| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/12/2008 11:28:38 AM |
I am pro-life. I feel that it is totally wrong for an abortion to be performed, regardless of how many weeks along it is, etc. HOWEVER, having said that, I also do not for a second feel that the GOVERNMENT has one single right or justified place in making rulings on this either!!!!! Hence, while fundamentally I'm against the concept in practice, politically I end up on the 'right to choose' side of the fence. It's one of those issues where I feel the goverment has no right to dictate behavior, but however, I even realize that this stance leaves people open to making mistakes, or rather responsible for their own triumphs too.
I'm pretty much in line with this myself.
Exchanging a human life in return for the eco/social advantages of being childless doesn't seem like a right thing to me; but you can't keep a person from getting an abortion any more than you could keep them from picking their nose; so it's pretty much up to the individual. Even if you could enforce laws against it, you'd wind up with another 3 million people in jail as a result (and their doctors too!), so it's practically impossible.
Ditto prostitution.
Why do we have cops busting hookers, johns and weed dopers when we can't apprehend murderers, identity thieves and God knows what else?
It's a waste of resources. | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 3:57:47 AM | I'm also with O4 on this.
What's the main difference between caffeine and cocaine? Caffeine is legal. If other "addictive" drugs were legalized, taxed, and properly labeled, most people could regulate their own intake. Hospital patients on morphine are now routinely given control over their own dosage, and only a very few abuse it. It is only a very few who don't want to lose the morphine as soon as the pain goes away.
Some of the money from the taxes could go to rehab programs for abusers. In a legalized environment where sex work isn't stigmatized as "immoral," it will be far easier for workers to save up for a career change because there won't be a stigma forcing them underground and into "the life."
I know that there is a big charge on prostitution for women. Few things are worse than calling a woman a "whore." But what's hard about that isn't so much the sex, it's the sense of betrayal that attaches. Males hate "whores" because of the fear that their sexuality will be used against them--the only arena where males are allowed to be vulnerable.
The stigma of "immorality" reminds me of purdah--the Arabic custom of making females go around with bags over their heads so that males won't be tempted. I can think of few things more degrading to both genders than that.
If someone feels that providing sexual gratification to another person in exchange for a gratuity is degrading, sex work would not be a good line to go into. If someone is desperate and we all agree to drop the stigma so long as the person plays safely, getting out of an economic jam would seem like a respectable-enough reason for those who do go into it. No one looks down on coal miners as immoral even though they rent their bodies out in very nasty circustances.
Since there is some risk involved, it needs to be licensed and regulated, and I'd rather have someone do that whose boss I can vote out of office if need be.
Barbe, I can totally relate to the "ick" factor. It is a very nasty business. However, if that's the only basis for suppressing it, I just don't think it's enough. Have you any idea what goes into the process of making leather for those divine shoes you swoon over? | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 5:52:40 AM | I was not up to speed on the Spitzer case when I last posted. It raised a profound question in my mind. Why is prostitution illegal and adultery not?
Why have the Bible thumping, Pro-Life, Anti- Gay Marrage, crowd not introduced one law against adultery?
I will have to ask Jim Baker ... oh, I forgot ... Jessie Jackson ... oops!
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 11:02:01 AM | OP
I think there are several perspectives to take here.
From an ethical and moral standpoint, I think prostitution is wrong. I also think adultery is wrong. I think there should be a higher standard people live by that is above law which is morals and ethics and living in a positive manner. Neither of these activities fall under this. It used to be that when you undertook unethical or immoral activities, you didn't fear the law, you feared being austrisized by your peers and your community. This means you couldn't get a job, couldn't buy a house, etc as punishment for your violation of this code. Unfortunately those times are gone. That is where the main gap in society is, the gap between morals and ethics and the law.
From a legal and logic perspective, I would not object to it being legalized. It would allow more controls over health (mental, emotional and physical), put systems in place to maintain a level of safety and bring some of the draw of it being "illegal and therefore sexy to do to see if they don't get caught" out of the equation.
The problem still remains the gap between law and ethics and morality is still there. The reason people want the law to mind this gap is because there isn't a punishment for violating ethics and morality anymore. This applies to both prostitution and adultery.
