 PM | The expression, "Who is not for Me is against Me" (Luke 11:23 and Matthew 12:30) really needs to be understood in context. He makes the statement in the context of the Pharisees claiming that His ability to cast out demons was demonic (see below). It's often misinterpreted to mean that anyone who disagrees with Christians or Christianity, or this church or that church is opposed to Jesus, but that is incorrect. Jesus says, "Whoever is not against us is for us" (Mark 9:40) and "whoever is not against you is for you" (Luke 9:50) . Clearly, Jesus differentiates between those who are against Him and those who are against His followers or His message.
Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Matthew 12:22-32, New International Version | |
|
| |
| Is there a god?
Posted: 6/10/2008 9:55:43 PM |
[the majority of the religious people just don't fit this mold I think]
I think all would agree Christians separate themselves from the pack in believing in the divinity of Jesus.
Since you wrote it in response to me, I don't see how belief in the divinity of Jesus separates one from the pack according to the particular criteria I specified.
The expression, "Who is not for Me is against Me" (Luke 11:23 and Matthew 12:30) really needs to be understood in context. He makes the statement in the context of the Pharisees claiming that His ability to cast out demons was demonic (see below). It's often misinterpreted to mean that anyone who disagrees with Christians or Christianity, or this church or that church is opposed to Jesus, but that is incorrect. Jesus says, "Whoever is not against us is for us" (Mark 9:40) and "whoever is not against you is for you" (Luke 9:50) . Clearly, Jesus differentiates between those who are against Him and those who are against His followers or His message.
Thanks for clarifying it.. I admit that "Who is not for Me is against Me" quote had not been sitting well with me, glad you've explained. It's enough to say that, between the three monotheistic religions (as well as ALL the world religions I can thinnk of? I'll be corrected if I am wrong) Christianity is the only one who condemns its non-adherents to a punishment... which does not strike me as tolerant, but let's agree to disagree... but that quote sounded pretty harsh. Glad not all Christians think that way.
[a disclaimer that if your faith tells you God is one, then it's true for you}
Is your disclaimer saying what I think it is, "If you believe it, it is real for you meaning there is no absolute truth." My experience with skeptics in Jewish circles is that statement is pretty much where they land on this issue.
This calls for a meta-disclaimer: opinions are mine. No, seriously. I am not speaking as a representative of some "Jewish circles", whatever that means... as if two Jews ever had less than three opinions.. let's just say, one would think Jews should BETTER learn to beware of believers in absolute truth. Skeptics I thinnk are much more benign... skeptics won't burn you at stake for your views... won't do something outrageous because their leader says so or because it's good for their race or class... won't readily believe in blood libels... won't be taken over by mob instincts... I'd much rather live in a skeptical society... if you ask me, Jews have not been skeptical enough.
As for Hitler - sure it was no fault of the church, but it certainly would not have hurt if he was excommunicated... In fact, could have prevented him from coming to power. What good is a house of worship where someone like Hitler can obtain a communion and all? Just a thought... Don't want to insult anyone's religious feelings...
| |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 6/11/2008 4:34:20 PM | I think we are really dancing around this issue which is not all that complicated as some want to make it.
First, God is in the judging business, and warns in Scripture that no one is to supplant him in this area. Christians who are judgmental are disobedient.
Second, Christ clearly states in Scripture that he is the way, the truth, and the light and that no one can come to the Father except through him. That is stating a truth and not being judgmental. Even Gandi got this one wrong believing there are many paths to the same God. Christians who adhere to the authority of Scripture have to take the above statement by Jesus at face value. Here in is where they separate themselves from the rest of the pack in choosing to believe in the divinity of Jesus.
Unfortunately the Biblical scholar assumed I was referring to Luke 9:50 when in fact the reference was to Matthew 12:30-32 or Luke 12:23 and why is he identifing these as the same I don't know. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/13/2008 11:15:59 PM | there is a higher power, some force greater than you or i. for me, that's enough. i have had signs of this to assuage my own need for proof, but these are totally personal. to me, different beliefs are the same as different languages. the latter allows our communication with one another. the former allows us to materialize and imagine or put to image, a very complex energy field or many fields in concert with one another in infinite varieties. in addition, there is a yin /yang to all things. order. balance. out of chaos comes order. order disintegrates to chaos. thus, energy.
feel any better? better still, think any better? | |
|
| |
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/14/2008 10:51:41 AM | If you're an adult and you have to ask the question 'is there a God' then chances are it's already too late for the answer to do you much good.
Nevetheless, yes, of course there's a God. How could there not be?
Watch someone try to prove the existence of God, you'll hear lots of really enticing and interesting theories, not proofs mind you, but theories. Things that make you think.
Conversely, whenever you listen to someone attempt to prove that God doesn't exist, they tend to fall flat on their face and their arguments have little or no merit.
