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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 3:58:25 AM |
Have a look at my distinctions between biological, biographical and existential death above...they are self-consciously Heideggerian but they push your discussion on a bit...there are a number of them above and on the previous pages from a while back
Will do, kirk. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire thread yet. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 5:30:49 AM | | It is good to see this topic still going strong and read so many fascinating opinions.One topic death brings to mind to me, is that of attachments in life and how futile they are.We depend on our attachments for happiness and strive to keep and control them, whether people or objects. But this behavior just makes us miserable and anxious and focused on our attachments. Happiness is ever present but because we are focused on worldly things we are blind to it.When we can say to those in our lives, make your own choices, be who you are, do what you want , we are not unhealthily attached to them.When we have true freedom,then we forsake control and become responsible for our own happiness. We then are free to love completely.We are programmed by the world to think like everyone else, go by their rules, do what everyone else does, instead of standing back and thinking for ourselves, not blindly believing and accepting things.So "going to a go go" you become drymouthed around your girl, this sounds like anxiety to me and your fears that what you might say, might not be approved.You are too eager for her approval, something you don't need. She likes you or she does not, you cant control it.Relax and see your girl as a person you are interacting with, whose approval you don't need and who you wish to know as a fellow being. Wanting others approval is tantamount to emotional enslavement.Which brings me back to the desperation of attachment again. Freedom breeds real love not desperation and clinging. Death teaches us that everything is finite and attachment is futile.We do indeed have only the Now. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 5:44:42 AM | 
The odd thing is, diablera, she is definitely more rooted in the Now than most people, but yet I see she gets nervous talking to me as well and can't really speak to me, as I with her. I think she is naturally rooted in the Now and doesn't realise the importance of it. But you're right and the more I become in touch with the Now, which is happening more and more all the time, the easier it will be for us to comminicate. I don't even think it's that I am eager for her approval that gets me to stop thinking, it's that I know she's through any defenses I have in place, and it makes me feel naked, but I think she also knows that I'm more present than most others around me just not as much as she herself. Time will tell how it goes. I don't think her and I will ever happen. She's a really nice person though and that's good enough for me. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 5:53:44 AM | Life unfortunately is our teacher! As we go through life we learn from experiences through our interactions with others, both bad and good. We percieve others through our own experinecs. We should not be judgemental of others as at the end of the day we are all only getting through life the best way we know how! I will join the monastry, see my therapist and take my lithium to help me through, thanks for the advice x! Life will also teach you not to take things so seriously and that langauge is a form of communication, so keep it simple! And yes you are on chapter 100 but that is a kiddies book, I am on chapter 1 of an adults book!Bye | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 8:32:33 AM |
Im curious, how did your father choose his death if it wasn't through suicide? How did he live to cheat death for so long? I can't really respond to the above until I know these things.
First, even though this was a pivotal moment in my life… an A-Ha moment that is seared in my memory, it is worth keeping in mind my perceptions were from who I was in my twenties, which effect my interpretations of “what happened” and “what it meant” to him and to me. Another factor is pulling it from memory and interpreting it with where I am now. Those are some fairly significant distortions, lol. It is very much a conversation I would like to have with him now, with the benefit of life experience.
Most people try to cheat death, even if we rationally know we’re not getting out of life alive. I think the way many of us try to “cheat” it is by ignoring the possibility of death (sure, we know it will happen “some day” and we push it away hoping that it will be some distant time in the future) or, faced with the prospect that it is “now” or imminent, we fight as hard as we can to continue to live.
I'm not being evasive, but the “story” of what killed him isn’t really important… his attitude about death is where the meat of the lesson lies. My father chose not to fight it, he felt his living would then be defined by fighting death. His interpretation was by not denying death and by choosing not to fight it he was cheating it of its power over him.
I was living my story of it… the loss of possibility, the loss of my conversations and debates with him, the loss of his love and support, the belief that we MUST fight death by any and every means possible and my fear of death and its’ finality. I very definitely saw him as being selfish – because he was choosing to take himself away from me… he must fight to stay with me or he was selfish.
The realization that, as I was only considering the affect his death would have on me, I was being selfish was nothing short of stunning.
That there was a different way to relate to death – embracing the inevitability of it right now rather than giving it power through aversion, avoidance and fear – opened up a whole new possibility of life and living for me that I hadn’t considered. Talk about a paradigm shift, lol, that realization was like a lightening bolt.
Acceptance is part of living! I don't think the "I am" referred to the moment of his death. It's used in the present tense. He would have said "As dead as I will be" if that's what he truly meant. After all, was his heart not thumping as he said it?
It might be the way I wrote it. I had essentially asked him to consider our feelings, to think about the people who he would be leaving behind and he said "I won't care; I will be dead and gone and my concerns about the people I love will be gone, done... as dead as I am".
