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| | My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dadsPage 4 of 18 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18) | Butter-cup Just look at your child that should be appreciation enough. no one else but your child. Look at that smile fell the joy when you feed it ,fell the love that your child needs. Most of all give it that love, then someday you will feel the appreciation,not only in your own heart but also that of your childs. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/2/2008 9:43:42 PM | OP msg 75: "I appreciate the efforts of all part-time dads. However, I often feel under appreciated for doing it alone."
ButterCup, I APPRECIATE YOU AND WHAT YOU'VE DONE. Raising a family when it has two parents in the household is difficult at best. However, those people chose to have children (in most cases) and raise their family. It was their choice. In the event of a split of the family dynamic, more choices are made....someone stepped up and said "I can do it better" and was 'rewarded'. Then when times are tough, they come to the realization that it ain't so easy. They can't second-guess their original choice....OMG, you mean you wish you hadn't gotten custody??? What kind of parent are you??!! So, the easy way out, is to point at the NCP and say (or think) "Damn, you don't know how easy you have it. Even though I've got what I asked/fought for."
Might be justified in saying or thinking that. What good does it do? How long does the satisfaction of getting it off your chest last??? Probably until the kids get off the bus, bust through the door hollering, "Mom or Dad....can I get something to eat???"...and you're snapped back into reality.
You're in the situation you're in due in some part to your own choices....own them. But as I stated above, YOU ARE APPRECIATED. And I would expect you to appreciate your ex if he were in your shoes.
~ds~ | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/2/2008 10:40:18 PM |
Say I was to have a 50/50 arrangement, and I was to earn $100,000.00 a year, my child support to my child would be $880 a month. If my x was to have just taken a job earning $30,000.00 a year, her child support to the child would be $245/month. So the net outcome is that I would owe $635 to my child/month in support. I believe that’s fair. I further think that any decision should vary based on how much time a parent gets to spent with their child beyond the 60/40 limit. I also think that lets say 5 years later, my x, although capable has decided that she just wants to live off the money I pay in support to MY CHILD a month, that considerations should be made. The biggest thing I can suggest is that child support should not be paid to the other parent, but rather possibly in trust to the child, and subject to review if required to make sure the money is being spend appropriately
Well you live in Alberta and you have 2 children......so your support is $1,428 per month. That is $548 more than you have used as an illustration. But you are doing it based on 1 child.
But your offset calculation for determining cs has been not upheld in the Supreme Court of Canada a couple of years ago.
Contino v. Leonelli‑Contino, [2005] 3 S.C.R. 217,
2.2.3 Section 9(c) — Conditions, Means, Needs and Other Circumstances
54 It is clear then that not every dollar spent by a parent in exercising access over the 40 percent threshold results in a dollar saved by the recipient parent: Green v. Green, at para. 27. Professor Rogerson refers to this at pp. 20-21:
On the other hand, allowing such an adjustment raises many concerns. Increased time spent with a child does not necessarily entail increased spending on the child. Furthermore, dollars spent by an access or secondary custodial parent do not necessarily translate into a dollar for dollar reduction in expenditures by the primary custodial parent, many of whose major child‑related costs are fixed — such as housing and transportation; any savings will typically be only with respect to a small category of expenditures for food and entertainment. Particularly in cases where there is a significant disparity in income between the parents, reductions in the basic amount of child support may undermine a lower‑income custodial parent’s ability to make adequate provision for the child or children, and will certainly exacerbate the differences in standard of living between the two parental homes.
Indeed, irrespective of the residential arrangement, it is possible to presume, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the recipient parent’s fixed costs have remained unchanged and that his or her variable costs have been reduced only modestly by the increased access. Thus, when no evidence is adduced, the court should recognize the status quo regarding the recipient parent.
In this case a ncp who saw his time spent with his child rise over the 40% threshold was denied lowering his cs obligations in the manner that you have suggested as fair. They have suggested that a custodial parents costs are fixed which leads to the suggestion that the revenue has then been viewed as a secondary supplementary income source which is what only spousal support is meant to be. The judgement seems to suggest that the payor needs to be paying to supplement what the other parent is unable to provide themselves.
