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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/4/2008 10:37:45 PM | Here's my point. We live in a time where men and women can handle everything on their own. We all make enough money, pay our own bills and cover our own needs. The only thing we can't do alone is have a sexual connection with someone. All that emotional stuff is just another part of that connection.
Think about it, other than sex what do you have to gain by pair bonding (assuming you don't want children) with another person?
You may not like hearing it said this way, but I can't think of any other reason to get close to someone. I have everything I need. And the LAST thing I want is a needy woman! | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/4/2008 11:29:03 PM | Dunno - I mean I'm 49 and I think it's still kind of the same - except of course my date isn't picking me up in an exhaust spewing big motor ex-race car with a cooler full of rolling rock in the back seat on route to a party in an abandoned quarry ....
And as far as the "special" moment - that's still there. Even to the point of being "together". Perhaps this is more in my mind - haven't been on the dating scene for the last 8 or 9 years but it still seems to be the same.
Bar scene has definitely changed though. I hang sometimes with some much younger guys on some city mtb runs (haven's seen much of them though in the past year) and we zoom the city and land at a bar and - it's just so much different - suddenly I feel my age. Oh well | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 12:03:18 AM | Scoundrel in message 154 said:
Think about it, other than sex what do you have to gain by pair bonding (assuming you don't want children) with another person
What about a partnership? What about sharing a wealth of dreams and pleasures with an individual who brings out the best in you and visa versa? How about building something meaningful with a person you are in love with, whom you cherish, who is your best friend and lover, who will stand by you through the good and the bad, through erectile dysfunction or any debilitating illness and visa versa. What about creating a life together that suits both of your needs that you can both be proud of? Maybe you want to go after a second career and she supports you, or maybe she wants to go back to school to be an artist and you support her dreams. It's about sharing something meaningful. It's about love. It's about creating a special, one of a kind relationship/partnership that endures. This is what most women desire..even in these times, even after being burned and divorced.
But what you are saying above is that you see sex as the only reason to be involved with a woman. From my perception, you're implying that you're just looking for a "friend with sexual benefits" who doesn't impose much in the friend category and that's fine-- you're obviously honest about it. Nothing wrong with that. I'm glad you're not misleading anyone. It's the men who blatantly lie on their profiles and when you're meeting them, who intentionally mislead women regarding their desires and expectations that I would have absolutely no respect for. Those who are basically seeking a sex partner should simply make that clear upfront on their profiles so that they can in turn be matched up with those who feel the same. Then everybody's happy. Problems only occur when people are mismatched and have different expectations of one another. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 12:33:53 AM |
What about a partnership? What about sharing a wealth of dreams and pleasures with an individual who brings out the best in you and visa versa?
Someone that brings out the best in me? I can do that on my own. Can't you?
How about building something meaningful with a person you are in love with, whom you cherish, who is your best friend and lover, who will stand by you through the good and the bad, through erectile dysfunction or any debilitating illness and visa versa.
LOL No one stands with you through the good and bad. Sure, through the good, but when things ger hard, when you can't get your needs fulfilled you are out. It's called divorce and it happens more often than not.
What about creating a life together that suits both of your needs that you can both be proud of? Maybe you want to go after a second career and she supports you, or maybe she wants to go back to school to be an artist and you support her dreams. It's about sharing something meaningful. It's about love. It's about creating a special, one of a kind relationship/partnership that endures. This is what most women desire..even in these times, even after being burned and divorced.
I'm proud of my life right now and I want my lover to be the same.
Love... I don't even know what that means anymore. I understand feeling a connection with another person. Feeling that spark. But, that doesn't last more than a few years tops.
If that is what most women desire, most women are co-dependent!
But what you are saying above is that you see sex as the only reason to be involved with a woman. From my perception, you're implying that you're just looking for a "friend with sexual benefits" who doesn't impose much in the friend category and that's fine-- you're obviously honest about it. Nothing wrong with that. I'm glad you're not misleading anyone. It's the men who blatantly lie on their profiles and when you're meeting them, who intentionally mislead women regarding their desires and expectations that I would have absolutely no respect for. Those who are basically seeking a sex partner should simply make that clear upfront on their profiles so that they can in turn be matched up with those who feel the same. Then everybody's happy. Problems only occur when people are mismatched and have different expectations of one another.
What I said was my life is complete. I'm very happy with it just the way it is. If ANY woman has something to offer me that I don't already (other than sex) I'd like to know what it is.
I'd love to meet a woman that could hold my attention longer than a few months without driving me nuts. If I ever find her I'll hang on like a pit bull dog. But, I can't see any reason to go without sex in the mean time. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 6:00:08 AM | Re Message 157 LOL! see that's what I thought he was talkin' about...and I still agree. I don't think he was catagorically ruling out any of the things like caring, friendship, committment, etc...he's just saying that he expects to see some OTHER things TOO...and first. Again, I'm stating what I see written "between the lines' which is he wants a TRUE equal in a relationship.....so, what's wrong with that?
