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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:06:31 PM | david,, you were right, arrears were not mentioned in the op. they werent even part of the thought. i refer to maintenace that is ordered and paid, and what is percieved as "what its meant for".
i have heard men grumble that its not supposed to go for bills other than those directly related to the child(ren). if its outside of the specific desire or need of that child, its not supposed to be spent on these things. I am just trying to understand what logic goes into the line of thinking that says rent and heat and food isnt directly related to the child. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/18/2008 6:07:19 PM |
Why not talk about a budget regarding the costs to raise a child and talk about what you should contribute and what he should contribute?
I know in my own case what i contribute and what he contributes. I can honestly tell you i pay way more than he does to raise our kids. To me they are more than worth it.
I suggest that woman love to add everything including the kitchen sink when adding up what a ncp should contribute to.
I suggest some men are so bitter and controlling that they would like a receipt for the toast their kids ate for breakfast.
What is your opinion of 63% of custodial mothers having cs agreements versus 38% of custodial fathers having cs agreements.?? Does this suggest that one gender is looking at the revenue stream more than the other?
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-225.pdf
My opinion on this is...either men cant be trusted to pay support without an order. Or maybe women are more apt to go after what their children are entitled to.
which is a tad bit better than your inference that woman are money hungry goldiggers who just want the money. Just more of those myths to keep the women hating live and well. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/18/2008 7:03:27 PM | | I didn't get support for years, I have only been getting it for the last 4 months. It actually goes for alot of the extras the kids weren't previously getting. Their dad has never sent them a gift for xmas or birthdays etc. He has been making 2 payments a month for the last 4 months, I always buy them a special treat when the first arrives from him, they are obsessed with webkinz so it goes to that, it also is used to cover school materials that I previously couldn't afford, such as the new micoscope I bought them. Lastly it covers things like the new spring coats/shoes etc. I would have bought them anyway, and have all these years, but his payment means they can have a better quality coat that will last a couple seasons as opposed to one etc I do not get extra for activities nor did I previouly when I paid for daycare etc. He has now said he doesn't care if I use it to take a vacation without the kids, for the last 7 years I have covered all expenses on my own with no help from him. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/18/2008 10:38:08 PM | This is the funnestist thing I've read about support ..
An interesting thought that I just had regarding child support was, what is the difference in expenses between what the custodial parent pays and what the ncp pays.
What are the cost differences in the households;
Rent - both have houses - and most ncp's have rooms for their kids - so no difference there
Heating - no difference between households
Cable - no difference between households
Phone - no difference between households
Food - difference here since it depends on how much time they spend at each house
Clothing - usually one parent buys the clothes, so yes there is a difference here.
Gas - maybe a little but not much of a difference
So, when it comes right down to it the only real difference is food and clothing if the ncp has a room for the child or rooms for the children.
What's interesting is that the ncp incurrs the similar costs for rent, cable, phone and gas but does not get support for it.
Okay, I'll NEVERever get a penny of support ... so it doesn't matter.
I've had 100% custody/care of my 6 y.o and as of a year ago I allowed my step-son, 15 , to move home...
Already had a 3 bedroom anyway..right....
Okay all utilities went up 60-100% PERIOD.
Hummmmmmm.....no extra house cost.... your kidding right??? You really don't think like that, do ya??????
Well beside the showers, lights, running in/out doors (heating/ac) going to waste with open doors/frig/freezer/dishwasher/lights/tv/video games/washer&dryer/recharging ipod/cell phone/camera/
Extra water for showers/clothes/dishes/ and cleaning... Yes 3 dirty more then 2.
More cleaners/toothpaste/bath soap/shampoo/deodrant/conditioner/toiletpaper/dish soap/laundry soap/trash bags.
Sheets/rugs/couch cushins/car/dishes/counter tops/finger printsetc/etc. Again 3 dirty more then 2. THIS means MORE time spent cleaning ( more cleaning supplies). More elec with hot water/etc
More things need fixing, that get broke... 3 people brake more then 2...More batteries. extra cell and bill. More wear and tear on households.More entertainment( six flags/carnival/movie/science center/etc...tickets)
I'm a self contractor(number cruncher) Living a modest lifestyle a 15-16 y.o. boy took JUST the household expensences(JUST SHELTER) up about 200-250 dollars each month.