I also take issue with your kindness in respect to the mother not working. The law is already very well established in respect to deliberately under-employing one self to avoid cs obligations. if the father chooses to not work or deliberately under employ himself to avoid paying then the courts simply establish past earning history and based on work history and education determine a cs amount and that is the judgement. A mother or primary custodial parent who decides to not work or one having a child in a second relationship should have this same standard applied to her. You impute the income based on her work history and education and impute an income to determine cs obligations and find the legal application of the new rules under offsetting incomes.
But then how many people earn $100,000 per year? And why have you married so far below your economic level. The reality is often both parents are earning a similar income level. And sometimes even one sees the lower income earner paying the higher income earner......so you want to talk fair?
So why not talk about parents who both earn $50,000 and who has the more disposable income. They are both looking to parent the children. they are both looking to have a home to live in and to provide a quality of living with their children. Why not talk about the normal wage earner?
And i love your car? What would it put you back? $70,000...Easy to make comments about what is fair or moral statements when you pull down that type of earning potential?
I also think that any considerations on support should be directly influenced by the parents current situation and income status. If my x was not working, but was married to a multi millionaire, I should not be expected to pay the $880 a month, the fact that her lifestyle and access to funds should factor in.
Well the income or household income is only used if you are trying to claim undue hardship. There are numerous women's groups who would suggest that it is not the responsibility of the second husband to support the children and he is not expected to. LOL..Unless of course he separates or divorces from the mother of the step children then the rules seem to change? and some mothers seem to support this premise which again underlines that they are more interested in making the ex pay than they are finding equitable solutions...So fair or not...if your ex marries you will be paying the full amount of cs unless you can have her obligations imputed to lower your own cs obligations.....that is fair to some...or they call it paying your responsibilities....but your ex wife who can only earn $30,000 traded her $100,000 per year husband for a millionaire and I bet you would suggest she only did it for Love..... | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/2/2008 11:48:47 PM | Your correct, I accidentally used the amount for 1 child in my illustration. Thank you for the correction. That illustration would also be based solely on a 50/50 split, and other factors such as child-related costs can change that.
I think that we are actually saying the same thing about a parent intentionally under-employing themselves to avoid paying more, I agree that the parent that doesn’t work specifically to get more should have the same standards applied to them.
I was only using the numbers I provided as example, personally I share 50/50 custody, and my x and I have very close to the same income, I believe she may be actually earning more than me now. I don’t pay nor receive CS, which could change if I or her earn more, and I’m fine with that, and we split the additional cost of childcare, clubs, sports, education savings fairly.
I didn’t mean to offend, and your correct, I should have used possibly $50k as a example of the normal wage earner, I just picked that number off the top of my head.
Why are you making this a personal attack? And my car? If you take a look at my profile, you’ll clearly see I state that the car isn’t mine, It’s just a nice picture, this has nothing to do with me personally, or my earning potential, which I’m not going to get into here either. I was commenting more in supporting paying CS in a 50/50 split custody arrangement due to differences in income potential but the issues this raises in different situations with regards to a previous post which said a 50% custody with no support, and everyone carries their own weight was the answer.
Again, it was only a example of what I think could be considered in different cases to get rid of some of the current systems issues. It has nothing to do with my situation. Personally, If I was that multimillionaire, and I was considering getting involved with a single mother with kids, and If we were married, It’s not just a 2 person relationship, it’s a family, and I’d think it my responsibility as well to support the children in some way. Possibly beyond the marriage to some point as well, but perhaps only for a period of time.
I don’t think the current system is perfect, I do think that biological parents should be responsible for their children, and to a lesser extent their previous partner in some cases for a period of time after a relationship ends. I do think that a non-biological parent that’s gotten involved with a partner with kids is also getting involved with the kids, and should take some responsibility for that, and the whole situation needs to be looked at on a case by case basis, and a simple fit all calculation will never work. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 12:09:32 AM | Well researched! If I needed a family laywer... I agree that most expenses relating to child custody are fixed. As I see it, often, the dad spends fun money and mom spends invisible money in the eyes of the child.