See, hugsnhisses got it too:
You won't - you'll 'hang on like a pitbull', just like you stated. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 7:03:25 AM | | Men always hope you will, ummm, on the first date. lol If they didn't they wouldn't be men. However, not that many expect it. However, what they do expect I've found is that if the relationship doesn't turn physical after awhile, they think they are wasting their time. And in reality, how do you, or he know you want to be together until that happens. I will Never be in a long term relationship with a man I don't enjoy in EVERY way again. I went 30+ yrs where it was all about him and what he enjoyed, never again. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:35:29 AM | See in my view this is the more glaring truth.
Think about it, other than sex what do you have to gain by pair bonding(assuming you don't want children) with another person?
You may not like hearing it said this way, but I can't think of any other reason to get close to someone.
No one stands with you through the good and bad. Sure, through the good, but when things ger hard, when you can't get your needs fulfilled you are out. It's called divorce and it happens more often than not.
^^^^Even more telling. My bet is the no one is the reflection in the mirror.
Love... I don't even know what that means anymore. I understand feeling a connection with another person. Feeling that spark. But, that doesn't last more than a few years tops.
If that is what most women desire, most women are co-dependent!
If ANY woman has something to offer me that I don't already (other than sex) I'd like to know what it is.
I'd love to meet a woman that could hold my attention longer than a few months without driving me nuts. If I ever find her I'll hang on like a pit bull dog. But, I can't see any reason to go without sex in the mean time.
There are plenty more of these gems elsewhere on the site.
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 9:24:05 AM | Your point, bondblueyed?
Yes, I do confess, men and women are interested in sex. One reason is because it leads to deeper emotions and long term commitments. I never really got how people developed the idea that deeper emotions and long term commitments lead to sex. Most LTR couples, and psychologists and sociologists will tell you straight up that the incidence of sexual interaction within a LTR declines with time. Yet, here are all these comments that people wish things to proceed from the emotional/commitment to the sexual. If nature worked that way, nobody would ever split up. They would be to exhausted to get out of bed! | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 9:32:47 AM | Sometimes I honestly have to say that dating is a war. A war of the wits" Always seem to have to try and be one step ahead.
Blue eyed has nailed it. A person's posting history tells the tale. And, it does become a war of the "wits", as Ms. Moon posted.
Some posters make it quite clear what their agenda for a relationship is, not only on this forum but others, as well. Not making a judgement, just an observation.
Why can't people be up-front about their motives for dating, rather than saying one thing on their profiles and something different in forums, emails and first meetings? | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 9:36:41 AM | I think we're reading a little too much into a fairly innocuous statement. I'm sure that if anyone were to apply some of the statements to a specific set of circumstances, they'd see it as a "more glaring truth"....but the fact is.....it's general. So, generally speaking.....this is an OVER 45 forum. I'm female....and to be honest, I ask the SAME questions myself. You're OVER 45....you're probably not wanting to give birth to any more children, so you don't need a man for that. You've got a great job, make plenty of money, got your 401K, you own your own home, your own car, you've got friends that you do things with. The deciding factor has to be...what's LEFT? I'm sorry.....but what's left is intimacy. The kind of intimacy that men and women have together.
I'd really not put too much weight on anyone of either sex saying that "they don't know what love is"....that's something that I think EVERYONE says at some point in their life. It's not a philosophy of life....it's just a passing statement, venting frustration, confusion...whatever. When he said that HE couldn't think of another reason to get close to someone....several women rushed to ram the "committment and caring" thing down the poor guys throat....and quite frankly, I never saw him rule those things out, in fact....he admitted that IF he found a woman who wasn't "co-dependent" he'd hang onto her like a pit bull. (his own words).
LOL! this kinda reminds me of a Star Trek (TNG) episode, where they're trying to figure out whether the alien ship is trying to tell them what they HAVE.....or what they NEED. I certainly wouldn't hope that a man putting sex at the top of his list of "needs" is anymore telling that a woman putting "committment" at the top of hers. If so, then are women who put committment at the top saying that they've ruled out sex??? Of course not! (I hope) No, no moreso than men are saying that they've ruled out committment (well, other than the ones who have! LOL!) just because they also want sex. Let's face it....for several millenia men have put sex in at least the top 2 of their priorities.....they still get married and become henpecked husbands and good fathers, they still go to work everyday.....and they STILL don't get it why women (generalization) aren't happy in the fact that they've complied with all our damn rules...and they're still not getting what they wanted. We can't just continue to hold out for "words"...when their actions are speaking volumes...but we can't hear it, because it's not the same as how WE do it. ONLY 10-12% of "communication" is verbal. Women tend to be much better at verbal communication than men, I think that for about the last 30 yrs we (women) have been really beating the men up to get them to be better at verbal communication....when do WE take the responsibility of getting better at THEIR forms of communication?
