|
|
|
|
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:22:27 AM | She's a ****. What kind of sick, twisted little slvt would use a child as a pawn in some immature game!
Kudos to you for loving your child and pushing to see him...keep it up. Take your lawyer's advice and face her in court. Don't give up, ever...your son needs you!
 | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:25:51 AM | I think the reason the OP hasn't responded to any of the insinuations that he hasn't been paying child support is that it's probably the case. If so, then I can understand the single mother who has been struggling and sacrificing to raise the kid on her own not wanting Daddy flying in like some hero with presents and special attention she can't give because, gee, she's using her "toy money" to pay the rent and keep food on the table every day. I can understand it. It's really unfair. But the reality is, the child doesn't have to suffer the lack of emotional relationship with his dad growing up. That's more important than the mother feeling fairly appreciated by the kid. And the reality is, once the kid grows up he is going to understand how irresponsible his dad was and how his mother was the one who was really there for him. He will have a relationship with both parents and love both, but Mom will get the credit she deserves.
The OP should take the mother to court for the benefit of their child. (He should also make sure he does start paying child support, if he isn't already doing so, because that is also the right thing to do.) | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:35:53 AM | Sometimes no matter how hard we try, our ex's will not be mature and work with us...at that point, we have no recourse but to fight them in court. My ex-husband gets angry with me for taking him to court when he doesn't pay child support or provide insurance but, if he would just do what he has agreed to do, then there would be no need for it...I hate going to court too, I would rather be civil...unfortunately, he will not cooperate in that respect.
It is only about her trying to hurt YOU and not realizing that your son is the one being hurt the most.
She will ALWAYS fight you on this but for your son's sake, don't back down and don't ever give up. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:44:42 AM | whether a parent pays child support or not he/she is strongly encouraged to go through the courts and obtain visitation rights. child support payments or not having nothing to do with visitation. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:45:15 AM | A women who blocks access and is more interested in her own anger than she is of the child's right to a relationship with their father is not a woman who will suddenly turn around and be respectful. She will not respect the child's freedom, and she will not respect your good faith. She will not be reasonable. The child is first and foremost a tool for her to exercise control over you.
The responsible thing is to be proactive and go to court. I used to labor under the same misconception as you do. But I've learned that people who are into power don't understand protocols of good faith. It's not about any emotional issue, it is plainly that the approach you are suggestion will simply be fruitless. It's really not personal. Your way of doing things is the opposite of the way of the controller, she simply cannot relate to this protocol. At the very least, she will treat it with suspicion. Controllers are fear motivated. She will fear your hidden agendas. Everything that you do is a con in her mind.
It's really very sad. No one like to see a person degenerate to this state but it is all too common a pattern for controlling women who are mothers. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:45:32 AM | paying child support does not automatically mean child visitation. Go to court, have your legal rights down on paper. You might check into the "poisoning the mind of a child" thing. Children are a huge responsibility, not just when it is convenient. I have experiences with 2 ex's, the first your typical dead-beat dad, blames me cause he has to pay support, has never kept to the visitation schedule, always one excuse or another. always changing jobs,rarely shows up at any of their school functions, ballgames. How could this be a positive in our son's lives? Over the years, i have gotten pretty good at being a buffer between his actions and how my sons react.
the 2nd ex, we have a 9 year old daughter, we have not been to court the first time, over her. He routinely drives 2 hours one way, every other weekend to get her. Never a concern over child support, he also takes her shopping for clothes, has bought the majority of shoes she wears, and every coat she has ever worn. Also sends an extra check every month for her lunch money. We alternate every year claiming her as a dependent on taxes. He comes down to see teachers, and doctors, dentists, school plays, dances. He also takes her on long weekends, vacations, birthday parties that she wants to go to, on his weekend, even if it means a 2 hours drive back to our area to get her there. there is a lot more to being a father than just getting visitation, or paying child support. there is the emotional, financial, physical, and psychological aspects that are there on a daily basis, not just every other weekend. And certainly not when it is convenient.
If your not going to be a father to your child, why fight for it? but if you can commit to it, see an attorney, go to court, prove yourself to be a responsible parent. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 11:52:27 AM | whether a parent pays child support or not he/she is strongly encouraged to go through the courts and obtain visitation rights. child support payments or not having nothing to do with visitation.
dont get sucked in ,,they will get there support payments and she might not let you see your boy ..even if a judge rules in favour of some short custody and he will ,,she wont be forced to oblidge by any cop or family service worker and you will just become another dad on here complaining about not seeing there children..and told by all to go see a lawyer AGAIN ..find a way to contact your boy ,EMAIL,,MSN..FACEBOOK..,and tell him you love him ..little by little ..he will come back to you .If you go to court you have one option to win ,,is she unfit ? must be proved in court ..documentation is very important ....spending everything in court fighting dosent help prove a thing to your child ..you would be better off giveing him a new skate board every month ..and offer a car to borrow at 16 ... and he will come back ..