He never speculated on an afterlife… said it was a useless thing; we’ll all know that in time, but not in our lifetime. To him, the only way to look at it from this side of death was... when you died you just ceased to be. Any cares or concerns died with you. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 10:35:03 AM |
First, even though this was a pivotal moment in my life… an A-Ha moment that is seared in my memory, it is worth keeping in mind my perceptions were from who I was in my twenties, which effect my interpretations of “what happened” and “what it meant” to him and to me. Another factor is pulling it from memory and interpreting it with where I am now. Those are some fairly significant distortions, lol. It is very much a conversation I would like to have with him now, with the benefit of life experience.
Most people try to cheat death, even if we rationally know we’re not getting out of life alive. I think the way many of us try to “cheat” it is by ignoring the possibility of death (sure, we know it will happen “some day” and we push it away hoping that it will be some distant time in the future) or, faced with the prospect that it is “now” or imminent, we fight as hard as we can to continue to live.
I'm not being evasive, but the “story” of what killed him isn’t really important… his attitude about death is where the meat of the lesson lies. My father chose not to fight it, he felt his living would then be defined by fighting death. His interpretation was by not denying death and by choosing not to fight it he was cheating it of its power over him.
I was living my story of it… the loss of possibility, the loss of my conversations and debates with him, the loss of his love and support, the belief that we MUST fight death by any and every means possible and my fear of death and its’ finality. I very definitely saw him as being selfish – because he was choosing to take himself away from me… he must fight to stay with me or he was selfish.
The realization that, as I was only considering the affect his death would have on me, I was being selfish was nothing short of stunning.
That there was a different way to relate to death – embracing the inevitability of it right now rather than giving it power through aversion, avoidance and fear – opened up a whole new possibility of life and living for me that I hadn’t considered. Talk about a paradigm shift, lol, that realization was like a lightening bolt.
Now I'm understanding you more clearly. I see where your father was coming from. Originally I thought he just chose to kill himself, as I misunderstood your first post. No, he wasn't selfish for it if that's how he chose to die. I respect him it if anything. Someone else in that situation may have chosen to do their best to survive, and cheat death for another few years, pondering and worrying is death just around the corner, thus death would already have a grip on the soul, without that person realizing it.
He could have expressed himself better to you though. You are his daughter after all, and surely he'd want you to understand properly his reasonings before he departed this world and not let you try to figure it out for yourself twenty years on!! I would want you to understand fully in his situation, if I were him.
It might be the way I wrote it. I had essentially asked him to consider our feelings, to think about the people who he would be leaving behind and he said "I won't care; I will be dead and gone and my concerns about the people I love will be gone, done... as dead as I am".
He never speculated on an afterlife… said it was a useless thing; we’ll all know that in time, but not in our lifetime. To him, the only way to look at it from this side of death was... when you died you just ceased to be. Any cares or concerns died with you.
What bothers me here is the way your father said "I won't care". It implies, to me, that he still believed that he will be, but just free of burden. He also said he would be gone, but gone doesn't mean he won't exist. I would have thought "I won't exist to care" would have been a better way of putting it, but I can understand why he might not have realised what I think is an important distinction. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 10:59:50 AM |
He could have expressed himself better to you though. You are his daughter after all, and surely he'd want you to understand properly his reasonings before he departed this world and not let you try to figure it out for yourself twenty years on!! I would want you to understand fully in his situation, if I were him.
I've spent longer than that trying to figure out what is being a human being, lol.
Perhaps it was a gift? There is a lot of lesson in it... a shift in how I thought. Sometimes leaving a piece of it for someone to put their own interpretation on it is bigger/more powerful than tying it up with a bow and stamping it with your own interpretation. I think he respected my mind sufficiently not to overly impose his p.o.v. I don't know that I'd have the restraint to do that. He and I had many chats and debates throughout his life... and certainly very much in his final months.
