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| | Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08Page 5 of 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) | Hands down Obama is a better speaker than the other candidates. I felt his speech on racism was well received by the majority of Americans who actually listened to it. Its a real issue that should be talked about on a mature and robust level.
I think we should consult zoologists who might be able to point out that being leary, even fearing, those who are different from ourself is instinctive behavior of the animal we are. We should accept that different races are naturally skeptical of one another. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 12:59:20 PM | Yeah, PocoLoco, I believe most of what the Rev. said is true.
And no, I am not especially "patriotic". America as an ideal of liberty and opportunity is very different than America as a reality, our government is not America and our military is not our government, either. These are all distinct. A bad government, which is what I consider we have now, can pervert America ideals and go against the wishes of most Americans, as this has, and also misuse its military power on foreign misadventures when diplomacy is called for ....doesnt make me unAmerican if I don't buy it.
Historically, we have done some terrible, terrible things.
Not so long ago, every black person born in America and all living here were treated as if they were not even human, just some cross between a man and beast and inherently inferior to white people, who were the "real" Americans. How many millions of people did that damage in their minds and hearts and souls? And frankly, if you believe that economic and other socioeconomic differences between whites and blacks is simply due to the actions of black people alone, nothing to do with environments, you believe they are inferior and treat them as inferior.
This country committed genocide on native Americans, we've nearly wiped out a whole race of people, and it started right after Colombus's second voyage. How many millions of them did we murder and steal from? How many of those who lived did we make their lives miserable? Yet, I grew up believing the Indians were wild savages who attacked peaceful, white settlers until the cavalry came in for the rescue.....on TV. We perpetuate the myth that native Americans were wild savages whom we were forced to destroy for our own safety, do we not?
The industrialists worked people like slaves .... 6 day weeks, 12 hours a day, housed like cattle ... and unions came in, busted by strike-busters and the police and the national guard ... injured on the unsafe job? You're gone, no compensation. Get paid in peanuts while the factory owner gets filthy rich? Organized labor struggled for a long time to better working conditions.......but for a long time, too, many, many people led miserable lives just to put a roof over their head and have a bite to eat ....and were exploited by the wealthy, who most often were in, about or of the American government.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki get my goat more than anything. We all enjoy the comfort that 'THE NUCLEAR BOMB SAVED LIVES IN WWII". Bullshit. We wanted to try those babies out, we wanted to show the world and put us up there at #1 bad boy with the ultimate weapon, and they were only "Japs". It is quite well-known that bombing those cities did NOT save lives or shorten the war to any significant degree. Japan was trying to surrender, it all hinged on whether or not their emporer could remain in power. So, we incinerate how many? 150,000 civilians? Since most of the able men were in the military, it was women and children and the old. We murdered them. And then gave another generation cancers from the radioactivity. Not soldiers, just plain Japanese people.
How did we get all the vast lands from Mexico or Hawaii or the Phillipines? A yard sale?
I won't go on, but there is nothing wrong with the truth or a country the searches its soul for its real identity and answers to what it has done. You can still love the liberty and opportunity of America and do that.
To wave a flag around and be blind and uncritical .... to me, that is more suited to Nazi Germany. Heil, Hitler! Not American .......not in the sense of John Adams or Ben Frankline or Thomas Paine or how this coutnry was ever envisioned. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 1:36:45 PM | Steven,
No doubt we have done horrible things. And not to justify them, but look at...
Japan, Germany, England, U.S.S.R, China, Cambodia, Israel, Rwanda, etc.
However, no country on Earth has done more for the black man than the USA. It is a unique situation that we have here. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 1:57:46 PM | However, no country on Earth has done more for the black man than the USA.
How true... things like slavery, segregation, lynchings, unethical medical experimentation, using them to fight wars and then denying them basic rights on returning home... yep, not many have done so much.
It is a unique situation that we have here.
An understatement for sure. Very few others would have the gall to do all of the above to another people and then crow about how good they have been to them or gripe about their lack of gratitude (except maybe S. Africa). | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 2:11:22 PM | atlantaman123, I don't care what other countries have done. It's always a copout to compare mine or our misdeeds with someone else's who is worse. The thing is: we don't cop to ANYTHING !!! We think we are the world's sugardaddies or Santa Claus who can do no wrong at all, ever! And to even talk about such things is high treason, UN-American! UN-patriotic! And reverse racist, to boot!
