|
|
|
|
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/16/2009 7:51:17 AM | And before I get my azz chewed let me explain like this...
You and I go in on a house...you are late paying your half of the bills so I cover it. But damn it! That was my new purse money!!! Well when you finally give me your money are you going to be pissed because I spent it on a purse but you GAVE it to me for bill money?  | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/16/2009 11:02:03 AM |
Shelter (and the associated expenses keeping a roof over their head), food, clothes, daily school expenses.
In Canada, in addition to "Child Support", we also have S.7 (special and/or extraordinary) expenses which include things like daycare, prescriptions, dental, eyeglasses, orthodontic treatment, sports and recreation, expensive (i.e. overnight) school trips...and probably some other things I've forgotten.
hey Ulster you forget to also mention spousal support to maintain the quality of living when you had a wallet to take care of you. How is it being without work? Or are you collecting it already?
Sports and recreation are a crock as many children who come from families who are together are unable to pay for these things yet the custodial mother who may have a second husband is willing and able to pay for the costs..and stick it on her bill or extraordinary expenses...not to mention being able to deduct the daycare costs from the custodial parents income yet not for the non custodial...not to mention the CCTB which arrives each and every month for the custodial parent......but it is not like many custodial parents to forget how they can drain income from the non custodial parent...
So how is the job hunting going....much nicer place to be unemployed...custodial parent as opposed to non custodial parent? | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/16/2009 5:18:04 PM | Tealwood, I don't collect spousal support. For your information, I was the one who was in a better financial position when the children's father decided we were separating. At any rate, that's how he made it appear on paper. When I was employed, I had a bigger pay cheque than he made from his business.
For many years my investments have been helping, but they are becoming depleted. I don't believe it's advisable for anyone to judge another person until you have the facts. It is unfortunate perhaps that your experience has left you somewhat... disillusioned with life.
I believe the OP was asking about child support, not spousal. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/19/2009 3:15:10 AM | Sports and recreation are a crock as many children who come from families who are together are unable to pay for these things yet the custodial mother who may have a second husband is willing and able to pay for the costs..and stick it on her bill or extraordinary expenses...not to mention being able to deduct the daycare costs from the custodial parents income yet not for the non custodial...not to mention the CCTB which arrives each and every month for the custodial parent......but it is not like many custodial parents to forget how they can drain income from the non custodial parent...
~Tealwood~
^^^^^^^WOWsers!!! bitter much?
I suggest you call up rev canada and ask for a rebate on half of the extra ordinary expenses you refused to pay for BECAUSE you couldn't claim them! 
Honestly....your too much...I bet it hurts your back to kiss your own ar$e the way you do....it is a talent... | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/19/2009 6:02:20 AM | Haven't read any of the thread but I'm posting anyway.... I had to laugh the other day. I got a shiny letter in the post from the agency here in Aus that determines child support. It was printed on gorgeous paper, and had a motto which indicated they were THERE for separated families ( I recycled it.. cant recall the stupid effing thing properly) ... it informed me that whatever CP my ex used to pay would cease when she turns 18 in November. The next week I got ANOTHER letter calculating the exact amount I would be due from the end of the financial year til her birthday... yep!!! $0.00... in black and white! I have never ever recieved a penny from her d!ckhead dad in 12 years even when he worked (briefly... sacked for turning up to work off his face) or when he inherited quite a lot from his dad when he died (Alzheimers- was awful).
Sorry- I do get a bad case of sour grapes when I hear that there are great dads out there who can think beyond themselves and actually give a crap about not only their kids, but their kid's mum and how she is coping. I even leant my ex money when we split (never repaid), bought him a tv, helped him move... So I do apologise to those who wonder HOW CP should be spent but after a decade of never seeing a penny... you can guess my feelings. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/19/2009 1:13:06 PM | My wife who is 36 years old left me for a 26 year old guy. Oh, we have FOUR young children under theageof 6 (1 plus triplets). I did EVERYTHING I could think of to save the marriage. I put up with things no man would do if he did not have his kids' well-being 1st 2nd and 3rd in his list of priorties. I humiliated myself for the sake of trying to hold the family together.
Nothing worked.
Sooooo . . . per Illinois law, I must give 40% of my salary PLUS daycare, totalling 60% of my salary to her for the kids.
I'd be living with my parents forever if it were not for the fact my Dad did quite well in the 90's as a computer programmer saving companies from y2K catastrophe.