What bothers me here is the way your father said "I won't care". It implies, to me, that he still believed that he will be, but just free of burden. He also said he would be gone, but gone doesn't mean he won't exist. I would have thought "I won't exist to care" would have been a better way of putting it, but I can understand why he might not have realised what I think is an important distinction.[/quote
Given he accepted he would cease to be, it is only possible he would cease to care. I'm certain he expressed it that way out of belief, but also to shock and make me think. You're wanting him to comfort me *smiles* I think he was after something he felt was more essential. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 2:40:49 PM | Life unfortunately is our teacher! As we go through life we learn from experiences through our interactions with others, both bad and good. We perceive others through our own experiences. We should not be judgmental of others as at the end of the day we are all only getting through life the best way we know how! I will join the monastery, see my therapist and take my lithium to help me through, thanks for the advice x! Life will also teach you not to take things so seriously and that language is a form of communication, so keep it simple! And yes you are on chapter 100 but that is a kiddies book, I am on chapter 1 of an adults book!Bye
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I hope you don't mind me correcting your spellings. its a compulsion.No we should not be judgmental nor should we get personal with someone we don't know and have never met.To judge those we do not personally know defies logic and all common sense.I always keep it simple but my thinking is complex and needs meditation to untangle it.Only chapter one at your age, surely you should be in the middle of that life book , thinking every picture will be the one on the mortuary card.Enough silliness for one evening methinks.Read the whole thread my feisty one, and comment on the topic. Your comment is off topic and irrelevant. Margo if your father was focused on dying then this is all he could think about.His thinking was not logical or clear.I realize this was hurtful but don't take it personally.it was not at the end about anyone else but your dad,it was not personal. These were his concepts and thoughts. You could do nothing to change or control them. Let it go into the vapours and focus on your own life."Go go "if you don't care and think she is a nice girl, what else matters.!Death teaches us to embrace and do what we love , why have regrets . It teaches us to do whats in our hearts, so get out that guitar and play a storm. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/12/2008 4:01:58 PM |
Margo if your father was focused on dying then this is all he could think about.His thinking was not logical or clear.I realize this was hurtful but don't take it personally.it was not at the end about anyone else but your dad,it was not personal. These were his concepts and thoughts. You could do nothing to change or control them. Let it go into the vapours and focus on your own life."Go go "if you don't care and think she is a nice girl, what else matters.!Death teaches us to embrace and do what we love , why have regrets . It teaches us to do whats in our hearts, so get out that guitar and play a storm.
umm diablera, what we have here is a failure to communicate (sorry, I love that scene in Cool Hand Luke) . I must go back to see how I've expressed myself because obviously I have been inadequate. What have I said that has you feel I took this personally? One of the lessons out of this was it wasn't personal. Or that I haven't let it go? Or am embroiled in regret?
How do you know what state his thinking was? It seemed especially logical and clear most of the time, but part of the joy of being with him in those last months was his also sharing his working through his wavery moments. (there were a few but surprisingly few of them). Are you, perhaps, projecting how you imagine choosing to let go and die would affect someone?
Of course it did hurt. I'm long out of mourning, although I would dearly love to have another conversation with him about it from my vantage point today.
When I said I think he was after something more essential than comforting (in case that’s where I wasn’t clear) it was this…. Living with him through his choice, and our many conversations about, oh things like… choice in life, what makes a life worth living, what is being, what is meaning, what is death, his death and, of course, revisiting all of that alone with the finality of his death, the funeral, followed by mourning... it was quite the ride. This experience very much altered how I viewed the world, life and being. .. and gave me a significant leap on accepting death as a life stage not to be feared. << Think of it as living for a while in the pages of Sogyal Rinpoche’s Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
Death was very much one of my teachers about life. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/13/2008 3:03:28 AM |
Life unfortunately is our teacher! As we go through life we learn from experiences through our interactions with others, both bad and good. We percieve others through our own experinecs. We should not be judgemental of others as at the end of the day we are all only getting through life the best way we know how! I will join the monastry, see my therapist and take my lithium to help me through, thanks for the advice x! Life will also teach you not to take things so seriously and that langauge is a form of communication, so keep it simple! And yes you are on chapter 100 but that is a kiddies book, I am on chapter 1 of an adults book!Bye
I don't know why, but I get the impression from this post that you're a very angry man. Just the tone really.
Lithium won't get rid of any issues you may have, but only suppress them. Confront these issues and you might find that you no longer need a therapist or drugs to sleep well at night.
Also, perhaps you should put down the adult book and dust of the the childrens one. There's an inner child in us all. Communicate with it and you'll be happier than ever before. Suppress it if you want, but you can read until the 100th chapter in the adult book and it might teach you about life, but it won't teach you about yourself :-) | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/13/2008 1:16:55 PM | My father chose his death. Not suicide, but he chose to live his life knowing it was also choosing a death sentence. He figured he had cheated death.
"Most people don't choose how they are going to live, and I have. Most people don't get to choose how they are going to die, and I am."
I was in my twenties at the time, my first real up-close-and-personal experience with death. So I fought him on his choice. I pounded on the table... "What about US dad? What about the effect your death has on US?"
He leaned back in his chair, spreading his arms wide and said "I won't care"
I was stunned into silence with tears stinging my eyes. He continued "I will be dead and gone and my concerns about the people I love will be gone, done... as dead as I am". He paused while I absorbed that, then quietly asked... "Why do you say us when you mean YOU. You mean to ask why don't I love you enough to choose to live my life for you, in the way you want me to"
OK, I allowed. (he did have a point that hit me in the guts).