He was my step-son of 10 years. i never questioned letting him move in.. No dad and myX (his mom)lives on the streets. However, it's costing me about an average of $1,000 a month .
Oh yes food and clothes are only halfthe difference. Life style/health/school and extra house expence are the other half.
But to stay on topic... If the child is taken care of and has a life style the SAMEf the custodial parent, then the support just goes into a general kitty..PERIOD...
Please OH PLEASE don't let me here the NCP cry about pay cut/lay off/sick/ car broke/or any other excuse......
Oh JOHNNY, don't eat/flush the toliet/take a shower/brush your teeth/dirty your clothes/ask for notebook paper/turn the light on to read a book/etc/etc/etc until So-N-So gets a job/healthy/back to work/car/etc etc etc | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:54:49 AM | | I wonder if anyone here has stopped to think that men make more than women do? I have never met or dated a man that makes less than I do, and out of all the people I know, nurses, medical office managers (of which I am one), teachers, there is only one couple in which the female makes more than the male. The males in these couples work at prisons, in factories, and for their family...so it's not like they are highly degreed. It's a fact that men earn higher salaries than women. The women in general get custody of the kids. And as was pointed out in the post above, the housing expenses are higher just by having people live there, not even counting what you actually pay for rent. So if you think any ncp should skate not paying 1/2 of what it takes to raise the children you are being selfish. Kids should not have to suffer because the parents couldn't live together anymore. But so often they do, and it is a shame. | |
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| But what do you do when????
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:18:35 AM | From a guys perspective!!!! Divorce sucks for both I think!!!! but what do you do when this money you pay in child support is not used or the benifit of the kids???? what if the lady that was in this relationship over the last 12 years of child support has only worked herself, "giving her the benifit of the dought " say two years off this twelve, has a track record of only getting with guys that also dont work and you see the car that was given to her at the bar on a regular basis and when you do see your kids if she is aint on a you aint seeing them kids trip, and when you do see them the first place ya gotta go is to the shoe store cause they need them, What then, and what then if you say O.K. Im going to take her to court and spend the money to do so then find out that even after twelve years she is appointed a FREE lawyer to fight you back with buy the same people that give her, her energy assistance, Hud, because she wont work and yada yada yada other things!!!! I aint crying here, but why is it in most cases that two people make a mistake and only one pays for it???? I fully understand that child support is needed, I also understand the guys point of view that it would be nice to have some kind of proof of what this money is being used for!!!! I have the utmost respect for any lady that will work to support herself and her kids, They are her kids too ya know and that means she also must make some sacrifices in her lifestyle when things fall apart!!! I know there are many women out there that do this. I also know many that suck the system dry, and thier ex dry ,because its all about them ya know!!! So what do you do when this is where you seem to be from a guys perspective  | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 5:25:46 AM |
This is the funnestist thing I've read about support ..
Okay, I'll NEVERever get a penny of support ... so it doesn't matter.
I've had 100% custody/care of my 6 y.o and as of a year ago I allowed my step-son, 15 , to move home...
Already had a 3 bedroom anyway..right....
Well I must compliment you on your situation. It speaks volumes about who you must be that your step son moves back home with you. I also have 2 children living with me one who is 100% and the other was about 80% but is seeing the ex more but is still under my roof more and I am still expected to pay all the clothing costs and all extra curricular activities.
The housing cost in respect to a ncp and a cp is fixed. If I was seeing my children every other weekend and every Wed the typical 35% of the month I would require the 3 bedroom home just like I have now with the having them the majority of the time.