And if we can't ever confront the truth of things, we are condemned to repeat them.
As far as what we have done for the black man, I ask what we have done TO the black man. If you believe that black people are just as good and smart and capable as white or any other race of people, then you have to ask how and why blacks differ on socioeconomic scales than whites in terms of their environment and social standing.
If you believe they are inherently inferior and the cause of their own suffering, not as good and smart and capable as whites, then you have racist beliefs. So far, in our history here, there is nearly 400 years of doing things TO black people and maybe 30 of doing things FOR them.
Anyway, about Obama and change .... do we want or need to continue along the path we have as a country? There are deep, deep divisions .....left and right wings are so far apart on so many issues, black and white integration is pretty much frozen where it is, there are bigger issues, bigger fish to fry that affect ALL of us like what will happen to Social Security and Medicare, our planet, the shifting seasons that could wreck our entire agriculture, smog and pollution, shrinking dollars, recessions, and so on.....
Wer'e a very divided country right now and at home, pretty paralyzed. I think McCain is 4 more years of Bush and will polarize the country further and so will Clinton. Obama is our only chance to move things forward. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 2:15:07 PM | As a European I have been moved to read up on Obama as so much is written about him and he has the potential due to time and chance of being your next president .Its an absolute cert in fact . Interestingly....I can now see how he can make a good speech .If you can write a good book....a speech is pretty simple in comparison.
Americans maybe privy to all this information anyway.......but his "fame" has only just reached these shores .The Mail on Sunday (below ) is a very respected newspaper btw.And we are not dwelling on the content.........just in the way its told by him in his book and by others .The mark of a good speaker ...................................
London, Wednesday 26.03.08
A drunk and a bigot - what the US Presidental hopeful HASN'T said about his father...
Last updated at 22:52pm on 27.01.07
It is a classic story of the American dream made real: an impoverished Kenyan goatherd rising to become a brilliant Harvard-educated economist.
On the way he fights racial prejudice at home and corruption at work, survives the heartbreak of a broken relationship and, despite it all, leads the fight to rid Africa of its colonial legacy.
This extraordinary story is told by US Presidential hopeful Barack Obama as he recalls the life of the man who inspired him to political success - his father.
Mr Obama's book, Dreams From My Father, is flying off the shelves of US book stores, exciting and astonishing readers in equal measure. It is a bestseller, and no wonder - because the story just gets better and better.
Mr Obama is already Democratic Senator for Illinois. Now he is in the running to be the first black President in the country's history.
"My story is part of the larger American story," he declared in the electrifying speech that won him his Senate seat just two years ago. "In no other country on Earth is my story even possible."
Many believe Mr Obama is a serious threat to Hillary Clinton's hopes of becoming the Democrats' choice for their next Presidential candidate - and his lovingly written account of the debt he owes his father, also called Barack Obama, will do no harm at all to his Presidential hopes.
Indeed, by offering up a conveniently potted account of his personal history in this way, he might even have made a pre-emptive strike on those sure to pose the awkward questions that inevitably face a serious contender for the White House.
Yet an investigation by The Mail on Sunday has revealed that, for all Mr Obama's reputation for straight talking and the compelling narrative of his recollections, they are largely myth.
We have discovered that his father was not just a deeply flawed individual but an abusive bigamist and an egomaniac, whose life was ruined not by racism or corruption but his own weaknesses.
And, devastatingly, the testimony has come from Mr Obama's own relatives and family friends.
Charismatic and with movie-star looks, Barack Obama Jnr has managed to steal some of Hillary Clinton's most influential supporters in the two weeks since he entered the US Presidential race.
The 45-year-old lawyer depicts himself as a fresh voice for voters tired of the divisive rhetoric and self-serving ambition of established politicians on each side of the Democrat-Republican divide.
His campaign to become the first black President is inspired, he says, by his love of the country that allowed his father to triumph against astonishing odds.