By the way you don't have a right to access only a reponsibility or duty of care towards your son.
..your financily responsable,,and once in court you learn they feel thats far more the issue then your custody..
| |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 12:03:21 PM | OP, I'm sorry but you need to get a court order to secure contact and to let your son know that you want to be part of his life. Your son is of an age to make this decision without his mother's influence and I'm afraid that the only way this can happen is impartially through the legal system. By the way you don't have a right to access only a reponsibility or duty of care towards your son.
Goodluck | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 12:44:16 PM | Your son is of an age to make this decision without his mother's influence and I'm afraid that the only way this can happen is impartially through the legal system
wrong
they hate it when you bring your kids into the fight .and will jump all over you for thinking about doing it .so don't ..in fact don't try and fight your ex at all..concintrate on making contact with your boy and open up a line of communication ..the internet works for many fathers in the same boat..all the kids are online now..
the system is broken ,,look for ideas how to make contact from the many other men here in Canada who are in the same boat ..stay out of court ..spend some cash on a PI if you can afford it ..a witness to parental alienation would be nice ..see a child councillor if you must go to court,they can be a big help..do you have 50,000 to spend?oh and thats not counting the money she will nail you for on day one in court ..thats a lot of PI time and a few new skate boards ,cell ,,car,,college,,think about it ,,stay away from court and lawyers and family services..the scales of justice are broken.. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 2:21:55 PM | Some good advice in here, I hope it has an effect on you. But your second comment has me wondering. I think something very important is at stake here. Are you what could be called Father Material ? I mean are you a good example for your son?
1. Are you paying child support because it is the right thing to do regardless of what she does with it?
2. Are you willing to fight for a good cause or do you look to other people for advice and direction?
3. Do you know how to ignore verbal attacks?
I am wondering why after having a relationship with you, she doesn't think you are fit to be a father figure for the son you share together. She probably knows you better than I do, after 10+ years together (12 year old son/ split up 2 years ago) so, all I can go by is what you have posted but I made 3 points that I dont think you have a grip on yet. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 2:29:34 PM |
Listen to your lawyer, Call her behavior out for what it is, and most importantly send the message to your son that you love him enough to fight for him.
Exactly - because your son may believe that you don't want anything to do with him. If your ex is refusing you contact, she is most likely telling your son that you abandoned him - so hoping that he will simply come back to you in a few years in a rebellion against his mother is a weak hope at best. He will hate you believing you don't want him. Your best bet is to take legal action to make sure you have regular contact with your son!
If you wait much longer, you will be lucky to get unsupervised visitation because of the lack of contact, so get moving! | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 2:47:38 PM | | It is sad when people are not mature or adult enough to put the rights of the child before their own petty differences. The only reason for blocking access here is spite and revenge.Just not being a big enough person, to think of someone before yourself.I don't know the legal situation where you live. If it is fair use it.Put money away every week for your son in a separate bank a/c to discharge your financial responsibilities towards your child.Do whats right yourself, despite what your ex does. her behavior is her responsibility, yours is yours.In a few years he can see you when he wants, so concentrate on building a solid relationship with him.It will pay dividends in the future. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/17/2008 10:40:38 PM | Of all the things that this boy needs from his father, a child support check should be on the bottom of the list,
I disagree food and water are the most important need humans have followed by shelter from the elements. Food,shelter and clothing are not free. Neither is medical care, or a decent education.
If you make a baby you must support the baby financially AND emotionally from birth through college or at least 18 or give it to someone who will.
| |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:30:32 AM | | You need to fight her in court. He is your son and in my opinion,unless you were physically violent towards her or your son, then she has no right keeping you away from him! | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 2:55:57 AM | Sadly, you can want to settle this civily all you want, but if she isn't willing, your only option is to take her to court and fight for your right to be in his life. She isn't allowed to keep you from your son.
My brother has been going through this for over a year. He has been fighting in court. They had a visitation arrangement, and she still broke it. He finally told her..and the kids who are teens and brainwashed...you will spend time with me, I am still your father.
Good luck op, and hopefully your son sees his mother for who she is. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 5:46:23 AM |
If you make a baby you must support the baby financially AND emotionally from birth through college or at least 18 or give it to someone who will.
