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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 3:58:17 PM | Friday, no one is recommending America sweep slavery under the rug or minimize its effects. MLK was one of our greatest leaders and is honored as such, and not just in the black community.
I also don’t agree that slavery has been “overlooked” in our schools. It never was when I was educated 30 yrs ago (I’m part of the generation that came of age when the TV series “Roots” came out, and that certainly stimulated attention).
There’s a fine line between education over past wrongs and obsession with victimhood.
Probably the only example of racial injustice as bad, and in some ways worse, than slavery in American history (it actually predates the founding of America) is what happened to North American indigenous peoples. When white European colonizers landed on American shores, the native Indians were not enslaved but wholly exterminated from one end of the nation to the other, their land stolen. Those that were left were herded into reservations and basically given a choice, either integrate themselves into American society (and put up with all the attendant ridicule, resistance, and racism) or stay on reservations.
If you favor some form of financial “reparations” for present-day blacks, how much are we talking about here? We’d also have to delineate just exactly who gets what, since everyone’s DNA is so diluted (case in point, Obama himself)? Constituting total “blackness” would be difficult; would the amount of reparations be based on how “black” one is? Would it be 80%, 60%, 50% of one’s genetic heritage? And just who decides?
You mean if the US government cuts a check and gives out a few hundred or thousands of dollars in specifically “targeted” compensation for racial injustices, the country will NEVER hear any more on the subject of slavery from the black community, forever and ever? Hardly. If anything, some people will always want more and tie up our court system for decades.
What about the American Indian example I used above? What compensation would you think fair to address the taking of their land and extermination of whole peoples? Maybe not only financial redress, but give them back huge swaths of land to boot? Are you willing to hand over the land you live on to the ancestors of native Americans in order to “make things right”?
I'm of Mexican heritage, and many Mexicans to this day believe giant parts of the southwest were "stolen" and should still be considered part of Mexico. If you investigate history they certainly have a argument. Do you support giving the disputed land back to Mexico and paying billions, maybe trillions, in "reparations" (we're talking "our" tax dollars here)?
The examples I could use are endless.
No, I'm sorry. I will NEVER support the mindset of victimization because it only furthers it and never gives closure. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 4:23:08 PM | | Motown,, we probally agree on more areas concerning this subject than we disagree. I'm a direct decendant of slaves...but I don't think money is the answer....I think that there has to be recognation by the U.S. government verbally on how wrong it was and the damage that it caused. Actions and words could do so much more than any amount of money. Things that help Americans and the world know that the days of the good ol boy networks and white supremacy is something that no longer exists in the main stream of This Great country. That hardwork alone will get you there...that glass ceilings are a thing of the past. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 4:53:21 PM | Yes, Friday, based on your posts in this thread we probably do agree more than disagree. In many ways forums or message boards are poor substitutes for in-depth, face-to-face discussions.
I do think America is getting past the white-dominated, good ole boy networks. I live in metropolitan Detroit, and we've had black city administrations for decades now, something that many would have thought impossible just 40 years ago. We've also had blacks in the highest levels of government (Colin Powell, Condi Rice). Obama's candidacy is the best proof of all that America is ready for a black president.
Obama in 08!  | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 5:36:51 PM | | so friday, I know you love to ignore me for some reason. perhaps it's because we differ in opinion, I don't know. you want the united states to say how wrong slavery was. that is going to cost tax payers money. tax payers who had nothing to do with slavery. my question to you is, when does it end? I don't see the jews lining up in the streets to give an apology to the christians for killing jesus. I don't see the jews lining up in the streets to get an apology from the germans for the holocaust. should they be? when is enough enough? when can people "get over it?" you have asked people to "move on" from reverend rights statements. I ask you to do the same. move on. get over it. an apology means nothing. I am not sorry for something that someone else did. if a government apology, at the tax payers expense, gives you closure, then more power to you. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 5:47:10 PM | | Whatever man, say what you really mean...Reparations anyone?....I don't think present day Americans owe anything to the Black community for Slavery...sorry, makes no sense to me...my father was born in France my mother is French Canadian and Blackfoot so why should I have to pay or be sorry for anything that was done by an extremely small percentage of Americans in the past...read some books or something, very few whites actually owned slaves ..... | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 5:58:05 PM | When did this get off the Rev. Wright being someone surrounding Senator Obama and get to be a race war?