Barack Obama Snr started life with the advantage of being able to read and write, but he also felt a profound sense of injustice. His father was a cook for British settlers in Kenya, who demeaningly called him their 'personal boy'.
Grandfather Obama sent his son to a missionary school but after completing his education, the youth could find little work except goatherding in his remote village of Nyangoma Kogela, in the roadless hills of Western Kenya.
At 18, he married a girl called Kezia. But Obama Snr was more interested in politics and economics than his family and his political leanings had been brought to the notice of leaders of the Kenyan Independence movement.
He was put forward for an American-sponsored scholarship in economics, with the idea being that he would eventually use his Western-honed skills in the new Kenya. At the age of 23 he headed for university in Hawaii, leaving behind the pregnant Kezia and their baby son.
Relatives say he was already a slick womaniser and, once in Honolulu, he promptly persuaded a fellow student called Ann - a naive 18-year-old white girl - to marry him. Barack Jnr was born in August, 1961.
Two years later, Obama Snr was on the move again. He was accepted at Harvard, and left his little boy and wife behind when he moved to the exclusive east coast university.
At the time, Ann explained to their son that his father had gone because his meagre stipend would not support the family if they lived together. But finance was the least of her worries.
Mr Obama Jnr claims that racism on both sides of the family destroyed the marriage between his mother and father.
In his book, he says that Ann's mother, who went by the nickname Tut, did not want a black son-in-law, and Obama Snr's father 'didn't want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman'.
In fact Ann divorced her husband after she discovered his bigamous double life. She remarried and moved to Indonesia with young Barack and her new husband, an oil company manager.
Obama Snr was forced to return to Kenya, where he fathered two more children by Kezia. He was eventually hired as a top civil servant in the fledgling government of Jomo Kenyatta - and married yet again.
Now prosperous with a flashy car and good salary, his third wife was an American-born teacher called Ruth, whom he had met at Harvard while still legally married to both Kezia and Ann, and who followed him to Africa.
A relative of Mr Obama says: "We told him[Barack] how his father would still go to Kezia and it was during these visits that she became pregnant with two more children. He also had two children with Ruth."
It is alleged that Ruth finally left him after he repeatedly flew into whisky-fuelled rages, beating her brutally.
Friends say drinking blighted his life - he lost both his legs while driving under the influence and also lost his job.
However, this was no bar to his womanising: he sired a son, his eighth child, by yet another woman and continued to come home drunk.
He was about to marry her when he finally died in yet another drunken crash when Obama was 21.
Mr Obama's 40-year-old cousin Said Hussein Obama told The Mail on Sunday: "Clearly, Barack has been very deeply affected by what he has learned about his father, who was my father's older brother.
"You have to remember that his father was an African and in Africa, polygamy is part of life.
"We have assured Barack that his father was a loving person but at times it must be difficult for him to reconcile this with his father's drinking and simultaneous marriages."
Said adds: "His father was a human being and as such you can't say that he was 100 per cent perfect.
"My cousin found it difficult when he came here to learn of his half-brothers and sisters born to four different mothers.
"But just as Africans find the Western world strange so Americans coming here will find Africa strange."
Far from being an inspiration, the father whom Mr Obama was coming to know seemed like a total stranger.
In his book, he attempts to put the best face on it. His father, he writes, lost his civil service job after campaigning against corrupt African politicians who had 'taken the place of the white colonials'.
One of Obama Snr's former drinking partners, Kenyan writer Philip Ochieng Ochieng says, however, that his friend's downfall was his weak character.
"Although charming, generous and extraordinarily clever, Obama Snr was also imperious, cruel and given to boasting about his brain and his wealth," he said.
"He was excessively fond of Scotch. He had fallen into the habit of going home drunk every night. His boasting proved his undoing and left him without a job, plunged him into prolonged poverty and dangerously wounded his ego."
Ochieng recalls how, after sitting up all night drinking Black Label whisky at Nairobi's famous Stanley Hotel, Obama Snr would fly into rages if Ruth asked where he had been.
Ochieng remonstrated with his friend, saying: "You bring a woman from far away and you reduce her to pulp. That is not our way."
