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| 4.000 dead
Posted: 3/25/2008 9:10:25 PM | mr. mungo,
if there are 4000 dead it is because someone wanted them dead. who might that be?
the answer... those who are on a jihad against america. being in iraq has brought them to the forefront. it has brought them out of their holes.
we must fight and we must win. the alternative is to be a hostage to terrorists from now on. do not be a liberal coward. dive into the fight. some wars are necessary. certainly this one is.
mr. bush is a hero. he had the guts to do what was right and not flinch from it. i appaud his efforts. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 5:00:22 AM |
You know, they don't count those who were flown out and died later in Germany or other military hospitals!
It's about time someone brought this out. It's true. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 5:13:36 AM | They don't count the tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan civillians who have been killed either.
About the American war dead, Darth Cheney says they volunteered. Too bad they couldn't get five deferments like**** | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 7:41:13 AM |
those who are on a jihad against america. being in iraq has brought them to the forefront. it has brought them out of their holes.
Actually the answer is often people who were abused in "sweep and capture" detainments at Abu Grahb, over 90% of the people were released as it was realized they had no actionable intelligence.
Essentially imagine somebody invades and conqueres the USA, then breaks down your door and tortures you. Later they decide your innocent.
What would you do? Especially if you have an AK in your house?
This idea that they're all Jihadists is an outright fallacy, maybe you should actually read a book or two about the conflict before stating stuff that is verifiably bullshit. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 7:51:09 AM | | Yeah, Charles. A lot of Iraqis are just understandably pissed off in general without any Jihadi motivations. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 8:46:13 AM |
oldgary
its going on 6 years, since our lovely government invade iraq. now 4.000 soilder dead. do you feel safer. i no i dont. i have learn from the past. if your waiting on the government to protect you. you will be waiting a long time. this is the same government who cant even build a fence
I am glad you brought this up, and that several people have been brave enough to address this problem.
And you are so right about our government not even being able to "Build A Fence"
1longbow
4.000 dead
Posted: 3/25/2008 12:07:01 AM
As to casualties, this has been as minimal as anybody could expect.
I have done 3 years over there and am about to go back. We are well equipped and we are fighting for your lives.
Y'all want us to give up? Y'all want us to just quit? They attacked us and they ain't stopping.
You have a better alternative than fighting back?
They have been after us for 1400 years... we are infidels ya know.
I want to say,...that I have the upmost Respect, for you, and our Soldiers, both past, and present.
I hate to disagree with you,..and I do not do it for spite.
I do not believe the casualties have been minimal.
I do not believe our cause is just.
I do not believe we have any reason to be there, except to protect the intrest of Big Oil,
and Big Money.
I am sorry that even one American has lost their life in this unjust, immoral act of power & greed.
I understand that the GI's over there were welcomed with open arms by many, but not all,..or we wouldnt be there (still)
"They",....didnt "Attack" us,...please understand what really happenned,...and lets reason why our troops are still there after 6 years ?
Our so called "Objective's",...were to
1.) Remove Sadam,....(we did that.)
2.) Help Iraq establish a standing Army, and hold elections. (Still Waiting - Still have our troops coming home in Body Bags)
Why,...in 6 years time,...have we NOT, been able to help build a "Standing Army" ?
Why,...in 6 years time,...heve we not been able to help the Iraqi's hold a "Democratic Election" ?
Why is there no set plan, or date, for our Troop withdrawl ?
I have all the Respect in the world for YOU,...and our Military,.....but despise the cowards that got us involved in this unjust, illegal, and immoral "Liberation",....and arent worried about getting us out of it.
Please read below.
IronmanUK
The Iraqi's didn't attach the US. The Taliban didn't attack the US..... Both parties condemned 9/11 and offered support in bringing the perpetrators to justice.
Thank you for understanding this.
gtomustang
some parts of Iraq are less dangerous than others, yes, which is how some GI's can claim everything's hunky dory, and others wonder what they are smoking. 10 support every trigger puller. But does it help America at all? Even the Pentagon admits, Saddam supported no terrorist groups except those who went after his local enemies, the Israelis, the Iranians, and the Kurds. He had exactly nothing to do with the 19 9/11 terrorists (15 of whom were Saudis). "They" haven't been fighting us for 1400 years b/c we haven't existed for that length of time.
Thank you too Sir,.....some people sem to forget that our nation,...America,..is just a couple of hundred years in the making. And at least some of remember the real reason behind Saddams removal.
The Artful Codger
And this, from the World Health Organization
New study estimates 151 000 violent Iraqi deaths since 2003 invasion
9 JANUARY 2008 GENEVA/BAGHDAD
A large national household survey conducted by the Iraqi government and WHO estimates that 151 000 Iraqis died from violence between March 2003 and June 2006.