Okay all utilities went up 60-100% PERIOD. Hummmmmmm.....no extra house cost.... your kidding right??? You really don't think like that, do ya??????[/quote So how do your utility's go up 60 to 100%...Now that is.....how did you put it??? Funny!! Well beside the showers, lights, running in/out doors (heating/ac) going to waste with open doors/frig/freezer/dishwasher/lights/tv/video games/washer&dryer/recharging ipod/cell phone/camera/ LOL Perhaps you need to get a recent appliance....like something within the last 25yrs as the changes between the cost of running an appliance with one person opening a door and 3 people will not change....60--100% Extra water for showers/clothes/dishes/ and cleaning... Yes 3 dirty more then 2.
More cleaners/toothpaste/bath soap/shampoo/deodrant/conditioner/toiletpaper/dish soap/laundry soap/trash bags.
Sheets/rugs/couch cushins/car/dishes/counter tops/finger printsetc/etc. Again 3 dirty more then 2. THIS means MORE time spent cleaning ( more cleaning supplies). More elec with hot water/etc Yes here are are differences but the original poster was talking about the difference of costs between the cp of 65% and the ncp of 35% where a number of the costs are already shared by both households unlike your home of 100%. But like some cp they only consider the added costs you mention in there home alone and reffuse to acknowledge the added costs you outline in the ncp home. I'm a self contractor(number cruncher) Living a modest lifestyle a 15-16 y.o. boy took JUST the household expensences(JUST SHELTER) up about 200-250 dollars each month. Well I applaud your occupation and what you have done. The original post regarding costs was done by someone who is an accountant I believe. So he does have a little appreciation of numbers and comparing values. Now myself being a commissioned sales rep i may not have the experience of the two of you regarding numbers.....but then cost analysis of what one does is important in knowing what one can or cannot do in respect to shaving the numbers to get a deal. Important is understanding fixed costs that one one would pay regardless of children being there 35% of the month compared to 65% is important. But yes you do have different numbers as do I with having the children more than the typical 65%. But i really would love to see how they cost 60 to 100% more. You must be using that new math we hear about? . But to stay on topic... If the child is taken care of and has a life style the SAMEf the custodial parent, then the support just goes into a general kitty..PERIOD... The child will be taken care of. But to expect the same lifestyle or demand the same lifestyle is crazy or stupid. One income stream coming into a household cannot compare to having two income streams. And equally important is having a decent or comaparable houshold when they go and visit the ncp house. But perhaps you are like some others who feel that the ncp should live in less than what they have an hide behind the mantle of Best interest of the child. Please OH PLEASE don't let me here the NCP cry about pay cut/lay off/sick/ car broke/or any other excuse...... You are right that these are lame excuses.....but when your pay goes up your cs obligations go up......so when your pay goes down you would not expect the same.... I always like the yardstick that measures the same for both parties. Upo until this year the biggest added cost I had to bear was before and after school care...which I paid fully on my own...but in most areas that is not part of cs but an additional add on costs. So yes I will agree that being the parent does increase the costs of your household. But being a custodial parent increases costs by 60%+ you must be kidding.... and 1/2 of the added costs would be your responsibility anyway...being a responsible parent? | |
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| But what do you do when????
Posted: 3/19/2008 6:22:03 AM |
when you do see them the first place ya gotta go is to the shoe store
sounds like maybe childrens aid should be called
I aint crying here,
sounds like you are whining though
I also understand the guys point of view that it would be nice to have some kind of proof of what this money is being used for!!!!
It is none of their business. as long as the lights are on and the kids are clothed and fed, you can bet your money is being well spent.
I also know many that suck the system dry, and thier ex dry ,because its all about them ya know!!!
sounds like you need to take some responsibility,and find a better class of woman to hang out with. | |
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| I her ya on the woman I use to hang out with!!!
