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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 1:09:22 PM | The bottom line here is that people have to look at things as if the other parent was not even here.
I mean look at it this way, yes your getting child support and it goes towards what ever, but what it the other parent has passed on? you wouldnt be getting anything (in most cases) right? And you would still have to pay for everything for your child correct?
So why not look at it that way, and just think to yourself, yes I am getting help for blah blah blah but if they wernt around I would have to pay everything out of my own pocket which is my job as a parent. I mean yes I do get support now for my daughter, but for 2 years I didnt, and I didnt complaine, I didnt even want support because I have raised her on my own that long money wise that it didnt make a diffrence really weather I got it or not, I just looked at it like I was the parent and I had to do what I had to do to raise her.
I am sorry but the one's that say "He owe's me" you are so wrong because he doesnt owe YOU he owes his children. With my support 50% of it get's spent on what she needs, and the other 50% goes in an account for her for when she is older. What she does with it she does with it. It is HER money not mine no matter how you look at it, I dont see in my court paper's where it talks about CS anywhere does it say "this money is for the mother to use as she see's fit" I see that it states "this money is to help with supp0rting the child.
Yes we both made the child, yes we both should pay for the child, we should both support the child, but you know what? if they wernt here cause they passed on you would have to do it on your own anyways so rather then say "he owes me" say "i'm lucky to get it and lucky to have some help". It is not about who pay's more, it is not about who has what or who pay's what out, it is about the child having everything they need and want. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 1:22:35 PM | | If the man has been proving to be the father the child would be eligible for his social security benefits until they are 18 or I believe 21 if in school. And the social security benifit is usually quite a bit larger than the standard child support amount. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:11:15 PM | "Now chief I noticed you glossed over the question of where do I add the expense of the extra hours of work????"
I didn't gloss over them because the extra costs you incurr as a result of working more are offset by the extra revenue you bring in. So, if you didn't have the kids you wouldn't have to incur those expenses but also would not earn the extra money.
"Oh great account, what leger say, does the extra 25 dollars of gas I sent going to work 2 days to pick up the extra household expenses go in???? '
Well firstly I would appreciate you not being either condesending or belittle my profession. I spent a great many years in school and working extremely long hours (except when I am on vacation like this week finally, actually still working from home) like all accountants do to get to where I am today. So, I am asking politely for the rude comments to not continue.
The $25 would be what is called an opportunity cost or a cost incurred as a result of the children being there with you. It would go under the ledger of extra costs incurred as a result of having the children.
In the US, as I am not familiar with your tax system, do you get to claim both of the children as depedents on your tax return and how does this effect your either net taxes payable or possible refund that you would receive? | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:14:45 PM | "If the man has been proving to be the father the child would be eligible for his social security benefits until they are 18 or I believe 21 if in school. And the social security benifit is usually quite a bit larger than the standard child support amount. "
How much does someone get in the US, in Canada the child tax credit is on a sliding scale, so the more you earn the less you get. Our government actually put through a child care amount that parents can be eligible for, but it was only $100 per month and typical of government they have you include it in income, so if you make anything over the poverty line essentially you have pay most of it back. Got love governments and taxes. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:33:18 PM | Well, I get $200 dolalrs a month in child support and even going on the very low end I suspect that I would get probably $800 if my daughters father killed over right now. I know my roommates wife died when there son was young and he recieved around $550 a month until just last year and that was from a woman who maybe worked part-time jobs during christmas every now and then and was just a few years out of high school.
Can't give you an actual number but everyone here is sent a statement every year of the income you have earned yearly since you've been working and the SS amount that your spouse or spouse and child would receive.