Those never get "won" by the way.
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 6:44:04 PM | Simmah, in my view, the core issues revolving around Wright and Obama have "everything" to do with race in this country, so any discussion "must" incorporate it. To avoid it is like trying to ignore a two-thousand pound elephant in the corner of a room.
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 6:47:12 PM | Well, I agree to a point, motown, but it just seemed to me to be getting a little out of control. And I have a hard time not observing out loud. lol
Honestly though, I think the person/people that brought race into this race has been everyone BUT Obama. Sad, really, all of it. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 9:55:53 PM | It is very sad indeed, especially when it seemed so many needed to zero in on all of this instead of other topics related to the election.
His name
his father
the reverend
his supposed faith of being a Muslim (when he's not)
people were throwing race out long before it was ever certain he would run. talk about true colors showing. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/1/2008 11:31:46 PM | motown:
Simmah, in my view, the core issues revolving around Wright and Obama have "everything" to do with race in this country, so any discussion "must" incorporate it. To avoid it is like trying to ignore a two-thousand pound elephant in the corner of a room.
Indeed, and there's no reason why that can't be a positive thing. I really felt when Obama made his "race in America" speech after the Wright story broke, that we were at a point of real opportunity for race to be publicly discussed in a positive way, but that sank like a lead baloon...and for that, I really blame the coverage of the speech by mainstream media, including news networks that some describe as (LOL) "liberal." I was incensed, for example, by CNN's coverage, which was basically asking commentator after commentator whether or not Obama had "done enough" to distance himself from Wright. I remember seeing pundits giddy with excitement over the speech, but being shut down from the discussion they wanted to have for the sake of assinine, meaningless coversation....it was really awful. It's the first time I've ever written in to CNN....
But so there you are. Race is the elephant in the room, but we remain a country basically too immature to discuss it......still too raw? I dunno....IMO many of us are still just too racist. Happily not so many that we can't elect a black president....as long as we don't talk about RACE in a way that makes (racist) people uncomfortable..... | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 1:38:50 AM | I agree with those who believe that a true, searching, "discussion" on race is in order, well-past-due, and absolutely necessary for race relations in this country to improve. I also agree that -- at least for the foreseeable future -- that discussion will remain the "2000-pound elephant" in the corner of the room that no one talks to.
As I see it, when a White American pauses to analytically look at our nation and sees the grossly-disproportionate representation of Black Americans in its lowest socio-economic strata, he/she reaches one of three explanatory conclusions:
(1) That Blacks are generally intellectually inferior, and that inferiority explains their predicament;
(2) That Blacks are generally lazy, shiftless, or otherwise inadequately motivated to improve their lot; or
(3) That White America has some measure of culpability to that situation, which it has yet to own up to, and some measure of complicity in the persistence of Black America's predicament.
I believe that those settling on one of the first two conclusions are, per se, racists. And I believe the majority of White America, at least tacitly, adopt the third conclusion posited. That is, while each individual White American knows that he/she hasn't personally done anything that would make him/her directly culpable to the condition under discussion, he/she knows that they enjoy some indirect advantage -- or, at least, do not suffer any disadvantage -- as a result of the sins of many of our White forefathers. This group includes those who readily acknowledge that we've got an effed-up problem over here, but feel powerless to do much to effect any real change.
It is the uncomfortable, clammy, and somewhat "guilty" feeling that would come with openly acknowledging and discussing these possibly unresolvable matters that -- at least indirectly -- "indict" White Americans, which makes them adverse to having that necessary discussion.
It's really sad and, unfortunately, none of our social scientists has been able to come up with a viable solution that problem. As such, the 2000-pound elephant continues to eat peanuts.
Hey, Motown!! --- Do you think they're gonna turn up anything that shows Kwami had Strawberry killed?!!  | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 3:49:33 AM | There are still a lot of text messages that haven't been released to the public, so I'm still holding out hope, Vyp.  | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 5:25:30 AM | Vyper, my friend:
As I see it, when a White American pauses to analytically look at our nation... tsk tsk tsk...
In order to make progress here we all must agree to put down the broad brushes, don't you agree?