I for one would love to see systems in place that would make public all folks found to be adulterers and who have engaged in prostitution for all to see. If a husband cheats on his wife with the secretary or a prostitute, he gets put out there for all to see. If a wife does the same, she gets put out there for all to see. If a woman sleeps with a married man knowingly she gets put up there too. Kind of like a wall of shame. But this would only work if people agreed these things were bad. There are some people out there who might make these bad people hero's and there goes the point so this is not without flaws.
The point is that these things are wrong and these people should be held accountable. That is the problem with society today, no one is ever held accountable for their actions anymore. | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 12:17:54 PM | cncgandolf....
Prostitution is already legal in Nevada. Is it working there?
YES...
...according to the T.V. documentary "Cathouse"(2002 ),(or #2, the next year) HBO went into the legal brothel that is the Moonlight Bunny Ranch in Nevada and Showtime took a closer look at prostitution in "Penn & Teller: Bull$hit!" (2003-?), the reasons why it is illegal in most places are invalid arguments.
In the places where it is illegal in the U.S., it is physically dangerous to be a sex worker, health care is poor, and she/he can end up very easily dead and broke at an early age.
In the brothels where it is legal, the worker is protected, weekly health screenings are mandatory, they thrive, and make a ton of money.
I found it interesting to note that the sheer incidence of STI's were so much lower in these legal brothels than in the general population of sex workers because of those mandatory health screenings.
And, if I recall correctly, incidence of STI's were actually lower in those legal brothels than in the general population as a whole, but don't quote me on that one...
When is the last time you had an intimate encounter with anyone and asked to see their clean bill of health paperwork? 
Now, I would never date someone who frequents prostitutes, but I wouldn't accept my S.O. going out on dates with other women or men, either.  | |
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Posted: 3/13/2008 12:40:10 PM | -roses $24
-dinner -$75
-movie -$20
-snacks while at the movie $15
-late night dancing and drinks $45
-gas for a midnite drive $20
ummm -aren't were already paying for it -  | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 12:48:51 PM | That's right, Luck.
You are all suckers...
And, don't forget to leave a BIG tip! 
....Bend over and take it like a man!
The world makes prostitutes of us all, one way or another.
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 1:00:54 PM | ^^Isn't that the truth?
Heck, I've always believed that since temporary and employment agencies are legal, so should prostitution.
" -gas for a midnite drive $20"
That's all?? It cost me $36.00 the other night to fill up my modest Corolla. Is your ride a moped or motorized skate board per chance? | |
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Posted: 3/13/2008 1:24:55 PM | i was only talking about the drive - not filling the tank -what? do you think i was going to drive her to albuquerque?
its only a fifteen gallon tank and i never let it go below half, (in case the world ends -i'll be running out of town at about 110 mph, at least i will die with gas in my car) -of course next year it probibly will cost me much more to bring the needle up from the halfway point (no pun intended)
-forgot one: photo radar ticket: (trying to impress her) $219 (insurance hike $300) | |
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Posted: 3/13/2008 1:28:32 PM | i recently spent 2-1/2 years working in southeast asia. i used sex workers when needed and found it to be a most natural experience because all of the games
i find must be played to start and maintain a relationship here cease to exist.
the governor wasnt caught because of prostitution, he was caught because he wanted to be. everyday there are powerful men using these services without detection or worry. spitzer, senators larry craig and vitter were all acting out the need to be punished.
punishment is one the foundations of our american way of life and is the cause of serial crime. the criminal high or low wants to be caught and punished. | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:02:16 PM | ... but then in other countries, there is a much larger amount of legalized prostitution Americans would find undesirable... like very young children, white slaves, etc, etc... things that would probably not happen in the US if it was legal because there are huge criminal penalties for those types of behavior.
I still think it should be legalized, but I think it should be heavily supervised and taxed to pay for itself. | |
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Posted: 3/13/2008 6:17:42 PM | What got Governor Spitzer caught wasn't the prostitution in and of itself, it was an investigation into the Governors financial dealings. A NYC bank noticed suspicious activity on a number of accounts and notified the IRS. The accounts were in the names of different corporations. After doing some digging, the IRS found that they were dummy corporations and were controlled by Spitzer. So they launched a full fledged investigation which included wire taps, and snared him with the call girl business.
Being with a prostitute is minor compared to what they have on him...a crime called structuring. It is similar to money laundering, but different in that it is when someone uses different bank accounts and transfers money back and forth to hide the true intentions of what that money is being used for, and where it came from.
