| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/15/2008 8:55:38 AM | | personally i feel it's just the start of a new solar cycle, or more, the truth is i don't know, but i'm open minded enough, to believe something will happen. | |
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cieo
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Joined: 9/11/2006
Msg: 53 | |
| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/17/2008 4:35:31 PM | So then, do all objects orbiting our gallaxy, move at the same speed?
We see Jupiter as a star, because it's only 2 planets away, but also because of it's light reflectibility. So, something MUCH farther away & with a low reflectibility would be much harder to spot, wouldn't it? Especially if the average "sceptical scientist" would choose not to believe in it's potential existance, until it bit him in the a s s...
It seems that every year now, someone is "discovering" larger planets than Pluto ie:Eris, beyond Pluto's orbit. Sedna has a 10,500 year eliptical orbit at a 30 degree angle to the orbital plane of our solar system, but still too small to be Nibiru, though it's certainly in ALMOST the right place.
Given that there are 100's of sites on the net warning of the potential devastating effects from Nibiru... what would these un-related people's motivations be, in posting this sort of info? These aren't just 1 or 2 pages here & there, but 100's of fairly professional videos on y o u t u b e . c o m with photos of 30 foot tall (alien) skeletons, interviews, etc about Nibiru. Seriously... give me your "scientific" point of view on that... A few crank sites I might be sceptical of, but 100's? What would be their motivation, putting themselves out there as proverbial Piniatas for all the "sceptical scientists" to bash at them? | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 1:53:25 AM |
Given that there are 100's of sites on the net warning of the potential devastating effects from Nibiru... what would these un-related people's motivations be, in posting this sort of info?
The internet echo chamber at its finest. Nothing more to it. Popularity doesn't indicate truth. | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 3:09:18 AM | | the people who believe in planet x probly also take there vacation messing with the security at gloom lake, hey if you guys see danny carey(the band TOOL) tell him i say hi, its one of his past times | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 4:12:18 AM | "Did I say it was as big a Jupiter?"
No, but the problems with postulating a large planet which has an orbit that passes past Earth every 3,600 years remain, whether or not the planet is the size of Jupiter. Even if it was the size and mass of the Earth, a close encounter with the Earth and another Earth-sized planet would disrupt the orbit of the Earth very substantially and possibly lead to the extinction of most life on the planet. Even if we shrink the size of the object down to that of Pluto, such an object passing by would have been very bright and would have attracted interest and observation. That is assuming it did have a close encounter with the Earth some 3,600 years ago, and assuming such an object exists.
"No... In the legends, supposedly one of Nibiru's moons smashed into a planet (Tiamat, supposedly as large as Neptune, with 8 or more moons) that used orbit beween Mars & Jupiter, hence the asteroid belt that exists there now. Has any one ever calculated the total mass of these asteroids?"
Yes, and the total mass is very small, only a fraction of the mass of the Moon, which itself is only about 1/81 that of the Earth. If an object the size of Neptune was disrupted along with its moons, there should be a much bigger asteroid belt. The disruption of such an object would also lead to many large objects of 100km size or more regularly impacting the Earth. That would show up on the geological record.
"Nibiru is supposed to have an eliptical orbit, at about a 30% angle to the plane of solar system, rotating clockwise (all the planets in our solar system rotate counter clockwise)."
Even if we assume Nibiru comes from outside the ecliptic plane, the problems pointed out earlier remain. Searches are also regularly done for comets and other objects coming from outside the ecliptic, as some comets have orbits which do not follow the ecliptic plane. If a very large planet with a 3,600 year orbital period existed, and regularly passed through our system, it should be readily visible or should have been found by now. The fact Nibiru has not been discovered does not prove it does not exist, but the principle of Occam's razor means you look for the most rational and simple explanation for the phenomena, and here it is the predictions of what Nibiru is like and how it behaves are not verified by observational evidence. It is perfectly reasonable then for an astronomer to be skeptical about the existence of such a planet, or to infer it doesn't exist at all.
"Recently I found out that there's an even much larger asteroid belt beyond the orbit of Pluto. So this could only be from the destruction of an even more massive planet... Again, has any one ever calculated the total mass of these asteroids?"
You are possibly thinking of a Kuiper Belt Object, such as Sedna. The total mass of all known Kuiper Belt objects is not known, but it is unlikely they would have enough mass to make a decent Earth-sized planet. It should be kept in mind the mass of Pluto, Sedna and other KBO's is rather small, less than the Moon usually. And even the Moon is no 'heavyweight' in terms of mass. The best explanation for their existence is that they are debris left over from the formation of the solar system.