"I do love you and am proud of you. But, who are you to be so selfish?" he asked, "Who are you that you think your wishes are more important than mine?"
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I went and read your post Margo as I should have before replying to you. I was replying in ignorance, never a good thing.I don't know your Dads thoughts but they were clearly focused on his departure from this world and the way he wished it to be.Your dad sounds quite a man , very aware and insightful. His death and the way of it was his concern and his choice to make. A hard blow indeed for you to take.Attachment is not true love and in the end we choose for ourselves.Your dad whatever people think about his decisions had the absolute right to make them. Only he had control in this matter, he was telling you that, as you know. In the end we control only ourselves and even death often is not of our choosing but an untimely end.Your Dad decided he was going to control his own destiny and choose for himself. Neither guilt not attachment to family was going to sway him.To be able to say to someone be who you are, choose what you must without censor is true love indeed.From what I gather from your post above , you seem to have demonstrated this love. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/13/2008 9:53:38 PM | I am sorry! You are a wonderful person! Please remove moderately attractive and only a teaching assistant from your profile! That role is extremely important, you are important! I am sorry for judging you and for being inappropriate! I love poetry and think that some one that writes it has alot of insight into their feelings and the feelings of others and reading some of your replies to others on the forum I see that I misjudged you!
You are for this planet and you being here enhances it!
We should start again and maybe not be judgemental of each other, I would like to know the real you (maybe I could learn something), if you don't want to take the risk I understand! Sorry x
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/15/2008 3:47:23 PM | Time
(Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say.
Great lyrics from Pink Floyd as always. Life is so short and fleeting, so why look back in regret.We get bound up in so many things, like distracting attachments , imprisoning fears, useless beliefs and futile guilt.Attachments are the things we fill the emptiness of our spirit with, in the belief they will make us happy.It can be a person , house,money, work, fashion or the media.We feel we cannot be alone and we cling to a person.Happiness is always present if we accept into our lives and drop fear from the equation and all the worldly attachments. The beliefs we have been programed with about ourselves and the world also hinder us.In childhood we are often programmed to be this or that or achieve for others and ignore our own dreams.In adulthood we are free of these chains but still willingly remain in their clasp. Our beliefs which are often false about ourselves and life, control our thinking and actions and hinder us from gaining true happiness. Our fears lock us behind crippling walls and out of the world. To be happy and enjoy life we need to find our happiness within,it is possible to be happy alone or without riches , others do it every day.Life is to be lived with a free, peaceful heart and death reached with one. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/15/2008 6:39:07 PM | | one of roger waters' finer moments. he said he was on a train once, going from cambridge i think to london and on a wall paralell to the train was a piece of art that said 'wake up, go to work, come home, sleep, wake up.....' over and over again for what seemed like ten minutes until finally everything went dark as the train entered a tunnel which signified death. This sowed the seed for a lot of the ideas on dark side of the moon. why are we here, how we treat eachother, fear of death and so on. death is inevitable. life is not so lets do our best to live it. goddamnit lol | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/16/2008 11:02:27 AM |
Time
(Mason, Waters, Wright, Gilmour) 7:06
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.
Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say.
Great lyrics from Pink Floyd as always. Life is so short and fleeting, so why look back in regret.We get bound up in so many things, like distracting attachments , imprisoning fears, useless beliefs and futile guilt.Attachments are the things we fill the emptiness of our spirit with, in the belief they will make us happy.It can be a person , house,money, work, fashion or the media.We feel we cannot be alone and we cling to a person.Happiness is always present if we accept into our lives and drop fear from the equation and all the worldly attachments. The beliefs we have been programed with about ourselves and the world also hinder us.In childhood we are often programmed to be this or that or achieve for others and ignore our own dreams.In adulthood we are free of these chains but still willingly remain in their clasp. Our beliefs which are often false about ourselves and life, control our thinking and actions and hinder us from gaining true happiness. Our fears lock us behind crippling walls and out of the world. To be happy and enjoy life we need to find our happiness within,it is possible to be happy alone or without riches , others do it every day.Life is to be lived with a free, peaceful heart and death reached with one.
I haven't heard that song in a longtime! Awesome lyrics indeed!
Did anyone see Bush on Sky News today? Scare mongering. "We'll get tougher on Iran", "The facts are we need to worry about terrorism, there is a very real threat..." blah blahbiddy blah blah blah. Same old rhetoric (some true, to be fair), but only 6 weeks worth of real power left. And why bring historians to Downing Street? Would it be to give insightful information on why he was right to invade Iraq for fictitious reason? Why am I talking about this in this thread?