The poetic justice in all this is that Spitzer used that very same law to go after Wall St. brokers and prostitution rings and prosecute them when he was Attorney General of NY.
Now to the hooker...
She is cashing in on her new found fame. Penthouse magazine has offered her a photo shoot reported to be "worth her while". She is an aspiring singer and has just released 2 songs to a download site that is charging 98 cents a download. Today alone it was downloaded more than any other artist.
Her real name is Ashley Alexandra Dupre and yesterday her MySpace page recieved 4 million hits and had to be taken down. However, it is back up again today and one of the singles from her CD is playing on it...
http://www.myspace.com/ninavenetta
OH ! Incidentaly...one of the other "clients" of this prostitution ring ??
A member of the British Royal Family....The Duke of Westminster !! | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:44:45 PM | | ^^^Oh, there's probably more names involved. Somebody must have referred Spitzer to the service. I doubt he just googled and discovered it on his own. | |
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Posted: 3/13/2008 10:14:59 PM | It used to be that when you undertook unethical or immoral activities, you didn't fear the law, you feared being austrisized by your peers and your community. This means you couldn't get a job, couldn't buy a house, etc as punishment for your violation of this code. Unfortunately those times are gone.
I would say as a gay man who has never caused harm to another and yet has felt the punishment from society for violating those codes of ethics, fortunately those times are gone. A person who can't get a job still needs to eat and have shelter and this would only push him into illegal activities. And in a multicultural society whose ethics and whose morality? Shall we stone to death a woman for being unveiled? Should we whip actresses and actors for kissing each other during the Academy Awards? Would you be willing to suffer the consequence of violating my code of ethics, would this be fair? Regarding the past not only was the violator of the social standards of society punished, but so was his or her family. The strict code against unwed motherhood meant girls would secretly and illegally abort their unborn babies which sometimes would lead to their deaths. It meant innocent kids got labeled as "bas/tards", and were unfairly looked down upon. Whites were ostracized and punished for being with someone outside their race. A white woman with a black man was considered a whore.
If a husband cheats on his wife with the secretary or a prostitute, he gets put out there for all to see. If a wife does the same, she gets put out there for all to see. If a woman sleeps with a married man knowingly she gets put up there too. Kind of like a wall of shame.
It's not your place to put others to shame for activities which don't affect you. Let each family take care of the dirt in their own houses. I notice your wall of shame are all related to sex. How about corporations which cheat or underpay their employees? Abusive bosses? What about greedy HMO's? And regarding prostitution, many of those go into it as kids because they were kicked out of their homes by abusive parents or running away from homes with abusive parents, maybe a father who molested them. Shall we punish them for doing what they needed to do to survive?
There are some people out there who might make these bad people hero's and there goes the point so this is not without flaws.
In a world where neither you nor I are God, the whole thing is flawed.
The point is that these things are wrong and these people should be held accountable. That is the problem with society today, no one is ever held accountable for their actions anymore.
Really? Is that why Spitzer resigned and gave up his very prestigious title?
The poetic justice in all this is that Spitzer used that very same law to go after Wall St. brokers and prostitution rings and prosecute them when he was Attorney General of NY.
It's like several hundreds of years ago the first person to be executed in England under the anti-homosexuality law was the person who created the law.
Now to the hooker...
She is cashing in on her new found fame. Penthouse magazine has offered her a photo shoot reported to be "worth her while". She is an aspiring singer and has just released 2 songs to a download site that is charging 98 cents a download. Today alone it was downloaded more than any other artist.
Good for her. Like it or not she is going to be hounded by the media who are going to make money off of the scandal; selling photos of her, writing about the scandal in the rag mags etc. So she might as well make the best of it. | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/14/2008 1:40:55 AM | Bob,
That was so right on!
I'm going to make a catty remark because I can just hear our fellow poster muttering "Liberal" under his breath and refusing to learn a thing.
When thinking things through becomes a vice to be derided, you have to wonder. Are the conservatives who can't bear to listen to anyone who doesn't already agree with them the cons or the conned? | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/14/2008 4:57:55 AM | do I even dare to mention all the "scandalous liaisons" that have come to light that involved church leaders..........??? 
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Posted: 3/14/2008 10:42:35 AM | Bob
You make good points.