"Has anyone ever speculated that our moon is MUCH larger (about as wide as North America) & much more scared up, than most moons (only a few 100 k) on similar sized planets? This may be one of Tiamat's moons..."
Some moons are small, and others are quite large. It seems the gas giants in our solar system have the giant moons, and our moon is an exception, possibly because of a giant impact that occured between the Earth and a large planetisimal early in the history of the solar system. The greater numbers of smaller objects is fairly easily explained as due to some fairly straightforward results of object formation from gas and dust clouds, and also satististically speaking, smaller objects will be more common in the solar system than larger objects. This is not unknown in astronomy, as in the universe, smaller objects seem to exist in larger numbers than bigger objects. This applies to stars and galaxies and probably also to planets (though extrasolar planets which are known are very large, there are probably larger numbers of smaller planets which have not been found yet). Not every problem has been sorted out, but the numbers of small moons around large planets does not support any theory resembling that of a giant planet passing by Earth every 3,600 years.
"Being a musician/songwriter, I'm rather good at abstract creative thought... which is rather esential, to have ideas. All great leaps of thought, come through inspiration. But then you'd also need a bit of heart & soul to have that to... all you need to do math, is to have a calculator... Think about that, when you "scientists" go on your next date..."
I am sure many scientists would say doing science is a creative activity that requires 'creative abstract thought' and 'great leaps of thought that come through inspiration.' A lot of science would also be drudgery as well, just like anything else in life. Science and art have a lot in common, but that is not really the point in question here. | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 5:19:28 AM | Im quite sure in the future sometime we will be rewriting our science about space and time. There are alot of things that we will never understand nor we will see because were so focused on other peoples work from the past. Has there been any new ideas and new found science ?
Til that day we are able to think past that border we have put around our mind, not sure how long it will take for that to happend but when it does im quite sure things will move into place and make more sense that once never did.
Then again maybe these things have already been figured out its has just not been made public as of yet.
anywho
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 7:11:57 AM |
Im quite sure in the future sometime we will be rewriting our science about space and time. There are alot of things that we will never understand nor we will see because were so focused on other peoples work from the past. Has there been any new ideas and new found science ?
Uhhh the point of science is incorperating new observations with old observations. You don't make progress by ignoring the works of the past, because all great theorists built their work on the framework of those that worked before. | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 7:59:14 AM | Yes I agree, but how can you move forward with new observations when they mind has been closed off from thinking further. Alot of foucs on past observations keep your mind from thinking of things you might have thought possible. Most of then new science is just an add on from old ideas or improvements correct ?? (which is the same thing i think lol)?
When new ideas are brought into light, it tends to be looked at from a negative point of view. Like this electricity medicene....alot of devices that can either cure or enhance your function. One device gets you off drugs and alcohol. ANother device electrifies your blood and rids your body of virus andpathogens. its not accepted because its going to take billions of dollars from the medical companies and drug companies. Like they say, a cured patient is a lost customer....lol
anyways the whole drive for most of this crap is money, money which has no VALUE what so ever besides the value we give it. Seeing the money that is being printed is printed by a company that is no more Federal then Federal express and charges the Govt interest as to way U.S is in debt as well as Canada. | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 8:54:59 AM | Hmm, I am certainly not the astronomer, but this 'Nibiru', U are all chatting about . .
the 1 that has this 'opposite' like orbit, reminds me/sounds like, the planet Chiron, as charted in my ol' school ephemeris. I had heard it wouldn't be recognized by that name, perhaps, like Pan, or something . . . why not 'Nibiru' ! ?
In my language, much about Chiron is unknown, and/or, it has also been labeled, the teacher. It's orbit does appear backward. Have I been duped by Neil F. Michelson; ISBN: 0-935127-19-4 ? ! | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/18/2008 1:36:22 PM |
Yes I agree, but how can you move forward with new observations when they mind has been closed off from thinking further.
You over come bad theories by making observations that contradict the old theories. Not by simply discarding knowledge you had before.
