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| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 4/15/2008 10:52:33 AM | Personally, I think it's hilarious that opening a thread on politeness should receive such a hostile response. But then, I've long been a fan of irony.
Two points from the OP I'd like to address: first, spelling and grammar are important. Language is the basic tool of communication, and it's reasonable to criticize anybody who undertakes any task without bothering to learn how to use the tools required. There is, of course, a big difference between correction and nit-picking, and as the OP said, politeness is good. On the second point, yes, it's probably naive. Or perhaps just overly optimistic. But it seems to be well-meant, so points to you for that. And, moving on...
i wonder if these forums just make it worse for some people to find a good catch
I think it they make it easier. Some people do well in selling themselves in their profiles, but in their forum posts their real personalities can peek through. I find the forums a useful filter in that regard - not infallible, but useful.
add to the OP's list to not hijack threads or make stupid, inane posts on a serious thread
There are two separate issues here. On hijacking, I agree; I think it should be grounds for immediate suspension. If ya don't like the topic, start your own thread. Inane posts, on the other hand, can provide useful comic relief, especially when a debate is getting too intense. Moderation is good, though; if the inanities are fairly brief and fairly infrequent, I can't see a problem.
You DO have a right to attack a person's opinion because of free speech obviously.
True, within limits - we do have a rule about flaming in the forums, right? It seems hard to define, but the rule of thumb I use is this: Anything you say about a post, short of misrepresentation or trashy insult, is allowable. Offensive, in some cases, but permissible. Anything personal you say about a poster is over the line.
I've always been more trusting of an offensive opinion than a motherly pat of agreement, because the person who doesn't hold back usually has less to hide.
I have nothing to add to this. I just thought it was true, and very cool, and worth repeating. | |
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| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 4/15/2008 9:12:21 PM | | I would actually say that using proper spelling and grammar would be 'politeness' in responding to threads, especially if your spelling and grammar are really bad. There are a few posters I don't even read anymore because the stuff they post never makes any sense. At least make an effort to proof read or if you know your spelling and grammar sucks, type things in a word processor and spell check them. The worst are certain posters who use a whole bunch of excessive punctuation or a million little smile thingies. Totally uneccesary. And it doesn't have to be perfect, but at least put in some effort! | |
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| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:28:20 PM | Apologies to those who wanted me to reply quickly, but I don't spend much time online these days (stupid dialup connection...mutter...).
Regarding spelling correction, perhaps I did overstate my case slightly. What I was trying to address was the situation where someone makes a few errors and someone flames them as if their grammtical inability is a personal insult. If you respond to their mistakes with a polite correction, then good on you. There'a world of difference between politely correcting them, and something like "OMG READ A BOOK YOU @##%#!". Now, I agree with wpg chick 84 that poor spelling regarding from carelessness is in itself rude when it makes the message harder to read, but then - as you say - just don't read it.
I just think that as a general rule, if someone is asking for relationship advice, then my response should deal with, y'know, relationships. Problems that they haven't asked for help with are not my business. | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 29 | |
| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 5/16/2008 9:34:22 PM | I don't pick on spelling. I think I've done it twice to people who had just been on their high horse about other people's spelling and made a mistake themselves....and once when a religious person spelled satan as satin... and it was too good an opportunity to resist commenting that, indeed, 70's fashion was the work of the devil but that first time I clapped eyes on John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever I did think I'd seen god.
...Other than that, I have posted several comments in several threads over the time I've been here along the lines of saying that I don't think spelling is the be all and end all...and I mean it. And yet, I myself have been accused of being some kind of spelling nazi.  I think people just get oversensitive and put more effort into defending their bad spelling by deflecting negatively on others, than they do into learning to spell.
I must say it was interesting to read so many here blatantly say that the poor spellers should take responsibility for sorting themselves out because in the Aussie forum the louder criticism generally goes more the other way. Despite people being far less blunt about bad spelling than what I am reading here, recent strong opinion there was that anyone who so much as notices incorrect spelling is intolerantly intolerant, or just trying to be superior. In fact, it's those who write well-considered, intelligent, rational, correctly spelled posts who are ultimately criticised. (I saw one guy get told to 'go find an academic forum', and another accused of being argumentative when all he was trying to do was clarify misunderstanding of something he'd said prior. Frustrating to watch!)
