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| Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:05:10 PM | "you're wrong. You probably know it but it would destroy your ego to have to confront that fact. Do you feel good after being with a prostitute? What do you do when your time is up? "
I feel great, drained and exhausted much better then spending my time at a gym and when I'm done I shower say my goodbyes and leave.
"The fact that you are here, of course, leads me to suspect you feel the inherent contradiction of your position more than you care to admit. Deep down you want a relationship. So what's the problem? Well, as has been said many times in many places, if you are failing at relationships, the common denominator is YOU. Take a good hard look at yourself and you'll probably see what makes you unattractive to women for the purposes of a relationship. Don't pretend it is simply because you're not the best looking guy out there, or the richest guy out there, or whatever. A lot of ordinary guys can do it. YOU are your problem."
This thread is about legalizing prostitution not "why I can't get any dates"
if anyone has a problem, it's you. First of all, you are deviating from the topic, secondly You're making false and ignorant assumptions that you are in absolutely no position to make. You say that deep down inside we want relationships that we are failures in relationships and so fourth. how do you know that? you don't. This is a classic example of a bleeding heart trying to impose his belief system onto somebody else.
"It never ceases to amaze me that there are such whiners in this world. Men singing the praises of prostitution come across as offensively as women that loudly pronounce their independence from men. It really is true that our society is choked full of lonely people of both genders. A place like this and a thread like this just makes it obvious. "
Where do you seei anybody whinning? If I choose to see a prostitute instead of dealing with a woman who does not want to have sex with me. I'm not "whinning" about the fact she does not want to have sex with me. I choose to get my urges satisfied elsewhere.
I'm not advocating prostitution is the greatest thing in the world nobody is. It is true that society is choked of bleeding hearts who like to shove their morals down people's throats what bussiness is it of yours if he prefers goiing to prostitutes? how does it effect you? me think you need to get over yourself.
"Anyway, if you can't get dates with any decent women, that's your problem. Solve it. Or, accept the fact that you are a loser in the game of relationships. You might be able to fool yourself into believing that prostitutes are just as good but, somehow, the determined prostestations here seem a bit too much -- if you know what I mean."
Actually most men who go to prostitutes probably can get dates from women they just choose not to. A escort confessed to me more then half her clients are married men. It's not as black and white as just "oh he is a loser he can't get any dates" and if one really is a failure at relationships then he is better off going to prostitutes no? | |
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| What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/27/2008 1:10:56 PM |
How would relationships be different if prostitution was legal? This is not meant to be a debate about whether or not it should be legal (please don't talk about that here). I just want to get everyone's opinion on how the male/female dynamic would change.
Personally, I think that if prostitution were legal we might see women rely a lot less on withholding the promise of sex for their men in order to get what they want, since an unmarried man could easily get laid no matter what his condition.
I personally would NEVER go to a prostitute. Just not my thing. I dont have a problem personally with it being legal. Not a big issue I dont think. | |
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| What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/27/2008 3:47:27 PM | | If a woman's not going to give her man sex then why not be able to go to a prostitute? Women hold off sex and give it as some sort of reward. What's the difference between a prostitute and an affair?? To me nothing. If a woman kept her man happy at home he wouldn't look elsewehre. Men straying is the womans fault. | |
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| What if Prostitution was Legal?
Posted: 6/27/2008 8:34:34 PM | re the OP,
The concept you propose would devalue the whole idea of a relationship. In any case, there is and always will be the option to go to a prostitute (legal or not depending on where you live) but I couldn't respect the kind of person that would do it. | |
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| Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/28/2008 12:23:12 AM | The fact that you are here, of course, leads me to suspect you feel the inherent contradiction of your position more than you care to admit. Deep down you want a relationship. So what's the problem?
The problem is that you can't conceive of anyone who doesn't want what you want or the possibility that at any given time, one might have to choose between two mutually incompatible desires in order to eventually succeed at both. At this time, I do NOT want a relationship, deep down or otherwise. The only way I would get into one right now would be on my terms, period, which anyone ought to realize is NOT going to lead to great relationship. It's MY choice, not yours.