When new ideas are brought into light, it tends to be looked at from a negative point of view. Like this electricity medicene....alot of devices that can either cure or enhance your function. One device gets you off drugs and alcohol. ANother device electrifies your blood and rids your body of virus andpathogens. its not accepted because its going to take billions of dollars from the medical companies and drug companies. Like they say, a cured patient is a lost customer....lol
these are looked on in a negative light because they don't work. | |
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| PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:34:29 PM | | Dear Tigerbee. Thank you for the nice reprimand. We will be good from now on. Usually you have to read someones whole comment like yours just to get to the key words. In your case it was "Negating the existence of something, does not cease it to exist... Why do you put 3 periods after some of these sentences. Does this mean there is more but you didn't write it or do you have a twitchy finger? Good comments and I have nothing to add. Just wondered why the 3 ...'s. Speak now whilst you have an audience. Thanks, Dan | |
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| PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:59:06 PM | | Hmmm they dont work because you say so or because your taking the word from ppl who are greedy for a buck and will down play anything that might take way that nice Billion dollar income, do keep in mind these are only number that we as ppl give the value to or the money system would be worthless. Really the system is flawed in many aspects. Off topic but even still, this is just going to show you that alot of ppl sit around waiting for the words of others who are given the status of sayings YES THIS IS TRUE AND YES IT TILL WORK. If this planet is coming or this will cure cancer or this money system is BS either way instead of sitting on your a$$ all day on the internet, go do your own research and invest your OWN money into it. Like Bob Beck did for his research(50,000) for the Silver Pulser which i have bought and should be here by this coming Wed. Yes i will be using it on a few friends who have asked me to use it on the friends they have that need it. | |
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| PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Posted: 4/19/2008 3:51:39 PM |
Hmmm they dont work because you say so or because your taking the word from ppl who are greedy for a buck and will down play anything that might take way that nice Billion dollar income,
No, they don't work.
Hmmm they dont work because you say so or because your taking the word from ppl who are greedy for a buck and will down play anything that might take way that nice Billion dollar income,
So you're a sucker, thanks for clearing that up. | |
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| PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Posted: 4/19/2008 6:50:54 PM | | Ohhh another device that helps with addiction is made by the same dude who makes the silver pulser. Its is said that the device can take someone off addiction within a week, But then again addiction clinics dont make money like medical industry if ppl are healthy. So i dunno again money over the ppl | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/19/2008 9:50:21 PM | Bottom line Tiger is that you asked for people with knowledge in astronomy for information regarding a "rogue" planet. To the best of my and most astronomers' knowledge, the answer is simply no. There is no Nibiru. That is a position made from observation and evidence and not from 'creative thinking'. Such an object would very likely have been discovered. Thousands of telescopes, both amateur and professional, have been scannning the skies for just such a discovery. Far from being suppressed, it would be trumpeted as a significant discovery.
Our naked eye view of planets is simply star-like because of their reflectivity and the fact they subtend small relative to the rest of the sky. Higher magnification reveals a lot or a little detail, depending on the planet and its distance from Earth.
Now if, as you say, the inclination of the orbit of said "rogue" planet were to be 30 "percent" or, more likely degrees from the plane of the ecliptic, that's still visible to the northern hemisphere. Even if it was 90 degrees to the ecliptic, there's still plenty of telescopes at work in Australia, South Africa and South America to find it.
Believe in Nibiru if you want. But I'm going to go with far more reliable sources of information than YouTube videos and conspiracy theory websites.  | |
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| PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:08:32 PM |
Ohhh another device that helps with addiction is made by the same dude who makes the silver pulser. Its is said that the device can take someone off addiction within a week, But then again addiction clinics dont make money like medical industry if ppl are healthy. So i dunno again money over the ppl
Ooooh magic.  You do know that addiction and chemical dependence arn't the same thing right? Too bad magic pulser didn't know that. | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/20/2008 10:51:34 PM | | I already explained what dark matter was, so now I can give you a glimpse of where the Planet Earth is in relation to the whole cosmos. I will use words that all can understand as long as you understand where you heard it first. Earth itself is not part of the cosmos but is outside of it by itself surrounded by spheres of perhaps 6 or 8 cosmos's, rotating in an undetermined direction. These spheres would account for the curvature of space/time and the red and blue shift. You can catch a glimpse of it tonight if you would stare at the moon as you would stare at one of those prints that if you stare at it long enough you will see an elephant or something out of all the dots. You have to be nearsighted therefore if you are not you would have to wear glasses that would make you nearsighted. To what degree of nearsightedness I am not sure yet but I need glasses to see distance. You will see the likeness of what appears to be a human cell after