I've also seen intelligence spoken of in snide tones. The tired old phrase "Lighten up, this is not the place for serious discussion, this is a dating site" gets trotted out...because obviously having discussions and dating are mutually exclusive.  If someone makes a habit of stating opinions, expressing points of view and debating...they're said to be a trouble maker. If anyone else happens to agree... they are accused of being a clique. Even if the sometimes-serious-posters also post a mix of lighthearted posts, once they have had a serious discussion... they are permanently put on record as lacking any sense of fun/humour. And if anyone tries to earnestly clarify or expand on a point of view after someone has responded...they are called a bully. It seems to me that some people use these sorts of accusations to save them having to make the effort to actually debate the point at hand. Although, given that I myself am a trouble-making, humourless bully with a clique, sometimes they are on the money. ( So hoping that is recognised as a joke.)
I've always been more trusting of an offensive opinion than a motherly pat of agreement, because the person who doesn't hold back usually has less to hide.
My personal line on this is that opinions about topics, and opinions about what other people have said, definitely shouldn't be held back. But opinions about posters themselves that are really no more than pettiness/abuse/accusations should be. | |
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| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 5/16/2008 10:33:51 PM |
But it's not their fault if they can't spell, and this isn't English class. It may not be their fault. But maybe they shouldn't be using a forum such as this, if they have the grammar skills of a third grader? | |
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_JAFO_
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Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 31 | |
| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 5/17/2008 8:31:49 AM | It's ok to disagree with someone's opinion. Unfortunately there are strong personalities that transcend into an attack through the written word. Or they could just be people that have to be right at all costs. Or it could just be angry people. Or it could fall somewhere in between.
As for the poor spelling and grammar, we live in a forgiving society until it comes to that. Until you've walked in the shoes of a person who has grown up with dyslexia, you'll never understand the social burden they bear because of their disability. I have a couple of close friends who have dyslexia. They are not stupid people by any stretch of the imagination. But they just can't spell because of the way their brain works looking at letters.
As an example, last night I wrote a short note for a friend with dyslexia. I do it often. I do it because as I point out to him... he can spend the next hour looking up how to spell that sentence (and still not be sure) or I can write the note for him and whip it out in a minute.
I've seen dyslexia in action -- so I'm more forgiving -- and it's unfortunate that those with dyslexia have to--in effect--hide their disability by posting rarely/briefly or not at all.
There is alot of anger out here. There is alot of anger towards the other gender. But... on any given day, we don't know what happened to the individuals that provoked them to take a poke at someone out here. It could be just about anything. Is it cause or effect that they act the way they do out here? Or it could be their nature.
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| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 5/17/2008 9:43:53 AM | I agree with you idealist, there's always quite a bit of nastyness on almost all forums on the net. What I hate is when you stick up for yourself against this and then loads of forum members gang up on you.
OP...
back in message 3...
I asked you a question, pertaining to your original post on this thread.
It was a serious question, but you ignored it.
In your original post, you listed a few rules/guidelines you thought should be a part of "Basic Politeness in Responding to Threads", and your reasoning for those rules.
One of those reasons you gave, to support your rule of not bothering people about their spelling and/or grammar, was...
"it's not their fault if they can't spell".
I asked, "then whose fault is it?"
I was serious. Whose fault do you think it is?
It's ONLY that person's fault.
People can work on bettering themselves and, (unless mentally challenged), can learn to spell.
They can go through life never trying to learn... and be supported in that by people who never correct them ... who just shrug and say, "it's not their fault".
But if they want to use the written word as a way of communicating and sharing ideas, it is wiser if they try to learn... (or at least use spell-check!). In my opinion.
So yep, I'll raise my hand as someone who occasionally jumps on people here in the forums if they aren't bothering to learn spelling!
Hey, maybe they'll get the idea... if enough people point it out to them.... and maybe they'll try to learn spelling before they go to fill out a form for getting a new job or some other equally important writing.
~~~
The rest of your opening post... pretty much 'spot on'.
Yep, people can and do use forums as a bit of therapy sometimes... letting out their frustrations.
They shouldn't have to learn though, just so they don't get atacked. They shouldn't get attacked anyway, forums are supposed to be about having fun, they're not English tests, I can't understand why people actually get irritated by bad spelling.
And, it not like the people who can't spell knew at the time when they weren't being educated properly (which could have been even before the Internet) that once they end up going onto a forum they're going to get attacked over something so petty, so they'd better learn.
So in that way, it still isn't really their fault.
Bottom line is IMO, is that it's the people who attack for bad spelling, or grammar or whatever who are in the wrong, not the person who can't spell. It seems the former people take life way too seriously.
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| Basic politeness in responding to threads
Posted: 5/17/2008 6:07:43 PM |
At least some of the aggressive posters are being genuine, even if it isn't a prettier pg-13 version that you would prefer. Since when was the truth pretty? I've always been more trusting of an offensive opinion than a motherly pat of agreement, because the person who doesn't hold back usually has less to hide.
I loved this.
Sometimes though, I find the bitterness laced throughout the forum to be really tiresome. Even if it came from me. | |
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