I felt that West Park 2's statements regarding parents of similiar income earning potential tend to marry. Perhaps true, even though literature suggests that woman only make 70cents to the dollar a man makes and tends to work in the lower status jobs compared to men. This will show up in relationships.. lawyer/paralegal, doctor/MOA, Salesman/retail clerk, etc.
However, upon a divorce, woman's social status always declines and many end up in poverty. The man will not suffer from the same decline in income, and may fair better with fewer people to support on his income, even with the transfer. (My ex told me that he can't afford to give me all of the child support today, but I am sure that I can not afford to go without it... How can he say that he can't afford $200 with his 100+ income, while we subsist below 15K. Will he claim undue hardship now?
also take issue with your kindness in respect to the mother not working. The law is already very well established in respect to deliberately under-employing one self to avoid cs obligations. if the father chooses to not work or deliberately under employ himself to avoid paying then the courts simply establish past earning history and based on work history and education determine a cs amount and that is the judgement. A mother or primary custodial parent who decides to not work or one having a child in a second relationship should have this same standard applied to her. You impute the income based on her work history and education and impute an income to determine cs obligations and find the legal application of the new rules under offsetting incomes.
I might not understand your point in this paragraph, as I have a hard time establishing that a mother could be painted with the same brush to be under-employed on purpose like a man may for the purposes of evading/gaining child support. It doesn't matter how much I work, my child is still legally entitled to child support based on his father's income. In my case I work part-time to increase family income. Even though I am legally entitled to a maternity leave, taking it would result living deeper in poverty.
A common comment is that a mother should be able to make a proper living while the kids are in school for six hours a day. Children are not in school until they are 6 years old. After a woman has dropped out of her career for one year or more, it is difficult to get a job at a high income, and certainly not comparable to a man who maintains his career uninterupted, especially if she is solely responsible if her kid gets sick and she has to leave on a moments notice. If I had not stayed home to care for children (his and then mine), my income would be four times greater than it is now. Child support is the equalizer to give children a better life.
This is drifting into the child support debate.
I want child support paying dads to understand that child support payments is money well spent! I challenge dads who try to nickle and dime away the child support to consider that the child support only covers a share of the "expense" of the child (like the roof, clothing and food) and doesn't "pay" anyone to parent. We do that out of love. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 1:22:56 AM |
After a woman has dropped out of her career for one year or more, it is difficult to get a job at a high income, and certainly not comparable to a man who maintains his career uninterupted, especially if she is solely responsible if her kid gets sick and she has to leave on a moments notice. If I had not stayed home to care for children (his and then mine), my income would be four times greater than it is now. In my opinion, that's not what child support's for, that's what alimony is for. But that's a whole different discussion that's bound to upset lots of people.
I want child support paying dads to understand that child support payments is money well spent! I agree. Child support should be quite simply money that is used to provide for the child. It's not to give the custodial parent a cushy life. It's not to punish the non-custodial parent. It is to support the child (hence the name. Pretty clever, isn't it?). That being said, I can't understand why some parents try to avoid it.
I spend as much time as possible with my kids, and voluntarily (there is no court order at this time) contribute as much as I can financially as well. Once a court order is in place, if my ex came to me and said "I need extra money this month because one of the kids needs something" I'd give her the money if I had it. It's not about the money, and it's not about your ex. It's about the kids.
Then again, it helps that I know that my ex would hate to ask and would only do so if the kids really needed the money. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 4:25:08 AM | Buttercup
I appreciate the efforts of all part-time dads. However, I often feel under appreciated for doing it alone
I think thats the main issue here really isnt it?
But who are you expecting that appreciation from? You're still very much in the early stages of parenting and from the sounds of things..its seems like thing may be getting on top of you. We 'choose' to be parents and then its our responsibility do our best by our kids. There are rewards in the form of the experience. But appreciation isnt something that should come into play as a parent. If you think that is something that should come with having and caring for a child then it sounds like you have other issues that you will probably need to address and that is far more important for yourself and your child. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 6:11:39 AM | I am a father who happens to be single. My children are legally with me 50% of the time. I am a member of the PTO at my childrens school. I attend their sporting and school events even on the weeks they have to go to their moms. What label can I use that your group will not have a beef with?