But it was to no avail. Ruth sued for divorce after her husband administered brutal beatings.
In fact he was a menace to life, said Ochieng. "He had many extremely serious accidents. Both his legs had to be amputated. They were replaced with crude false limbs made from iron.
"He was just like Mr Toad [from Wind In The Willows], very arrogant on the road, especially when he had whisky inside. I was not surprised when I learned how he died."
Ruth refused to comment on the abuse charges when we tracked her down to the Kenyan school where she now works.
She said: "I was married to Barack's father for seven years so, yes, you could say Barack is my stepson.
"Barack's father was a very difficult man. Although I was married to him the longest of any of his wives he wasn't an easy person to be around."
Mr Obama has acknowledged that his father grappled with a drinking problem. But with a gift for words that makes Mrs Clinton's utterances seem stiff and stale, he has turned it into another component of the myth.
Drink, he says, like drugs, are one of "the traps that seem laid in a black man's soul".
Mr Obama claims that he, too, has been racially abused, even during his campaign for the White House.
His mother, Ann, decided that he should get an American education and sent him back from Indonesia to Hawaii, where he was admitted to a £7,000-a-year prep school, Punahau Academy, and lived with his maternal grandparents.
And while there, says Mr Obama, he was tortured by fellow pupils - who let out monkey hoots - and turned into a disenchanted teenage rebel, experimenting with cocaine and marijuana.
Even his grandparents were troubled by dark skin, he says in his book, recalling how once his grandmother complained about being pestered by a beggar.
"You know why she's so scared?" he recalls his grandfather saying. "She told me the fella was black."
Mr Obama says his soaring 'dream' of a better America grew out of his 'hurt and pain'.
Friends, however, remember his time at school rather differently. He was a spoiled high-achiever, they recall, who seemed as fond of his grandparents as they were of him.
He affectionately signed a school photo of himself to them, using their pet names, Tut and Gramps.
The caption says: "Thanks... for all the good times." He worked on the school's literary magazine and wore a white suit, of the style popular with New York writers at the time.
One of his former classmates, Alan Lum, said: "Hawaii is such a melting pot that it didn't occur to me when we were growing up that he might have problems about being one of the few African-Americans at the school. Us kids didn't see colour. He was easy-going and well-liked."
Lon Wysard, who also attended the academy, said the budding politician was in fact idolised for his keen sportsmanship.
"He was the star basketball player and always had a ball in his hand wherever he was," Wysard recalled.
Mr Obama was later admitted to read politics and international relations at New York's prestigious Columbia University where, his book claims, "no matter how many times the administration tried to paint them over, the walls remained scratched with blunt correspondence (about) s."
But one of his classmates, Joe Zwicker, 45, now a lawyer in Boston, said yesterday: "That surprises me. Columbia was a pretty tolerant place. There were African American students in my classes and I never saw any evidence of racism at all."
Family members and acquaintances believe that the real cloud over Mr Obama's life has been the discovery that his father was far from the romantic figure that his mother tried to portray.
A family friend said: "He is haunted by his father's failures. He grew up thinking of his father as a brilliant intellectual and pioneer of African independence only to learn that in Western terms he was basically a drunken lecher."
This ugly truth, say friends, has made Mr Obama ruthlessly determined to use every weapon that he has to succeed, including the glossily edited version of his father's story.
"At the end of the day Barack wants the story to help his political cause, so perhaps he couldn't afford to be too honest," said Ochieng.
Significantly, it was only four years after his father's death that Mr Obama travelled to his father's ancestral Kenyan village. There he learned the full story of his father's life and met some of his relatives.
One of his half-sisters, Auma, is now a council worker in southern England, but some of his other relatives are still living in huts in the village, without plumbing or electricity, farming a few scrawny goats and chicken and growing fruit and maize.
They speak the tribal Luo language and depend on handouts from family members who have emigrated to the UK and the United States for their few luxuries, notably the transistor radios that they use to follow Mr Obama's rocketing political fortunes.
He has positioned himself as a devout Christian (having found God, he says, after years as an atheist) and in a new book The Audacity Of Hope, timed to coincide with his campaign, he concentrates on his manifesto for 'reclaiming the American dream'.