Don't go getting yer garterbelts in a bunch now....I'm sure I'm not saying what you probably think I'm saying.....not promoting promiscuity, casual sex or anything else....but for goodness sakes...can we even let the guys MENTION it without lambasting him. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 10:38:16 AM | I understand that you aren't so why would you defend statements that are obviously promoting it. In fact stating unequivocally that it is because there is no woman that can possibly match his easily bored personality. All the blame again is placed on women, they are needy, commitment hungry vipers because he can't stay focused for longer than 8 or 12 weeks let alone years. These are not the first statements of this nature.
I would venture to guess that this is likely impossible for someone to have
rushed to ram the "committment and caring" thing down the poor guys throat.…
with one that does not stay around long enough to get to that point.
...and quite frankly, I never saw him rule those things out, in fact....he admitted that IF he found a woman who wasn't "co-dependent" he'd hang onto her like a pit bull. (his own words).
It is ruled out before the meet, blame is also on women wanting anything not willing to be given, which doesn’t appear to be much, well except sex, of course. At least she is getting that for awhile anyway. I guess the possibility that someone could have an unusually low attention span in the first place couldn‘t be the problem. I have seen many women make reference to wanting to find a teddy bear type but a pit bull? Not so much, that gives me more of an impression of someone that would not let go until forced. Doesn’t sound very appealing to me. Besides, low attention span guy turning into a pit bull with the only special woman on the planet? Hmmm, I don't see it happening. This sounds nothing more like a thread being turned into another women are only good for sex because they bring nothing else to my table rant and again hasn't changed and isn't new.
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 11:54:00 AM | Every time I see a thread like this I find you, scoundrel, in the middle of it talking trash about women only being good for sex, only going out with a woman to get sex, etc, etc.
Guys like you and I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it, make it hard for women to ever think they can trust meeting men on here.
I'd like to think you're really all BS and just say these stupid things to incite riots. I sure hope your dad had more respect for your Mom than you have for women. Now I'm just going to go away and leave this thread, you always pee me off with that cave man attitude of yours.
Robin | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 8:11:34 PM | Actually, I'm grateful that guys like Scoundrel are fairly vocal about their feelings. I think it's super that men who don't want commitment, who aren't into finding a serious, meaningful relationship show themselves as quickly as possible. It makes my job easier and I can pass and continuing seeking for what will work for me. I don't think the problem is Scoundrel's attitude even. This is just the way he is and he's looking for what will work for him. It's the way many men these days are.
Let's face it, ladies, a lot of men have already been married, had their kids, lost their homes, got their divorces, paid their alimony and don't care to go through anything even remotely similar to that again. The word "commitment" takes them back down memory lane and their backward glance is jaded, bitter, and to be avoided at all costs. They probably look forward to a friend with benefits style relation that is non demanding, low maintenance, and cost efficient. I think there are also plenty of like minded women that are there for these men, who are their mirror images. So all the better-- these kinds of couples need to make this clear to rest of the fish in the dating pond in advance (like Scoundrel just did) and get together because they will be a perfect fit for one another.
Now as to the rest of us, I don't think things have changed that much in the dating world for those who value what I already went over in message 156. The men who really seek and desire something meaningful that will endure are on the same page as we are, ladies, they just may not be as vocal about it as we are. I think the key is to simply not be in a hurry and enjoy life while you're keeping your eyes open for them. Put yourself out there into the stream of life and trust in something you believe in to bring the right kind of man to you. I know men who want the full relationship package are the exception rather then the rule, but they are out here and we will eventually hook up with them if we are wise, discerning, and patient. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/5/2008 9:08:17 PM |
Let's face it, ladies, a lot of men have already been married, had their kids, lost their homes, got their divorces, paid their alimony and don't care to go through anything even remotely similar to that again. LOL!! Sometimes twice. But this has nothing to do with being jaded. Think of it:
- Marry one, she gets a BF ---> Lose Half.
- Marry her, she develops a taste for vodka and pills ---> Lose 3/4+alimony.
When you're in love, there's respect, but that goes out the window when love dies, and it always does. There are only so many times we can realistically do this. If family and divorce courts were neutral then things would be different.
I could say "Blame yourselves for being quiet while radical feminists hijacked your voice", but I believe women are quiet in case they need to use them in the future. And they do. When was the last time you heard a woman tell a judge, "Oh, I don't want alimony your honor. We both made the mistake of marrying."