it has divided with the nucleus surrounded by these spheres. Try it with one eye at a time . Then try it with both eyes. You have to stare for a while until your eyes start to relax where a blur takes place. Now if you picture in the middle of these spheres or cell division you will understand my New Theory of Relativity for the New Millennium a tad more. I should be able to explain it to a barmaid as Einstein said. I have to do more investigating on some different links but with an open mind. Just a theory and you can laugh all you want, but we are supposed to come up with a new enlightenment soon and the time may just be now. There is much more but I am still trying to put in words what I don't believe has been written about before. Heliocentric and Geocentric orbit and escape velocity may explain why we have some planets hanging around us but othe than the moon they ay not be part of our singularity. Daniel | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/20/2008 11:57:55 PM |
I already explained what dark matter was, so now I can give you a glimpse of where the Planet Earth is in relation to the whole cosmos. I will use words that all can understand as long as you understand where you heard it first. Earth itself is not part of the cosmos but is outside of it by itself surrounded by spheres of perhaps 6 or 8 cosmos's, rotating in an undetermined direction. These spheres would account for the curvature of space/time and the red and blue shift. You can catch a glimpse of it tonight if you would stare at the moon as you would stare at one of those prints that if you stare at it long enough you will see an elephant or something out of all the dots. You have to be nearsighted therefore if you are not you would have to wear glasses that would make you nearsighted. To what degree of nearsightedness I am not sure yet but I need glasses to see distance. You will see the likeness of what appears to be a human cell after it has divided with the nucleus surrounded by these spheres. Try it with one eye at a time . Then try it with both eyes. You have to stare for a while until your eyes start to relax where a blur takes place. Now if you picture in the middle of these spheres or cell division you will understand my New Theory of Relativity for the New Millennium a tad more. I should be able to explain it to a barmaid as Einstein said. I have to do more investigating on some different links but with an open mind. Just a theory and you can laugh all you want, but we are supposed to come up with a new enlightenment soon and the time may just be now. There is much more but I am still trying to put in words what I don't believe has been written about before. Heliocentric and Geocentric orbit and escape velocity may explain why we have some planets hanging around us but othe than the moon they ay not be part of our singularity. Daniel
this is your brain on drugs. | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/22/2008 5:12:48 AM | | Hmm....i wouldnt know never done drugs thx for lettings us know ur expertise | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:49:26 PM |
Hmm....i wouldnt know never done drugs thx for lettings us know ur expertise
I work with addicted kids. | |
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Angde
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Joined: 9/24/2007
Msg: 73 | |
| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:20:18 PM | I have studied astrology, physics, astronomy, quantum physics... in astrology we've always accounted for the rogue planet it's part of the overall astral prediction and rules Scorpio once it comes into orbit. However I'm not some hippy chick, I studied it years ago as I did applied physics and now quantum. Tigerbee it's not just the Mayan calendar that ends in 2012 also the older Tibetian and older Chinese calandar does as well as many more smaller cultures in South America and Africa. The Mayans believe this will be the 6th age and we will see light and time differently. What that means? Who knows I do believe there is valitity in it. However I believe it's more about us passing through the ecliptic of the milky way (not the center where the hole is) we're on the outer edge... if you see it as the outer rim on plate spinning in space we're on the top and come 2012 well be in the same place outer rim on the bottom. The Mayan calendar in very much based on the placement of Orion which will not be in the same place in the sky after that time.
My personal thoughts is that it's not a doomsday thing however all the planets are warming up not just ours... the friction atm as we are moving through the galaxy is causing it, there's even a speculation we're part of another smaller galaxy being swallowed by the Milky Way. I don't have enough facts to comment on it. One thing I do know is all the old texts going back to the emerald tablet speak of the times we are about to live and that it will be a time of spirituality and awakening :) | |
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| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:52:05 AM | | If you've truely studied physics, explain to me why such a large orbital body hasn't ever been discovered by measuring it's gravitational effects on other planets? | |
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Angde
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Joined: 9/24/2007
Msg: 75 | |
| 2012 & astronomical facts?
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:05:07 AM | | I only said in my astrology studies it was accounted for, and yes I do still study physics however in those fields it's not unaccounted for it's just not proven. Did you know there was a time all the great minds including doctors included Astrology in all their practices? It wasn't till the dark ages of the middle ages it's practices were banned. The Catholic church banned a great deal of things and knowledge in it's pursuit for power and wealth. However if you do not believe in Astrology when we are speaking of 2012 (planet aside) we are passing through the plane of the ecliptic and that to me has more reference to this subject than whether there's another planet in our solar system or not. | |
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