Posted: 3/19/2008 6:44:13 AM | In responce to dream catcher!!! L.O.L. and you are right, I am wimpering a bit here The ones here that have taken the beating is the kids, and it seems it will continue for awhile yet. My choice of woman have sucked and they were my choices, so right again!!!! when your lover cant tell the difference between her birth control pills and a simple vitamin, somertimes unexpected things happen.L.O.L. and there you BOTH are. I Would not trade my kids for anything in the world, and trust me the calls have been made. and AT times thought I was making things better. but only made them worse when the other finds out who made the call!!! so I guess when you get into a situation that cant be fixed the guy should just pack up all his stuff leave and not be a part of thier kids life and just let the LADY do as she pleases???? Oh but be sure to pay the child support too because she needs it!!! L.O.L. I wonder how many of these people here would think??? What a piece of S**T ,run off and acts like he dont even have kids, i havent used that opton yet. and dont think I ever will, but besides the child support I pay for the kids to have cell phones so we talk and text alot. Bought the kid a truck to drive etc. Pay the insurance on this truck and plates!!! I can see already you feel only for the woman and also feel the guy was and is only a sperm donar and means of extra support!!! for those who will not even try!!!! I will try not to cry so much!!!! L.O.L. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 7:54:01 AM | It is payment for the non-custodial parent's portion of food, shelter, and clothing for the child. It is usually based on the wages of the non-custodial parent.
SHELTER - For instance I am a single mother of a 16 year old boy. I have a 3 bedrom house. If I were not a mother and it were just me living alone, I would buy a 1-2 bedroom house. The electric bill is higher if you have a 3 bedroom house, therefore my house payment and electrical is higher than it would be if I lived alone. The child support is deposited into my account and I then pay for Food, Shelter, and Clothing each month by paying my BILLS... My son's home and keeping it warm is categorized as SHELTER.
FOOD - Now let's talk about groceries...ever tried to feed a 16 year old boy playing football that is in the 1000 lb club in football (he can lift lots of weight)? A teenage boy's stomach can be a bottomless pit. Since my son hit the age of 13 he is hungrier. He is growing and is in athletics at school. This money paid by his father once again gets deposited into my account to reimburse me for the extra expense of groceries. If I lived alone my grocery bill would be 1/3 of what it is now.
CLOTHING - Blue Jeans don't grow on trees for free. I guy my son blue jeans each fall when it gets cool weather. This is a NO-BRAINER.
OTHER - Well you must have Food, Shelter, and Clothing in order to survive, but even the healthiest of people must go to the doctor everyonce in a while. Most small children will get an EAR ACHE....etc...while growing up and Child Support doesn't include enough to pay for those lil trips to the doctor sometimes, plus lost wages for taking off work to take them to the doctor and lost vacation time if the other parent is not available to take them to the doctor. For instance my son's dad is living one state away right now and cannot take him to the doctor. Sometimes divorced couples can have stipulations written in their divorce decrees to fairly split the Medcial Expenses or Insurance Coverage...
Well, I am an accountant and these are just a few examples of what the Child Support Dollar helps to pay.
ANY QUESTIONS? | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 8:20:43 AM | jadegreen: "It is payment for the non-custodial parent's portion of food, shelter, and clothing for the child. It is usually based on the wages of the non-custodial parent."
jadegreen, I only have familiarity and direct knowledge of how 2 states do it....Michigan and Tennessee. In both cases, the wages of BOTH parents are taken into consideration. Wages of both and number of children being supported are plugged into the computer, formula applied and voila, here's your obligation sir/ma'am.
~ds~ | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 8:23:22 AM | Same here, I'm an accountant also (you know the other number cruncher joseph).
Jada;
The interesting thing above regarding housing is that you say you would only have a 1 -2 bedroom place if you lived alone. What I am comparing is the cost of if you were the NCP you would still need a room for the child just like the CP. If I didn't have my daughter there would be no need for me to have the extra room that I have also. But she needs her own room, just like she has at her mom's place.
The idea of comparing what you would have if you were single as compared to being a parent are mutually exclusive and therefore not comparable.
I guess the assumption made in the above posts is that the ncp will be living in a smaller place, not have bedrooms for the children and therefore will not incurr the additional costs. Is this the perception that most CP have or is the indicative of most of your situations?
As for food I have a 15 year old daughter who stays with me half the time. When her and her friends are over my fridge looks like one of those scorched earth things afterwards and then the ask if they can have pizza or something else for dinner.