Week at my place and a week at hers is the most that will ever happen with me. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/6/2008 9:37:22 AM |
That, my dear, is exactly the same thing we have all been referring to, albeit in slightly different terms. When the day comes where you do find that woman, all cynicism about 'love' will fall to the wayside, and you will fall just as hard and be just as able to enjoy her being an integral part of your life, as we all will, when we finally find 'the one'. And that is as it should be. Why relegate someone that special to a FWB status? You won't - you'll 'hang on like a pitbull', just like you stated.
Hnh
I’m not a cynic, I’m a realest. That feeling isn’t meant to last. Just enjoy it while you have it, knowing it will one day go and it’s even sweeter. This is human nature. To deny our nature is to deny being human. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/6/2008 1:00:53 PM |
I’m not a cynic, I’m a realest. That feeling isn’t meant to last. Just enjoy it while you have it, knowing it will one day go and it’s even sweeter. This is human nature. To deny our nature is to deny being human.
You said it. That feeling isn't meant to last. But there are other feelings that replace that "swept off your feet" type of feeling. They are deeper, less selfishly based feelings and they are more akin to real "love" (the agape kind versus the eros kind). One is based on lust, (eros), and the other on more of an unconditional type of love, (agape). In the ideal relationship, both manage to still be present to some degree. In other words, successful relationships can still be sexual and the partners are still attracted to one another even into their seventies but their love is mature and based on much more than that transient romantic feeling they began the relationship with.
Marriage/partnership requires maturity and mature love in order to succeed. The reason that most people's marriages/relationships don't last is because they can't endure past when the transient lust feeling begins to fade; thus the relationship is not able to develop into the next stage. They get bored too quickly and too easily.
Getting bored before mature love can take place in your relationships is not a sign of maturity. This bodes staying at a certain place in your relationships where you are essentially stuck on the adrenaline rush of brand new romance. No, eros can't last because it's not an enduring thing. You're supposed to move to the next stage and experience real love with another human being, which is based on a lot more than lust. Obviously not everyone will choose to do so, but I think this is how we were made by our creator or whatever designed us. We were meant for mature love, not for the brief, fickle, for the moment, "friend with benefits" relationships this era is now embracing.
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/6/2008 2:53:18 PM | That whole initial lust thing is wonderful, and a high in and of it self, that is actually addictive for some people. But at our age we should all know that is the way the species was created, in order to procreate. It is, in it's simplest form, merely a hormonal hyper-mechanism in place to guarantee the survival of a species.
So, of course things aren't going to stay that exact same way as the first three or six months of a new relationship generally are.
To expect that it should, is unrealistic. Now having said that, I also don't get those who go from 100/mph to a grinding halt in 10 seconds flat, once that 'honeymoon phase' is over. It leaves one sitting there, wondering: "wtf happened?"
Barring illness, a healthy relationship requires that all things, including those of a sexual nature, remain nurtured in order to survive past merely fulfilling a sex addict's fantasy come true.
hnh
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/6/2008 4:57:15 PM | | I aways wait until I'm in a serious relationship.I always leave it up to the woman to make the first move.If they want to have sex right away then get rid of them.Remember your values and ethics and don't feel pressured into giving yourself up.He can't wait he's not worth it , move on.You deserve better. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/6/2008 7:58:50 PM | What happens to me is when I get a few of these forward dates in a row and have a really confrontational time with them, and telling them to back off, I just get so fed up and disenchanted, that I will take like a year and not date anyone, because of a few a-holes who don`t know how to be a human being. My feelings really get hurt and I internalize that there is something wrong with me that they are not respecting me.
So when I hear from guys that is is all my fault that this happens that I pick the wrong ones ( Who the F knows who is going to get like this on a date- you never know what freak comes out, and no, there aren`t always signs.) I just decide, well there must be something wrong with me just like the guys say. So I`ll just quit dating totally.
I hear all the time, " man you are so nice and cute and great personality,why in the heck are you always alone? " the answer to that is " I have just run into too many a-holes and I am just fed up." | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/7/2008 2:57:38 PM | It most definitely not like it use to be 30 yeara ago, a lot has changed since then, I guess the older ones don't feel they much time left to get back to the swing of things. I myself feel I have plenty of time still. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/7/2008 3:07:35 PM | I agree someone I met wanted to be friends but still get the benefits like being in a serious relationship, well that was put to a hault right away. | |
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| Boy have things changed in the dating world!
Posted: 4/7/2008 3:28:35 PM |
I hear all the time, " man you are so nice and cute and great personality,why in the heck are you always alone? " the answer to that is " I have just run into too many a-holes and I am just fed up."
It sounds like you've been meeting the wrong men. I hope you realize that there are a lot of good men out there that would like to meet a woman who is "nice and cute with a great personality". Don't give up. We are out here. | |
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And that is as it should be. Why relegate someone that special to a FWB status? You won't - you'll 'hang on like a pitbull', just like you stated. 