So, I go from a dream house in the burbs with my wife and kids to a tiny townhome without my kids and making 40% on the dollar.
Good times, good times. . .
So, while I accept that "supporting the child" is awfully vague, the idea that I could in any way be "cheap" about this is sad.
I mean, seriously, what isnt "supporting the child"? You could justify most anything. "uh, ya, Mommy needs time away from the kids since this is so hard, so I'm going for a weekend getaway to Vegas. What? You want Mommy to go crazy taking care of all these kids on my own?"
Um YA. You WANTED it this way. You left me.
So, I think if the man is willing to save the marrraige and clearly was willing to work it out, and the wife basically just gets rid of the guy, it's hard to sympathize when the cries for more money come out.
Sell the house, get a much smaller one, didnt you think this was gonna be devastating to your "lifestyle" no more "girls nights out" which were really just "dates" for you affair?
okay, I'll stop ranting, I dont even know if any of this was pertinent to the opening post, but I assure you, I got royally screwed over in recent years. Not every guy is in the wrong.
Until you have had your 3.5 year old boys crying, "Dada, why wont you stay? When will you come back forever?" when you're putting them down to bed on your one night during the week with them, and the honest answer to the question is "because your Mommy is having a severe mid-life crisis and kicked out Dada for a 26 year old guy" you have no idea how hard this can be on the Dada who wanted to grow old with his wife and kids.
good times, good times.
but no, I'm a lot of fun really. really.
I can have a sense of humor about this since if I were to take it too seriously it would rip me apart. She is a good Mom, but a miserable wife who I feel just may regret what she did in the future.
okay, I'll stop now | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/20/2009 9:45:09 AM |
^^^^^^^WOWsers!!! bitter much?
I suggest you call up rev canada and ask for a rebate on half of the extra ordinary expenses you refused to pay for BECAUSE you couldn't claim them!
Honestly....your too much...I bet it hurts your back to kiss your own ar$e the way you do....it is a talent...
LOL Lizzie girl..I have no problem with my back....or perhaps my moral or rational judgement as I always worked on the premise that what should be available for one parent should be available for the other. I also realized that being willing and capable of working full time I had a better position of paying those bills....and realizing that I was living a little more modestly than my ex felt she was entitled to.
And unlike some i do not feel sports.. rep sports which are well recognized as being very expensive as being a necessity. Now in my case I never lost out on the deductions as I was the custodial parent and I in fact paid all the bills. so it was never a requirement to call Revenue Canada on that issue.
But there are some things that they have had to go without or the school bills were delayed until I could fit them in. And I happen to know a few athletes who were unable to play or register because the parents were unable to pay or finacially afford the costs. That is the simple realities of life...where both parents are working and despite the combined income they do not have enough that they can afford the costs and travel associated with the rep sport.
Rep sport is not and should never be considered a necessity
Now daycare and before/after school care is extraordinary expenses where only the custodial parent is enabled to claim the costs. In fact it has often been suggested the custodial parent uses the full deduction for monies spent by both parents effectively claiming what should be claimed by both parents. But rest assured Lizzie I was collecting the full amount because i was the only one paying. Would it be unfair to suggest you were one who claimed the full amount even if you were not paying it all?
But then technically speaking it is acceptable?
Extraordinary expenses like braces have been claimed on both children...but no problem as I used that deduction and was the only one paying that cost. Again I believe only the custodial parent is allowed to claim these expenses but i stand to be corrected. Since i was the only one who paid that question never actually came up. So I never had to call!
But from time to time there have been things I was unable to pay. But that is life is it not? Even though one works full time one cannot afford to do everything they would like for their children. And then some do not work full time....and they are unable to do everything either.
So Lizzie......one can kiss their backside all they want as they lament how bad off they have it...while others simply go out and do for themselves without expecting others to compensate for their own inability or unwillingness to work and succeed.
But then I always hated not being able to do for myself and hopefully I am teaching my children the importance of actually earning their own lifestyle and not having someone augment what they are unable to pay with their own efforts.
And Lizzie...they both played rep sports...one is still playing and is doing very well in multiple sports and will be playing at a high level when she goes to University for 4yrs. But those costs were something I felt was important and something that I did not feel should be shared by my ex who did not hold the same sense that it was important.