Sam;
As for men making men making more than women, a number of studies have been done recently about that very topic. The reason given in these studies does not come down to equality but tenure or experience. Since a woman takes time off to raise children, which can be anywhere for 1 year to 10 years, they lose valuable years of experience in the workforce. When it comes time for promotion or moving up in ones career unfortunately it is due to experience. If I am looking for an accountant and one has 5 to 10 years more of experience than the other candidate, which one do you think I would choose to hire? I don't see this as inequality but a reality of business and the manner in which it operates that unfortunately women lose valuable years of experience when they are bringing up the children.
Having said that I have always wondered with the new economy, allot more working from home, consulting with flexible hours if there is way to mitigate this. If you have decided to take a few years to raise children can you still work from home a few hours per day that allows the person to still gain experience and maybe as a consultant, very well rounded experience that allows the person's career to grow. Just an idea. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 8:44:16 AM | Just here to enlighten, not inflame.
But i really would love to see how they cost 60 to 100% more. You must be using that new math we hear about?
Here is 2 plain and simple facts.
Last month I became eligable for a propane discount .from $110 a delivery to $103.
In 2006 I used 8 tanks. In 2007 I used 13... Giving TO you that I will deal with this mornings price for comparison. 8 time 110= $880...13 times 103=
an increase of 459 on 880..= 52.2%
Luckily the electric bill gives kwh statements for current month/last month/ and 1 year ago.
feb 07 /1041 kWh........feb 08/1,385 kWh...= 33.1% increase
jan o7/1302 kWh..........jan 08/1,887 kWh..= 45% increase
dec 06/ 1106 kWh.........dec 07/1,493kWh..= 35% increase...
an 3 month average increase of 37.7%
Example for the frig.... When we go out for 2 days...i.e. six flags/ocean/etc The bottom shelf will have thin ice on epen glass. Now when we are home temp stays between 40-45... Only the boy and I open the frig. Since a 16 y.o 190 lbs boy eats as much as myself and my 6 y.o. The frig is open TWICE as much food coming out and food going in....You do the math.. My daughter is not allowed in the frig when an adult is in the house...(99.997% of the time). If you think I hang there with the door open Just a lookin?!? .....well.......
Same with outside...between after school and dark/weekends/summer. The boy goes in and out at least hourly....Summer worse... Remeber your parents saying...WHAT?,AM I HAETING THE WORLD....LOL
Laundry... I do about average 4-5 loads a week. The boy is responsible for ALL his wash. In which the style is 3X( ganster baggy LOL) He does 3-4 loads a week.
increase almost 100%
I could go on and on. and maybe a more fair number is more like 60-70%, but I have my step son 24/7...100%..
Where do I factor in football.......entertainment or school?... 4½ months of driving EVERYDAY?.. No not the lame $172 special insurance, $75 physcial, $120 equipment......BUT, I mean the almost 2,000 extra miles on the truck, at a modest .42¢/mile....Hummm $840????
Lastly, while you are playing the other side of the fence Wsetpark2...
When I am book Keeping.... Where do I place the Over time and worked weekends, and babysitter ,extra travel , extra payroll taxes, and such when I HAVE to work an additional 20 hours a week to cover the extra expense of another child in the house???
Should thatNOT be added to household expenses???..Forget my extra time... I do that for the LOVE of seeing my son making the winning block in the last season's game, or getting a 100% on algebra test (or for the love of god seeing him cross the stage with a sheepskin in hand). BUT the ACTUALLY expense....the writing the check to the electric company for the extra $59.46 THIS month..
How do you factor in the child breaks a new 26 dollar frying pan, drops the eggs pulling out the frig, or wrestling with sister breaks photo frame on coffee table...??? Are they not extra incurred expense???
So yes I will agree that being the parent does increase the costs of your household. But being a custodial parent increases costs by 60%+ you must be kidding....
Yes , I hope I did not bore you with the arithmitic lesson , but I'll stick with the OVER all minimum 60% increase...
and 1/2 of the added costs would be your responsibility anyway...being a responsible parent?
