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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:03:03 AM | Hello Casheyeblond,
I take it you did not look at the video's because we would not be having this discussion if you did. Experience while Carl Rogers tells us is the highest authority, one has to question every experience, especially when it comes to religious and spiritual experiences. I have done this. Remained open to experience in the confines of the spiritual community and then openly questioned them after and tested each phenomenon and found that the same experience exists without god or any spiritual influence. Being openly blasphemous and still being able to experience such things as in Act's 2 etc... etc...
You cannot trust manufactured experiences. In other words experiences others wish you to have to profit some how from your belief.
And your example of Love? What makes it less powerful if it was in our own head and chemicals? Its alright to be delusional as long as you are clear that that is what you are allowing yourself to be.
Believing in god and saying prove it not to be is not proof of or even evidence that it may be true. Just because the argument is used does not make it any less delusional. What about Zeus? Would believing in him be delusional? Just because he has fallen out of favour doesn't make him less of a god then yours.
The idea of god is considered to be acceptable in many forms and this is how each religion keeps the ability to survive and thrive, it hides within a spectrum of delusion. And in fact creates a breeding ground for other delusional people to create their own versions and profit from them. Because it is acceptable for churches to accept money and even have tax exempt status the concept of religion revolving around god cannot be trusted. I can manufacture a state in you and make you believe just as Darren brown can and so can others.
The burden of proof is not on the disbeliever. We have not been led to believe something that isn't true. Just because there is a large number of believers doesn't make it more believable but more people being gullible. There is a lot of evidence that Jesus never even existed at all and paul never even refers to him.... A bit odd for someone who supposedly believes in the same god. If Paul was talking to god i think he might of mentioned his son?
I openly admit that i am open to delusions, some manufactured by others, however I have the good sense to recreate the conditions myself and test the experience for myself to see what is true and what is not. Love is not diminished by the possibility of it being a delusion. It is what makes us human, but to use that knowledge to manipulate others is wrong and that is what religion does, it takes a natural human state and attaches the belief of something to benefit themselves from that state.
If you could stand in a circle with a bunch of friends with a carrot in the centre and come up with some chants etc. to the carrot without laughing you can create the state that many attribute to god... and to quote a buffy the vampire show 'once again with feeling' | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:38:57 AM | Aren't we humans wonderful? Lol!
I see us running around like headless chickens... Why?
Because we cannot know the answer, so we frustrate the hell out of everyone else to find it. All I can say is: Yes... there is something someTHING other than our weak-minded selves going on. But please don't tell me you will find it in any book on this earth. ;) | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:57:07 AM |
I see us running around like headless chickens... :)lol
Because we cannot know the answer, so we frustrate the hell out of everyone else to find it. Presuming to tell others what they cannot know or what they have never found is...uncharacteristic..
All I can say is: Yes... there is something someTHING other than our weak-minded selves going on. But please don't tell me you will find it in any book on this earth. ;)
Let me rephrase:
I found God amoung the pages in that Book. | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 9:10:45 AM | ^^^^ Actually i think we humans are wonderful. And not all of us are running around like chickens with our heads cut off. And we can know the answers if we cut out the manipulations and question our experiences independent of those who tell us what they mean. Just because phenomena is answerable by human means, chemicals and states of mind doesn't make it any less important then if it were from a god or beyond. In fact i believe that when we understand it more fully as a human thing it will be attainable for everyone without the need to subscribe to a belief system. Do i believe in healing? Yes! Do i believe we are all one? Yes. Do these things point to god or some intelligent force beyond us? No. Many of the new belief systems emerging including 'the secret' reveal that the answers are within us in fact the bible also taught this but we still look for a god...
What holds us back from our potential? Giving our power away to the unknown. creating a god and making him responsible for all the good and the devil the bad. Not being held accountable and responsible for what we create in the here and now. We need not look any further then ourselves for answers that concern ourselves. If we want answers that concern mankind we need not look any further then mankind for the answers.
We are wonderful, creative beings that have let our creation get out of hand and given it a life of its own we worship to death... | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:01:27 AM | | oh sure dont answer my previous post,see if i care.lol.god bless all. | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:11:52 AM | ^^
Forgive our rudess, yes?
i am just starting my journey in the spiritual realm of "god".i do believe though that you are not supposed to question what he?she or otherwise is.i do believe as i have gathered that when god made us in his image,the spirit did so as all of us.the people of the earth.when people wonder why god created famine and such,they do not understand that we are all part of god,and what we do shapes our world.i could be wrong though.