So no I would not suggest I am bitter. i consider myself ever so lucky in that i know the money i spend on my children go directly to the children unlike so many other guys who pay to their ex's who spends as she deems appropriate. And then after paying the appropriate cs the custodial simply mandates extrodinary expenses as they choose or as they suggest is appropriate. How many recieve cs and then stop complaining about it not being enough or never stop asking for more to pay for everything else they choose to stick
You need money I was always taught you go out and earn it on ones shoulders. Unlike what i might suggest some who have earned it on their back.....since you brought up back first....or as i was once told by a father..you pay for it upfront or you pay a much larger bill for years after...... | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/20/2009 1:04:21 PM |
From the way I have always viewed it ... unless otherwise dictated by legal documents, it is meant to be spent on anything that pertains to the upkeep of the child ... clothes, food, roof over their head, medical expenses, sports fees, heat, water.
I can even see that it could be spent for a doggone lawn mower. If you have children that need to play in their backyard and it needs to be mowed ... then it could be spent on a lawnmower.
And here is a prime example of what's wrong with the system. You can justify any use for the money and tell yourself it's OK to do so as long as you even very loosely tie it to the children.
I have a backyard and I don't have children, it still requires mowing though.
I know too many men who pay child support and their experiences with rationale like yours are the reason I will never have any children of my own. I will marry a woman who already has children, but I will never give her children. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/20/2009 1:12:58 PM | KoacNation,
Yours is one of those situations where the biases towards women in the court sytem gleens through...
Did you attempt to get joint custody or is that not common either in your state?
All I can say is try to enjoy the good times with your kiddos and leave the rest for karma to handle... | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 3:32:49 AM | When I asked my lawyer about that (fighting for primary custody) he laughed, he said, "I'd be happy to take your money, but all her lawyer has to say is, "he's a man, he's on anti-anxiety meds (the triplets constant screeching will do that to ya) and he's on blood pressure meds, do you really want to give him 4 young babies?"
so I saved my money.
I try not to be bitter about the system, I need to save my energy for better things.
thanks for the kind thoughts | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 9:48:45 AM | KoacNation
They aren't going to take the kids away from her if she's a good mom.. You said yourself that she is. But you could probably get them for longer then 1 night. Lots of men are screwed over, I just hate that it is extrapolated out to the majority of women. Most of us aren't like that. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 9:56:59 AM | Men may get screwed over sometimes in custody situations, but what's really screwed up is that a man doesn't have to exercise his visitation rights, but if the mom denies him acess when he has a court order she's held in contempt.
For instance a man could go without seeing his child for 6 months, then show up out of the blue. If he has a court order and she refuses acess, she can be held in contempt. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 10:44:40 AM | It's amazing to me, i was raised with very modest means, and these things that kids absolutely HAVE to have i didn't even grow up with in my house with 2 parents lol.
Sports? If they were free i could play, enrollment fees weren't part of my parents budget, it was THAT tight growing up.
I think it's difficult to decide what children "need". Half the stuff i've seen on here, overnight trips, vacays with school were never an option for me, and i don't feel deprived not having them.
I think when custody stops being 4 to 1 in favor of women, men won't be so angry about this anymore. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 10:45:39 AM | | None of this matters. Paying child support is a legal obligation. It is enforceable by law, and men who do not pay can be sanctioned and even jailed. It doesn't matter what they say. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 11:22:55 AM | There will always be a struggle to define the answer to the OP's question. Therefore I could put forward my comments, but they aren't much different from some of what has been said already.
In my case, my STBEX has said openly that she needs the child support to pay the bills while she returns to adult education. So she will be using the money I give her in child support to pay rent, utilities, food, etc. I suppose the children need a place to sleep when they are at Mom's and need food to eat, but she also benefits directly from the child support; as does her live in boyfriend. In a perfect world every penny handed over for child support would directly relate to child costs such as clothing, food, activities, etc.; but that won't ever be the case.