Well here's why! President Bush plays on peoples fears. In fact, he thrives on them. There has been one single terrorist attack in the States over the past ten years, US have killed how many millions through war? Yet, if you go to the US there are people (a lot of people) living in fear, wondering, will I be next?
It reminds of my youth (I'm still young-ish). Many moons ago, I attended school with a fine chap called Humphrey. Humphrey was one of God's special little creatures; blessed with an insuperable innocence, his little smiling face was enough to brighten the dreariest of days. The sad thing was that for all the sweetness and light that little Humphrey brought to our lives, he was an idiot. Not in a "I know that it's wrong but I shall lick this wall socket" way but in a blathering, gawping, completely vacant stare kind of way. And because of his idiocy, little Humphrey used to shit his pants almost every other day. Innocent as he was, Humphrey was sufficiently compos mentis to realise that this was not the done thing and each time this happened, recognising that he was about to be put out in the yard while his underwear ripened, he would wail and slap his little face vigorously.
Every time I see Muslim women on TV ululating about the latest car bombing or whatever, I can't help but smile as I think of little Humphrey, his banana breath, and his shitty little trousers. But, despite his obvious shortcomings, I loved Humphrey and I always realised he was in another place, a parrallel dimension, sorta. I felt sorry for him and always defended him when being bullied. While his physical body encompassed a rather large area of the school yard, his mental body always seemed to be elsewhere. Years later, it turned out that little Humphrey's grandmother would mind him at weekends. Apparently she was somewhat of a consipracty theorist and believed that should little Humphrey so much speak the Lords' name in vain, his soul would be vanquished to that evil resting place we all know as Hell! This was a Factoid she felt necessary to remind little Humphrey of every hour of every weekend he spent in her company.
This, of course, was all utter nonsense. But the affect is had on Humphrey was profound. The fear instilled in Humphrey's mind grew and grew throughout the years, his anger fed his own anger and simply created yet more anger. Eventually poor little Humphrey had to be hospitalized to a psychiatric unit because he feared the Devil was coming for him. He spent his whole life without a voice, without his own thought because of fear; fear so great, that, when activated, made him shit his pants!
This is why people have to live in the Now. Leave go of the fear and hate. Take the world for what it is and has become. Listen to both sides of the story, and form your own opinion, your own voice. Accept that the only destiny we control is our own. Let us not relinquish our thoughts to fear from the powers that be. A society of people present is more powerful than any government. No lies can hide and no fear can live in the power of the Now!
Let us not become a society of Humphreys. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/16/2008 6:53:29 PM | You have to first understand the implications of death, because without it, life wouldn't even exist.
Just how there cannot be good without evil, or light without darkness, it is nature that governs this phenomenon, and with good reason. Without Winter, there would be no spring, no rebirth, no revival, and the Death Card itself in the Tarot signifies an end, to which spawns a new beginning.
Alot of this Topic is on track, saying how important one's own philosophy is when dealing with issues that arises in life. One's own ability to take in our environment, being conscious about our surroundings, and taking awareness of the fact that we can choose how we respond to these events, is what makes us Human. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/17/2008 2:36:35 PM | The history of human life,the universal secret , the secret from which all secrets spring is the longing for more life.The furious and insatiable desire,to be everything else without ever ceasing to be ourselves.To take possession of the entire universe without letting the universe take possession of us and absorb us.It is the desire to be some else ,without ceasing to be myself and continue to be myself at the same time , I am someone else-- Mark Strand --The monument.
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Dissatisfaction with self, with possessions ,with a partner is such a waste of time.The grass is always greener on yonder hill. That other women/men out in the dating scene are more attractive/ eligible than the the one, you have. Your bank a/c is never full enough or your belly.When you are endlessly dissatisfied, how can you live in the Now or be happy. When you are at the mercy of your ego and others opinions/approval about you and your life, you are living your life for others not yourself.You do things to gain approval and deny your own wants and needs. This breeds anger and resentment and closes down honest communication.When you are dissatisfied with yourself and forever striving to change things about yourself, does it work.You just end up the at the mercy of self hatred and futile self flagellation. Far better maybe to observe yourself instead, your thoughts, actions and reactions and emotions.Observe objectively without censure.Know yourself thoroughly the good and bad without judgment. From this comes self awareness, the greatest gift we give ourselves.Death comes to all but the self aware person is living in the Now, the present. They learn from the past but don't dwell on it. It has served its purpose, that of sometimes harsh teacher.Comparing ourselves to others is futile. The only comparison is who we are now, compared to who we were.How much we have grown within ourselves in emotional maturity and individuality. Each person is totally unique as our DNA shows, we can only be our own selves.Whats the point of living our lives pretending to be some else,death surely teaches us to live it ,as ourselves. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 6/27/2008 2:02:02 PM | It is possible to be happy on your own, to be completely fulfilled even when completely isolated. To truely love and to be truely loved may not always make you feel happy but immersed in its intensity is where a person can feel truely alive, it is where I want to be. To love, share, care for more than yourself, adore, laugh with, sing with, dance with, sit on a beach with, hold hands with, kiss, pray with/for, nurse when ill, to be completely selfless with and know that you can completely trust them. "It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all".
