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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:36:05 PM | Aitche,
I can see what you are saying. I never really thought of it that way.
I find it amusing that people in the UK call them "bits". Hmm...Brit Bits...lol. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:39:50 PM | Why talk about the models? As someone said, they were never meant to be the goal of the common man or woman.
Confidence is owning it, baby. Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative. I used to have a friend who was very busty, and she would wear low cut bathing suits that showed lots of cleavage. I was totally scandalized, but she said, "I want to direct their attention where I look good" not towards her butt which she thought was too big.
And pretty girls don't have it easy either. I saw a comment once, that when you have low self-esteem, just remember Jennifer Aniston. She is beautiful, sexy, makes millions, America's Sweetheart, and she loses her man to a high-maintenance woman who collects children prolifically. Everybody cries sometimes. | |
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Jemue
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Joined: 1/26/2005
Msg: 28 | |
| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 4:50:08 PM | For some reason I will never understand naked skin seems to be a major problem in the United States. People over here behave as if we were already fully dressed when we came out of the uterus... and based on your posting I come to the conclusion that the UK isn't any better.
I'm not sure why either, it's a very big issue and people are persecuted for it all over the place in various ways, my experiences of being back in Europe are much the same. Though in the UK, my experiences were a lot more main land European opposed to North American.
She is beautiful, sexy, makes millions,
Two of those things are in the eye of the beholder, and the third is irrelevant to beauty ;) | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 5:15:48 PM | I agree with Post 24 re: nude beaches and nudity attidudes.
I'm a middle-aged woman (with all the inherent "flaws" that age brings), but I sincerely believe the reason I have practically no "body image" issues relates to my upbringing (where non-glamour style nudity was commonplace in the German news magazines the family subscribed to; my super-religious grandmother had no qualms about the non-stop articles about "naturalist" lifestyles).
I started going to the local nude beach 30 years ago. Everyone who doesn't have personal or moral beliefs that they would be betraying should give that a shot. They'll soon discover that a tiny minority have "perfect" bodies, another minority have disturbingly unattractive bodies, and the vast majority of us have fairly nice bodies overall, with some bits better than other bits, but still quite nice. | |
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jurupa
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Joined: 2/12/2008
Msg: 30 | |
| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 5:53:58 PM |
It is a bit weird that things being sold to men have women in the ads, and things being sold to women have women in the ads. I don't think advertising can be soley blamed for the female lack of confidence, otherwise no-one would have any. Sexy sells period. I am also not solely blaming advertising for this, as the blame goes to media AND cultural. The two are very closely connected and influence each other.
I agree with the poster that said that men have not been bombarded as much as women, but it is changing and it will not be too much longer before the number of men who start to show outward signs of this increase. Lets face it if all women looked like movies stars. no man would complain. But now that men are beginning to be held to the same types of standards that women are all of a sudden it isnt fair. It is only going to get worse for men because women's choices are not driven by the same criteria anymore, and that puts men that arent all that blessed in the looks department in the same position the "fat" chick is in now. I agree that guys will start to see the same type of imagery females are bombarded with more and more, but I don't think it will be as nearly as bad as it is with the females, and two it won't take the same route as the female imagery. The reason I say this is besides what seems every woman wants a guy 6' or taller women in general don't have one set idea man they all want unlike with men where most will take the 5'5" skinny athletic blonde with blue eyes. And there are already guys that are in the "fat" woman department already because of the changing standards women are now doing. But as much as standards change, there are still going to be women drawn to money and/or certain type of imagery that they want/ or dawn to. Lets face it I don't think rock stars are going to have a shortage of females at their feet any time soon. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 6:01:50 PM | I have to tell you straight up. Most guys have body image issues. Why do you think p*nis enhancers are so popular? Why do you think most men's health magazines are always about getting the perfect body? Why do you think men's cosmetic surgery has shot up? It's because the media have been showing young, hot, buff men on TV, in films and in the media in general, and women have cottoned onto it, and now many women regard men's bodies the same way men USED to regard women's bodies in the 50s and 60s. It's got so bad that many men have developed eating disorders. All of this is not as high as in women, but it's only been going for 15-20 years. Give it another 30-40 years, and men may well overtake women in low body image.