This tome contains one telling paragraph, in a section in which he fumbles to try to justify his abrupt leap into the national political arena: he is, he says, chronically 'restless'.
"Someone once said that every man is trying to either live up to his father's expectations or make up for his father's mistakes, and I suppose that may explain my particular malady."
Additional reporting: Rob Crilly in Nairobi and Gill Pringle in Honolulu.
© 2008 Associated Newspapers Limited Terms Privacy policy Advertise with us Advertise in London Lite | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 2:18:38 PM | Mungo,
As an example, Brazil had slaves too.
They are more of a mixed society, yet, except for football players, the celebs, rich, middle class, are all white. They are not racist, however blacks are at the very bottom of the ladder with little hope of climbing the ladder.
Slavery existed in every culture, and still exists in Africa. Lynchings and medical experiments were also done to all races. As today, more criminals were black back then, so more were lynched. White criminals were lynched too. Forms of lynching still occur in poor countries that do not have a reliable justice system. During rapid expansion it was impossible to have trials and appeals that last decades, like we do today.
How many billions have we given to Africa? Welfare? Affirmative action? High positions in govt, media, corporations, etc.
Name another country in which you think a black immigrant has a better chance of success? | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 2:34:24 PM | As an example, Brazil had slaves too.
They are more of a mixed society, yet, except for football players, the celebs, rich, middle class, are all white. They are not racist, however blacks are at the very bottom of the ladder with little hope of climbing the ladder.
Bottom of the social ladder with little hope of climbing higher but they are not racist?
Please explain how an entire group can be at the bottom of the social ladder with little hope of climbing and it not be due to racism. What is it that holds them at the bottom of the social ladder?
If we can understand how it happens in a country that is almost completely non-racist then perhaps we can understand how it happens here.
As today, more criminals were black back then, so more were lynched.
Oh yes certainly. The worst kind of criminals, those who dared to learn to read and write along with those who had the audacity to teach them in violation of the law, those who had the temerity to insist on sitting at the front of the bus, drink from the wrong fountain or insist that they should be allowed to shop and eat where everyone else could and the worst criminal of all, those who dared to date/marry outside their race. Oh yes certainly, no black man was ever lynched but for being a criminal.
During rapid expansion it was impossible to have trials and appeals that last decades, like we do today.
Oh yes, that rapid expansion that outpaced the ability of the gov't to establish law enforcement, that rapid expansion of the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's when Americans were rushing headlong into the south in their covered wagons and braving the wild, untamed natives. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 3:29:22 PM | Brazil is a country with less opportunity than the USA. I spent 5 months there. However, many people are mixed, people do not hate as in the USA, etc. But still, the white people live 100 times better than the blacks. Many live in luxury, right next to favelas that do not have electricity or running water.. However, the blacks seem to be content with how things are, and people get along much better. Many are poor of all colors, and don't view the rich as evil whites. They view the rich, as the rich. It just happens that they are white.
As you go to Southern Brazil, you have European communities, that are much cleaner and safer.
Che Guevara, perhaps the least racist person, mentioned the same things in his writings. Wherever he went, blacks were the lowest in every society. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 3:43:16 PM | well, atlantaman123, it is no secret then that you thoroughly believe that black people are the lowest form of human being because of their inherent inferiority.
""They view the rich, as the rich. It just happens that they are white""
It "just happens", eh? I have a close friend who is black and a Ph.D. It didn't "just happen". If he were born in 1900 instead of 1950, trust me ....it would never have happened. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 3:52:55 PM | No, I believe in the bell curve.. I have no doubt any African American I encounter may be more intelligent than I. However, statistically, their curve happens to be shifted far to the left.
And if you want to say Asian's bell curve is further to the right than Caucasions, I have no problem with that either. If the average Asian is more intelligent than the average white or black, so be it.
Sometimes the simplest answers, or reasons, are the correct ones. As I said, please stop blaming whites for failures of certain groups, as millions of whites that are currently in the USA had no connection at all to slavery. If you want to send us to Europe, thats fine. Those are wonderful countries as well.