I thought that I was happy alone, indepedent and needed no one to make me happy! But being happy is not necesarily the ultimate goal. Learning is part of life, through experiences both good and bad. I misjudged you and from that I learnd not to do it again, and will not do it again.
I have loved and lost, but that has thought me the value of true love and made me cherish the idea of it happening to me even more! I am not running anymore! "Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain"! I will learn from/live my life and not fear my eternal rest!
Thank you for forgiving me for being hurtful towards you and I will not do it again! You are truely "a women of substance"! | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 7/2/2008 6:10:18 PM | Thank you, I am touched.We are all fallible though and prey to our egos.I feel mine expanding as I write.Someone said to me the other day, they were figuring out what made them happy. I thought what a basic but vital question. and one we rarely think about.We know what we think makes us happy, but do those things really achieve that aim.We have so many fears. We fear Commitment , love, responsibility, all the things that make us strong and help us grow. So inevitably we fear our own growth.We carry heavy burdens of useless guilt,hurt , resentment and hate that poison us inside and prevent joy entering our lives.These feelings are useless and achieve nothing.Us humans!! we want to believe we can control the world, other people, the weather, whatever.We find it hard to admit we have no control, over anything.We are mortal creatures,our existence is limited to a short spell on this planet.We all have free will, free choice. Every person has the right to exercise that right, if our partner decides to leave us to be with another, he/she is exercising free choice. This we cannot control. They must take personal responsibility for those choices for good or bad.We must accept others choices and react when necessary in the correct way for us.We in turn will exercise choice in a way that hurts others, we must take responsibility for this. So the circle continues.When we are complete in ourselves, we can open our hearts and reach out to others, we do not fear that they will leave nor feel the need to cling. We allow the other person the freedom of choice at all times.We in turn exercise our own freedom. So a relationship develops that is free of pressure, guilt or stress.
When we experience real love , we always have that experience to treasure.Many go through life never knowing it.Why run at all, stay still and embrace love and all it entails, bad and good.It is good you have stopped running, because now you will win the race with much less effort.Death is the eye opener, that we need to actually live , to stand still and let life enclose us, with all its pangs. | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 7/3/2008 3:20:52 PM | A teacher imparts lessons - which only the living can benefit from. Death is the end of all.
While I agree that the awareness of the fact that death is inevitable can teach us to appreciate life, death itself imparts no wisdom. But life does. So I make most out of what life teaches you while it lasts.... | |
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 7/4/2008 4:03:00 PM | It is possible to be happy on your own, to be completely fulfilled even when completely isolated. To truely love and to be truely loved may not always make you feel happy but immersed in its intensity is where a person can feel truely alive, it is where I want to be. To love, share, care for more than yourself, adore, laugh with, sing with, dance with, sit on a beach with, hold hands with, kiss, pray with/for, nurse when ill, to be completely selfless with and know that you can completely trust them. "It is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all".
I thought that I was happy alone, indepedent and needed no one to make me happy! But being happy is not necesarily the ultimate goal. Learning is part of life, through experiences both good and bad. I misjudged you and from that I learnd not to do it again, and will not do it again.
I have loved and lost, but that has thought me the value of true love and made me cherish the idea of it happening to me even more! I am not running anymore! "Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain"! I will learn from/live my life and not fear my eternal rest!
Thank you for forgiving me for being hurtful towards you and I will not do it again! You are truely "a women of substance
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True colors ---Cyndi Lauper
You with the sad eyes
don't be discouraged
oh I realize
it's hard to take courage
in a world full of people
you can lose sight of it all
and the darkness inside you
can make you fell so small
But I see your true colors
shining through
I see your true colors
and that's why I love you
so don't be afraid to let them show
your true colors
true colors are beautiful
like a rainbow
Show me a smile then
don't be unhappy, can't remember
when I last saw you laughing
if this world makes you crazy
and you've taken all you can bear
you call me up
because you know I'll be there
And I'll see your true colors
shining through
I see your true colors
and that's why I love you
so don't be afraid to let them show
your true colors
true colors are beautiful
like a rainbow
I love this song and it encompasses my philosophy of life, That someones real self--true colors are always good enough. I agree life is our ultimate teacher and if we live as our basic real selves, masks off we gain so much more from it.This takes tremendous courage and takes a lot of personal growth to achieve.We are all striving to gain enlightenment but most of us I reckon, find that a struggle. I know I do.But life is for living and doing what what truly makes us happy.