Arrrrg.... but you are missing the point...It's not 1/2 extra... NCP's that do not have there children 50% of the time or are not paying exactly 50% of actually cost are not only getting the $ discount , but the time discount...CP's get the double wammy... The extra cost, and the extra time to take care of the child,and... work the OT/weekends/ evening to make up the cost
Couldn't find where I posted last year...maybe deleted thread...
Here's the perfect solution..... Add EVER single expense of the child for the year
then...... devide by 8,760 hours(1 year) ........ then we have the cost/hour of child, and SPLIT it 50/50...PERIOD
Then do the math for the hours the child was in the custody of the parent with the MOST hours, minus the expenses paid during the year, and the lesser parent cut the check for the difference...That simple
BTW, did the child show up in the mailbox/dooestep with a tag..Here I am world?
I'm amazed at how NCP get a pretty much flat (money manageable bill) , and are so blind to the day to day cost change of a child. Yet jump up and cry.... I lost my job...the breaks went up in my car,......my washing machine broke.... can little johnny just eat air until I get on my feet...... boo-hoo-hooo
This all happens to CP's ...ALSO, PLUS the child slips going out the door to school, and you have too miss a day or 2 of work and go get them x-rays and 5 stitches......NOW!!
Don't like the household/child book keeping????
Get 2 extra jobs, hiring a couple lawyers,spend 50K or more,prove to the courts you are the better parent, and get custody of YOUR child 24/7.....and you do the math...LMAO
Yes it can be done...... would you like me to fax you the paper work to support this option?????
Just food for thought.....(oh, and little Johnny  ) | |
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nero1
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Joined: 1/30/2008
Msg: 40 | |
| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 9:27:57 AM | | I think the interesting thing is that when people really want custody, the receipt of child support becomes secondary. They are worried about the welfare of their kids with the other parent. Period. It's those who clambour for child support with paltrey reasons of "I'm better with the kids" etc, that motives for custody become suspect. With the amounts awarded and the ludicrous 60/40 rule in Canada, child support really has become a prize to be won and is ruining post-separation parental relations. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 9:29:03 AM | I'll probably get a little backlash for this but when my daughters father complained about his $200 a month child support payments I shut him up quick by telling him that if he hadn't run home to mama and actually stuck around when I became preggo then I would be getting ALL of his check. Mwahahahaha  | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 10:37:15 AM | "Pull out the fold up coach camping in the living room with DAD twice a month thing going on..."
So then this is your impression of what the living accomodations are like at the NCP's, interesting, for the most part I have found different that the have just as many bedrooms as the CP. But our perceptions are made up of what we see everyday.
As for the accountant issues your brought up, I'm CPA as I am in Canada, I'm what is called a CGA. I'm am quite sure my collegues in the US do allot more and provide more service than what you outlined above since most accountants I know present monthly financial statements, are the main driving force in most of the budgeting and forecasting in most businesses, help clients with minimizing taxes by applying the rules that are there and go further into information technology consulting, helping with finance and in my last job my boss was not only in charge of all of the accounting for almost $1 billion in revenue but also an area called Risk Management (which involved the company self insuring through its own captive insurance company up to the first $200 million). So, we kind of do a little more than just bookkeeping. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 10:46:18 AM | | Joseph- Being an accountant myself in the US- we do a lot more than what you outlined. There are several clients that our firm has power of attorney of. Meaning the clients bills (even household) come directly to us and we pay and handle said bills. Maybe your accountant just sucked or you didn't want to pay the money to have someone else handle your finances. | |
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| I her ya on the woman I use to hang out with!!!
Posted: 3/19/2008 11:29:34 AM |
when your lover cant tell the difference between her birth control pills and a simple vitamin, somertimes unexpected things happen.
This is why it is always a good idea to take some responsibility,and get your own protection. quit blaming women because you didnt take responsibilityfor your own actions. If you didnt want kids you should of took the initiative.
so I guess when you get into a situation that cant be fixed the guy should just pack up all his stuff leave and not be a part of thier kids life and just let the LADY do as she pleases????
you have no control over what someone else chooses to do. You can only control what you do. If u feel your children are being abused in any way, you need to keep contacting childrens services.
