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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/22/2009 7:46:40 PM | | There are so many expressions of intelligence. The typical IQ test is only one of many ways there are to measure intelligence. People can be musically, mechanically, verbally, logically, mathematically, interpersonally (people smart), etc. In my experience, people with extremely high academic IQ's aren't usually the warmest socks in the drawer. My brother is just such a person. Very accomplished, very high academic IQ, but doesn't blend well with others. I know a few PhD's who are social idiots, and I know some blue collalr guys that could outsmart a PhD any day of the week. Education rarely impresses me. Again, in my limited experience, the smartest people I know also happen to be the nicest people. Coincidence? I dunno. Is it the common disposition you mention? I dunno. But a lot of guys I know who are 'at the top' corporately and/or financially are very, very nice guys. Granted, this isn't always the case. There are a lot of jerks with bucks. But the really smart people seem to know that kindness is a good thing, and the preferred route of communication whenever possible. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/23/2009 7:49:27 AM | | The IQ test is not an accurate measurement of intelligence. You are bringing up a lot what might be aspects of intelligence or what might not be aspects of intelligence. Is artistic ability intelligence? Being adept at mechanics? Speaking well? Doing well at mathematics? What consitutes intelligence? Intelligence is a concept, an abstract idea; it is not concrete, and is, therefore, not easy or simple to define. And, is there any relationship between kindness or being 'nice' and intelligence? | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/23/2009 11:08:15 AM | What is it that brings you to the conclusion that someone is intelligent?
"Intelligence" is relative to the person judging another person's intelligence. One person's MORON is another person's Genius.
Is it their IQ? Is it their schooling? Is it their social skills? Is it thier ability to be corrected and admit when they are wrong?
"IQ" is socially prejudiced, so I suppose it could be considered within any particular group, but NOT universally.
Social Skills is referred to as "EQ" (or "Emotional Quotient"). After knowing many MENSA members, it became painfully clear that oftentimes the higher someone's IQ the closer to social moron they become... there are exceptions to this of course. Personally, I find EQ much more important in a relationship.
Schooling has little to do with intelligence. There are many 'book smart' people who are idiots when it comes to ANYTHING outside of their book learning.
I don't know if having an ability to be corrected and know when they're wrong is related to intelligence, but if it is, George W Bush is a blithering drool monkey. I think this one has more to do with self-confidence.
Do you find intelligent people have a common disposition?
No. There are intelligent people with serious anger issues, others are deeply spiritual and non-violent. Some are loving, and some are hateful. Some are healers and some are destroyers.
Please answer my questions.
Curious that you had the need to include this.
James, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/23/2009 9:20:26 PM | I too always wonder what people mean when they say they want intelligence. Thanks for this thread.
I'm average in the brains department and I'm fine with a partner who's average too. I'm not impressed by academic success in and of itself. Those that have one know that education is just a tool, one that isn't always best managed by its possessor. As for actual intelligence? Again, if you've got some you know that what we measure is the ability to solve problems. The real trick is knowing not only which are solvable, but which are worth the bother of a solution. The problem solving function in a gifted person is always working no matter what problem one lays before it.
No, highly intelligent isn't a requirement for me. I'll take a man who's brave, loyal, independent, capable, quiet, unflappable, emotionally self-sufficient, wildly sexual, and dominant -- and the measure of dominance isn't in its problem solving ability, but in solving one problem only: which type of problem to leave in front of each dog in the pack. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/23/2009 9:47:39 PM | [The IQ test is not an accurate measurement of intelligence. You are bringing up a lot what might be aspects of intelligence or what might not be aspects of intelligence. Is artistic ability intelligence? Being adept at mechanics? Speaking well? Doing well at mathematics? What consitutes intelligence? Intelligence is a concept, an abstract idea; it is not concrete, and is, therefore, not easy or simple to define. And, is there any relationship between kindness or being 'nice' and intelligence?]
I don't recall any statement in my post that the types of intelligence I mentioned were 'concrete', I was illustrating the fact that IQ tests are not the 'only' measure of intelligence. As far as their accuracy goes, I would agree to an extent. Primarily because as I stated, IQ tests measure a very limited type of intelligence, 'book smarts'. How would you define people who are especially good at mechanical things, or musical things, or mathematics? How are they 'not' types of intelligence? I also agree that intelligence is not simple or easy to define, but that doesn't make it impossible to define. IQ tests were a start, and these 'types' of intelligence build on that concept. You fail to agree with these gifts as being indicators of intelligence, but I fail to see a solid argument against them.