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| Is death rather than life our teacher
Posted: 7/9/2008 6:36:52 PM | This is from my My space = its a good read
Today our topic is romantic love. I wish to relieve you of some of the pressure which your society has put upon you and guide you instead to a more relaxed view of life and the role of romantic love within it...
First, let us take a look at some of the expectations which your society has laid upon you. You are expected to be educated, attractive, slender and wealthy, full of a youthful vigor no matter what your age. And if you have not managed to achieve all this, then there is something wrong with you; you have failed in some essential way...
You are also told by your society that you are to get married and have children, and that this is to be a romantic bond which will last your entire lifetime. You are to find a partner who will always love you, will love you romantically, in the tradition of wine and roses, and also care for you, partner with you, be at your side through thick and thin, loving you ever and always without fail for your entire lives, lives which are now expected to stretch out for ninety years...
And if you are spiritual, you are expected not only to find this paragon of virtue, but he must be a soul mate, someone who was destined to be with you and whom you will recognize through a golden glow of rightness, someone who will connect with you on higher planes as well as in this existence...
My, my. This is a lot for one lifetime, is it not? A lot of expectation. A lot of pressure. A lot of nonsense...
Life is what it is. It will bring you many, many experiences. And for some of you, it may be the right thing to marry and stay married. For some of you, this will not be right at all. For many of you, in the length of a lifetime, you will travel part of it with one person and part with another. You will, as you walk your path, have times when you are comfortably strolling hand-in-hand with another and times when their paths swerve off in a different direction from you. You will have times when the sun is shining and the light of love is pouring down upon you, and times when you are alone and traveling, perhaps in darkness, perhaps with the guidance of a moon overhead, but your hand is empty. And this is also right...
We have not discussed a very important aspect of romantic love, which is sexuality. This is, of course, also a part of your great expectations. You are expected to stay youthful and sexy and to attract the right person in this way. And between the two of you, as the years pass, you are expected, somehow, to keep this great heat of sexuality glowing brightly, even as you age, even as you become so used to each other that this spark cannot help but dull. But still, you are taught that there is something wrong with you if you cannot somehow achieve all of this...
And so, let us look a bit at what romantic love is and what it is not. It is not fulfillment. It is not achievement. It is not the path to finding yourself. That is a path which must be traveled alone and inside...
But what is it? Certainly, in its beginning stages, falling in love is a state of intoxication, as chemicals, wonderful chemicals, rush through your body, blinding you to the calm reason which you had managed to achieve before you were completely swept away by this other human being who wishes to meld with you, blend with you, become one with you. This can be an amazing and glorious experience. This melding of love, sexuality and togetherness. It is a deeply human experience and one that you will wish to experience...
Ah, but like any drug, the crash can be painful indeed. And when it all begins to wear off, either suddenly after six months or so, or perhaps slowly over the years in a relationship of longer duration, then you wonder what has happened. You wonder what is wrong with you that you cannot hold on to this person, to this feeling, to this relationship. You think you have failed. But all that has happened is that you had an experience and that experience is over...
There is no success or failure. It is simply life. It is simply an experience. And when it is over, you release and let go; you move on...
The mistake that is made so often is that people think they are saved from the work of getting to know themselves. They think that suddenly everything will be glorious, because that is how it feels at the beginning. But there is also much else happening at the beginning. You are in a state of obsession, focusing so much on this other person that you are losing yourself. You are merging into one person, and without this other person you no longer feel whole...
And if it ends badly, you feel bereft and incomplete. You gave yourself away and now he has left, and you are left as an incomplete person. And you must now step back and rebuild yourself, from the inside out, trying to find who you were before this person took such a large piece of you...
Some of this is simply the way it happens. When you allow yourself to love, you do give away some pieces of your heart, and it takes time and tender loving care to replace that love within your heart. But if you are a more mature person spiritually, you can learn to allow a person into your field of love, you can learn to give love without giving yourself away. You can learn to give and give and yet not feel that you are incomplete if you are not getting. This is the state to be desired...
If you can manage to keep your spiritual practices intact, continuing with your meditations and focusing deeply into yourself and reminding yourself that you are the most important source of love, rather than scheming and manipulating in order to try to gain someone else’s love, crying bitter tears when they do not give you what you think you need from them, then you will be fine...
You can learn to give yourself what you need, even when you are in love with someone else. When you do this, the relationship is transformed. When you do this, you are not clinging and jealous, complaining and worried. You are calm and centered and just enjoying the positive aspects of giving love and letting it flow. You are bathing in the love which you give as well as that which you receive, and if they are focused elsewhere for a time, that is all right, because you are still acting as your primary source of love...