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:02:20 PM |
However, the blacks seem to be content with how things are,
Yes, I am sure they are absolutely content in their poverty, who wouldn't be?
I can see that your historical understanding of the favelas and the favelados is as extensive as your understanding of lynching in the US.
As you go to Southern Brazil, you have European communities, that are much cleaner and safer.
Cleaner and safer than what? and for what reason? | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:24:15 PM | Yes , very content. As an example,
Who would be happier? A millionaire living alone? Or a family with 10 people that live together, support and love each other? Actually, I have found the poor in Brazil to be happier than the wealthy. They live with family longer, help each other, have less stress, less to lose, less to worry about, and enjoy a simpler way of life.. While the wealthy are stressed about losing it all , making a bad deal,worrying about making more, etc etc. | |
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ebit36
| | Joined: 11/24/2004
Msg: 116 | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 5:10:05 PM | Atlantaman:
However, no country on Earth has done more for the black man than the USA.
This is the kind of thing that apologists for racism say, but which doesn't actually mean anything at all. If you want to do a study of how all countries with a history of oppressing and/or enslaving blacks compare to one another in their cureent treatment of "the black man," you MIGHT (I have no idea) be able to make the argument that we are the "best" of that lot, but otherwise, this is simply apologist nonsense.
Slavery existed in every culture, and still exists in Africa.
So? Guess what, there are different kinds of slavery. No slavery is what anyone here, I'm sure, would consider to be a good thing, but there is a significant and meaningful difference between war/conquest-based slavery or slavery of certain kinds of criminals or debtors (which HAS existed at some point in MOST cultures), and ILLEGAL human trafficking (as exists in this country in frightening numbers), and a culture of deeply institutionalized slavery based SOLELY on racial difference, with racial "science" used to justify it, and enslavement passed down with no release from it for generations except for dangerous attempts at escape and RARE (and wholly optional) manumission by a kind owner. In that, the western European and then American experience with slavery and exploitation for financial reasons of indigenous African slavery is unique. And no amount of rationalization can make it pretty or EVEN normal.
Lynchings and medical experiments were also done to all races. As today, more criminals were black back then, so more were lynched. White criminals were lynched too. Forms of lynching still occur in poor countries that do not have a reliable justice system. During rapid expansion it was impossible to have trials and appeals that last decades, like we do today.
OMG, this is truly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Are you a holocaust denier too?
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:09:34 PM | Mr.Steven,
Every Nation has a History.....A History of doing good things and a History of doing bad things! What makes a Nation Great and What keeps a Nation Oppressed, is really quite simple....Does the Nation learn from it's mistakes and progress into a Nation that places value upon all of it's people! With a common goal to treat all men and women equal in value and give each of it's people an equal Oppertunity to become the very best they can! Name One Nation in this world that has mastered this simple concept?? That Nation has not yet been built! How ever the Nation your not proud of and cast your asperions on is the One Nation That the World Flocks to and Critizes the most! Some would say these United States Of America is the greatest nation on this Earth, I happen to agree with those people! Their are those who have been led to believe we are the infidels of the World, your thinking seems to be along these lines!
You obviously are not a well Traveled man nor an Educated man, any man or women who has the privlege of living here the United States of America, is considered the elite of the World, not by our standards but by the very standards this world is judged on Economically Socially Standard of Living and most of all Freedom and Liberty!
And yet you stand here on this soil and blast this Great Nation, with your dim witted remarks and have the audasity to berate the very Nation that provides you with Liberty and Freedom of speech that Millions of Americans have sacraficed their lives and blood for you, to espouse your hatred for this Nation...is spitting on their memories and their graves ...How dare you! I feel sorry for you, your a very unintelligent individual, that lacks gratitude and love in your heart! For those who didn't even know but willing laid their lives down for you to be free....it's disturbing to say the least! To know we actually have morons in this country who buy into your stupidity, you bring shame to America with your vile remarks! Your not without shame or disgrace and now you stand there in your glass house and point a finger at this Nation...Look in the mirror your own reflection should make you sick to your stomach! Your not a man of reason, your not a man of thought, your not a man common sense, which leads me to believe your not even a man of prayer! In that case your not really a man at all! Just a person exsisting and sponging on this Nation, while throwing rocks at it, rather then trying to add bricks to it!