I think it's good that you raised these as important components of raising a child but there are two issues that the statement doesn't solve:
1) the word "must" isn't a whole hell of a lot of good when the option of supporting your child emotionally (or even financially) is forcibly removed from you through no cause/fault of your own. When it is in your circle of concern but not in your circle of influence.
2) it doesn't clarify the issue of whether or not money paid should be tied to access.
The word "should" is also pretty useless when reality's fat arse comes and sits on your agenda. People who have never been father's who have had their children kidnapped from them and held to ransom will never understand the utter futility of words like "must" and "should". Explanations that "one day when your kids are older, they will learn the truth" are cold comfort. Words like "should" and "must" don't stop those little human beings from growing up to have a gaping huge father shaped holes in their lives because of the judgment of one individual (the mother). How is the mother gonna compensate the adult daughter who has grown up with a tragically flawed concept of male/female relationships and has had her body used gratuitously for sex since a young age. Is she going to apologise to the angry young man for not being the father to him that would have taught him how to be a man, and not a lost cause who never understood boundaries and respect for himself and others? Perhaps these are the questions that need to be raised at the next ladies tea party or playgroup when one whining woman indulges herself in a story of self-pity how her [ex] husband is to blame for everything that goes wrong in a relationship and how that is justification to permanently cripple the children by slashing their parenting resources in half.
The idea that a father should have an amount of access based on how much money he forked out is surely the spawn of a lunatic. What you end up doing is setting up child access as a kind of commodity that can be bought. This makes it currency. This is what feeds behavioral atrocities committed by control freaks. Control freaks use whatever currency they can get their hands on to control others and get what they want. They are machines that act as though in the complete absence of choice. At best, the controlling mother then becomes the child's tyrannical pimp. All the other racketeering, extortion, blackmail, and collateral damaging passive aggressive violence become mere background noise.
(you may have guess, I am not having a good day) | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:15:55 AM |
The idea that a father should have an amount of access based on how much money he forked out is surely the spawn of a lunatic.
Good point on the commoditization of access. Surely there aren't any laws left that tie access to support payments, are there?
I raised my daughter alone... she's never met her father as we divorced when I was pregnant and he decided not to be involved with her. All of the research I've read (and they have tracking studies over many years now, so there is a considerable body of work on the realities of children and divorce) about single parent families have reinforced that it is best for the child to be raised in 2 parent families. Next best would be extensive and regular involvement with both parents; these children do almost as well as those in 2 parent families. From study after study, the only time a single parent can match the results of a 2 parent family is when there they have very high income.
Clearly what's in "the child's best interests" is regular and significant involvement with both parents.
Now, what about when the other parent is a jerk and will mess around with their emotions? That gets tougher to call IMO, because non-involvement raises abandonment issues as does inconsistency. Some studies have suggested that involvement, even with a jerk, is better than no involvement... I suspect because "knowing" a jerk and dealing with the emotional fall-out from that is still bringing some benefit to the child.... there's some good along with the bad. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:28:07 AM | this is a real shame, the mother is definitely not considering what's best for her son.no child should be deprived of their loving caring parent whether residing with them or not.
as has already been posted,you will have to take her to court to acquire visitation rights to him and no judge will refuse you of this unless you are a proven abuser and even under those circumstances there would be supervised visits arranged.
you will of course be required to pay child support...in canada if you still refuse to pay support your access won't be denied..but you may do jail time and lose your license if you don't pay.
don't let her away with the head games she's playing. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:56:45 AM | Disagree all you want, but child support has nothing to do with a child being loved. The child doesn't care about the child support, he/she cares about having parents there that love them. I've heard too many people complain "Sure he paid his support, but who cares, he was never there."
Child support is more for the custodial parent than it is for the child. It's important, but it is nowhere near as important as the Saturday fishing, or the evening games of one on one. The father who pays twice his required support and fails to spend time with his kid, when compared to the father who can't pay a dime but is willing to bond with his kid, is by far the greater failure as a father. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 7:16:38 AM | ^^^^^^What a complete and total load of horse sh*t. You don't think a child cares about child support when dad is living high on the hog and mom is barely able to keep a roof over their heads? Which happens in a lot of cases because the guys quit jobs before they can garnish wages. There are many ways around the system for those that wish to do so.