The most casual reader can deduce that by reading my profile. I will want a relationship at some time in the future but right now I have a business that requires the kind of specialized knowledge I spent years in graduate school to attain and I have no intention of throwing that away to accomodate a relationship. Yes, the common denominator is ME. I have a particular set of goals and I have limits on what I'm willing to let stand in the way of those. On the other hand, a lot of the posts I've read haven't suggested that this is the best place to look for a relationship.
Well, as has been said many times in many places, if you are failing at relationships, the common denominator is YOU.
As far as failed relationships go, I suppose you could say everyone that doesn't end in marriage is a failure, in which case, I've had a number of those, including several live ins. However, I've never had the ultimate failure of a divorce or left any children to pay for those ``failures.'' From where I stand, I've done a better job of figuring out what I really want than most. You don't even seem to comprehend the idea that to have a relationship the relationship can't be just about you.
From a male perspective, prostitutes are just a poor substitute for a mate.
And a mate is a poor substitue for a prostitute. I don't get your point.
Of course, humans have moved on somewhat and have sex for pleasure too. Again, prostitutes offer a rather poor substitute for that purpose.
The majority of men who visit prostitutes are married. It would seem at least those men choose the ``poor substitute'' in preferene to their mates. I'll skip the potentially lengthy digression regarding the obviously poor substitutes a spouse has been for a mate where those who have been divorced are concerned.
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LOL! Wrong! Men do only want one thing. But the source of that desire is in the urge to reproduce themselves. I know most sex isn't just about having babies but without our brain feeling that this need is being met by the sex being engaged, a we won't feel satisfied.
That has to be one of the most sexist and unenlightened remarks yet made. Let me see if I have this straight. A man who has sex with a prostitute will not feel satisfied because deep down he knows she won't bear his offspring. OK, a man who has sex with a woman who had a hystorectomy knows deep down she won't bear his offspring either. I suppose you could ague that the guy can look elsewhere and I'd rather let the women deal with that one. So, if a man has a vasectomy, does that mean he can't ever have a satisfying sexual relationship because deep down his brain knows he won't be making babies? You can't have it both ways. Since I haven't been snipped, I'll let those who have weigh in on that one. Who woulda thunk?
If you want to discuss prostitutes, you should stick to women who became prostitutes on purpose. Drug addicts... Sex slavery and prostitution are not the same... Doing so would reduce the discussion of prostitutes to a handful of women.
That is a strawman. Your own personal beliefs are not synonymous with facts.
Of course, preying on a prostitute that has little or no choice in having sex with you is probably at least as unethical if not more so.
A strawman. Preying on anyone for any reason is unethical. But I never suggested that anyone do that and your attempt to portray me that way for lack of a real argument, is, well, unethical (apart from being fallacious reasoning.)
Anyone facing such a situation ought to give serious thought to their relationship choices. The problem is YOU and only YOU can solve it. If you are not getting what you want out of a relationship you ought to be able to either exit it or change it before you feel like this.
Uh, I thought that was the point. I've thought about it and I've concluded that if I don't want everything else that goes along with a relationship, I shouldn't seek one out just for the parts I do want. Women don't seem to like that (if the threads on this forum are any indication). I'd also rather not waste my time in bars and risk my health looking for women in bars. My time is worth something to me. What part of that isn't crystal clear?
Have you considered that this point applies to a lot of prostitutes and that is one of the reasons that drug use is common?
Another strawman. You're opinion about prostitution and drug abuse is not fact. Given data which show drug use is higher among prostitutes than the average person does not imply that prostitution causes the drug abuse. Anyone familiar with elementary statistics knows that correlation does not imply causation.