Some of us here--even some of us White American people--have been analytical and have been engaging in this much-needed conversation; haven't you seen us here?
... a little mutual R-E-S-P-E-C-T, please...a little credit where credit is due? | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 6:28:28 AM | Motown? Do you think Kwame should go? Is he being railroaded or is everything that is coming out about him now? His mom seemed like a good woman...but I guess you never know.
Jmarquis...damn you don't read...since you were all in my thread to motown....take the time to actually read it PleasE. An apology in words...from the American government...not cash, coins, gold or any kind of bounty. You like to argue for arguments sake. I don't...if my mind can be changed i'm always open to it which is why I come onto these forums. I give or respond to an oppinion hoping for feedback that if I deem valid I may change my stance on certain issues. Key point being that I read carefully...try it | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:04:36 AM |
Jmarquis...damn you don't read...since you were all in my thread to motown....take the time to actually read it PleasE. An apology in words...from the American government...not cash, coins, gold or any kind of bounty. You like to argue for arguments sake. I don't...if my mind can be changed i'm always open to it which is why I come onto these forums. I give or respond to an oppinion hoping for feedback that if I deem valid I may change my stance on certain issues. Key point being that I read carefully...try it
wow. so much wrong with this statement. where to start. how about you saying that I was all in YOUR thread to motown. let me explain the way the site works. threads are public. neither of you even started this thread. you want a private conversation, send someone a private message. I do it all the time. this is a free country and we are all allowed to post in these threads. oh wait, barack obama is your messiah, you don't believe in freedom. forgot about that. you are voting for enslavement. I never said anything about cash, coins, or gold. I said that a government apology would cost the tax payers money. tax payers whom never owned any slaves. you don't seem to realize that it costs $50,000,000 for the government to wipe their noses. some states have actually issued an apology. if the country does it, what are people like al sharpton, one of the biggest racists in our country, going to have to complain about? also, you never answered my question as usual. how about the jews and the germans, how about the jews and the christians. the jews killed jesus, don't seem them apologizing for it. if a formal apology would make you happy, then fine. but know this. when you walk down the street, no person on that street is sorry for slavery. history can't apologize, and americans aren't sorry. they don't care.
if I can use a bit of logic on you for a moment. if you want the american government to apologize, when are you going to demand the apology from the african government for selling their own people into slavery? or is that not wrong? if we use this logic, that's like saying that drug users are 100% to blame for their drug use. the drug dealer deserves no blame. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............think about it. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:36:23 AM | ^^^^
oh wait, barack obama is your messiah, you don't believe in freedom. forgot about that. you are voting for enslavement. WTF? You're really off-the-wall, marquis.
but know this. when you walk down the street, no person on that street is sorry for slavery. history can't apologize, and americans aren't sorry. they don't care. Speak for yourself, [unmentionable]. Many of us, probably most of us, do care.
This is going from bad to worse. Marquise, your comments are uncalled for and shameless. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:39:16 AM | Sorry...I assumed this horse was already dead...
And yet people seem to keep beating it....
Hmmm | |
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NERO1
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Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 693 | |
| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 9:39:16 AM | QUOTE: Speak for yourself, [unmentionable]. Many of us, probably most of us, do care.
^^^ I'm with you, "wherefore art thou"... Many , if not probably most, non-black peoples do care about and realize the validity and legitimacy of the historical grievances which black Americans have with the US. Even though my family was not here at the time, I am concerned with it as well, and find it hard to believe how people could have literally owned and traded other people (and we're not talking 2,000 yrs ago when man was considerably more barbaric in general -- we're talking much more relatively recently). | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 11:17:59 AM | Good grief. As someone else said, on another thread, the 'slavery' issue will never die. Forget not that it was the African American's relatives and tribal leaders who sold them!!! Not just to Americans... but, French, British, Italian, etc. etc. etc.
Who does not understand that minorities gravitate to the USA for opportunities. Some...'operative word' 'some' of which is entitlement based solely on Race. Not so in most other Countries. Many African Americans left other Countries and came here... Some stayed here. They have the advantage here... so, don't even try shoving down my throat.. Entitlement anymore. I am totally weary of it... as are a growing number of Americans. Get over it already.