Just as there are women that do not use the money for the kid. One Christmas my stepson came with shoes that the upper was separated from the sole of the shoe. His toes, well, a pair of flip flops would have been about as adequate, and even in Texas, winter is sometimes actually cold. Or they remarry and have a stress free life because child support on top of two salaries puts them into a higher income bracket. But you know what? The system is better than it used to be when the majority of single moms footed the bill for everything because the courts and society did not pressure the guys to step up. The children were the ones that suffered the most bereft of dad and a decent standard of living.
Children are not stupid. When a parent does not want to pay child support or when mom wants more because of greed rather than trying to take care of the child, the child is well aware that they become a commodity with a value of X dollars a month. I work my *ss off, my X pays more support than most men, but my children are well aware of how their lives changed when he was 'asked' to leave. He has unlimited access to his kids and yet showed up for only the last football game for each of his boys this fall. If he didn't pay a dime, he would still have unlimited access but I am sure that the kids would also notice how much life sucked living at grandma's. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 8:29:49 AM | Unfortunately, you will have to go to court to gain access to see your child. Welcome to the Canadian Judicial System, what you can expect is; the judge to tell her to smarten up which she will most likely do for a little while, then it is back to court and the judge again will slap her wrist and it will go on and on. I hope it doesn't go down this road as I have seen many a friend of mine be denied access and the court system simply give the mother a slap on the wrist. It's disgusting the way the court system works.
As for child support, the op said nothing about it and his concern is about obtaining access. Access is not tied to child support in Canada as the two are mutually exclusive. There is a whole system set up for the collection of child support but nothing to ensure access to our children other than going back to court. This needs to be changed so that real penalties like those imposed on ncp who do not pay support, suspend their drivers licenses and if it continues then put them in jail because in my opinion denial of access is a form of child abuse. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 9:02:29 AM | sounds like he's trying to say, better a father spend time with a child than pay child support.
Child support enforcement is a way of life. It stems from necessity, or hungry neglected children.
Some men have the mindset that they are giving the ex the money and she blows it on whatever she wants. In my reality, I haved worked my butt off, taking care of children, while working, sometimes, 2 jobs. Things got better after I graduated from college with my nursing degree. I now make $29 an hour, working 30 hours a week. EVERY dime I make goes into the children, one way or another. Groceries, health insurance. our home, utilities, even my car, because without the car I cant work and provide the basic necessities. My ex didnt have a clue what it actually takes to raise children. Thinks the $56 he is suposed to pay every week puts us on Easy Street. He should try paying $900 a week like I do. It is only this year, my sons graduate, and Ive started a 401K for me.
I hear stories from men, about ex's not allowing them to see their children. I never did anything like that. I always played fair, and wouldnt say anything negative to our sons about their father. Time did tell, though. Times when money was tight, they wanted something and asked, "what about the child support?" after years of taking the brunt for his lack of parenting, I quit covering for him. and said "sweetie, daddy hasnt sent any money for a couple months" or the visitation---daddy had a date, so he couldnt come and get his boys. funny how those dates and missed support seemed to go together. Hes used every reason in the world. I, however, would get charged with neglect, if I am not there when I am suposed to be.
I had the unfortunate experience of dating a man, who was very resentful of his ex. They had a son together, and she wouldnt allow him to see the boy. He had to pay support all those years (he is grown now) but was not granted visitation. The boy came to see him when he was 20 years old. He was in college, and needed some financial assistance. He father owned his own business, took off on vacation anytime he wanted, afforded anything he wanted. But he wouldnt give his son, the one he said he loved all those years, and would do anything for, any help with college. after 15 years the boy saw his father. But the father didnt say why he couldnt see his son all those years, just blamed it on the ex and the courts. what in fact, actually happened, he had been selling drugs, years ago, the girl was trying to leave, with the boy, and the father beat his ex so bad, and with his criminal history, he was never granted visitation. Unfit parent. but he still was forced to pay support. I have to wonder about any man, who doesnt have visitation rights, or who doesnt covet those rights when he has them. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 9:32:02 AM | | nope in manitoba they do not go hand in hand you can per say be a deadbeat dad and not pay but still see your children and if the other person doesnt let you see them they can be held in contempt,unless there is a custody issue then you are in your full right to keep the child away until custody has been established.i am going throught this now | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 9:55:16 AM | "I have to wonder about any man, who doesnt have visitation rights, or who doesnt covet those rights when he has them."
It's not that men don't have visitation rights, allot of the men that I knew had specified visitation but the were consistently denied access. The access was not denied because of histories of abuse or anything like that. The courts would do nothing but give lame warnings to the custodial mothers to not do this again. And the cycle would continue.