But, like I said, you either know God exists, or you don't, and if you have to ask, it's probably already too late. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/15/2008 10:11:07 AM | i see. you want an answer that appeals to your cognition or five senses? i suppose if you've ever been really down and didn't think you would make it--and then, w/o reason or beyond coincidence, you were bailed out--bigtime-- by something that is tangible but very unlikely to have happened OR you "suddenly feel" you have the resources, both internal and external, to go on---you will EXPERIENCE something greater than JUST YOU.
the Higher Power that is an umbrella "concept" over all of these different opinions, is above and beyond "just you". that is why they say that G-d or HP, speaks through people. if s/he were a person, then HP would be "limited". we are limited with souls or energy that is contained by physical structure ( thus the brain and conceptual ablity is limited) and our own five senses (limited). this gets us by in a material world.
if G-d or HP took material form, there would be severe limitation. HP is all of it, beyond it, w/o time. it is the underlying cause of what makes it happen and keeps it all together. if we did not evolve, we would explode. yet, in each explosion or fire or decay or death is a contribution to fertilizing what will come next. if it takes eons, it does not matter. the energy or force finds something else to cleave to. it can be dormant for whatever period.
so, despite how brainy we all may or may not be: it's insufficient to explain HP. the fact that you cannot explain it, explains your limits. thus, HP. HP is the only explanation. why the big bang? you can ask why until you die. it was the first word out of my mouth, according to my poor mother, and it will probably be the last one.
i suppose to keep it simple, you can just respond: why not? | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/15/2008 5:09:09 PM | what came first?
Humans or god?
Hypothesis #1: we exist *because* god exists. We are proof of god's existence
Hypothesis #2: god exists *because* we exist. God is proof of the human's abstract mind.
Occam's razor, if applied, Hypothesis #2 is left standing.
Would god ever have been thought up if humans didn't have a critical, abstract mind? | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/15/2008 7:41:54 PM | Is there a bike shop or can random bits of steel and plastic find each other and move as one under a tree?
Is there a place plastic comes from or does it just happen?
Is there a way DNA can just form into a strand out of a random liquid state?
Christians are not saying that any one who does not belong to our group will go to blazes. The last book states that all will be able to see Jesus and make a choice. All that at their core do not want to be with the creator of all things will go to blazes but it will be their choice as he would every one say sure I'll stay with you. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:26:34 AM | Ah yes... the "intelligent design" argument. Personally, I prefer the watchmaker allegory (if you walk along the beach and find a watch, do you presume it came together in the ocean and then washed ashore, or do you presume there was a watchmaker?)
Of course, in any case, it begs the question: Who designed the designer, which, of course, is always answered with "the designer has ALWAYS existed". [rolling eyes]
So by your argument, a bicycled must have a designer, but the DESIGNER... someone infinitely more complicated than the bike... does not.
And THIS makes sense to you?
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:18:08 PM | And THIS makes sense to you?
It does to me. What doesn't make sense is how anyone can think they can comprehend a designer who created us and everything we see
| |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/18/2008 1:58:51 PM |
If the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness
Fyodor Dostoevsky
While this doesn't demonstrate that God exists, it is a compelling argument in its own right, and begs the question: since these are the ramifications of the devil not being real, are you prepared for the ramifications if God doesn't exist? | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/18/2008 2:35:00 PM |
since these are the ramifications of the devil not being real, are you prepared for the ramifications if God doesn't exist?
Pascal's Wager - this is an appeal to selfish self-interest....not a 'good'/pure reason to thus, believe in god. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/18/2008 3:49:00 PM |
Nevetheless, yes, of course there's a God. How could there not be?
Because the idea is nonsensical.
Watch someone try to prove the existence of God, you'll hear lots of really enticing and interesting theories, not proofs mind you, but theories. Things that make you think.
Conversely, whenever you listen to someone attempt to prove that God doesn't exist, they tend to fall flat on their face and their arguments have little or no merit.
Solely an opinion that's stated as fact. There are no theories that support God, sorry. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/18/2008 5:46:38 PM |
Second, Christ clearly states in Scripture that he is the way, the truth, and the light and that no one can come to the Father except through him. That is stating a truth and not being judgmental Jesus did say this, but in the context of a larger quote in which He explains it. In John 14:1-12 He says:
"Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way where I am going." Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?" Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him."
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Several things that Jesus says here are worth noting. "In my Father's house are many rooms" i.e. There are many paths to God.
Jesus then makes the claim "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him." Please note the second sentence. To omit it makes the first sentence a quote out of context.
He is not claiming to be a way to the Father. He's claiming to Be the Father.
When Philip questions Him, He explicitly makes this claim:
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves.