Just gettin' started huh? It gets bumpy, I know, but you will not be disappointed, doll, honest. ;)I really didn't catch any questions in that post, doll, but did want to share with you that actually, you do not need to think that we are not supposed to question God. Apart from accusations, you should feel free to ask Him anything. He never told us to ditch our intellect, and He will answer. (Just be sure you want them, bro! ) | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 11:19:41 AM | I cannot see much harm in people holding a false belief in a freindly sky wizard if it makes them happy and helps them to live their lives, as seems to be the case among many respondents. To attack or denigrate their faith seems as mean as telling a four year old that there's no Santa.
The god delusion is perfectly acceptable as a harmless personal superstition and should only be of major concern to us when it damages and devalues human life and the progress of genuinely researched, sweated over, hard won scientific knowledge.
As previously noted, I do believe that religion damages us in placing the desires and selfish interests of the male first. The main modern religions were devised when ideas of gender equality didn't exist. For this reason we have a male pope who gets to wear an important looking pointy hat and pontificate to the worlds population, both male and female on how every sperm is sacred and it is the wrong to wear a condom. In these days of AIDS infection transmitted by unprotected sex, this kind of primitive, backward thinking should not be allowed to influence peoples minds. it is a genuine force of evil in the world and must be responsible for the deaths of thousands. Although I don't personally approve of sorting out world problems by excessive violence, it appears that any kind of covert operation that discreetly took the pope and his pointy hatted colleagues out of the picture would be doing us all a great service. Better still, replace him with an enlightened female pontiff in a swift, clinical Vatican coup. The benefits to humanity would outweigh the small, transitory unpleasantness.
When religion tackles scientific specifics, such as the age of the Earth, then it is plainly out of it's depth. Christian fundamentalists are more to be pitied than reviled with their ridiculous 6000 year old Earth age doctrine, that places humans as contemporaneous with the dinosaurs. However, it is hard to pity them, bearing in mind that these guys actually had a candidate up for election as American President. Whatsisname, Mike Buzzybee or something?
I've looked on some of their websites and seen how they use the odd biblical reference to make their beliefs look attractive, such as Leviathan, ancient dragon myths, etcetera. By their warped reasoning, a major threat to the crucified Jesus on his cross might have been mutilation by a passing T. Rex. How sick does that sound?
Might make a good film scene though in "Jurassic Park 4, The Biblical Years". | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 1:49:19 PM | | Presumably you know what my characteristics are then DA. But this is the point... do we even know ourselves? And yes... you can find Gods everywhere, or even "God" if you look hard enough. The thing is not everyone travels the same road in order to claim "God" being there and this is the headless chicken to which I'm referring. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 2:38:53 PM | Good question.... (the feel/think.understand one from apologist)
I know how i'd feel because i'm not dead (yet..... fortunately)
What i'm trying to get across is... people have different beliefs as to what happens after we die. I personally think we decompose, and turn into worm food..... and that's it. People believe that they live on, but as a spirit/soul whatever....... THAT's what I'm questioning.
I'm basing the 'yippee' feeling to the million bucks and the 'ow mutha f****r' on experiences... e.g. someone buying me a coffee/beer and not asking for anything in return... or hitting my head on a cupboard in the kitchen.
SO... (as you rightly put) i'm saying I'm pretty sure how i'd feel either way.
BUT... when it comes to being dead.... who can say?
IF it lives on, is our 'spirit' going to have the same feelings? is it going to feel anything? will it feel bitterness or just love?
Who knows? Nobody. And that's because people who think they know are alive and just speculating. (People who have had near death experiences .... don't actually die so they can't say)
THEREFORE... how can anyone say that after we die.. we won't be able to understand the vastness of creation????
Phew... (that's why i have to condense the masses I have to say so it's misinterpreted sometimes)
Question 2 (i'll try to keep it short)
When I say 'give up learning' I'm saying -Why should we stop and just accept 'god made the earth' end of story.
How come theists so often fight against science... e.g. evolution vs intelligent design? Big Bang vs god put us here 6000 years ago and fossils are just a way of god to test our faith.
Why can't all these theists be on the same side.. to search for truth?
I believe in JC, as a man.... a great speaker and an amazing man.... but son of a god? no... sorry.
And as for divide... I'm glad he's managed to bring US together......  it's people like .... for example.. catholics and protestants ..... (look in northern ireland) sunni and shiite muslims... all these people killing each other in the name of what?? THAT's the divide I'm talking about. 