Summary - Pay what the court has ordered, apply to have it increased/decreased if you feel the circumstances have changed enough to justify a change, ignore what he/ she spends it on and if you see the children not being provided with the basics of life when they are with the ex take him/her back to court to regain or increase your custodial time. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/21/2009 6:37:21 PM | | Child support is meant to support the child. Someone should talk to my X . My daughter lives with me full time and we have 50/50 custody. He has not had to pay one dime of child support since we have been divorced because she is supposed to live one week with him and one week with me. After 3 years she turned seventeen and was tired of this arrangement . She caught the bus to my house and refused to go with my X when he came to pick her up. He has not offered one dime of child support and keeps taking me back to court to pay 64 dollars every 3 months for her orthodontis bill. Which was a cosmetic not medical that he is supposed to pay for. He is supposed to pay for half of her college expenses and upkeep it is in the divorce decree. He doesn't do that either. He has abandoned her and refuses to talk to her. He didn't get her a graduation, birthday, or Christmas card. He works for the KCI Airport police. His name is Bob. All I ever asked is that he be a dad and be there for her if she needed anything. I didn't ask for child support in the divorce because I thought at the time that he would support her without the court. My fault. I didn't file for support because I didn't want my daughter thinking that I only wanted her to live with me for child support. We have had our gas and water shut off because I couldn't afford it, but now we are doing fine. We made it without him and will continue to make it without him. I don't know how you can treat your only child the way he has or the mother of your child that you were with for 31 years. My daughter works and goes to college but she wants little to do with her father. He has made that bed. He will have to make reparations somehow but she is not very forgiving of people who have done her wrong. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/24/2009 4:12:39 AM | So Lizzie......one can kiss their backside all they want as they lament how bad off they have it...while others simply go out and do for themselves without expecting others to compensate for their own inability or unwillingness to work and succeed.
~Tealwood~
Sooo....your bitter and angry?....AWESOME!
You need money I was always taught you go out and earn it on ones shoulders. Unlike what i might suggest some who have earned it on their back.....since you brought up back first....or as i was once told by a father..you pay for it upfront or you pay a much larger bill for years after ~Tealwood~
^^^Interest can really be a **** y'know!! Get some help dude....your a little to angry to pull off the responsible, concerned and caring parent routine.... | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/24/2009 8:52:53 PM | [I'd love to see the day when women have to start paying CS and alimony as often as men do and see how much you all like having someone else control your bank account. I think the day is coming, and I welcome it. Of course, I'm also sure that when that day arrives, the laws will finally change.]
I have often enjoyed your posts, as they speak of intelligence, but this one compels me to comment, even at the rick of argument. We will see that day when we see the day that (more) men are just as willing to take REAL responsibility for their children on a daily basis. Before you attack me, I am well aware that there are many men who would like to take a bigger part in their children's daily activities; I am also aware of their excuses for not doing so, none of which amount to taking any responsibility for same. My point is that the (valid) argument that things haven't changed all that much works both ways. Women don't pay alimony and/or CS as they are most often the lower half of the wage equation and the children are more likely to reside with them (in most cases, without argument). As far as CS, you'll not convince me of anything other than the fact that the custodial parent is far more likely to spend in excess of state mandated percentages of their income on their children than the non custodial parent.
Of course, there are many exceptions, on both sides, but let's be honest here. It is most often convenient, for both genders, to blame the other for their not spending as much time with their kids as they should, or not being able to afford something.
From what I have seen, decent mothers (and fathers) with custody would have little problem accounting for how they spend the CS they receive, as child related expenses easily exceed half of state guidelines. For me personally, I question those who speak of the custodial parent as someone who "drinks or drugs the money away". If that is the case, why not fight for custody? Please don't waste our time with how unfair the courts are; they take drug & alcohol abuse VERY seriously. If you are willing, for any reason, to leave your child in the care of one who is unfit, you are just as bad!
The notion that receiving child support is akin to controlling someone's bank account is preposterous! It seems to me that this issue could be put to rest merely by an accounting of spending for one's children. I have no problem with that. Perhaps actually making a move in that direction, would be more productive than merely using particular personal experiences to make general statements aimed towards one gender. Just my two cents.  | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/24/2009 10:59:24 PM | Westpark2 wrote:
What is your opinion of 63% of custodial mothers having cs agreements versus 38% of custodial fathers having cs agreements.?? Does this suggest that one gender is looking at the revenue stream more than the other?
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-225.pdf
It may suggest that one gender has favourable access to support than the other. I have been a member of a "resident with custody" single dads forum for about a year and the first question asked by a new members is usually... "can I apply for Child Benefit or any other financial help?"