No one else in the world can fulfill you. No one else can make you whole. And you do not need to give yourself away to someone else in a vain trade to become whole person. Becoming a whole person is up to you, completely up to you. And you can do it, whether or not you have a romantic partner...
Know that it is this society at this time which has told you that you must fall in love and find this great soul mate for life. Not all societies have arranged things in this way at all. It is not a pronouncement from on high. This may be the way for you and it may not. You must find your own way, step by step. There is nothing wrong with you if you are not in a loving marriage with a deeply connected soul mate...
So focus first and always on yourself and doing what your life demands. Know these steps on your path through your heart of rightness. Learn to get deeply in touch with your own self, with the guidance coming from your own soul self, as felt deep in your center...
And then, solid and steady, full of love and connectedness with life itself, you will better be able to sort things out when you are swept away in a rush of sexual chemicals, when you tumble head over heels. If you have a solid center and have kept in touch, have learned how to go beyond fear and doubt and to consult with yourself, then you will be able to sort out whether this person is truly good for you, whether they are treating you with respect and caring, whether it is a connection in which you should invest years or whether it is a connection which you might enjoy for a weekend...
Build up your own connection with yourself and you will know all of this. You will feel it. And when you see the truth, when you know it truly, then have the courage to act on it. Know that you are capable of surviving any loss. It simply takes time for your body to recover from the intoxicating drug of love. But it can be done. It is done every minute of every day, all the time. There is no reason to be desperate. Your life does not depend upon another person. Your happiness, your fulfillment, none of this depends upon another person. It is all yours to create...
Even if you have been left by a husband of many years, you can create a fulfilling and joyous life for yourself. Just learn to forgive and let go. Learn to release and move on. Pull yourself out of the anger and regrets of the past and into now, this moment, where the sun shines and life sparkles around you in endless and limitless possibility...
And if you are not with anyone now and are seeking someone, pull yourself out of fantasies over the future and into now. Do not load each encounter with another person with all of your fantasies and expectations. There is no way that anyone could live up to all that movies and television, advertisements and society's foolish pronouncements have led you to expect from some poor human being who happens to enter your life...
These fantasies are not real. This is real. This moment, right now. Are you alone? Fine, enjoy that. Step outside and take a deep breath and let the glow of life fill you. Are you with someone else, but they are not living up to your expectations, they are disappointing you? Then let go of your expectations. No one can disappoint you unless you have built up a fantasy world in which they are expected to do and be certain things. Take this burden off their shoulders and just let them be who they truly are, not who you want them to be...
Stop trying to remake everyone. Take them as they are. Take them exactly as they are. And if that is not right for you, then let them go. It is very simple. You are who you are. He is who he is. Let that be. And if the two of you choose to live together, wonderful. That is today. This is the way of it...
But if you are trying to act like someone you are not, let it go. If he is trying to please you by pretending to be someone he is not, let go those expectations and allow him to be who he is. Find out who you are and who he is and see if that is a partnership worth working on for many years...
And if, right now, this moment, you find yourself sitting next to a glorious human, glowing with himself and yet also loving you, if you are blessed with the flood of love from another human being, then that is a blessing to be enjoyed deeply. Do enjoy it. Fill your days with gratitude that you have this time...
And know, also, that this time will end. Life is change. It will not always be like this and it is all right. Fill this moment with gratitude and soak in the beauty of your connection, the beauty of your sexuality fully expressed, the beauty of an open flowing heart which is met with love. Ah, yes, do enjoy it. Enjoy every moment. Fill yourself with it...
And then, when it begins to change, let it evolve. Let it evolve and release the past. Keep it as a treasured memory. If you are fortunate enough that your falling in love leads to a deeply loving relationship of many years duration, then know too that it will still be evolution, it will still be change. A human being cannot live in a continual state of intoxication and go about the business of living. Thing will change. Certainly when those children come, your life will be radically altered and you will have different bonds of love flowing...
Let it all be as it wishes to be. Stop trying to control. Stop trying to hold on to what is gone or is quickly slipping out of your hands. Open your hands. Let land within them what is right for now, this moment. Let go that which wants to leave...
Be steady and centered within yourself and let it all flow, let it all be, let it come in and go out, let it evolve and change. This is life, and each moment is a glory and a wonder, no matter whether it holds a kiss from a lover or from that ray of sunshine which is always there for you, beaming down from the heavens, even when the clouds are dark and heavy. Still, the sun shines and blesses you. Still the love flows. Still, you are exactly as you should be, deeply loved and precious, a vital part of all that is, one with all, one in love... | |
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