PS- Rock on fellow accountant!!! :) | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:40:18 PM | I am just trying to understand what logic goes into the line of thinking that says rent
you women all assume that the poor single mom pays rent ..bla bla bla..what if she is paying a mortgage with the money she got and the place went up 140% in value,and she stands to make a couple hundred thousand on the property investment ??,the system is broken and was put together to deal with the poor women who pays rent ,,to stay off welfare ..not the men who are paying according to those ridiculous tables..when the expense money nets a profit of a couple hundred thousand does the man who supplied all the funding have grounds to claim this or do his children ?once they turn 18? nope.. its the gold diggers money..this should be challenged ..the children have to wait until she dies to get there money if there is any left ..i say scrap sole custody its an obvious cash grab ..and its not the child's best interest ,,its in the mothers best interest and its become obvious they just want money ..bring in equal custody and scrap child support ..and lets see some equality that will stop this extortion with the courts blessing.. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:49:21 PM | Vally:
the system is broken and was put together to deal with the poor women who pays rent ,,to stay off welfare ..not the men who are paying according to those ridiculous tables..when the expense money nets a profit of a couple hundred thousand does the man who supplied all the funding have grounds to claim this or do his children ?once they turn 18? nope.. its the gold diggers money..this should be challenged ..the children have to wait until she dies to get there money if there is any left ..
First of all why is it that you think it is only woman on welfar? there are also men on welfar so remember that. Aslo the tables are not ridiculous, they are set for a reason, if you dont like what you are having to pay out because of what you are makeing then get a diffrent job.
Also why is it that you think woman are gold digger's? and why do you seem to think it is her money? it isnt.
I am starting to think that you are bitter about your ex and think that because you got pushed around and so forth that everyone is the same. But guess what it is not just woman that are the way that you discribe. There are men out there as well that do this as well so remember that.
It anger's me so much to always hear that woman are gold digger's, trust me if we were gold digger's we would be getting a hell of a lot more then what we get to SUPPORT OUR CHILDREN! | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:52:16 PM |
what it the other parent has passed on?
Most seperation agreements make the non custodial parent take out a life insurance policy with the custodial parent as the beneficiary.
I didnt even want support because I have raised her on my own that long money wise
whether you wanted it or not, isnt the issue. A child has a right to be supported by two parents.
It is not about who pay's more, it is not about who has what or who pay's what out, it is about the child having everything they need and want.
In a perfect world this would be ideal,as you can probably tell from this thread, this isnt a perfect world | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 2:55:59 PM | Um...I pay a mortgage. That was never even taking into consideration when our child support was set. Which I wish it was seeing as he lives at home with his mother and has no bills and as people stated before even though I was already paying the mortgage the cost of living their did go up after having a child. Dishes, laundry, and good lord the cleaning supplies. lol.
I am not and never have been on welfare and yet he has threatened to go out on disability to get out of paying child support.
He weasled off owing me close to $400.
Now if I took all this "experiance" and judged all men by it who would be the golddigging, welfare getting worthless piece of crap?
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:03:57 PM | when the expense money nets a profit of a couple hundred thousand does the man who supplied all the funding have grounds to claim this or do his children ?once they turn 18? nope.. its the gold diggers money..this should be challenged ..the children have to wait until she dies to get there money
no women tried to answer what we should do with the profits made from investing child support ? many men complain about the lack of control they have over this support money they pay out for there children ,,and i am saying it wasn't meant to invest .we cant provide the apartment we have to give them cash ..so we cant invest our acomidation money ...so what can we do about getting that money earned into the children's hands ??if a mans earnings go up the courts consider this and he pays more ,,if the payments put out net a profit because of an investment ,,this should also be considered and the money should go to the children at 18 ..
like I said this set up is 1950's and broken ..
note to Nevaehs_mom
.. check your meds and stay on topic .. its a forum,,respond to something other then what you are imagining in your head..
it is about the child having everything they need and want.
this is not true ..if you are a sucessful man they want more money ,,if you become sucessful after getting rid of a bad one they want more money ..and get it ..its all about women getting set up nice ..and our courts helping ..remember that dentist from alberta ..how about the beatle..its far from about the childs needs its a cash grab ..open your eyes.. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:16:42 PM | I'll answer it, Mr. He-Man Woman Haters Club,
If I got any child support at all....and if I could comfortably pay my bills with my wages, I would like nothing better than to be able to invest any hypothetical child support in a CD or something that would accrue some interest and plunk it all into their college educations. Question answered sufficiently? | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:18:21 PM |
its the gold diggers money
Perfect example of the bitter controlling man i spoke about earlier
i am saying it wasn't meant to invest
who are you to decide that. If i want to take all of the child support i receive and invest it in an education fund, that is my right.