Also, I have never been a single mom so I do not know what challenges you face, but I think I would disagree that you have it the hardest. If anything, single mothers and single fathers have it about the same. Think about how hard it would be to have a judge tell you you can only see your children every other weekend and have the mother of your children agree with the judge. Think about how hard it would be to maintain a relationship with your children who you only get to see for 4 or 5 days a month. If single mothers are really upset about their challenges, go to court and ask the judge to give the father more time with the children. Or better yet, just offer it without court order. I think you would be surprised how many fathers would jump at the chance to take on more responsibility with their children. Of course I am aware there are fathers out there who want as little to do with their children as they can. But they are the minority and should not be representative of the majority.
Phew, I rambled. I would love to hear your groups reaction to the points I have raised.
Jim
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 6:26:49 AM | Well researched! If I needed a family laywer... I agree that most expenses relating to child custody are fixed. As I see it, often, the dad spends fun money and mom spends invisible money in the eyes of the child. As I see it, and lived it, dads spends fun money with the kids at the expence of dad sacraficing things he needs or wants. Mom spends fun money to take herself on a two week trip to puerto rico, and a month long trip to mexico, lets the kids go without. All this on a part time salary, oh and my support check.
However, upon a divorce, woman's social status always declines and many end up in poverty. The man will not suffer from the same decline in income, and may fair better with fewer people to support on his income, even with the transfer. (My ex told me that he can't afford to give me all of the child support today, but I am sure that I can not afford to go without it... How can he say that he can't afford $200 with his 100+ income, while we subsist below 15K. Will he claim undue hardship now? Can't answer for your ex. In my situation, I paid 40% of my wages for support, after taxes. So my social status declined. I go without while she is doing what I stated in the paragraph above.
I might not understand your point in this paragraph, as I have a hard time establishing that a mother could be painted with the same brush to be under-employed on purpose like a man may for the purposes of evading/gaining child support. It doesn't matter how much I work, my child is still legally entitled to child support based on his father's income. In my case I work part-time to increase family income. Even though I am legally entitled to a maternity leave, taking it would result living deeper in poverty. I don't have a hard time believing you think this way. You work part time to get by, rather then trying to make a better life for yourself and your child. Who has to make up the difference. In other words, you are saying its ok for a mom to work a part time job and live off support checks, but a father has to work more and more to make more just to get by, which in turn, causes them to pay more.
A common comment is that a mother should be able to make a proper living while the kids are in school for six hours a day. Children are not in school until they are 6 years old. After a woman has dropped out of her career for one year or more, it is difficult to get a job at a high income, and certainly not comparable to a man who maintains his career uninterupted, especially if she is solely responsible if her kid gets sick and she has to leave on a moments notice. If I had not stayed home to care for children (his and then mine), my income would be four times greater than it is now. Child support is the equalizer to give children a better life. Children start school at the age of 5, and can start pre-school at age 4. I find it hard to believe that a mother cannot find a full time 9-5 job while the kids are at school. Also, before they start school, you could be working. There are many programs out there to help out with and sometimes completely pay for childcare. People who chose not to work and utilize these programs are lazy, and would prefer to live off the other parent.
This is drifting into the child support debate.
I want child support paying dads to understand that child support payments is money well spent! I challenge dads who try to nickle and dime away the child support to consider that the child support only covers a share of the "expense" of the child (like the roof, clothing and food) and doesn't "pay" anyone to parent. We do that out of love. Well spent, yea... The child support I paid was well spent. It paid for trips for mom only. It pays for her to go to the club. While I am working 70+ hours a week to afford a home, food, clothing, ect, ect... Ya know, the same thing you have to provide for the children... She is working 20 hours a week, and collecting on me. I go with out to make sure my kids have what they wanted and need both here and at moms house, while she splurges(sp?) on herself.
Fortunately, things have changed. My children are living with me now, and I'll add they are doing much better in and out of school, and turning out to be well adjusted young men as opposed to the bad children they were becoming while living with her.