Trust me... it saddens me that people are reduced to killing each other
Hope than answers your queries.
Don't suppose you have a million bucks to spare do you?  | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 4:06:46 PM | post/msg 51 begins with the words 'hello casheyesblond'...that's me...so indeed
my post is a direct response to the words within the post of post/msg 51
crazylilting,
I have read your response in it's entirety that has been addressed to me and so, I must ask,when labeling others by attaching and applying the word,delusion, were you completely unable to understand and grasp what is meant by a false, persistent belief maintained in spite of evidence to the contrary.....in others,are you unable to understand and grasp I believe to be what many mental health professionals and the many psychology professors,(and because of my line of study,these ones that I would consider my educational peers)used as a means of necessity to keep their objectivity and
I ask you this this because I have been following your posting history from in these forums for quite a while and as I include your posts over here,I am of the conclusion and opinion that your posts are not presented as opinion and /or belief but instead your words within your posts are presented in a form of exclusivity of truth yet I never see you back your 'words of certainty' up with any available evidence.
I guess that's no big deal to some but with respect for this being an open forum that consist of many religious differences,I do try to extend the courtesy of presenting my posts as belief and/or opinion when there is noavailable evidence I can bring to the page.
Notwithstanding your consistent inability to provide any available evidence to give at least some reflection or weight of authority possibly needed to support the words in your post/msg 51 that appears to be addressed to me, I will attempt to possibly uncover what method of rationalization you have used to arrive at these conclusions you have presented,and imo that you have presented with such 'certainty;'
First things first.....as someone that also embraces science with the understanding of what is needed to meet the criteria and criticism of what is referred to as sound science, so should someone try present a proposition that does not meet this criteria and it can not be verified by quantitative analysis....then I know that proposition can not be proven scientifically....in other words,should one even say something like,"the origins of the universe proves that G-d does not exist" then this one is saying something that can not be scientifically proven.....so imo, scientific rationality can be ruled out as the method used to arrive at such certainty that seems to present itself within the words presented in post/msg 51.
So now let's begin;
post/msg 51 crazy lilting wrote;
I take it you did not look at the video's because we would not be having this discussion if you did.
I have looked at the video's and possibly my understanding and knowledge of the concepts of things like blind obedience combined with that of authoritative figures/experiences extends way beyond what may be offered through youtube videos. And from a sociological perspective that includes research and studies such as the Milgram Experiment and Stanford Prison Experiment,; these tools imo,that help me identify possible inherent biases and assumptions that others make about others and I believe that is why we must have this discussion.
You cannot trust manufactured experiences.In other words experiences others wish you to have to profit some how from your belief.
First off,my life experiences or where I believe that I get my inspiration/"air" does not depend on,does not seek or need your approval or seal of validation to be believed and accepted as true and valid for me ,but thank you for your concern.
Its alright to be delusional as long as you are clear that that is what you are allowing yourself to be.
Somebody help me out here. Imo,this sentence is contradiction within itself. If someone is clear and/or of clear state of mind that allows them to be able to weigh in on all that is needed for them to be be able to do this assessment in order for them to be able to determine that they are actually only allowing] themselves to be this or that? Imo, being able to do such an assessment for one to be able to arrive at this self awareness is not someone that I would consider in a state of delusion. Or is it possible that you have the kind of valued judgment that does not need any available evidence that others possible need that allows one to consider others delusional?
Believing in god and saying prove it not to be is not proof of or even evidence that it may be true. Just because the argument is used does not make it any less delusional. What about Zeus? Would believing in him be delusional? Just because he has fallen out of favour doesn't make him less of a god then yours.
to quote rockondon again,
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Believing that God does not exist because there is no evidence of his existence holds no more merit than saying He does exist because there is no evidence that he does not exist.
I believe I can fully grasp and understand this. What about you????
The idea of god is considered to be acceptable in many forms and this is how each religion keeps the ability to survive and thrive, it hides within a spectrum of delusion. And in fact creates a breeding ground for other delusional people to create their own versions and profit from them. Because it is acceptable for churches to accept money and even have tax exempt status the concept of religion revolving around god cannot be trusted. I can manufacture a state in you and make you believe just as Darren brown can and so can others.
again,words imo,presented like you have the exclusive truth but never bringing forth available evidence....I believe that it's only just your opinions and judgments
The burden of proof is not on the disbeliever
Well now that depends on who is the one making a claim. Why do you think I choose to use words,like belief and opinion,or I believe and so on.....I believe that you have made more claims than I can count where the burden of proof falls on you to provide but instead, imo all we keep getting is your personal judgment of what is true or false.