You've gone beyond that mistake however. You've added your own personal belief that prostitutes use drugs because they just can handle the sex. It probably never occurred to you that drug addicts often become prostitutes because it's quick money or that having a lifestyle that gives someone access to lots of cash is a reason they might use drugs. But, let's apply your theory to lawyers:
According to the Michigan Bar Association, lawyers are more likely to have problems with drug abuse than the average person, so does that mean the legal profession is so terrible that lawyers are driven to substance abuse and it's unethical to hire a lawyer?
Have you thought about the kind of person that can separate "sex from love"?
Yeah. I have and I concluded that the kind of people that can separate sex from love are the majority of people who post here. What, you say? Yes. How many threads have you read in which most people consider having sex to be less serious than using the ``L word?'' It seems that lots of people think using the ``L word'' inside of a few months into an exclusive relationship is rushing it. Sex, on the other hand is considered premature by most if done on the first date, but after that things get iffy and opinions diverge rapidly. Guys don't seem to have a big problem with sex early on and women don't either if they ``like someone enough'' (whatever that means.) Unless you think the majority of people say ``I love you'' before hopping into the sack, you couldn't conclude otherwise.
Thank you for bringing that up. I didn't get to all of the hypocrisies.
I have to wonder out loud whether you're trying to convince the readers that the prostitutes you use are making a free choice or whether you're trying to make yourself feel better by holding on to that claim.
You'll have to keep wondering since you are determined to put words in my mouth regardless of what I say.
The only ones who make decent money are the ones who treat exactly like any other job by getting up and going to work everyday. But it isn't "exactly like any other job" and that was my point -- which you obviously missed.
By the same token, neither is underwater welding or any other job ``exactly like any other job,'' so you've stated a tautology that applies to any job, not an argument.
Seriously, "selling yourself" as a prostitute just cannot compare to "selling yourself" as floor sweeper.
Only because you equivocate ``selling yourself'' with prostitution. I'm not going to play semantics games here, so if you want to use the term ``selling yourself,'' make it clear whether you mean in the literal sense of being paid to do work you wouldn't do for free or selling out one's ethics for money or whatever you would like it to mean so that the meaning remains constant and I know what it is.
The more honest question would be: How many women are prostitutes by choice?
Define ``by choice.'' Does a prostitute who looks at her options for employment and decides that the job which best fits her expenses and time constraints is to be a prostitute, choosing? If so, then I can safely say, everyone I've met, although I'm sure there are those forced into it. A woman in New York was just sentenced to prison for keeping her houskeepers in slavery under wretched conditions. Does that mean hiring a housekeeper is unethical?
Look, if you're going to argue against something I've written, try creating an argument which doesn't begin with your personal assumptions about what I want, my motivations, and the way you think the world works.
I'm not you and though you might find this hard to understand, but I find your views regarding a person needing to know the possibility for procreation exists in order to be sexually satisfied to be bizarre, to say the least. I've spent my life getting out from under the kinds of preconceptions you seem to see as invariant truths, so it's highly unlikely that you can assume anything about the way I think and be correct. | |
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| Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/28/2008 12:58:57 AM |
It never ceases to amaze me that there are such whiners in this world.
Me too. You'll never hear me whining about anything (except perhaps fallacious logic.)
Men singing the praises of prostitution come across as offensively as women that loudly pronounce their independence from men. It really is true that our society is choked full of lonely people of both genders. A place like this and a thread like this just makes it obvious.
I'm not singing the praises of anything. I'm pointing out the alternatives to not getting into a relationship for those people who really don't want a relationship. There would be a lot LESS whining if people were honest with themselves about what they wanted, made a realistic assessment of what they were willing to do get it and then acted accordingly.
Anyway, if you can't get dates with any decent women, that's your problem.
Trying to address this would only lead to a pissing contest, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Elliot Spitzer was paying thousands of dollars to prostitutes because he couldn't find a women to have sex with him for free. Apparently, there are more factors to consider than just the old standbys. Anyone who can pay upwards of $1500.00 for a night with an escort is going to be able to get a date and $1500.00 is not anywhere near the high end.