The study found that violence became a leading cause of death for Iraqi adults after March 2003 and the main cause for men aged 15-59 years. It indicated that on average 128 Iraqis per day died of violent causes in the first year following the invasion and that the average daily violent death toll was 115 in the second year and 126 in the third year. More than half of the violent deaths occurred in Baghdad.
And Thank You too,..for this information,..stuff like this helps to understand why there is so much confusion in trying to get any kind of body count.
mungojoe
And this has what to do with Iraq?
Last time I checked there weren't any radical islamist of any note or concern in Iraq until AFTER it was invaded (mainly because Saddam hated them more than you do).
And what has Bush given them now, which Saddam denied them?
One of the largest MTA's in the world to hone their craft.
mungojoe,...Thank You Too,.....My Hats off to you too Sir !
Now,..let me add what I read, and then I'll say my peace,.....
Monday March 24th, 2008
Overall US death toll in Iraq hits 4,000
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080324/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
The overall U.S. death toll in Iraq rose to 4,000 after four soldiers were killed in a roadside bombing in Baghdad, a grim milestone that is likely to fuel calls for the withdrawal of American forces as the war enters its sixth year.
"There have been some significant gains. However, this enemy is resilient and will not give up, nor will we," he said. "There's still a lot of work to be done."
Tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians also have been killed since the U.S.-led invasion on March 20, 2003, although estimates of a specific figure vary widely due to the difficulty in collecting accurate information.
One widely respected tally by Iraq Body Count, which collects figures based mostly on media reports, estimates that 82,349 to 89,867 Iraqi civilians have lost their lives in the conflict.
Overall attacks also have decreased against Iraqi civilians but recent weeks have seen several high-profile bombings, underscoring the fragile security situation and the resilience of both Sunni and Shiite extremist groups
Mosul, Iraq's third largest city about 225 miles northwest of Baghdad, has been described as the last major urban area where the Sunni extremist al-Qaida group maintains a significant presence.
Iraq's National Security Adviser Mouwaffak al-Rubaie said he sympathized with the American losses but warned against pulling out U.S. troops before Iraqi forces are ready to take over their own security and the situation is sufficiently stable
"Honestly, this war is well worth fighting. This war, we are talking about war against global terror," he said Sunday in an interview with CNN.
No group claimed responsibility for the Green Zone attacks, but suspicion fell on Shiite extremists based on the eastern areas from which the weapons appeared to have been fired.
The attacks followed a series of clashes last week between U.S. and Iraqi forces and factions of the Mahdi Army, the biggest Shiite militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr
Ok,...can we read between the lines ?
We constantly get different body counts, from several different sources,...because it is extreemly difficult to really know exactly how many have been killed.
Of course Iraq's National Security Adviser Mouwaffak al-Rubaie is going to tell us that
the war is worth fighting,....its not him thats doing it !
Global Terror ??? Isnt that a "Catch All ?",......I dont see, or hear about no Global Terror,...except from people trying to justify our reason to be in IRAQ.
Ok,...you know where I stand on this,.....I was against it from the get go.
Our country was attacked,...we were in shock,...people wanted revenge, and they wanted it NOW !
Lies were made up by Cheney,...and we went into the "Attack Mode",......
Sad,....but true.
We had the support of the World, backing us on our decision to go after Osama,....Suddam,.....invade,....I mean,..."Liberate" those poor IRAQI's,.......
We had the wool pulled over our eyes,...we wanted revenge, and we struck out.
Now,...thousands of our own members of the Military,..have died,...because of Lies !
And our troops are stuck in the middle.
Be Patriotic,...defend your Country !
Blood in the Sand !
You really want to be a True American Patriot ?
Understand why were really over there,..and if it makes you as sick to your stomach,
as it does me,........
Demand our Troops be given a time frame for a withdrawl,..and lets demand they come home,..before thousands more of our fighting men come home in body bags,.....
for naught. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 10:26:16 AM | | We ought to pull out of Iraq...same for Afganistan, Germany, Korea, Japan, and anywhere else we have troops. We should have never entered any war that isn't on our soil....WWI, WWII and all the rest. In war people die, get hurt, bad things happen...we should avoid at any cost so I'm all in favor of cutting out of there and running...but we need to do it before things settle down too much more than they have in Iraq already. If we wait we might look foolish. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 1:39:50 PM | | Well, unfotunately for you people to know that this is a war and people die in war. I served in 2 conflicts myself and this is just a reality. we lost more soldiers in Vietnam, korea and wwII and i dont see you protesting or talking about how many peole we lost in those wars. how come this one was picked over the others? | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 1:59:14 PM | ya know, the U.S. has weapons that could end this war overnight. What would be wrong with simply saying to the entire middle east. "Ok, we're packing up and going back home; that seems to be what the majority wants. By the way, if any terrorists from this region; that is, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan, Arabia should in the future commit any act of terror in North America we will annihilate all of you without exception."