As for the 'Wright' issue. 20 plus years people. Very close association with Wright was Obama. Who knows, might still be, in private. But, Obama has now denounced Wright. Get it???? It's very very clear to see what happened. Don't insult my intelligence and think I will believe Obama does not share the belief system Wright does and that is the 'Race Card'. Period. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 2:32:35 PM | Jedi Girl....what is wrong with you. How much hate in your heart do you have to have to say something that rediculous. My GOD, I truly wonder about some of you guys childhood....It's almost like you enjoy being hateful. I'll pray for you regardless.
There were more than 10-12 million slaves brought to America, this doesn't account for the ones that were killed during capture or died on the ships . These people did not voluntarily come over here contrary to anything you may believe. I think if you really wanted to know this you wouldn't spout such ignorance. The civil war was fought so that sothern whites(the Confederacy) could maintain their slaves and their way of life in the south. They were willing to split this country up over it. How patriotic. No one wants anything from you guys. But as an American citizen who has just as much right as you....I reserve the right to ask this from my government without recieving hate speech. Jedi girl do you really want us to all believe that you were actually behind Obama in the first place and that this reverend wright thing so upset you that your now on a rampage.....It seems like more of a stunt to rile up racial hatred and to galvanize support for your own agendas. Don't assume that all blacks or even Obama for that matter thinks like either of those bafoon Reverends. Don't be so naive to think that all african american Reverends are like Wright. I'm not so naive to believe that All Caucasian Reverends are Like Hagee, Roberts, Bakker or swaggert. I've actually been to multiethnic churches before. My Church readily excepts all races...does yours? | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 3:43:08 PM | | it seems that once again the "OH MY GAWD !! THE BLACK MAN GONNA GIT REVENGE" syndrome seems to have appeared. It's both hilariousd and pathetic LOL | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 4:45:20 PM | Motown? Do you think Kwame should go? Is he being railroaded or is everything that is coming out about him now?
Friday, when I think of Kwame I'm equal parts sad and angry that someone so obviously intelligent, charismatic, and politically skilled could squander his prodigious gifts (the man is a born communicator) and ruin a bright political future over something so frivolous and stupid.
If he just would have come clean at the start about his affair with his Chief of Staff, Christine Beatty, the scandal would have died quickly with little damage to his and the city's reputation. But instead he lied and tried to cover up the truth, wrongfully firing two investigating police officers (both black), which took him to court and won a settlement that cost city taxpayers almost nine million dollars. The reason he settled so abruptly was because the former officer's attorneys got a hold of very incriminating text messages he had with Beatty, all but proving his guilt, and as part of the settlement the messages were never to be released.
However, after the messages "were" released by court order in a freedom of information suit, he then compounded matters even further by using the race card and charging the media was "out to get him", both patently absurd (as the thousands of text messages he had with Beatty, very sexually explicit, and his scheming to get rid of the officers before they could uncover the truth, confirm).
To this day he has not accepted full responsibility for the debacle and continues to deflect all criticism, so yes, I think he should step down.
Very sad over what could have been (he was considered a rising star and even governorship material). | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 6:07:03 PM | | Thanx for the clarification. The fact that he cheated on his wife and lied about it is frustrating enough. If the governor of NY should step down then so should he. Does he have a lot of people there backing him...or is it becoming racially divided? I saw that the lead prosecutor was black. Which makes it not appear to be a black whit issue...more of just an abuse of power issue. | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 6:16:37 PM | | Man, what is it with all the nutty preachers in this country? | |
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| Mr.Wright (Move On)
Posted: 6/2/2008 7:06:04 PM | Friday, almost all the principals in the case are black, so his charges of racism holds no water with me. Yes, definitely an abuse of power case.
Kwame has both very vocal supporters and critics; it's hard to figure the ratio, though. I do know Detroit City Council (all black) asked him to step down voluntarily, and when he didn't voted to remove him by using some mechanism in the city charter. The problem is the impeachment clause was removed years ago and never reinstated, so they don't have too much legal basis to force him out if he wants to serve the rest of his term. He could be recalled, but so far I haven't seen any serious petition drive to do so.
The current push is for the Michigan governor, Jennifer Granholm, to step in and remove him by executive action, but so far she's declined to get involved in such a politically-charged issue. | |
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