Solve it. Or, accept the fact that you are a loser in the game of relationships. You might be able to fool yourself into believing that prostitutes are just as good but, somehow, the determined prostestations here seem a bit too much -- if you know what I mean.
You seem to be missing the big picture here. The point is not whether or not prostitutes are a better or worse choice than a relationship. The point is that either one is not a substitute for the other. Most people simply never consider the possibility that what they want isn't a relationship and a relationship is not a substitute for what they want. And no, I don't know what you mean. I'm not going to buy into being labled as an advocate for anything just because I can see a rationale for it. I can see a rationale for owning a gun and I would defend someone's right to own one, but I don't own one or have a desire to own one. | |
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| Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/28/2008 2:05:35 AM |
If a woman's not going to give her man sex then why not be able to go to a prostitute? Women hold off sex and give it as some sort of reward. What's the difference between a prostitute and an affair?? To me nothing. If a woman kept her man happy at home he wouldn't look elsewehre. Men straying is the womans fault.
Good Point Barry! | |
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| Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/28/2008 3:30:05 AM | @Ralph42:
So I'm checking back on this thread and some of the profoundly stupid comments that have managed to be posted...
Uff...arent we blessed? We were all waiting with bated breath. :)
From a male perspective, prostitutes are just a poor substitute for a mate. They reproduce an act of mating without the benefit. I know a lot of guys out in the world don't quite see it that way but the base purpose of sex is reproducing so your genes survive. That is why we are all programmed to want sex. If reproduction is not involved in the sex you have, your genes don't survive and you are already dead -- you just don't realize it. Prostitutes offer sex, and only sex.
Just tell that you are a person with low sex drive. Your idea sounds like religious drivel to me. And frankly in this day and age, this sounds 1800's. LOL. The purpose of sex is reproduction!! LOL. What preposterous drivel. But thanks for the laugh.
Of course, humans have moved on somewhat and have sex for pleasure too. Again, prostitutes offer a rather poor substitute for that purpose. Pleasure in sex is a lot more than just the act of sex. The pleasure of the act is derived from the interaction before and after. Prostitutes merely offer the physical act. Try as you might, you know that satisfying sex is a lot more than a physical act.
Then do just that....interaction before just and after. Get your****hard through foreplay and let it come down....not inside the vagina but outside. You have yourself admitted....the coital act is not necessary. Then why do you do it at all? Or are you gay?
Satisfying sex is both foreplay and sex. But the majority of that satisfaction comes from banging. Try as you might, you know that. :)
I find it difficult to fathom the males responding here trying to rationalize the isolation of the act of sex from the relational situation that encompasses sex. While it is certainly possible to do so (though not for all), it is effectively masterbation. For those gentlemen that have masterbated, do you really feel satisfied? All I can tell the sad souls that want to believe this nonsense is -- you're wrong. You probably know it but it would destroy your ego to have to confront that fact. Do you feel good after being with a prostitute? What do you do when your time is up?
Of course I feel satisfied if I masturbate. Why, you don't? You feel dissatisfied when you do it? Do you see how infantile your logic sounds? That people of the world should have sex YOUR way....where penetration is of little importance, where the act of sex is worthless without some sort of "relational situation". Why do you have sex at all?
When the time is up, we go about doing some other non-sexual activities.
All the jokes about paying for her to leave aside, the hard reality is that men want her to stay. That is the real ego trip. For those that have experience with prostitutes, just ask yourself, isn't it so much better when she goes above and beyond her role as a prostitute and does something like go out for dinner with you or spends more than just the allotted time with you without charging? If you've had the experience you know that makes the interaction so much better. If you're honest with yourself, you should now see that the very foundation of your claims about prostitution have disappeared.
Actually acts of courtesy are always heartwarming. But if you say that without that "above and beyond" thing, the exercise of sex is futile...then I dont know what to say to you.....you are a person of extremely low self esteem. Any act of kindness gives your ego such a boost that after that the act of sex is insignificant to you. Well ...Sir, we have a different outlook. We have sex for carnal pleasure.