I can see already you feel only for the woman and also feel the guy was and is only a sperm donar and means of extra support!!!
Actually, i agree men should be awarded 50% of the custody.Unless of course there are abuse or violence issues.
I just get really annoyed when i hear men say women are just looking for a gravy train. anyone with any smarts at all can tell you that most single parents live either at, or just above the poverty line. I dont think anyone is getting to rich from child support. In most cases child support is needed just to keep food on the kids table. Single mothers are not looking at child support as a gold mine. Men who tend to **** about the amounts payed and wanting a receipt, are usually just bitter and want to control the ex.
Most judges know this, so then we get to listen to the men complain about skewed court systems. This is all just window dressing for men to justify not taking responsibility for their own actions. It is easier just to say women are looking for a free ride. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 11:54:40 AM | Wow, I apologize if I pulled a quill from the ruffled feathers of an accountants tail feathers.
There are several clients that our firm has power of attorney of.
The things you forget from account 101 and 201 on the way to a business degree(yes my grammar is not college level...sorry)
So, we kind of do a little more than just bookkeeping.
My point, accounts here don't avail theirselfs to too much book keeping on MY level. and the above sounds alot more like an business counsultant...then a CPA
Anyways, I guess the service being to he11 and a handbasket in USA, my bad experiences with accountants, must be due to the fact of my deplomancy and small fry gross 325K + company.
Moving on..... Acutally geographically I live in a no crime/no housing assistance/no traffic light /VERY low SP household zip code. I only know of but a CP/NCP story here and there on a personal level...
Let's be honest....almost ALL CP get help from the government if the NCP isn't bringing the books to a FULL balance.... If I wasn't so hard-headed I could go after 600-700 dollars a month for my step-son from the state.
I am around contruction for a living ..............and deal with the SP Daddy Bullshyte lack of responsibilities of the offspring they brought here and can only wonder aloud as I am taxed at about a 75-80% of gross(whole nother thread...LOL)how much is going to subisdized income...
Pull out the fold up coach camping in the living room with DAD twice a month thing going on..."
Coupled with...... "Can you pay me off the books, cause the ****e is gonna spend the money on herself attitude"
Of course this is the same arena that thinks the 225-250/hour I'm charging is My Pay minus their payroll...
.......I'm use to explaining ins/taxes/equipment/advertising/paper- work/permits/repair/main./sales/ALLLLLLLL the responsibilities...NOT just having to show up for the day...
Since I have no issues with a NCP and/or money coming from anywhere, nor the need, I thought I'd just shine some light on the hidden cost of a household.My ear only gets bent with the boo-hoo's of CS.
I always say, you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes first.....
At least you have their shoes, and too far from them, if you piss them off enough and they want to take a swing at ya...... | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:10:49 PM | "I'm amazed at how NCP get a pretty much flat (money manageable bill) , and are so blind to the day to day cost change of a child. Yet jump up and cry.... I lost my job...the breaks went up in my car,......my washing machine broke.... can little johnny just eat air until I get on my feet...... boo-hoo-hooo"
Car breaks down, washing machine etc... - not a valid excuses for not paying child support
Job loss - its interesting that here in Canada with regards to child support when I get raise the increase in child support is retroactive to the day that I got the raise. If my pay went down due to down sizing or being laid off, if my child support payments went down as a result it would be from the day that the court order goes into effect. The inequity in this type of situation does bother me. Along with if I get raise I pay more, if I get laid off I can't pay less as my income will be inputed since this is the level that I supposedly can earn. Again, an inequity the courts are saying, when you get an increase pay more, when you get laid off or are sick (ie: long term disability) the payments don't go down. So, to me it isn't boo hoo its more of an inequity in the system.
One thing though with reviewing your costs above, you have pointed out how much your costs have gone up such as electricity, gas due to rate increases but wouldn't the NCP's household also be hit with same increases. Now I am not talking consumption but rate. So, if you are paying more due to the rates going up a fair comparison would be to net your increase by the increase due to rate changes that the NCP received. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:18:21 PM | "Last month I became eligable for a propane discount .from $110 a delivery to $103.