I openly admit that i am open to delusions, some manufactured by others, however I have the good sense to recreate the conditions myself and test the experience for myself to see what is true and what is not.
Maybe I should value your experiences and judgments as superior to mine? oops,sorry I just can't bring myself to do that and stay objective.Ya know what mean...that thing many may possibly refer to as objective truth ...in others,I believe it to be something that can stand independent and does not depend on your personal judgment of what is true or false. Objectivity,I think you may have heard of this term before.
and that is what religion does, it takes a natural human state and attaches the belief of something to benefit themselves from that state.
so many claims,so many facts,and so little to support all this other than imo, your judgment of what is true and false.
If you could stand in a circle with a bunch of friends with a carrot in the centre and come up with some chants etc. to the carrot without laughing you can create the state that many attribute to god... and to quote a buffy the vampire show 'once again with feeling'
A chant with a lot of feeling and a carrot ans so on....let me think on this one...hhmmmm...Or you could chant something for us all and hey you can even use something that I came up with as your chant....something like,abstractly speaking of course for example,Painted with many textures ...caressed with a pulse from a distant drum..flowing like a human faucet
many rivers of thoughts...images...turbulence of emotions exploding..flooding the page.....No desire to compose to conformity when the trembling ink begs to ride the unmarked rapids,piercing the veil that takes one beyond the mainstream currants....Then
and only then...anxiety....exhaust to a calming passage of it's own...Then...only then
do I sit awhile....wrapping the fragments of motion around me....as I await for the words to be revealed ....Nah,now that I think about it,I don't think that will work for your manufactured experiences because I personally believe that where I got my inspiration/'air' on that abstract is something that I also believe to be something that can not be fabricated.
And in conclusion,in response to post/msg 51;
Imo,you present your post as if you have the exclusive truth and I believe that while doing so,each time you fail to provide any available evidence. Imo,all that you have provided is your conception of reality through personal valued judgments of what is true and false based on,and also imo,your personal moral experiences and other life experiences including any private troubles and issues within those experiences. And just so you know;
I do not believe that through this valued judgments of yours that you hold the one and only true description of reality and/or what should be deemed as true or false.And I do believe what one may possibly consider "objectivity of truth" is something that is independent your personal valued judgments of what is reality and/or that which is true and false. And to further those thoughts,you can continue to label me and others delusional imo,just because of our religious/spiritual beliefs, but without the evidence needed to support this claim,then imo,you can not even make this label stick.In other words,I will not and do not claim ignorance or a state of delusion just to accommodate your personal judgment of what is true and false/ | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:49:06 PM |
The evidence I see is that everything decays and goes from a greater to a lesser complexity. I am decaying, my car is decaying, in fact the whole of creation is decaying. This tells me that there will be an end and that therefore it only logically follows that there was a beginning.
Before there was a car there were car parts. Before there were car parts there were natural resources. These natural resources were less complex then the car so complexity can surely increase in the universe. Increasing complexity does not require intelligence. A snowflake is much more complicated than the water it came from and all you need is a low enough temperature.
If no god is needed to create something as complex as the universe then why does it require creative intelligence to build a house, a car, a computer etc, etc. These things are much less complex and yet they required human creativity to bring them into existence. Logic and evidence tells me that there had to be a creative force to bring the universe into existence also.
These things all require intelligence to bring them into existence because they lack one thing that living systems have: Reproduction with modification. But putting that aside, if the universe always existed it would have no need for a creator.
His answer is that as the "I AM" He ALWAYS WAS, IS and ALWAYS will BE.
If the universe could talk it would say the same thing. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:51:49 PM |
No doctor or scientist can ever recreate the living beings that God created.
Which leads us back to my unanswered question. Who created this complex god? Surely something as complex as god must have had a creator. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 7:57:18 PM | Which leads us back to my unanswered question. Who created this complex god? Surely something as complex as god must have had a creator
any answer to this is a paradox.the answer to that question is the same as the answer to the sound of one hand clapping. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:02:51 PM | casheyesblonde
to quote rockondon again,
woot woot! I must say it feels warm and fuzzy to see my words immortalized in your posts, even though I don't remember writing them. Must have written it months ago. I like seeing them used against my fellow atheists too if it defeats illogical arguments. Thanks for keeping us on our toes!