I guess I can now take a part time job, even though my kids are in school all day, and force her to work her ass off all week and live a life of poverty while paying me... Nah, I won't do that, I'd prefer that my children not have to see their mother struggling like that, and resent me like they do her. I probably won't even ask for support. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 8:21:26 AM |
In my situation, I paid 40% of my wages for support, after taxes. So my social status declined.
You pay that because you avoided paying child support, you are in arrears and now your wages are being garnished. Otherwise you would not have to pay 40%. You won't get sympathy from any single mother that you forced your children to live without for so long.
While I am working 70+ hours a week to afford a home, food, clothing, ect, ect... Ya know, the same thing you have to provide for the children... She is working 20 hours a week, The way I see it, leaves you very little time to quality parent.
I can only speculate, but keeping your children in poverty was incredibly stressful on mom and the kids so they act out and she needed a vacation and the clubing. So you pick up the kids and spoil them and come back to us looking for some kind of pat on the back. Your actions are a sign that you exert financial control to make your wife suffer and you abusing those kids with your mind games.
You are the single dad that makes us single moms mad. While she had custody, did you spend every visit purposely teaching your kids to resent mom. You might feel pretty good for being "Hero DAD" but in time they will realize that it was you that put them into poverty in the first place and they will hate you for it. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 8:38:19 AM | ^^^ "You might feel pretty good for being "Hero DAD" but in time they will realize that it was you that put them into poverty in the first place and they will hate you for it."
So Buttercup, you had no choice in the decision? If you could have, you would have stayed married to him so as not to risk your child(ren) being put into poverty?
Sounds like you've been done wrong. Sounds like you have developed a hatred for single Dads (because you only talk about Dads...not "Parents" in general). This may be the defensive coping mechanism your (women's) group has instilled in your brain and reinforces every week....hopefully you can snap out of it some day. What a pitiful way to view and go through life...woe is me.
~ds~ | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 9:54:14 AM | Butter-cup, While I see a great deal of hatred and resentment seeping through your posts towards men I do hear a lot of what you are saying. I've seen the financial parent in many cases. They strut around applauding themselves for how much they spend on their children and this must make them excellent parents when kids don't care about getting the newest game or the flashiest bike or going to the coolest waterparks or restaurants every weekend. But the kids see RIGHT through this. I have friends that act this way and it's going to be a startling reality when their kids grow up and they don't respect them. I can see it now already and the kids are anywhere from 8 to 15. Why they don't see it is beyond me. Oh wait, it's because they are narcissistic and feel money CAN buy happiness, as it does for them. Or so they delude themselves and those around them into thinking.
The way I see it if I pay my ex a grand every month for support and she chooses to use it on herself she's likely going to use that grand of her own money that she'd normally use on herself for the kids and bills and such. If she's getting the money and still making the kids eat KD and hotdogs and Mr. Noodle for dinner every night while she goes to the spa twice a week and stays in a hotel every other weekend when I have the kids and parties it up then I'm likely going to go to court and fight the order so that the money goes into trust for them for when they turn 18 OR I'm going to fight for sole custody. But fortunately my ex makes more than I do and we share custody so I don't pay support. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 9:59:51 AM | Jim,
My group will be extremely pleased that fathers like you exist. You are right, when participating fully, being a single dad should be as hard as being a single mother. Because you are taking equal responsibility, it is equally challenging.
When all the parenting is done by one, and financial burden is placed on the other, both parents suffer in the extreme of each role taken. However, the cp is a parent who is the vulnerable and powerless one in that dynamic. The one with financial control has the power to make both parents miserable and that is part of the beef I have with single dads.
And to moms who withhold access, I personally get the best response from my kids dad when I offer lots of opportunities for him to parent even if he is unable too.
Thanks for giving us hope that not all single dads suffer from the deadbeat gene. I bestow the title "single dad" to you! Perhaps my beef was with nearly absent manipulative dads calling themselves single dads and then complaining about it. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 10:35:24 AM |
Hello I am the father of the most wonderful 10 month old boy and I have him exactly 50% of the time. The 50% that he isn't with me i worry about him. I think this more than qualifies me as a single parent and I think that there are alot of fathers out there that don't get to see their kids because a vindictive woman wants to hold a kid over some man's head because of a past deed. This is not the kids' or the father's issue.