when the expense money nets a profit of a couple hundred thousand does the man who supplied all the funding have grounds to claim this or do his children
Unless your name is on the mortgage u dont have the right to jack squat.nor should you. The money you pay to support the children is for the cost of raising them. If your ex lived in an apt. would you expect the landl;ord to share any profits he made, with you. with your line of thinking no wonder you come across as bitter and angry. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:25:15 PM | I only started getting cs recently. I had already started RESP's as well as trust accounts for my kids for their future. If I knew he was going to consistantly pay I would put most of the amount into those accounts. For the time being I use the support to purchase items the kids need and stick with the payments I was already making into those funds without his help.
Not all CP are gold diggers. I have sole custody because my ex willingly gave it to me. HE doesn't want to see the kids and really doesn't care what I do with the child support becuse he knows a) I don't ask for much and b) he didn't pay for years so I am used to doing it all on my own. Once I can see he is going to stick with paying support I will increase the amount I put into the kids accounts monthly.
As for cp with sole custody being gold diggers, I agreed to cs at a rate of 10K less than he makes annually and also never asked forsection 7's which I am supposed to get for them. Instead of the $800 a month I am getting for them I am supposed t be getting between $1200-1600 depending on what activities they are enrolled in. My goal was never to make him suffer and be destitute, it was simply to get the minimum my children are entitled to to ensure they have the best life they can and not have to miss out due to a lack of finances. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:31:15 PM | | dreamcatcher you are going to do well investing your child support money on some property that is in your name .your very proud of yourself ..i wonder how your children would do if they go after you for there % of the family home you bought with there child support money ..so they can also get into the market after they turn 18 and have to find a place to live .. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:36:24 PM | Well at least her children won't have to be supporting her in her old age, who is that fair to? And whose fault would you find that to be?
Why we can't just live and let live I'll never understand....each family is different in their needs. I am not condoning the Mothers who are out at the bar spending every penny they have, including their child support check....but I'm not condoning letting your kids live in substandard housing just to tighten the screws, either. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:36:41 PM | I have a concern when the money that is supposed to be for the children goes to increasing the custodial parents lifestyle and not to the children. A friend of my parents phoned my parents a few months ago needing to talk. His ex was taking him back to court yet again fighting to get more child support (sometimes she is sucessful sometimes not) he was complaining that he has to pay child support for his ex step child and what bothered him more was that the money his ex claimed he should pay to support the child's lifestyle was actually going to increase his ex's lifestyle.
My parents told me their friend said that his ex will drive past his house in her brand new car and honk the horn. When they were married they both drove used cars and he still does. He visits his ex step child and while he would like to see the child he did not realize he would have to pay child support for him had he knoew that he would have not married his ex. Apparently the child is told buy his mother to tell his ex step father that his mom has more money to invest in her retirement savings and the child says his mother takes trips to Mexico or Jamaica once each year. The child no longer plays organized sports or takes part in extra curicular activies at school.
Some how we need to ensure that the money which is supposed to get spent on the child is actually spent on the child.
We also somehow need to pass a law heree in Canada stating that there can be no double dipping for child support and only a biological/adoptive parent has to pay child support. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:39:54 PM | | valleyjava, sweetums i work full time. The mortgage is payed by moi. Even if i were a millionaire,that still wouldnt absolve the ex from his financial responsibility for the kids. yes, i am very proud of myself. rest assured, i am polishing my golddigging abilities. i expect by next year to be able to fully retire. Thank god for those skewed cout systems. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 3:50:59 PM | What valley is trying to say is that part of the money, if you receive support part of it goes to the payment of the mortgage. Where live in Canada the value of properties have gone up as much a $200 to $300 thousand in the past few years. Because part of the child support money pays for a roof over the child's head therefore the increase in the value is something that you are indirectly investing in.
The issue is that although the NCP helps offset some of the costs of the mortgage payment through child support (ie: helping to keep a roof over their heads)neither the kids not the ncp (who helped pay the mortage) get to enjoy the benefits from the increase in value of the property when sold. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:10:33 PM | Okay,,, I already apologized to the accounts on this thread, but sometimes people get the hand thats called for...