With a promise like that even Bin Laden would think twice about carrying out his usual crap. No one likes to see all of their country unfit for life for the next 25000 years. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 7:15:25 PM | 4,000 is a heartbreaking number. I won't debate if it is right or wrong to be in Iraq or in Afghanistan (the forgotten war). I ask that we honor those that have died and support our deployed troops. I have visited many wounded troops at Reed and I could never think to look them in the face and say their sacrifices were for nothing. I simply tell them I am greatful to them for my liberty, my way of life. And I know everyone has different opinions but frankly if the person is wearing or has worn a uniform, I think he has more of a right to express an opinion than a civilians such as myself. I know it bothers our military servicemen and women to think they do not have our support. They read the news as well and it is often not positive. I know I don't see articles about the schools being built, sick children being provided with medical care all the good that is being done.
The numbers may be numbers to some people, but they have a face and a name. These are two I supported although briefly. I doesn't matter to me if they are number 1965 or 2015 KIA, their families lose is no less great. As you can tell by my profile I actively support our troops. It's not a bumpersticker to me, it makes me feel that I am helping in some way. Or as one of our volunteers tagline says "fighting terrorism one care package at a time".
I'd like to say THANK YOU to any of our military reading this. I'd like to also thank the multinational troops. I have supported an Aussie and a Kewie and your sacrifice is no less than an American soldier. I refuse to discuss politics but I had to comment, it means alot to me.
In rememberance of honorable service and the ultimate sacrifice of Maj. Mike Mundell 1/5/2007 KIA by IED and SPC David Lane 9/4/2007 KIA by IED. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 7:16:25 PM | Well, unfotunately for you people to know that this is a war and people die in war. I served in 2 conflicts myself and this is just a reality. we lost more soldiers in Vietnam, korea and wwII and i dont see you protesting or talking about how many peole we lost in those wars. how come this one was picked over the others?
Yah nobody protested Vietnam at all.
ya know, the U.S. has weapons that could end this war overnight. What would be wrong with simply saying to the entire middle east. "Ok, we're packing up and going back home; that seems to be what the majority wants. By the way, if any terrorists from this region; that is, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Pakistan, Arabia should in the future commit any act of terror in North America we will annihilate all of you without exception."
With a promise like that even Bin Laden would think twice about carrying out his usual crap. No one likes to see all of their country unfit for life for the next 25000 years.
the problem is Iraq wasn't a terrorism supporter.
Also the international community wouldn't accept the use of nuclear weapons as a reply for conventional terrorist attacks. You'd essentially turn yourself into a rogue state.
Also what the US needs is LESS threats and less of a heavy hand, counter insurgencies are won in the hearts of the people. Mass killings lose that battle. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 10:16:19 PM | Honda cat said:
And I know everyone has different opinions but frankly if the person is wearing or has worn a uniform, I think he has more of a right to express an opinion than a civilians such as myself. I know it bothers our military servicemen and women to think they do not have our support. They read the news as well and it is often not positive.
Wow. Leave it to a woman to recognize and then put forth the obvious. I've been reading this thread and wincing my way through it for what seems like days now. I wanted to speak up but for some reason just haven't, until now. Honda cat, you've written the words I've felt every time I read threads like this. It's like ...where's the respect? We don't have to support the war but for crying out loud, at least be patriotic enough to support the troops and their morale, and if you don't please fake it!
I'd like to say THANK YOU to any of our military reading this. I'd like to also thank the multinational troops. I have supported an Aussie and a Kewie and your sacrifice is no less than an American soldier. I refuse to discuss politics but I had to comment, it means alot to me.
I would like to add my voice to this very intuitive, sensitive posting. Though many Americans may not show it, there are so many of us who are extremely grateful to the men and women who may actually be dying or who may be in harm's way this very evening, while we take it easy at our computers, bickering and whining about this war. I want to join Honda cat in thanking all of the soldiers out there for your bravery and for doing your job and for the job you have already done. And may God bless you all. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 10:28:15 PM | "the problem is Iraq wasn't a terrorism supporter."
Your starting to believe the crap you say doesn't exist Charles.
Who told you Iraq wasn't supporting terrorists? Fox news? No, no...let me get this...the Democrats!!!!
Ok, I'm open for this one Charles....inform many listening ears here who your source is that can actually confirm with actual facts that Iraq did not support terrorism? | |
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Posted: 3/26/2008 11:51:49 PM | Msg. 35
I ask that we honor those that have died and support our deployed troops.