Perhaps you could attempt to define intelligence as you see it. You may come up with something much more definitive than what I've found. If you'd like more information on these types of intelligence, I'll provide a link for you.
Cheers.
http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Projects/The%20Nine%20Types%20of%20Intelligence.htm | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 12:49:45 AM | ^^^^My post was on no way attacking you or what you said; it was a continuation of the discussion and the questions which occur in this discussion.
I didn't suggest that those areas of thought or function you mentioned were concrete or not concrete. My point was that the concept of intelligence is an abstract one, and, therefore, defnining it is not simple. In fact, I believe all abstract concepts are impossible to define, though cultures and people try to do so and, of course, those definitions are found in dictionaries.
My opinion regarding the IQ test is that it, as a tool for determining intelligence, is very flawed and does not accurately measure intelligence. I'm not sure what it measures or if it measures intelligence to some degree, but I believe it is too flawed to be useful on any level.
I would not attempt to define intelligence here, right now, in these forums, though it would be an interesting thing to do. However, to do it well, I think, would take hours and hours of thought and pages and pages of writing, and I don't have the desire to put that much of my time and energy into to it. And, of course, it would be my definition, not a definitive one.
However, this is a forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas, not a place, to my mind, for challenging and attacking others. True intellectual disourse is based on the exchange of ideas, not proving who is right or wrong, that is debate. I didn't think this thread was meant for someone to come up with any definitive answers either, only to put forth their thoughts and ideas. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 7:06:04 AM | " The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two or more opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. "---F. Scott Fitzgerald
(That's one of my favorite quotes.)
Another to ponder: "I know that I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing."---Socrates
and finally,
"Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is really a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to include it in a fruit salad."---unknown
~~Bunny | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 8:15:25 AM | I suspect that the true mark of intelligence would not have "posting on PoF" at the top of the list...
just a hunch. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 8:23:17 AM | | ^^^As humous as your quip may be, I think I'd disagree. I think there are a lot of intelligent people who post n PoF. I think this OP is asking what are the indicators of a really fine intelligence, very high intelligence. Many people believe it is humility. I don't know. I only think that intelligence is an abstract idea and thus can be defined in a myriad of ways, but a definitive, all inclusive definition is not possible. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 9:45:08 AM |
Beaugrand said
I suspect that the true mark of intelligence would not have "posting on PoF" at the top of the list...
just a hunch.
Hm... by YOUR definition, what does that say about you posting on POF? ;-)
On an entirely different note:
Someone mentioned OTHER potential intelligent acts; one of those was 'art' or creativity... This is one area where the "IQ Test" fails miserably. Why? Because the self-selected "intelligent" people who have created such tests are themselves, not that creative, so they never thought it important.
There are also many slow witted "intelligent" people. . . some people are far better and reacting instantly to changing situations while the supposedly 'intelligent' person either freezes up or spends to much time analyzing that they fail to act.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 9:52:05 AM | There are also many slow witted "intelligent" people. . . some people are far better and reacting instantly to changing situations while the supposedly 'intelligent' person either freezes up or spends to much time analyzing that they fail to act.
Yes, this is an important point. I recently took two kids from my school to an international math and science competition in Asia. The course of study in my school, for these kids, is very high: essentially 1st and 2nd year university level work. In Asia, the way people learn is quite different than in the West. One of the aspects of winning the competition in Asia was how fast you could answer the questions. Almost all of the Western competitors, not just those from my school, failed to make it into the final rounds of the competition. About 80 percent or more of those who did make it into the final rounds were the Asian students. I believe it is because of a difference in the methods of teaching and learning and has nothing to do with intelligence or knowledge level. It doesn't mean, of the methods of educating people in the West or in the East, one is better than the other, but it does indicate a difference in perception of what is a valid indication of knowledge and even intelligence. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 10:14:12 AM | I think intelligence is a codeword for education for a lot of people. For others, it means someone who agrees with them. For some, it's someone who they can learn from and who can appreciate what they have to teach as well. Others see curiosity as intelligence. Others will ascribe intelligence to anyone who is well spoken.
To me, everyone possesses intelligence. What type, is the question. Requiring that a mate be intelligent is one of the most vague requirements I see on these sites. | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 7:23:55 PM | Personally, I think when a person wants someone who is intelligent, I think they are implying that they want someone that has a certain amount of book knowledge along with the common sense as well as the overall awareness of their surroundings to utilize that knowledge to avoid truly monumental failures in judgment. Competence, in short.