BTW, I've been in the SP forms for almost 3 years, as YOU..
Okay, don't try for one i-otta and tell me you bring a a child into a a house and for one minute this household expenses are NOT going to go up with close relationship to the ratio of people in the house already...
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining???
A third person right off the bat increases will cost to roughly go up 1/3...duh?in a 2 person household.
To be FRANK, the back beedroom stayed closed when it was just my daughter. So that room was 20 degrees warmer in the summer and maybe 20-30 degrees cooler in the winter...period. So heat and AC actually o go up there also....
A extra person is 30 showers a month... thats more then a little when you started we just 2... Now if you were a single parent, and had 11 kids, yea, 30 showers added to the 360 might be a little...
Now I will give a seniro that is a little more elementary , and would appreciate a reply with alot less Bull Shyte then this...
I didn't gloss over them because the extra costs you incurr as a result of working more are offset by the extra revenue you bring in. So, if you didn't have the kids you wouldn't have to incur those expenses but also would not earn the extra money.
offset.....
Okay Page 47, problem 13 , accountant exam 1.
Okay... Ms Smith works a 40 hour week and because she recieves 150 dollars a week child support for her 8 y.o., she makes ends meet.
Then x (insert reason)________________ stops payment of said weekly child support...
Ms. Smith now picks up a weekend job for two 10 hour shifts at 15 dollars an hour for sat & sun working at local resturant..only 15 mins up the road..
Gross pay is $300.
Net pay is $215.45.
She now has an adjusted income of increase $15,600 a year... Could put her in a higher income bracket..
While your logic chef8471 that she now has erned $4.23/hr net on the parttime job to ....ummmmm as you say offset incurred cost, don't fly...
Here AGAIN is my question.....
Where do the extra expense go????? Do they not go to the care of the Child???
It was a direct correlation to the expense she incurred when the $650 a month child support stopped?????
a) the $90 Ms Smith paid for the 22 hours of babysitting?
b) the $25.20 in gas for the double 15 mile trip to work for 2 days??
Would not the $90,$25.20, and the $84.55 go Directly to the rasing of the child, because NCP stopped the $150/weekly payment?????
This is a very very relistic workable problem...is it not?????
Managing billions of dolllars this should be household finance 101,correct?
While that one was a NO brainer, what is the price tag Ms Smith gets for no longer having a weekend with her 8 year old , working two 10 hour shifts, and going $50.25 in debt weekly for each week she keeps the job,babysitter, and recieves no support check?????
Was that an easier question to answer where the extra $25 gas went???
Good point...
In the US, as I am not familiar with your tax system, do you get to claim both of the children as depedents on your tax return and how does this effect your either net taxes payable or possible refund that you would receive?
Yes, and it should drop my taxable income say about 5K...My bracket( which hedges me just over EIC, and such breaks ) will be equal to I'm ball parking ...... maybe $1,500... in benefits by having the child...
So.. That 12k a year aint so bad,NOW that it might really be 10.5K...
Again, my life is NO issue in child support/ custody/ vistation/ etc. Never in 2-3 years here can you quote me having a problem with my family finances..
Mortgage..........
Yes I picked up a house at an a killer price tag almost 13 years ago at 62.5K on a fixer upper in zip 21161, and market value TODAY around 345K
Of course .....
property investment...about 80K
property tax 1995= $795............2008 = $2,450
insurance 1995= $ 680................2008= $ 2,100
I'd LOVE to say my pay has increased well over 300% in the last 13 years...
BUT ..it hasn't | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:11:28 PM |
if you receive support part of it goes to the payment of the mortgage.
prove it. i pay my share of the costs to raise the kids,he pays his part. the mortgage is payed from my income. Most people with mortgages have to have a job. Try taking that one into a court of law and watch them laugh you all the way out of the courthouse.
even if this wasnt the case, and i used part of the support money to make the mortgage payment, so what. If i lived in an apt, he would still have to pay his portion to raise the children.