I'm in the same situation. I have my daughter 50% of the time, and I can't tell you the number of times I have been asked by women why I don't let my daughter be with my ex full time since "a mother deserves to have her kids". WTF, why doesn't a father have a right to have his kids?
Most women, probably like all of those in the OP's "single mother's group", need to get over this mistaken belief that they are somehow better parents and entitled to custody of children simply because they have a vagina.
Men won't join her group simply because they would be faced with a bunch of cackling hens who would do nothing but make sexist comments about how single fathers aren't as good at being a parent to a child as a single mother, or that single fathers don't have problems the same way that single mothers do. I mean, when was the last time a single mother was detained for "suspected abuse" for hugging her child in public - probably never. But things like that happen to single fathers because society has been brainwashed to believe that men don't care for children and that if we show affection, it is because we are predators. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 10:43:17 AM | Msg #88: "However, the cp is a parent who is the vulnerable and powerless one in that dynamic. The one with financial control has the power to make both parents miserable and that is part of the beef I have with single dads."
Okay, you start out in the third person....'the CP", "a parent", "the powerless one", "the one with financial control"......and when you come to your beef, you jump from the 3rd person to "single dads". Are you for real??? In spite of all the men and single Dads who have responded here, I've yet to hear you bash or have a beef with their ex's....the "part time" and "deadbeat" moms....hmmmm
If you would rather be the one wielding the financial power, relinquish custody to your ex, get a full time job and start paying him support. Might do you some good to walk a mile in his shoes.
OP: "Thanks for giving us hope that not all single dads suffer from the deadbeat gene. I bestow the title "single dad" to you! Perhaps my beef was with nearly absent manipulative dads calling themselves single dads and then complaining about it."
All I can say is, WOW....who elected you to "bestow" anything to anyone? WOW!
~ds~ | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 10:44:30 AM | op I dislike the term single parent too, we are all parents, how good we are or how much time we spend doing it, doesnt make one better than the other , it makes us parents..not marytrs
My best friend sees his 9 year old son 3 times a week and is an excellent " single & parent " and a full time "father " to his son..emotionallly financially and domestically of you like...
Like the other dads on here when hes not with him he worries and thinks about him constantly and most guys ive spoken to on here are exactly the same.
I dont think about what I do as a parent/mother it comes naturally, ok we all know that there are some absent parents whether they be men or women, but dont ever knock the ones that are around part time , full time,
As long as your childen are happy and stable thats all that should matter
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 10:54:51 AM |
Scenario: Man keeps his 9 to 5 job. Woman takes a lower paid job with fewer hours on the evening and weekends to make the 50% custody arrangement work. So he makes $50 000 and she makes $25 000. The man and woman have 50% custody and no money is exchanged. So Dad takes kids to theme parks and movies and eat take-out but with mom they eat weiners and beans and no school field trips. This so called "equal" arrangement can't work and is selfish on the high income earners part.
I say the Joyce arrangement fairly and evenly distributes the "quality time" by giving one parent every second weekend and one evening a week with support payment made to the primary custodial parent. S/he who does "the dirty work" of child rearing is the single parent who hopefully has the support of a part-time parent or daycare or family to avoid burn out.
However this schedule of some dads, every second weekend, may make a relationship work for the kids but is not the same as the harder work of day-to-day parenting... ( I can only assume, as my baby's dad is absent.. comments anyone?) Imagine getting two weeks off every time you worked two days at a income producing job... that would be part-time! How could that parent feel the pinch of single parenting with a bi-monthly visit?
Some questions...
So basically a 1/3 - 2/3 split is fair to you? Why because you get a check for up to 1/2 of your kid's father to make up the time difference?
A man should continue to support his child's mother chooses to take a low earning job in order to make the schedule work? Why is the man able to work 40+ hours a week and make it work but a woman isn't? I thought women were capable of doing everything a man can do - isn't that what we have been hearing for the last 40+ years. Why does a woman need to work less hours to make the 50/50 schedule work but the man doesn't?