To give you an idea, there have been several glimmering examples of this (both on a personal level for me and an historical level of some of the most brilliant and dull minds over the past few centuries), in which there have been epic failures (the past presidential administration comes to mind, as well as it's ramifications it had upon the housing market, banking market, our economy going in the toilets, the national debt topping 1 trillion dollars, the Iraq war, the escape of Bin-Ladin when he was pinned up in Afganistan, and Afganistan, just to mention a few of the major things), and yet some of the greatest minds of the world, in earlier times, could have been considered retarded or had an impairment that might have "hindered" their progress. For some other, more notable examples, look at DaVinci, Einstein, Gates and Beethoven.
Yes, I'm Bush-bashing, but take him as an example. He graduated from one of the most prestigious colleges in the nation, yet he holds the current record for the lowest IQ for a presidential candidate at 92 (passing his father by four points). As it stands, his disorderly conduct record should have gotten him an expulsion from Yale, and was promoted through the military with the lowest scores possible for active duty and was promoted to 2nd Lieutenant without following proper succession regulation.
But, to compare, Bill Clinton has the highest IQ of a presidential candidate (168 if I remember correctly), but he made a truly monumental mistake with not keeping his !@#$ in his pants and telling a bold-faced lie, and some people thought of him as an idiot because of that. Considering that was the biggest mistake that I can remember was the scandals with Monica Lewinski, Linda Tripp and his healthcare plan, he didn't have a relatively memorable candidacy, but it pales in comparison to Bush, even after another eight years pass by as Bush will still have the lowest disapproval rating of any president (at least, the lowest of any in the near future).
And yes, I am sure that I have left out some key points on both sides, But if you need further proof, look at the Darwin Awards. Some of these people, granted, do not have any sort of higher learning beyond maybe a high-school diploma, but I'm sure at least one holds a Masters or PhD.
And now back on topic. Personally, when I look for someone who is intelligent, I tend to look for people who have the common courtesy and knowledge to spell and form correct grammatical sentences (within reason, after all, this is 2009). And sure, I do not mind the occasional Freudian slip as well as the occasional lack of judgment on minor issues, but the person should still be able to put two and two together. Some of the brightest people I know have never gone to college, and yet there are some who are teaching and whom I believe follow the example "Those who cannot do, teach."
As such I am sure this varies from person to person in respect of their own overall, what I coin, "wisdom" of the world. After all, sometimes the dimmest and brightest bulbs tend to flicker.
So, do you want intelligence, or competence? | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/24/2009 11:21:10 PM | Wow... comparing Bush, the man who approved of Torture, is responsible for thousands of dead American soldiers and 100,000 to 160,000 dead Iraqis, lied and made up reasons to go to war with a country that had nothing to do with some Saudi Arabians flying planes into the world trade center.
Comparing that sort of monster to a man who got a blow job.
Wow.
Oh, and to keep on topic, Bush is a true mark of idiocy... the complete OPPOSITE of what this thread is about. I mean, if we are discussing INTELLIGENCE it makes sense to hold up anti-intelligence as an example.
James, Seattle, Washington, USA, Earth | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/26/2009 11:44:48 AM | ^^^^^ so true James, wtf....he gives idiots a bad name.. ugh
Anyway... Intellect has less to do with education but more relevant to ones life experiences...
It's the ability to construct analytical insight as it relates to ideas, behaviors, events, etc.. and the ability to articulate it clearly..
Its all about being able to hold a conversation w/o having it all being dumbed down for you..
Another surefire indicator of intelligence is a quick wit... a clever sharp mind is not only intelligent but seriously sexy... | |
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 1/26/2009 12:55:23 PM | In a nutshell (and in my borrowed opinion(s)...
"Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. "
- Stephen W. Hawking -
Which means that...
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
~Charles Darwin~
Thus...
"When you are aware and accept that everything around you is constantly changing, and that you have no control over 99.99% of it, you are able to embrace change like a close friend! Change is a like a river, constantly flowing and moving things around. The river of life is constantly bringing you ideas, people, situations each one is an opportunity to be enriched or to enrich others, and to learn. Change is the play of the universe as it entertains us in the biggest light and sound show of all time. Why not sit back and enjoy the show!"
~Innerspace~
JMO
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| The true mark of intelligence....
Posted: 3/28/2009 12:08:32 PM | | to me it is someone who can keep talking when the time calls for it and is smart, there is noting more nice then a smart cool girl. | |
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