If lack of confidence and bad body image is a dealbreaker, does anyone have any suggestions about how to go about changing this? You don't need to. Men EXPECT women to not think their body is "the bomb". Women's articles constantly say that nearly ALL women hate at least one part of their bodies, and this has filtered into men's magazines, and men generally know this. Men know that low body image is the real reason that women ask if they look fat in an outfit, and men expect it. Men are used to this.
When men like confidence in a woman, it generally means socially, that women have the confidence to talk directly to men, and not give a nervous laugh every time an attractive man talks to her, to have the confidence to start a conversation with a man she is interested in, and to not have sex with every man who dates her, because she feels that she really does have more to offer a man than just sex.
Real confidence is integrity, doing what you say, and saying what you do. Accepting who you are, and not expecting or needing to be treated as a princess or a whore, but just as a woman and a human being, equal to a man, but neither more nor less.
If you can do that, you have a fantastic man eating out of the palm of your hand. He might not be as great-looking as Brad Pitt. But he could be a better boyfriend and partner in every way. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:33:54 PM |
Aitche replied to my post with:
Tigerwoods, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ0adXaY_bs, to illustrate your point. Lucian Freud is 'Art', Jenny Saville is 'Art', taking twenty pounds off an already thin model to sell a perfume isn't art, it's manipulation. My lack of confidence doesn't stem from me being overweight, my BMI is 19.5, I have two degrees, my credit card is balanced at the end of each month, and if the earths population were down to me - we'd be extinct. I don't know that advertising is the sole cause, I've never had much in the way of confidence and I don't really understand why, which is why I asked.
Aitche let me begin by clarifyin that my posting style is never directed at the OP themselves unless they ask a personally-specific question or advice. In your case, you posted a theory and are querying the POF community for their thoughts on confidence, body image and media's potential affect...
I applaud you for that, and never for one moment would I classify you with the same group of genetic deadwood I was deriding... The fact that you're even pondering such questions attests to your capacity for independent and intelligent thought... 
My post is meant for any of the idiots that actually do look at a magazine cover, feel bad about themselves, and run to the bathroom to shove their index finger down their throat in a misguided attempt to match an modern day paragon/idol, which I still DO call art by the way...  Just because the cover of Vogue isn't hanging in the Louvre doesn't mean an artist of sorts didn't help to create it... 
If Michaelangelo had chosen to paint emaciated women instead of "overweight" women, would you nullify that from the category of art as well? (call it voluptuous if you like) 
At any rate, you've posted a good question, and my opinion on the subject is that some individuals are just born weak and need constant exterior positive reinforcement from friends/family just to get by. Some eventually learn to draw it from within, but most never will...  | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/26/2008 7:42:05 PM |
If lack of confidence and bad body image is a dealbreaker OP: I have the same thing, but for the most part, I think I can fake my way around it. My mother I think was the biggest influence for my body image, but being called fat and ugly since about age 6 will do that. I just do my best to stay away from people who see me that way now so I don't have to deal with their opinions. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/27/2008 4:02:16 AM | For the record, not all Brits call their bits ‘bits’, but I’m hoping it’ll catch on, I think it’s quite cute.
I know men have the same issues, some of my male friends spend more time preening in front of a mirror than women do. I’m not sure, maybe they’ve always felt like that but now feel more able to express it? Fashion has something to do with it I think, one male friend of mine is quite hairy and hates it because the images he’s bombarded with are of waxed, hairless, men. 30 years ago it was fashionable for men to be hairy, and quite possibly hairless men felt just as insecure then. Bazaar world we live in.
Tiger, sorry if I misunderstood, reading it again it was a general response, not targeted. Michaelangelo isn’t the best example, I don’t think he saw a naked woman in his life – have you noticed how masculine his women are? That’s because they were male models that he ‘adapted’ (he had a soft (or should I say hard) spot for young men), but that aside – it’s pure trendsetting. Back then, voluptuous was the vogue because it meant wealthy. Now thin is the vogue because in general you take the time to look after yourself (maybe – again, another theory).