Personally, I would rather not argue about the existence of any god. If evidence was guns I'd be waging that battle completely unarmed. However, I would be willing to argue against certain claims that are associated with a god, such as the belief that the world is only about 6000 years old. If evidence and scripture is in disagreement, I accept evidence over scripture any day.
INDYDUDE
When I wanted a new car I just dropped a bomb on a junk yard and when they smoke cleared away I had a brand new Rolls Royce.
Sounds a lot like how God created man. One spectacular event and 'poof' there he is.
Sounds nothing like evolution though. If evolution was the junkyard, there would be millions of tornados (mutations) and numerous collections of parts which grow not by chance, but in accord to the fixed law of natural selection. Between each tornado we would see useful assemblies of parts preserved, not destroyed, and a pattern of increasingly complex constructions that eventually result in not necessarily a rolls royce, but perhaps a plane, a boat, a truck, or some other construction well adapted to its environment.
E.Kyro
It is comforting to finally realize that life originated from nothing, means nothing and rushes to nothing. All the toil and tribulation has no more meaning then yesterdays garbage. No hope, forget the dreams. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
Sorry to hear that your life is meaningless. If only you had a child to love and to love you back, people to care for and cared for you, dreams to pursue, goals in life, or any of the numerous other things which give life meaning. If things like that don't give your life meaning, what is belief in a book going to do?
Lol, no wonder an estimated 50% of americans are on anti-depressants. Pass the prozac please. 
The irony. If I believed as you did I'd probably have the barrell in my mouth and my toe on the trigger. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:03:48 PM |
Um...ever heard of the "Big Bang Theory"? No?
I happen to believe that the BBT has outlived it's usefulness. It was a decent attempt 50 years ago, but now it's lost its predictive ability. Every new observation is a new problem that is solved with ad hoc assumptions. When those ad hoc assumptions fail to be useful we add more ad hoc assumptions. It's far past time for cosmologists to step up to the plate and come up with a theory that actually agrees with observation.
Traditions that posit the existence of a creator god generally agree that God created all things. God is conceived of not as a thing, but as the condition of the existence of all things. (I can't believe how many people ask this question, and think that they're being clever by doing so. Take a philosophy course, seriously.)
A condition is still a thing. 
But even ignoring that, this sustainer god is still unnecessary and insufficient. Positing a god explains nothing and raises unanswerable questions. The uncreated god is a good example of the special pleading fallacy. Take a logic course, seriously  | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:08:40 PM |
In the Catholic tradition this has been asserted, if not in quite this language, since Augustine. I can't think of a single religion that asserts that God is a "thing."
So does that mean that we can all agree that god is nothing? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:16:55 PM |
any answer to this is a paradox.the answer to that question is the same as the answer to the sound of one hand clapping.
I learned how to clap with one hand from watching the Simpsons. Hit your fingers against the bottom of the palm and it will make a clapping sound. | |
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| Is there a God?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:27:17 PM |
Of the psychology courses I have completed which would include Personality of the Self, general psychology,developmental psychology,and abnormal psychology,and of these,the most consistently and commonly used definition for the word,delusion;
-a false, persistent belief maintained in spite of evidence to the contrary and I believe that the difference can be found in these four words I have put in bold.
Christians love to retreat to the "My god is neither provable nor disprovable" position though it's not explained why they don't believe in infinitely many other unprovable things. But before you take that position we should check to see if the Christian god makes any testable predictions. I believe it makes many testable predictions. Let's consider the physical incarnation of god, Jesus. Almost all Christians believe that Jesus is god and that he existed on Earth as a real physical human being. They believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and yet we know that humans don't reproduce by parthenogenesis. They believe that Jesus lived in Nazareth in the early 1st century. However, we know that in the early first century that Nazareth was an uninhabited necropolis. The Bible is inconsistent about when Jesus was born. According to Matthew it was about 4 BC. According to Luke it was about 6 AD. Since we know people are born once, this is evidence against the existence of Jesus. According to the Gospel of Luke Jesus was a descendant of Adam, yet the evidence of biology, geology, archeology, and physics tells us that the universe and first man did not come into existence a few thousand years ago.
There is a great deal of evidence against the existence of the Christian god. That makes Christians delusional. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 8:46:44 PM | rockondon
woot woot! I must say it feels warm and fuzzy to see my words immortalized in your posts, even though I don't remember writing them. Must have written it months ago. I like seeing them used against my fellow atheists too if it defeats illogical arguments. Thanks for keeping us on our toes!