In 2006 I used 8 tanks. In 2007 I used 13... Giving TO you that I will deal with this mornings price for comparison. 8 time 110= $880...13 times 103=
an increase of 459 on 880..= 52.2%
Luckily the electric bill gives kwh statements for current month/last month/ and 1 year ago.
feb 07 /1041 kWh........feb 08/1,385 kWh...= 33.1% increase
jan o7/1302 kWh..........jan 08/1,887 kWh..= 45% increase
dec 06/ 1106 kWh.........dec 07/1,493kWh..= 35% increase...
an 3 month average increase of 37.7%"
If I have interpretted your posts correctly your step son came to live with you about a year ago. So what you are saying is that the above increases in propane and electricity year over year are completely attributable to him coming and living with. There are not factors that have influenced these costs to go up? | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:29:27 PM | The way I see it...
1 bedroom house is XXXX/month
3 bedroom house is XXXX/month
Difference is to be divided by 2
Food for one
Food for more
Difference is to be divided by 2
etc.
Let's not forget ex has kids sometimes and it costs him for food and gas.
Not here to make him broke.
We decided on an appropriate number...add 1/2 to dental, sports, activities or big costs.
Both win!!! We worked on solution...no lawyers...IMAGINE! | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 12:58:56 PM | In your post above you stated that your costs have gone up by about 60% or more as result of the kids living with you.
If I break that down though
Lets say for example your cost prior to the kids is about $4,000 per month
If we increase the costs by 60% that would mean and extra $2,400 per month
Let's say you were collecting child support from me for the two kids $1,200 per month, according to the child support tables in Canada at my salary.
So, it nets out about even, except in Canada, the CP if they are single and not living with a new partner can claim the children as dependents which amounts to about a $2,200 additional tax refund per year($183 per month), plus there is the child tax credit about $100 per month, plus the GST rebate $50 per month (of course depends on income). In total, you would receive including child suuport ($1,200+183+100+50) = $1,583 per month, which means your net cost for the children would be $817, where as my net cost would be $1,200 plus what ever costs I incur per month when they would be with me.
But this is dependent on the NCP having a high enough income so that the child support would be $1,200 per month. I would say though to be fair not allot of CP are receiving that amount of money but I could be wrong.
I know in your case you are not receiving any child support so the extra cost is 100% yours. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 1:00:47 PM |
If I have interpretted your posts correctly your step son came to live with you about a year ago. So what you are saying is that the above increases in propane and electricity year over year are completely attributable to him coming and living with.
Correct...I broke it down in units and increase since he moved in (end of april o7?/first of may 07?)
Propane is based on 100 pounds...or 23.8 gallons /delivery...and in 07 was actually $77/ delivery...I could have done the 5 units over 8 which would have been an increase of 62.5%
kWh is TRUE usage.... The cost goes up and down, and cost with what part of the day you use it..
So basically, I am standing my ground on usage of the propane and elc. was direct cost of the step son moving in...Since I used 9 months on the propane, and 3 on the electric to get a someone matchinatical means, seems fair..and there are NO other factors (animals/guest/live-in GF, no over nighters...lol).
It is what it is...While the actual mortgage, house ins, and property tax are un effected, The household expence for supplies and maintaince are very noticable..TP/ paper towels/garbage bags/toothpaste/shampoo/dish&laundry soap/etc etc
Again, I would never turn my back on a CHILD I raised for over 10 years, I was a little surprized at the extra cost above food and clothes... I'm positive I can dig through SP post here at POF 2 years ago, when I was aurguing the opposite.....
That damn 1 mile walk
Now chief I noticed you glossed over the question of where do I add the expense of the extra hours of work????
In other words, NOT only the actually increase of the child care , but what about the increased cost it takes to make the money?,,
Oh great account, what leger say, does the extra 25 dollars of gas I sent going to work 2 days to pick up the extra household expenses go in????
I'm waiting...because I'm not digging up mason jars full of silver dollars to pay the bills...LOL | |
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