Your words freely flow of your distaste and hatred for this country, if you spent even half of the time learning of it's good deeds as you have pontifacating it's bad deeds, you would actually see what so many around the world see who are dying daily just trying to get here and pray to God they may one day be a Citizen of the United States of America...That's why I can say with a sober mind and with great conviction, your not very bright, you just think you are! your not even an American you just a simple minded person who got lucky enough to be born here! | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:18:26 PM |
And yet you stand here on this soil and blast this Great Nation, with your dim witted remarks and have the audasity to berate the very Nation that provides you with Liberty and Freedom of speech that Millions of Americans have sacraficed their lives and blood for you, to espouse your hatred for this Nation...is spitting on their memories and their graves ...How dare you! I feel sorry for you, your a very unintelligent individual, that lacks gratitude and love in your heart!
I've yet to see him say he HATES this country. There are a people displeased with how it's run. AND we've been given that right, just as everyone else, to speak freely of how we feel, even though you do not agree. That is YOUR right. How dare YOU tell anyone how they can feel or how they can voice it. YOU do not have the right to take that away, from anyone.
Simple is as simple does, Poco. Your post smacks hypocritical. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:01:20 PM | Nomadic, why don't you educate yourself...So why was my statement one of the most ridiculous you ever heard? Because you are brainwashed, and a bit ignorant? Maybe you should cry due to your poor eduction.
http://faculty.berea.edu/browners/chesnutt/classroom/lynchingstat.html
From 1882-1968, 4,743 lynchings occurred in the United States. Of these people that were lynched 3,446 were black. The blacks lynched accounted for 72.7% of the people lynched. These numbers seem large, but it is known that not all of the lynchings were ever recorded. Out of the 4,743 people lynched only 1,297 white people were lynched. That is only 27.3%. Many of the whites lynched were lynched for helping the black or being anti lynching and even for domestic crimes.
Of the lynching that did not take place in the South, mainly in the West, were normally lynchings of whites, not blacks. Most of the lynching in the West came from the lynching of either murders or cattle thief's. There really was no political link to the lynching of blacks in the South, and whites in the West.
Although some states did have lynchings, some of them did not lynch any blacks. Arizona, Idaho, Maine, Nevada, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wisconsin were some states that did not lynch any blacks to record.
Quite a few states did in fact lynch more white people than black. In the West these greater number of white lynchings was due to political reasons not racial reasons. California, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming lynched more whites than blacks. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:20:45 PM | atlantaman, what's ridiculous now is your attempt to lump racist lynchings in the south in with vigilante lynching as "frontier justice" in the west. You are obviously trying to lessen the racial element in the former by suggesting that it's merely another form of extra-judicial "justice," akin to the latter.
I don't think many people are ignorant of the fact that lynchings ALSO took place, against white people, mainly in frontier areas--I doubt that many of us would want to be subjected to this sort of summary justice, and IMO it's not "good" either. But it wouldn't have occcurred to me that someone was painting that as the same as racist lynchings in the south which occurred well into the post WW2 era, when lychings of whites in the west was all but eradicated (as they had been for the most part since the turn of the twentieth century).
So no, I didn't realize that you were painting these two phenomena with one brush, and I certainly wouldn't have imagined that you would attempt to lessen the significance as RACE crimes of the legacy of racist lynching by saying "oh, but whites were lynched in the Wild West....so, that's doesn't count." I do realise that now....and yet... I still think the argument is ridiculous. So I stand by what I said. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/26/2008 8:46:49 PM | Oh for god's sake Atlantaman. Read your OWN post:
From 1882-1968, 4,743 lynchings occurred in the United States. Of these people that were lynched 3,446 were black. The blacks lynched accounted for 72.7% of the people lynched. These numbers seem large, but it is known that not all of the lynchings were ever recorded. Out of the 4,743 people lynched only 1,297 white people were lynched. That is only 27.3%. Many of the whites lynched were lynched for helping the black or being anti lynching and even for domestic crimes.