Yes, child support is needed in order to give the children food and a roof over their heads. But as I said above there is a whole system in place to support this because it is important. When fathers are denied access and there is nothing done about it clearly sends the message that they are not important in their children's lives.
Since you gave an example, my best friend has not seen his son since his son was 11, he consistently paid support and each year that he earned more he paid more. When the son entered university this year his ex sued him for the cost of the university, living expenses for his son while he is away and child support. As per his son's e-mail that he received his son wants nothing to do with him, but hey dad pay up. So, not only is he paying for 70% of the cost of his son going to school but he still pays support to his ex for a child that lives away from home for 8 months of the year.
Or the other case. A friend of mine went back to court on 11 occassions just trying to gain access to see his daughter. Each time the judges would give her a warning and the cycle would continue. The system put in place for child support though was swift and efficient at going after him when he fell behind in his child support. The reason he fell behind, he was terminally ill and could not work.
This is why we need a similar system to the child support enforcement to enforce visitation with real consequences. It was recommended in report "for the sake of the child, custody and access in Canada" but unfortunately the minister of justice caved to pressure from women's groups and other federal ministries and the recommendatins were sent back to committee never to be heard of again. | |
|
| children and the right to access
Posted: 3/18/2008 10:49:02 AM |
nope in manitoba they do not go hand in hand you can per say be a deadbeat dad and not pay but still see your children and if the other person doesnt let you see them they can be held in contempt
Wow held in contempt......and if you do not pay your cs you can be placed in jail....
so if you are not allowed your access you get to pay for another lawyer while still paying your cs and you hope that at one point you will be able to establish a meaningful relationship with your children? Please tell me you are not saying that being held in contempt is the same as having your drivers license suspended or being put in jail?
2005-10-07
Docket: FD 96.02.00058
Parallel citations: (2005), 197 Man. R.
Steel, J. (as she then was) ordered specified access for Christmas of 1996. The mother threatened to cut off access if the father didn’t sign their jointly-owned house over to her.
Access became increasingly difficult in later 1997, and the children were not made available for Christmas of 1997. In June of 1998, on the father’s motion, Duncan, J. approved a consent order which specified access every weekend, one full week per month when the mother was working, and mandated three months written notice of any intention on the mother’s part to relocate from Brandon.
Difficulties over access continued, and in December 1998, again on the father’s motion, Schulman, J. specified Christmas access and fined the mother, finding her in contempt of access provisions.
Regular access resumed, although the mother would change holiday times at the last minute. She also refused to send any supplies or clothing with the girls, so that J.L.M. had to do without her glasses at access times, and the father had to supply the girls’ physical needs when they were with him. This is a practice which continues today.
Access proceeded relatively uneventfully until the summer of 2001, when, despite the summer month he had been promised with both girls, he received no time with K.D.M., as she had gone to Alberta to visit her biological father.
In December, 2001, the father had access with both girls for the first week of Christmas holidays. He was shocked to learn that, without notice or consultation, the mother, with the girls, was moving to Bowsman, Manitoba to a farm property near her parents’ residence on December 29, 2001. He was given no address or telephone number.
Although he had some telephone contact with the girls in early 2002, he had limited physical access to them. On February 7, 2002, DeGraves, J. ordered the mother to return the children to Brandon by March 15, 2002, when he granted leave for a viva voce hearing in this matter.
The mother did comply with the order to return, and access was to resume. However, for at least two months after the return to Brandon, K.D.M. refused to visit the father and was rude, insulting and hurtful to him. J.L.M. came some of the time. The mother’s evidence is that she encouraged the visits, but the girls were bitter with their father for having ‘forced’ the return to Brandon. However, I do not accept this evidence of encouragement, in the light of other evidence including the mother’s evident pleasure at the girls’ refusal to go with the father, her own refusal to send overnight supplies with the girls, her occasional absences at some pick-up times, her picking fights with the father at other pick-up times, and her statements over the telephone to K.D.M. later that summer.
The father went back to court, and on June 10, 2002, Menzies, J. fixed summer access and ordered non-removal from Manitoba.
Following that order, access resumed. Although the girls were distant at first, the atmosphere between them and the father settled down over time. The father had summer access as ordered, and regular weekend access continues now. The mother sends the children in dirty clothes, with no clothes change, overnight bag or glasses.”
Wow 6yrs of having to go to court to have access upheld.....ans she was fined once........and what was the cost to the ncp who had to return to court how many times...and pay all the lawyers fee's on top of the cs.....and you wonder why some fathers give up as they do not have the resources or the heart to be able to continue this battle. | |
|
|
|
Home
login 