Seeking and sharing the truth about the (total) human cost of war is honouring the brave young men and women who are charged with actually risking life and limb to fight. Opposition to war is in support of the troops.
Holding the people accountable, who have sent our family, friends and neighbours into harm's way - in our name - is our responsibility as citizens...and as family, friends and neighbours.
Keeping the debate alive and informed, insures war - and all of the individuals directly impacted by it - are not forgotten. These efforts may not be as hands-on as the compassionate work that the writer of Msg. 35 does, but neither's value is diminished in the other's presence.
---
A lament:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=v2-XIauB37U | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 12:46:02 AM | 4.000 dead
A sad, sad story.. And for what!?!? For a mistake?
Of course for every recorded fatality, they have been running a tally of approximately 8 to 1 seriously injured or disabled. So that would be approximately 32,000 whose lives have changed forever with all manner of physical complications too.
-Suth'nBoy
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Posted: 3/27/2008 5:56:59 AM | I am someone that believes in action. I don't debate politics, I just make sure to vote. I have never known anyone to change their views. It's obvious in this posting the discussion back and forth there are differing opinions but at the end of the day has anyone said, yes you're right I've changed my mind?
I change what I can in my small way. If you support our troops, how can they know that? If they're in Tikrit, Mosul, etc, they can't see the yellow ribbon placed on your car. Reach out to those that serve. Absolutely, do what you can as a citizen, vote, lobby, etc. but in the meantime how about a simple thank you to those guys and gals in uniform. Sorry this is one soapbox I'll never get off of. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 6:10:18 AM | | Job 1 for Democrats next January? Draft all card-carrying Republicans. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 10:19:02 AM | http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts9507863.aspx
Talked about at length there. No links between Saddam and 9/11. I mean Saddam was horrible to it's own people, but that was hardly the context of the discussion now was it?
Now if you know of some Saddam links to terrorism activity on US soil in the years leading up to 2003. I'm sure the Republicans would LOVE to hear from you. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 11:43:09 AM | the enemy wants us dead. all of us. women and children.
we must fight until the radical islamic ideologs no longer exist. And this has what to do with Iraq?
You ask what it has to do with Iraq and then immediately go on to admit that it has become the battleground of radical Islam.
Whether you want to believe they were there previously or not, we're in agreement that they ARE there NOW. And we do the right thing by fighting them.
Last time I checked there weren't any radical islamist of any note or concern in Iraq until AFTER it was invaded (mainly because Saddam hated them more than you do).
Check again. Even before new links were recently discovered, we knew Saddam funded Ansar al-Islam and the families of martyrs in Palestine.
Not that that was the only reason to remove him from power, mind you. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 11:52:26 AM | Some of you need to do some reading on the subject of Iraq. even Bill Clinton, in speeches, noted how Saddam was amassing WMD's......which are/were easily hidden or transported to Syria or N Korea. Most recent Pentagon report, as the Wall St Journal noted, had Saddam training and supporting terrorist groups, as well as forming one to kill Americans in Arab countries. Interesting reading, for those of us who dont just get their news from the millionaires hosting the "Today" show in the morning.
Besides, in the end, should we have left the worlds second largest oil supply in the hands of a murdering torturing madman, bent on destroying the West? Lets see how many of you Communists want to give up driving your cars, shopping, eating, eating out, vacati0ning, or going to work. How about turning off your computer to save energy? Maybe you can talk to your friends across town on cans attached by a string. Or communicate with rude cave paintings. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 12:04:14 PM | Ah the old trucked to Syria line
Dont you think that the Israeli's and the Americans with all their satellites and intelligence would see the stuff being shipped?
Communism has nothing to do with anything.
Communism is dead.
Only in North Korea and Cuba.
We have left the worlds so called greatest military in the hands of Facists who think they speak to god. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 12:26:53 PM |
Dont you think that the Israeli's and the Americans with all their satellites and intelligence would see the stuff being shipped?
Ha!
Assuming you're against the war, do you not point out the faulty intelligence when somebody suggests to you that Saddam had WMD?
But when it supports your argument you act as if our intelligence agencies are infallible. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 12:30:59 PM | I find it humorous that so many have so much to say, yet have done absolutely nothing to educate their selves. There is tons of literature which discusses history and war in the middle east. Along with western influence which has caused much of it since the early 40's.
Along with many other wars in history, this one has been driven by socioeconomics, politics, and greed... This war is no different than any other in history. If you want to make a difference, take your government back by force, or you can just sit around complaining about it. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 12:32:55 PM |
I find it humorous that so many have so much to say, yet have done absolutely nothing to educate their selves.
I also see something humorous. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2008 12:33:29 PM | | They cant get things wrong all the time can they? | |
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