I can, and do, fake confidence. Although I find it harder with men I’m more attracted to. When I’m out with friends I find it a little easier, I can relax more. But when I go out on my own I find it very hard work, I wonder whether anyone else there is faking it like me? Also, I don’t think it’s just body image I’m unsure about, I lack confidence in people’s ability to like me as a person. I see people who are quite obviously at ease with themselves and wonder if there’ll come a time when I’ll be like that or if I’ll have to just continue faking. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/27/2008 7:41:47 AM | | I'm not entirely clear to me what it is you're asking, if anything. Are you saying women don't see each other naked as much as men do? I have no idea whether that is true. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/27/2008 8:55:02 AM | hello OP.
I feel you may be onto something with your theory here.
i remember, growing up,. even in school, girls would perform all sorts of 'cover up' techniques, in the changing rooms, to avoid exposing their bodies. Privacy is something that a lot of women experience, especially here in the UK,.. i wont even use a shop that has communal changing rooms.. i like my own private stall.
Women dont get to see other womens bodies much,.. and yet, even if they did,.. i still think the pervading media bombardment of 'perfect' images,.. overrides logical thought on this, to some extent.
You ask how low body image can be overcome?
Well, i dont know if this is useful,.. but in my late teens,.. iI went through a series of major surgeries, that pretty much mucked up my body. All the 'bits' that would normally be sexualised, or thought of as attractive to men, were scarred, and mucked about with,...that was a bit of a blow for a teenage girl,.. I knew then, that if i didnt want to go through my life alone, and unhappy, and scared to reveal my 'flaws' to anyone,.. i had to totally reframe my own perceptions of what was beautiful,.. in myself, as well as other people.
Over the ensueing years, i have tried to place no value on bodies,.. mens, or womens bodies. i went into nursing,.. and seeing all shapes and sizes of bodies, helped me realise that ral attraction, real sexiness in people, has very little to do with body shapes... facial attraction is still important,.. i think.. in some cases,.. for me personally,.. but on the whole,.. seeing handsome young men, poorly, and vunerable in a hospital bed.. made me realise that our common humanity is a great levelller.
Body shapes hold no attraction or fascination for me now. I'm much more fascinated by the persona, and energy of a person.
I believe self confidence has very little to do with body shape, or body image,.. for me,.. real self confidence is knowing what I can do well,.. and also being fine with my limitations.. I am more than the sum of my body parts,.. we all are,..and when i hear anyone droning on about being fit, healthy, ecercising,.. getting toned, losing weight,.. blah blah blah,.. or complaining about a big nose,.. or a few wrinkles,.. I tune these people out,.. I refuse to be drawn into their existential angsnt,.. in the big scheme of things.. a few pounds of fat, or a few wrinkles, or saggy boobs, or big hips, or whatever, are really not that important when it comes to being a 'real' person.
Self confidence is knowing that i can present myself at my physical worst, and still knowing that people, will like me for the woman I am.
REALITY.. when people can slouch around in joggy pants and slippers, hair in a pony tail.. and him with his joggy bottoms on, and messy hair,.. and those people still look at each other with love.. not revulsion for the imperfections.. that sort of reality is what really brings a sense of inner confidence and peace.
Sometimes OP, the whole body image and self confidence thing is wildly over exaggerated in its importance, especially on these Forums.
You live in the UK too,.. you know as well as I that most people in this country live their lives, quite happilly, without ever thinking about 'self improvement' they just 'are'.
Miss Eyre. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/27/2008 9:28:56 AM | I think it's true that women are far more concerned with their body image than men are and tend to be too hard on themselves as a result. Men like all sorts of different body types and are perfectly capable of finding more than one type appealing .
If there's a difference it's this :
A woman puts on ten pounds and thinks "I'm fatter !"
A man puts on ten pounds and thinks "He he,...I'm bigger."