You wrote this in a thread that was titled God and mental illness in which was the same thread that I was also trying to explain to this other cat that I don't write with crayons and my doc don't come by each day at 2 And please know,that for me,I like to embrace others on their individual merits and virtue. And someone does not have to share,adopt or foster my spiritual beliefs for me to be able to share and recognize things like intimacy of the minds,the integrity and passion behind one's words and one's ability to be critically trained to respond as only a critical thinker would...in other words,I have found a lot of your posts to be what I would consider to be off the hook and chain for these very reasons 
edit/hey CountIbli,I only read the last sentence in your last post which I couldn't seem to get past that to even read the rest of your posts,so I feel no need to respond back to you but fret not I say,for in philosophy,when something is referred to as nonsense,one may choose not to say anything at all./off to bed and wish everyone a good night. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 9:14:21 PM | casheyesblond
I have found a lot of your posts to be what I would consider to be off the hook and chain
your posts are off the hook as well. I always enjoy them, and considering that we are often on opposing sides of a discussion, that says a lot about what an erudite and charming poster you are.
countIbli
There is a great deal of evidence against the existence of the Christian god.
really, like what? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:08:31 PM | countIbli:
There is a great deal of evidence against the existence of the Christian god.
rockondon:
really, like what?
countIbli's understanding of the term "evidence" is rather...idiosyncratic (to put it politely). So I wouldn't hold my breath if you're waiting for a compelling answer. | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:33:38 PM |
countIbli
There is a great deal of evidence against the existence of the Christian god.
really, like what?
Did you even bother to read the paragraph above that sentence?
Did you even bother to read the paragraph above that sentence? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:36:34 PM |
edit/hey CountIbli,I only read the last sentence in your last post which I couldn't seem to get past that to even read the rest of your posts
Had you bothered to read what I wrote you might understand why I wrote what I wrote. But I guess as long as you disagree with my conclusion you won't bother to listen to what I have to say. I'm not sure how this is different from plugging your fingers into your ears, closing your eyes, and saying "la la la." | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:40:19 PM |
countIbli's understanding of the term "evidence" is rather...idiosyncratic (to put it politely). So I wouldn't hold my breath if you're waiting for a compelling answer.
In science a theory is supported by evidence when the predictions of the theory agree with observations. On the flip side, when the predictions of the theory disagree with observations those observations are evidence against the theory. The Jesus theory makes several predictions that are contradicted by observations. This is pretty standard in science. Standard in courts of law too. I don't know what you consider evidence. Maybe the only thing you accept is philosophical sophistry? | |
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| Is there a god?
Posted: 3/9/2008 10:41:05 PM |
Posted by themadfiddler
Until the creator writes his will upon the surface of the moon in 50 mile high platinum letters that we can all read by means of a simple telescope, I am afraid it's all up for grabs and science is going to provide the best answers available...and thanks to them for their fine work.
He did better then that, He wrote His will into the constellations. No telescope required.
Posted by CountIbli
These natural resources were less complex then the car so complexity can surely increase in the universe.
When they are acted upon by an Intelligent Designer. My point.
These things all require intelligence to bring them into existence because they lack one thing that living systems have: Reproduction with modification.
Just as the first living system required an intelligent designer to bring it into existence. Back to square one.
But putting that aside, if the universe always existed it would have no need for a creator.
So what do you think the scientific theory will be in 50 years from now? Seems to me that every time they come up with a new theory to explain all the evidence they come a step closer to the fact that an eternal Intelligent designer had to be involved.
Posted by rockondon
Sorry to hear that your life is meaningless. If only you had a child to love and to love you back, people to care for and cared for you, dreams to pursue, goals in life, or any of the numerous other things which give life meaning. If things like that don't give your life meaning, what is belief in a book going to do?
Thanks for your concern. Yes only if, but unfortunately not all can have children nor do all have people who care for them or the ability to have or follow their dreams, goals or any of the things that make life worthwhile for you. Some have had all those things and through no fault of their own, lost them. Consider that in a large part of the world for thousands of years all the things that make life for you worthwhile were not available to large segments of the population.
The irony. If I believed as you did I'd probably have the barrell in my mouth and my toe on the trigger.
Thanks for confirming my point. Faith that there is a higher purpose and meaning to life through God is the very thing that keeps many going without going postal, whereas those without that faith require externals to give them purpose and meaning. The externals however can disappear in a moment leaving those who depended on them without hope. | |
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