Why dont you and java go protest at city hall. i dont know. maybe you could burn your jock straps or something.Try to get a law passed that says no single parent should be able to own a home unless they are willing to give the ex part of the profit. We should also make it mandatory that all children should get to split in the profits of their parents houses, whether they are still together or not. They just might of used part of the child tax credit to pay a mortgage payment. I hope you realize just how assinine this sounds. i had alittle faith in you up until this point, but when you start speaking for an obviously bitter spiteful man like Java, i have to start questioning your credibility. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:26:33 PM | "prove it. i pay my share of the costs to raise the kids,he pays his part. the mortgage is payed from my income. Most people with mortgages have to have a job. Try taking that one into a court of law and watch them laugh you all the way out of the courthouse.
All the posters above have stated that child support is suppose to pay in part for the roof over the kids heads. So, you are saying that it does not in your case. I am assuming you receive support by the way.
even if this wasnt the case, and i used part of the support money to make the mortgage payment, so what. If i lived in an apt, he would still have to pay his portion to raise the children. "
Yes he would still have to pay whether you lived in an apartment or the house, what we are referring to is the increase in value of the property. There is actually a way to settle this though quite easily at the time of divorce couples can either leave their name on the title of the house or take their name off with the NCP being paid our for the equity portion at that time.
If the market is going to continue to be strong then it would be wise not to remove ones name from ownership of the house until it is sold. That way both get to share in the appreciation in the value of the house rather than being paid out at the time of divorce.
Of course with the present US housing market it should make for some interesting divorces because what if the value has depreciated since the original purchase. Not sure about that one. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:34:59 PM | but when you start speaking for an obviously bitter spiteful man like Java, i have to start questioning your credibility
i wasnt talking bitter at all ,cp's are unacountable for the support money they demand..many children that turn 18 get the boot or charged rent because moms not supporting anyone ..if this happens try and go after her equity she has earned with your money ..you might qualify for a % ..ask a lawyer ..first hr is free..child support is for supporting the children ..if its used paying a mortgage payment the house is an asset that they share intrest in now..based on the same principal as a commonlaw..who gets half of everything you acumulated while together ,,those kids paid there way with a mortgage payment .. pay up to the children now..but then if you lived in Kingston .. big prison town ,, houses arent selling well nor for much back there , 175,000 gets a nice century home ??,we are talking a different story here in BC .
.if you receive support part of it was claimed for acomidation and was spent on payment of the mortgage.
prove it.[/qoute] easily done ..you own a home ,,there is a paper trail at the bank .. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:36:39 PM | Joseph;
no point in responding to you since I have tried to be civil in responses and well you have been you.
I wish you well with your kids and your contracting business as I have heard that the housing market is not doing so well down there. We are even feeling it up here in BC since we export a large amount of our forest products to the US. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:44:56 PM | | I have been divorced 13 years and have paid every cent of the court ordered amount. having said that, I have always paid for haircuts school pictures not to mention graduation money, christmas gifts cars etc I could go on and on . It never bothered me . what did bother me was the fact she was engaged to a guy for several years and lived together. the guy had a few children also and she lived in his house, so my point is Im sure that when they sat down and budgeted, they included what was coming from me. Im sure I helped support his kids as well and also helped repair a roof and build a bedroom. so they have been broken up for a few years and he lost that house and she had to start over. I feel for the woman with dead beat dads, please dont be man haters because some of us did divorce and kept maintained our turn at the plate. | |
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| what is child support meant for?
Posted: 3/19/2008 4:47:26 PM | Chef, what you are forgetting is once that child support leaves the payers hands, it is no longer considered their money. it is the money of the custodial parent to raise the children as they see fit.
would you think if the ncp wants some profit, shouldnt they also be paying for half the maintenance and upkeep of the home, above and beyond the child support.
i know in my agreement, he took his pension, i took the house. he gave up all rights and responsibility toward the house. I dont phone him and say, honey the roof is leaking, give me half the money for a new one.
Just because someone put some of the support towards a mortgage payment, it means nothing, it is all part of the cost of raising children. it does not give the ncp any financial interest in the home. they would still have to pay their part whether the kids lived in a apt. or a car.
You can be bitter, and think you are entitled all you like, but once that money leaves your hands, IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY ANYMORE. YOu arent investing it in anything but your children. | |
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