It's like anything else though. People who complain but do nothing to fix the problem tend to get the brush-off pretty quickly. Nobody can change the way the human brain is hard-wired so it's pointless trying to convince people that they should be attracted to something they simply aren't attracted to. In other words, (and this isn't directed at anybody in particular, it's simply a figure of speech) : Put up or shut up. Do something to fix the problem or stop complaining about it. Nobody can deal with the chronically under-confident types who need constant assurance (and this is really just a general rule) Eventually patience runs out. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/27/2008 10:22:15 AM | Sweetie,
I agree with all that is said, but if you are happy with who you are, then screw the rest. You should try to please yourself before anyone else and if you don't like something about yourself then fix it...I was thin my wholoe life and a knockout and had a really bad attitude to go with it because i was full of myself..i still am, but the only six pack i have is inthe fridge and i am totaly ok ,if you don't like it, don't let the door hit ya...confidence is really just a state of mind..another words bull crap we tell ourselves so we will get out of bed... and stop eating bon bons..lol | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:21:23 AM |
If lack of confidence and bad body image is a dealbreaker, does anyone have any suggestions about how to go about changing this? Confidence comes in many shades but if you don't have the confidence to accept who you are and the way you think then anything you paste over the top of that is merely a mask that can fall off.
I really like Miss Eyre's observations and I agree with her, as usual. At school, the boys would run around their changing room without clothes on and had to shower together in a row of showers with no curtains or partitions between them. For the girls it was completely different and we manoeuvred clothes on and off behind towels and never saw each other unclothed. However, if you go out on any hot day in the summer you will see enormous wobbly people of both genders exposing almost everything as they strip off to burn their skin an unappealing shade of lobster red.
I don't think that the human body in general is an attractive thing. Watch a little youtube and you'll see how flawless they can make anyone's skin, eyes, teeth and figure. What might help you, if you're feeling really stuck, would be to get someone to photoshop up a picture of you which might improve the image you have in your head of yourself.
The real thing is however to let go of the idea that appearances determine your value as a person. If people love you, if you are kind and compassionate and a positive presence in people's lives, then to them you will be a beautiful person. Next time you find yourself feeling down about your appearance have a little look at some of the real problems people face all over the world. Rather than spend £5 on some anti-wrinkle cream, give £5 to support communities in Mozambique or Afghanistan. Radiance comes from within and confidence does not revolve around believing others think well of your appearance, but being who you truly are inside and not selling out because of what others may or may not think. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/28/2008 5:15:03 AM | I have to tell you straight up. Most guys have body image issues."
I think many men also have other self-image issues as well, and that explains a lot of dysfunction in sexuality and relationships. I think both sexes have to deal with much higher expectations being placed on them by both modern society and in relationships. Men these days seem to have the traditional emphasis on being 'successful' in an increasingly competitive and ruthless world, economically speaking, as well as have better emotional qualities, ability to manage more intangible things in a relationship like communication and emotional intimacy, as well as being sexually able to perform and also able to please a woman in various ways.
Women also have increasing pressures being placed on them by both society, culture, advertising, and peer pressures. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/28/2008 2:31:08 PM | I always find it ironic that people continue to point a demonizing finger at "The Media" as the source of all women's woes, when in 99% of the cases, that media is created by women. (I'm talking magazines like Cosmo, etc.)
That said, yes confidence is a dealbreaker, but not in terms of body image - in terms of being too scared to speak directly. If a woman is so insecure and non-confrontational that she can't tell you something, and spends all her time lying and deflecting you rather than talk about it... *that* is a dealbreaker.
As for men...
Men have always had issues, as well - but not usually related to their body. Men are always, and have always, been expected to "man up", or "be a man". Be a good provider, be amazing in bed... what's the first criticism a woman throws around here on the forums when she disagrees with a man's point of view? "A *real* man would..." - and what's the second? Laugh at his (perceived) shortcomings in the penis department.
Our masculinity is almost constantly under attack. Every mistake we makes means we "don't have the balls" to "be a real man", or that we don't "measure up".
And this has been going on for a long time - as long as, if not longer, than women and their body issues. After all, being cuckholded is not a concept that was born in the early '90s.
Your butt size, our d*ck size - I really don't see a difference. We're all under attack from all sides, and the sooner we stop feeding into the cycle on all fronts, the sooner we'll move past it.
But I don't really have much hope. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/28/2008 9:06:39 PM | I liked what he beautiful Miss Eyre wrote. I have scars and missing pieces because of a car accident, but I feel OK about what I look like and don't hide it. Some people area are really turned off by what I look like, but plenty accept me for who I am.