Now, read that and say what you MEAN. Are you trying to argue that we shouldn't read lynchings of blacks in the American south as RACIALLY MOTIVATED? If that's what you mean then SAY IT. Because it sure as hell is NOT what this blurb that I assume you quoted off of a website says.
Unfortunately people think it is only a black phenomena.
Maybe some people think that and maybe they don't. But what can't be disputed is that when it comes to RELEVENCE in historical terms, political terms, and emotional terms, the legacy of "lyching" in this country is profound MAINLY because of its use as a means of "dealing with" blacks in south after reconstruction and well beyond. In that, it was used as a knee jerk and racist method of dealing with suspected criminality in a context in which there WAS a fully functioning (if ALSO often racially biased) judicial system, but ALSO as a form of terrorism.
Again, I'd be interested in knowing whether you are a holocaust denier. And if you AREN'T, if you would explain Hitler's murder of the Jews away by saying....well, he also exterminated gypsies so....he wasn't REALLY anti-semitic. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:49:02 AM | A bit nomadic, you don't see my point.
For about 100 years, there were 3,446 recorded lynchings of black men. How many of these were completely innocent black men, is obviously a much smaller number.
Now, lets look at one year 2005 in the USA. Just one year!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20203888/
WASHINGTON - Nearly half of the nation’s murder victims in 2005 were black, and the number of black men who were slain is on the rise. Most of the black murder victims — 93 percent — were killed by other black people, the study found. Around 8,000 of nearly 16,500 murder victims in 2005, or 49 percent, were black Americans, according to the report released by the statistics bureau of the Department of Justice.
So, if you can do math you can see in one year, 7440 African American were killed by other African Americans in one year!!!!!!!! WOW!!!! In 100 years of lynching whites lynched 3446 blacks.
Also, from 1995 to 2002, blacks murdered 4004 whites. That is more than 100 years of lynching!!!! I think people need to address those issues, but some are too busy blaming whitey.. | |
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| Barack Obama, the most Amazing cadidate4 president in decades makes a powerful speech today 3/18/08
Posted: 3/27/2008 5:31:18 AM | ....Furthermore, what is the point of illustrating how mistreated blacks have been by whites again and again in this election? Is this occurring in an attempt to excuse Reverend Wright? Does this make the claim that Reverend Wright and his church are justified in their completely racist, anti-American stance? Does this mean that we should support the Black Liberation Theology of Barack Obama's church and pastor? Does our history give blacks the right to hate the white America of today? And is this the primary reason why some of you feel such a driving need to support and elect Barack Obama? White guilt?
"White guilt refers to a controversial concept of individual or collective guilt often said to be felt by some white people for the racist treatment of people of color by whites both historically and presently.[1] The term is generally used in pejorative way, usually by those who criticize efforts to assist non-whites, particularly with policies or decisions the critics believe give advantages or benefits to them unfair to whites. Many on the left have rejected the idea that guilt is the motivating factor for these efforts.
The term is often applied to white Americans regarding the history of enslavement of African Americans, and colonization and displacement of Native Americans and Native Hawaiians. In addition, white guilt may be experienced by citizens of European countries whose nations participated in the slave trade and/or colonized portions of Asia and South Asia, Sub Saharan Africa and the Americas. White guilt has been described as one of several psychosocial costs of racism for White individuals along with the ability to have empathic reactions towards racism, and fear of non-whites.[2]
According to Shelby Steele, white guilt is "a form of self-congratulation, where whites initiate 'compassionate policies' toward people of color, to showcase their innocence to racism."[3] Steele has put the term in the context of American history and society in his book White Guilt: How Blacks and Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era (2006):
"Whites (and American institutions) must acknowledge historical racism to show themselves redeemed by it, but once they acknowledge it, they lose moral authority over everything having to do with race, equality, social justice, poverty and so on. [...] The authority they lose transfers to the 'victims' of historical racism and becomes their great power in society. This is why white guilt is quite literally the same thing as black power."[4]"
Wikepedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_guilt | |
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Because his followers seem to be clouded by his speeches rather then his deeds! 
and want sensorship! Too Funny! I have a capital idea? why not refute what I write rather then trying to demean it with mere childs play!