My point behind my post is that there needs to be consequences for actions. Yes, Spitzer has lost his job and his career. I think he should. He made a mistake and he should be punished for it. But how many times have other john's been released while the prostitutes get thrown in jail and harassed?
My post was circled around sex because that was the topic of the thread. You bring up good points of things that should be protected in such things to protect workers and customers in HMO's. A lot of things are out of control due to the social and political environments right now.
I know a "wall of shame" thought is not ideal nor is it realistic in our society but there needs to be something that people are held accountable to. Families are doing it less and less, the law is doing it less and less and as a result the sense of community, personal responsibility and sense of accountability is going away.
I bet Spitzer and the many other people in power who are doing the exact same thing all thought they could get away with it and there is really no accountability for them so why not. I don't think he or any of the other folks doing these things are thinking of the effects their actions have on their family, friends and in this case the people who he represents in the community. You can look time and time again for examples of this lack of accountability being a huge problem that needs to be solved.
Lastly I didn't even utter the words liberal
That is what I enjoy on these and other forums. We all have differences of opinion and we have the right to them. Nothing is ever personal.
Cheers! | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/14/2008 10:17:51 PM | What did our last "date" cost me Missy W.? I paid $1.25 for bus fare to get to Tee Room. I walked for an hour. Got there and paid for , what, one $8 drink for you?
We left and, did you or I pay for the 2 bottles of Chablis? I forget.
We shared the wine and went to bed, me on the couch, I woke in need of the rest room and sat on the edge of your bed and gave you a kiss on the cheek. Then staggered back to the couch.
In the morning I made fertattas with your eggs and meats and veggies. Sorry if my spelling is wrong. Spell check does not recognise.
You took pics. of me in my beige jacket.
"Nothing is ever personal?" Bite me!
I am NOT trying to say Miss W. is a "cheap date" . She is , in fact, a very sophisticated woman with a well defined pallet and an expertise in cooking and wine. She just happens to take pity on simple guys like me.
Hope I did not embarrass you darlin'.
Love you,
Marcus | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/15/2008 8:28:14 PM |
Lastly I didn't even utter the words liberal
Every once in a while I am thoroughly pleased to be proven wrong.
Arrogance in any form deserves to be brought up short.  | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/18/2008 1:20:22 AM | Whats "morally bankrupt" is awarding a woman 47 million dollars who never wrote a song in her life and lived it up for the most part of her marriage. I feel for you Paul Mccartney. And to all the women who think he's stupid for not getting a pre-nub, he genuinely believed the woman he was with wasn't after his money. Hate to break it to you paul but tom lykis would have told u that, weekdays at 3 pm. But then again its not desperation, they're doing it because they would rather make a thousand dollars a night than a thousand a month (before taxes). the hooker with a heart of gold story is played out | |
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Posted: 3/18/2008 8:44:10 AM |
they're doing it because they would rather make a thousand dollars a night than a thousand a month (before taxes). the hooker with a heart of gold story is played out
But he probably would have rejected a woman his age with a heart of gold for being too old, too fat, not glamorize enough etc. | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/18/2008 8:00:40 PM | for sure it should b legal. and the gov can make $ off it.
i guess theres a loophole if u film it and say u r paying her to do your porn u can get away with it | |
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| legalized prostitution
Posted: 3/21/2008 9:49:52 PM | Personally, I feel that anything that is 'considered' a crime which doesn't actually cause harm to another person (or won't in the future), should be legalized within our country. Some of these laws inevitably end up filling up our jail cells with victims, not criminals. How many people actually go to a prostitute just because it's illegal, just for thrills, expecting to be imprisoned? Probably not. We're probably dealing with a group of people that are seeking paid erotic services simply because they can't seem to 'get laid' (like myself, but I've never even, nor would I ever use a prostitute), or want to intentionally cheat on a girlfriend or spouse (like ex Governor Spitzer) due to unsatisfactory conditions within a relationship.
I understand there's definitely a moral issue with prostitution. Since when has the government started regulating our morals? One word: TELEVISION! Enough said.
There are other laws I feel we shouldn't have but I don't want to get too far off topic. | |
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Posted: 3/21/2008 11:18:33 PM | free the hos. Governmental pimps for hire.
Let's tax the hos and take the pimp industry down. If they want to be a problem to themselves, then who are we to not reap the revenues that are available from the sex trade. | |
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