Why would you all be hanging around a dating site if prostitution was such a panacea? Sure, there probably are a few prostitutes lurking here, but really. This is not the right place to be looking if you're looking for prostitutes. If your reduction of relationships to an act of prostitution had any validity, why would you possibly be here specifying desires for relationships you supposedly believe you can derive from prostitutes?
Because we are avaricious. We want to lease the cow and buy the milk too. See the act of seeking a date and the act of seeking a prostitute may not be mutually exclusive. To you date means marriage. Others may not think like that. Why cant you appreciate that fact?
Most relationships are not permanent. So whats wrong in paying a hooker when Im not in a relationship? Relationships may not be exactly prostitution, but dating and casual sex and then not seeing each other (happens a lot) is no different from paying a prostitute.
The fact that you are here, of course, leads me to suspect you feel the inherent contradiction of your position more than you care to admit. Deep down you want a relationship. So what's the problem? Well, as has been said many times in many places, if you are failing at relationships, the common denominator is YOU. Take a good hard look at yourself and you'll probably see what makes you unattractive to women for the purposes of a relationship. Don't pretend it is simply because you're not the best looking guy out there, or the richest guy out there, or whatever. A lot of ordinary guys can do it. YOU are your problem.
Yes and no. Deep down we want a relationship. True. 'Deep down' I also want what you don't want- a tight grip, if you know what I mean. Deep down!!!! LOL. How do you know for what reason who is here? Many people are in thus site just for the forums.
Have you ever also thought that the desire for sex for some men could be greater than the desire for relationships? Many men get married or into relationships for sex. The great thing about prostitution is that it comes without any strings attached. But from what you said.....its always your fault...women are to be put on a pedestal...im the scoundrel....I need to look deep down in me.....not deep down hers...and bla bla bla bla bla ...its abundantly clear that you like to be validated....you have no self esteem....and your desire for sex and even relation ships is for the pleasure of your partner....not for yourself. In your relationship book....you dont live for each other....you live for your partner. :)
Your view is so binary- either 0 or 1. Relationship or single with no sex. Well guess what a lot of men like to traverse the interval between 0 and 1. I am proud that I don't have a binary view like you
It never ceases to amaze me that there are such whiners in this world. Men singing the praises of prostitution come across as offensively as women that loudly pronounce their independence from men. It really is true that our society is choked full of lonely people of both genders. A place like this and a thread like this just makes it obvious.
Just like it never cease to amaze me how many loons who have scant regard for individual freedom try to shove down their view down others throat with scant regard for things like logic. Your comment in that regard is quite offensive too. You are a menace.
Anyway, if you can't get dates with any decent women, that's your problem. Solve it. Or, accept the fact that you are a loser in the game of relationships. You might be able to fool yourself into believing that prostitutes are just as good but, somehow, the determined prostestations here seem a bit too much -- if you know what I mean.
Again you see...the problem is YOU. You like to be validated. So if you have a relationship and Tom,****and Harry come up and pat your back and say "Bravo....now you are a winner", you are a winner. ...not because she is good in the sack....but because they said so:) I love myself a lot. I will do whatever (without any coercion) to get my pleasure. If you and your friends think that my seeing a hooker for the quest for that pleasure makes me a loser, I am a 'happy loser'. LOL.
LOL! Wrong! Men do only want one thing. But the source of that desire is in the urge to reproduce themselves. I know most sex isn't just about having babies but without our brain feeling that this need is being met by the sex being engaged, a we won't feel satisfied.
Correction. YOU wont feel satisfied. :)
But it isn't "exactly like any other job" and that was my point -- which you obviously missed.
Umm..are you a prostitute? If not then please dont speak on behalf of them as an authority. Keep your biases to yourself.
Doing so would reduce the discussion of prostitutes to a handful of women. The incidence of drug use among prostitutes is overwhelming. In part that becomes a necessary means to dissociate while engaging in sex with average guys whom the prostitute would likely not have sex with otherwise. Likewise, some level of coercion is common in all prostitution. If market economics are considered, effectively all prostitution is coerced. Trying to restrict a discussion of prostitution to the tiny number of up-market escorts choosing to prostitute themselves is foolish at best but more probably disingenuous.