What is your definition of "quality time" it is obviously just having fun with the kids. Quality time with a child is not just having fun, it is having the time (and access) to teach them how to grow up to be quality, upstanding individuals. That is quality time is, it is not "dirty work".
The fact that you view actual parenting as "dirty work" and what the noncustodial parents do as "quality time" speaks volumes about how you (don't) value men as parents (and are probably raising your kids to have the same views). | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 11:06:50 AM |
^^^It's pretty basic there David. The initial bond a baby forms is with mom after birth generally. Even with deadbeat moms they form somewhat of a bond. Hell, the mother of my kids was hardly active in raising them but because she pushed them out of her vagina and coddled them here and there, and even though I was the one feeding and changing and bathing and staying up all f'n hours of the night with them while I had to work and she stayed home and had coffee and went to school for a couple of those years they still have more of a bond with her. Children just automatically psychologically attach to their mother's from birth. It's basic Freudian psychology. There is no definitive study on the matter. How many kids cry for daddy moreso than mommy when they hurt themselves or are sick? Maybe when the kids get older and can think for themselves at say 8 and up but before that I'd say mom rules the roost, regardless of whether she's absent or not. I never said they wouldn't hurt if the dad left. I just think it'd be easier to take and they'd get over it sooner.
What utter BS.
It has been shown that when men are allowed to, and make the effort, the bonds they form with children are every bit as strong as the mother-child bond. Quit buying the gynocentric view of parenting. Dad's are just as valuable, and can bond just as well with kids as the mother can. No attachment is automatic, attachments are made by working at them but most father's are never given a chance to create that attachment because of people who mistakenly believe like you do - that women have some magical bond with their children. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 11:16:35 AM | Why does a woman need to work less hours to make the 50/50 schedule work but the man doesn't?
I love that point, btw 8) ,
I fully agree, women have fought for equal rights 50/50 for years, you cant then change the play when it suits
as for child support, be glad you dont live in the uk , any parent is lucky to see it , trust me there are people who are in more poverty than you, and to be honest you just need to get on with it and stop because if you dont the statement below is what you will miss
Quality time with a child is not just having fun, it is having the time (and access) to teach them how to grow up to be quality, upstanding individuals. That is quality time is, it is not "dirty work".
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 11:22:01 AM |
However, upon a divorce, woman's social status always declines and many end up in poverty. The man will not suffer from the same decline in income, and may fair better with fewer people to support on his income, even with the transfer.
How many wrong assertions can you make. It has been shown time and time again that women and men both are worse off financially after a divorce. Men fair only marginally better than women - around a 15% decline in financial status compared to 17% by women.
I might not understand your point in this paragraph, as I have a hard time establishing that a mother could be painted with the same brush to be under-employed on purpose like a man may for the purposes of evading/gaining child support. It doesn't matter how much I work, my child is still legally entitled to child support based on his father's income.
The child's support is supposed to be based on both parents combined income (at least here in the U.S. - Canada may be different). So if either parent purposefully seeks to be under employed, then their support obligation should based on what they can be making, not what they are making. Why does a mother have to take a full year off from work after a child is born. Medically she is capable of returning to work within 6 weeks (usually). Why can't she return to her normal 9-5 job and have the kid stay with a sitter or at a day care. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 11:32:37 AM |
You pay that because you avoided paying child support, you are in arrears and now your wages are being garnished. Otherwise you would not have to pay 40%. You won't get sympathy from any single mother that you forced your children to live without for so long.
Once again you are wrong. In the U.S. (most states) up to 2/3 of a man's salary can be taken for child support - without him being in arrears and being garnished.
Personally, I pay almost %30 of my take home pay in support for a child I have 50% of the time, and I have never missed a payment. I have my support paid directly into my daughter's bank account that my ex-wife has access to, so that the only way I ever will miss a payment is if I lose my job.
I can only speculate, but keeping your children in poverty was incredibly stressful on mom and the kids so they act out and she needed a vacation and the clubing. So you pick up the kids and spoil them and come back to us looking for some kind of pat on the back. Your actions are a sign that you exert financial control to make your wife suffer and you abusing those kids with your mind games.