Most men in the position of being a single resident parent are treated with suspicion and disdain, so as a result, the schoolyard female coffee morning clique does it's level best to shun you and the local authority does it's bit by redirecting vast government offers of funding towards female issues and demonising men in separation. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/24/2009 11:23:15 PM | | Well Iam now recieving child support for my two year old son, and honestly I have a savings account that I put it in. I figure by the time he is old enough to need a car or what not it will be there for that. I dont necessarily need the child support but i do feel that his father should contribute some way. I have known the father of my son for about 6 years, and we were friends first. So going after child support wasnt something that i wanted to do right away. I told him if he would just be in my sons life then i wouldnt worry about the money. But when his partying and friends took priority over our son, and he bailed on my sons first birthday party I filed papers. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/25/2009 7:26:40 AM | Women don't pay alimony and/or CS as they are most often the lower half of the wage equation and the children are more likely to reside with them (in most cases, without argument).
Yes, which is because of the choices women make more than anything. More women really should get thier careers together and well underway before squirting out kids.
I don't have the info at hand, but there is lots of info out there about the difference betewen how many more custodial male parents work full-time compared with custodial female parents. The difference is significant.
There is a higher percentage of women who default on their CS payments than do men.
Women state openly that they will not support a man financially in a relationship. I really can't see how they're gonna be too happy giving their ex money after he's gone.
Even though it's a pretty ridiculously unrealistic scenario, tell me how you'd like it if you were the sole breadwinner for years in your marriage while hubby stayed home, but was unhappy, decided to bang someone else, left you, gets custody the kids and half of everything money YOU earned had bought during the marriage.
Then HE can demand spousal support, collect the tax benefits for the kids, and collect up to half of YOUR hard-earned money until the kids reach the age of majority.
Oh, me-o-my, oh Joy! Oh Bliss!
Yes, yes, you and every other woman out there claims that she'd happily pay.
Bullshit.
And, yes, the person who makes less DOES have a significant say in the money-maker's use of his income if the guy sticks around.
The collector can do things like my ex does, work part-time then quit her job on a whim because she needs some 'time for herself', and, well, the new boyfriend, of course. She didn't do it this time, but she could hit me for a significant amount more money. She doesn't even have to get out of bed and she collects over $15,000/year tax free between the CS I pay and CTB.
I have the kids half of the time and work full-time and always have.
My ex is far more typical than you and many women want to believe.
So, yeah, I look forward to the day when that cohort of 60+% of post-secondary graduates who are female, AND all those self-proclaimed strong, independent women out making all that money begins having to pay out to their exes like men have had to....
... and, I STILL contend that the laws will change when that happens.
Cheers. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/25/2009 7:34:39 AM |
Yes, yes, you and every other woman out there claims that she'd happily pay.
Bullshit.
Oh I agree. I would be just as pissed as any man would be and it would be just as hard to see that money come out of my check, But if the option is paying something or having a warrant put out for me I would pay. | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/25/2009 7:40:56 AM |
Oh I agree. I would be just as pissed as any man would be and it would be just as hard to see that money come out of my check, But if the option is paying something or having a warrant put out for me I would pay.
Yuppers, just as I, and most men, do.....
 | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/25/2009 8:57:49 AM | Big pacific..
Child support is intended to give the child the same QUALITY of life they had prior to the break up. The system is not perfect and I know it doesn't always turn out that way, but that is it's intention. If the child is participating in sport prior to the break up then sports money is part of the child support. If you did not pay for that while together then child support won't cover it. It has nothing to do with the parents and their ability to live and everything to do with the child and their quality of life. ( I do NOT think there should be extenuating circumstances unless there truly is a NEED for extra such as a child get really sick and has tremendous medical bills, or truly needs therapy, bootcamp or something like that.) If a person is living within their means then child support being taken out of their check should not put them on the streets (again this is how it is supposed to work, i understand there are problems with it).
I think alot of people needs to step back and reevaluate what is needed versus what is wanted. I go into a lot of peoples homes (married and single) and can't believe all the extras they have that they think are necessary.
/ soapbox | |
|
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 9/25/2009 9:06:06 AM | | it for food for them and to help with expenses and for you to save for their college. it's not meant for your car, house or clothes for you with your new boyfriend. if you didn't have kids you'd need a car, a house, and clothes anyway. strictly and totally for the children. a few states now are requiring the woman to submit expenses to exactly what she spent that money on...we need more of that. | |
|
|
| Page 13 of 15
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 |
|
Home
login 