I have to wonder out loud whether you're trying to convince the readers that the prostitutes you use are making a free choice or whether you're trying to make yourself feel better by holding on to that claim.
Read what Abelian said about your propensity for logical fallacies and causation correlation error.
The more honest question would be: How many women are prostitutes by choice? The few serious studies that have been done do not suggest there are many who enter prostitution by choice and there are even fewer that remain a significant length of time through their own volition.
I was talking to an auto mechanic today. he said he would have never taken up this job out of choice. But he did! He had to. Without coercion. And even though he didn't particularly enjoy it, it provided a livelihood. There are thousands of people in any profession who do not really enjoy what they do...but they do so....and noone put a gun on their head and asked them to be so. As I have said, forcing a girl to enter the world of prostitution is a crime. But if she does so out economic necessity, it is nobody's fault.
Non-sense! By expanding the meaning of "selling yourself" to this extent, you effectively make it meaningless. When is the last time your employer asked you to give him a bj -- and mind the teeth? Seriously, "selling yourself" as a prostitute just cannot compare to "selling yourself" as floor sweeper.
Now you are beginning to sound retarded. Every job has its description. If my job required me to give my boss a bj, it would have a skill requirement. Bottomline. You know or have a fair idea where you are going. A prostitute also has a fair idea that she is selling her body.
"How great would it feel at age 70 to look back and see that you have penetrated 100 different and unique vaginas??"
I'm quoting this sentence because, with all the absurdity presented in this thread, this has to rank as the most absurd thing written here. I can only hope that the goal is not merely to have sex with each of those "vaginas" just once. Because if it is, that's a really, really, really, tiny number of times to be having sex in a lifetime (if we can count "age 70" to be a lifetime). Anyway, if you set your mind to it, you could probably accomplish that goal in 4 months -- tops. Of course, if you seriously are just thinking of penetration you might be able to do it in a day. Good luck with that.
And frankly, I don't have words to thank you for considering my statement as absurd. With the kind of logic that you have displayed so far in this discourse, it would have been a cause for alarm if you would have said otherwise. So I am very happy that you think that my statement was absurd!! It was your assumption that it had to be just once with each woman. by 100 I did not mean 100 prostitutes. That 100 was just for purposes of illustration. If I am dating someone, or have a friends with benefit which I currently do, I have it more than 100 times in 4 months. But to you 100 times in 120 days is a huge number. Didnt I tell you that you are a person with low sex drive? If there are even 5 relationships there (say 2 long term, 3 short term), I am happy. But I seek variety. I am willing to have sex from whichever source I get it where coercion is not involved. Maybe I am ambitious in that regard. And I know that years into a marriage, the frequency slowly goes down. LOL. But its futile trying to explain to a narrow minded person like you what visual stimulus and desire for variety means. You go and watch the same episode of Seinfield (rather infrequently)..and only just that...again and again and again. LOL. | |
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| Happy Hookers?
Posted: 6/30/2008 11:47:20 AM |
Let me see if I have this straight. A man who has sex with a prostitute will not feel satisfied because deep down he knows she won't bear his offspring. OK, a man who has sex with a woman who had a hystorectomy knows deep down she won't bear his offspring either. I suppose you could ague that the guy can look elsewhere and I'd rather let the women deal with that one. So, if a man has a vasectomy, does that mean he can't ever have a satisfying sexual relationship because deep down his brain knows he won't be making babies?
And by the poster's logic, a man can not be satisfied with sex with a woman past menopause. A man who uses a condom can't be satisfied with sex. And forget about having sex with a woman on birth control pills or one with an IUD. Just not satisfying.
By this logic, a man who only wants 2 children could end up having sex only twice in his life.
It's amazing how out of touch with reality some people are. | |
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