Even Gandi got this one wrong believing there are many paths to the same God. Christians who adhere to the authority of Scripture have to take the above statement by Jesus at face value. If you read Jesus statement as a whole, He does not claim exclusivity. In fact He explicitly disclaims it. However, He does indeed claim divinity.
I have no objections to Christians believing that Jesus is divine, and that this passage indicates that He said so. I do have problems when this passage is quoted out of context to claim exclusivity. Jesus clearly meant no such thing.
I suggest that sincere Christians reread the passage as a whole and decide for themselves. No one, even Jesus, would appreciate having words picked out of a conversation without showing the whole thing and saying "See. This is what He meant!" | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/18/2008 6:51:57 PM | Because the idea is nonsensical.
The idea that there is no God is nonsensical
| |
|
| |
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/19/2008 12:58:07 AM | The arguments for and against God come in different forms. There are several arguments which are based on purported evidence for God. There are also arguments which claim to prove God exists based on logical deduction alone (such as the ontological argument).
The two main arguments I see derived from experience are the argument from religious experience and the argument from design. The argument from religious experience is often based on some emotional feeling which has a sense of experiencing something that transcends the ordinary. Many religious people might claim they encounter God in prayer or some sacred object, or in meditation, or in experiencing some religious ritual or ceremony, or in some emotional feeling (such as love). These were quite well catalogued by the outstanding American Philosopher and Psychologist William James in his work 'Varieties of Religious Experience', and the insights in there about religious experience haven't changed. For many if not most religious believers, a large amount of confirmation for their beliefs would come from what they regard as experience of a divine or sacred reality rather than reasoned argument.
The argument from design claims that God's existence can be demonstrated from the beauty, harmony, symmetry, goodness and order we see in the natural world. Because we see these qualities in the world, but in a finite way, we can infer they must have their source in the infinite perfections of a divine Being. This divine being made the universe through the exercise of his free will and his desire to share his goodness and beatitude with creatures.
The counter-argument to argument one is that no argument from personal experience can be free from personal delusion or mistake. As Hume once argued, it is more rational to believe that people, even a large number of them, are mistaken in some claim to a miraculous personal experience, than the claim itself is actually true.
The second argument is met with the counter-argument the world has evident evil, suffering and injustice. This is stated very well by an argument attributed to Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
David Hume also questioned that the world's structure can be used to infer it was designed by a single, all powerful supernatural Being. His arguments seem to have been strongly supported in the biological field by Darwin's discovery of evolution.
Evidential arguments for God's existence run into these two problems; how can we know some claimed experience of God is in fact an experience of some metaphysical reality rather than a personal mistake or delusion, and how God (who is supposed to be an infinitely perfect, good and benevolent Being who loves his creatures, especially humans) can be inferred rationally from an imperfect and seemingly unjust world where all creatures, especially humans, suffer terribly from disease, war, injustice, and general misery. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/19/2008 10:26:53 AM | | the wonderous thing about god,is that he loves all,knocks on your door all the time.the only way to understand him is to allow his son into your life.look to those who have,analize their testimony,and see the simularities.the one simularity will be that they know that they are on this planet to serve their brothers and sisters.not themselves. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/19/2008 5:00:55 PM |
look to those who have,analize their testimony,and see the simularities
I have, and the common threads that I see in most Christian lives are trauma, tragedy and excessivism in lifestyle. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:35:29 PM | Ah James you forget the Universe can only come from nothing or something. If it came from nothing then it can follow its own law but if it came from something that something most not be in any way like it. Take flying spagetti monster if he created this universe then another plain of exsistence where pasta has power exsist. He must have made beings who could make wheat grow so that pasta could be formed at a great rate. If you make a painting you made it you are not the object you made it is yours and you have control over it as long as you will. Even tossing paint you chose the color and speed.
My God existed before this universe and will after it is finshed and he makes some thing else. As I lived before I wrote this post and will live after the www is no more. | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/20/2008 9:32:15 AM | I have, and the common threads that I see in most Christian lives are trauma, tragedy and excessivism in lifestyle.
i can understand the trauma and tragedy,most dont except jesus until it is a last resort.explain excessivism? | |
|
| Is there a god?
Posted: 7/23/2008 11:38:10 AM |
explain excessivism
Certainly. I grew up in the deep south with fundamentalism. What I noticed was that most of the really hard core members who made it an ingrained part of their life were excessive in general with other aspects of life. They did NOTHING in moderation. Many of them had 180 degree different lifestyles before they became religious. If they were into drugs, they were hard core addicts, if they were into sex, they were prostitutes and exotic dancers before they "found Christ". After conversion, they were every bit as excessive in religion, even to the point of becoming a pain in the neck to the pastors and other church officials. | |
|
|
| Page 25 of 26
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 |
|
Home
login 
I tried to email you direct, I'm not seeing it in sent mail, you can email me direct now. 