You are the single dad that makes us single moms mad. While she had custody, did you spend every visit purposely teaching your kids to resent mom. You might feel pretty good for being "Hero DAD" but in time they will realize that it was you that put them into poverty in the first place and they will hate you for it.
Wow, way to make assumptions.
Why is it "he's a controlling ex who keeps his ex in poverty" and not "his ex is a worthless heifer who only wanted to go out clubbing and get her party on". I know, because that wouldn't fit your world view of women being good, men being evil.
And you wonder why men wouldn't want to join your "single mother's group". | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 11:48:58 AM | "I was at my single mom's group today and we all had a beef about single dad's who lament on the challenges of single parenting"
Here ya go, eastindyguy....OP's opening statement to this thread....
I'm done with this one....
<<<< closest emoticon to banging my head against a brick buttercup....
~ds~ | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 12:06:51 PM | EastIndyGuy,
Shown by whom? The mother-child bond is stronger than any father-child bond during the early years of a child's life when the parenting roles are even or in favour of the mother. Even in cases where the father is WAY more involved than the mother or the mother is absent or even abusive often enough the children still crave the attention of their mother. It's natural. They spent the first 9 months of their lives developing inside their mother's womb without ANY contact with the father. They were created from our seed and their egg equally obviously initially but where did all the flesh and blood and bones come from?! The mother. All our sperm does is provide some sort of a blueprint for the woman's body to produce this child. I must be crazy to postulate, or even ASSUME that a child would have an innate bond with it's mother. I'm not saying children don't bond with their father. My kid's mother wasn't very present in their lives growing up. She lived with us but I did most of the parenting duties and I was the one who was up every night with them. Still to this day I find she showers them with gifts and fun foods, be it pizza or macaroni at home or eating out at mcdonalds, whereas I spend more quality time with them in terms of activities and going to the park or beach or the YMCA to climb or swim. And as much as she's switched plans and not informed them and abandoned them over the years they STILL cling to her over me. It has NOTHING to do with me lacking as a father. It was EVERYTHING to do with the fact that she's mom and I will never change that. If she were to smack my 9 year old son in the mouth one day my son would be DEVASTATED but he'd cling to her for reassurance that she still loved him. If I did it he'd be upset but he'd be hurt that I would do that to him. It's perfectly natural. I accept it. I hate that I feel like we men are at a disadvantage when it comes to our children in respect to their mothers but what can you do? Find someone to flip the switch and let us carry children in our beerguts and maybe we can fix that. Until then I'm going with half a century of psychological research. | |
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| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 1:55:28 PM |
The child's support is supposed to be based on both parents combined income (at least here in the U.S. - Canada may be different). So if either parent purposefully seeks to be under employed, then their support obligation should based on what they can be making, not what they are making. Why does a mother have to take a full year off from work after a child is born. Medically she is capable of returning to work within 6 weeks (usually). Why can't she return to her normal 9-5 job and have the kid stay with a sitter or at a day care.
I guess it is different in Canada. It doesn't matter how little or how much I make, he pays dependant on his income.
And the comment regarding the 6 week maternity leave. In Canada the law entitles a year of paid paternity leave, 35 weeks by the mother and the remainder by either parent.
Why can't she return to her normal 9-5 job and have the kid stay with a sitter or at a day care. because I love my baby and he loves me. Having an attachment figure is critical to the healthy development of children and anything else is the subject matter of sociopathology. That is why he is raised by his mother and not the four walls of a daycare. Any other questions?
Gosh did I ever set you guys on fire... bring it on! | |
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ojorle
| | Joined: 2/5/2008 Msg: 100 | |
| My beef about PART TIME dads who identify as SINGLE dads Posted: 4/3/2008 2:07:08 PM | I've been on both side of this... I find it's actually a lot easier to be a FULL TIME parent then the every other night / weekend or what ever schedule was worked out. the first that needs to be reailized is it IS NOT ABOUT YOU.. It's about the kids. Deal with it, handle it but get along with it. Remember they will choose your retirement home. | |
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