-Violet | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/28/2008 10:44:06 PM | Aitche,
If some of your own self-consciousness and lack of confidence/bad body image comes from not seeing enough real life women, maybe you should take some time to visit one of those nude venues to see for yourself. You will definitely see that women of all shapes and sizes show up and go ahead and get some sun on those hidden bits. :-) Other than that, maybe you could look into some counseling where you could practice some confidence building exercises.
For myself, I do have super supportive friends who compliment me on different aspects (hair, smile, outfit, etc) on a regular basis and it is very nice. However, I've also had to get to a point where if I want to be an outgoing, happy person then I just have to ignore a lot of negativity. I'm bombarded everyday, usually indirectly thank goodness, by people saying how digusting an obese woman is or how much of an
economic drain fat people are or that we're all stupid, undisciplined binge eaters who can't control their need to eat bad food. If I let that get to me everyday, I'd be a basket case and I'd probably emotionally eat myself into an even bigger body! Of course, I'm not always totally successful, but I do my best.
Also, part of that is not letting myself be ashamed of my body even though I think it needs a lot of improvement. For instance - I've gone to a local nudist area, several times, and I love it! I love being naked outside, it's invigorating. I'm sure there have been people there who wanted me to cover up and there have been people who have made me uncomfortable with how much they enjoyed looking, lol. But I'll tell you something - while you can't help but see people, it's not about ogling someone else, it's about enjoying yourself. Along those lines, I also don't worry about how my body looks when I'm having sex. I don't jump back into my clothes right afterwards, I don't hide under the covers and I don't turn out the light if I don't want to. I'm not so much confident that I look gorgeous naked, I don't think I do, but I REFUSE to let such a thing as cellulite, back fat, dimples, fat rolls, etc keep me from enjoying my life.
I hope that helps, dunno if it will. You certainly don't have to be fat to have body issues but if you can't change it then focus on the things you like and try to let the rest sort itself out. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/29/2008 4:38:27 AM | wow, not so much compassion from some people!
I think a good way to answer a confidence problem is by doing a little investigating.
Ask yourself some of these questions:
Think back to your earliest memories and go through them to where you are now and think have you ever had confidence? So the answer is no. Why not, what possibly has happened in all your up bringing that would sap this from you? A role model maybe said something early on, things were implied by them, comments made by to many poeple over time?
So is your lack of confidence only prevelent when it comes to your body? Ask yourself this, why are you so confident in other areas of life? What made you confident? Did you have to use positive reinforcement to get confident like I can do this?
Do you have any fears that might hinder your confidence?
Are you overly concerned about what people think of you?
In my experience confidence comes from mental self worth which all starts in the head. I find exercising and growing my knowledge helps with confidence because a healthy mind thinks more positively as well as more sun. Telling yourself you can do it or that your beautiful and keeping more tabs on your success then failures really helps to. In the end confidence is also gained from overcoming your fear by putting yourself out there outside your paradigm and act confident in a situation with a guy in a way you normally wouldn't. For example he wants you to be confident in the bedroom, then rip of the clothes, don't be shy, put him on the bottom and know he will love all that is you! After you succeed at pulling it off the butterfly's will dissapear and you'll have gained confidence. Also try not to be so sensitive if you are a sensitive person. If he says your beautiful, believe him, don't argue and don't self doubt.
I hope this helped. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/29/2008 12:41:40 PM | What a nice post, Imp78. You have a great attitude, and i love the way you have contradicted negative feelings though your actions.
-Violet | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/30/2008 10:36:37 AM | | I like confident women, sassy can be cute. But she has to understand when to keep her mouth shut to. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/30/2008 11:39:03 AM | Try to remember you're going to trade imperfections, no matter who your with.
Ulitmately it's the spirit of the person that counts. | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/30/2008 11:41:31 AM | | Aitche - put it this way, no matter how bad you think you look naked - you'll always be way hotter than any naked man in the room! That alone ought to make you feel better... | |
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| Confidence and body image
Posted: 3/30/2008 12:40:13 PM | | I prefer women who don't care about how sexy they are. They know they are sexy but they have a good heart and they are not egotistical. Everyone is self-conscious of their bodies and faces. I like a girl who isn't confident as a result of their body-image...ut shouldn't be a factor. That being said, it is obviously very difficult to not be conscious of your body. However, I try to mitigate the awareness of my sexiness and would look for the same in a woman. | |
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