| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:49:35 PM | | I do agree that many religions do appear to be harsh and negative towards women. However, you have a misconception Jaine007 regarding women being burned at the stake for being witches. I know most think or believed that it happened but it didn't. At least not in North America. They were stoned or drowned. Still not pleasant. Any burning at the stake was done outside of North America. I just had to correct that point. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:12:36 PM | Before you judge what is going on its best to search for the truth.
http://www. captivefldschildren. org/
isn't is great to live in NAZI America, where a group of people aren't allowed to raise their children after they're own religious beliefs.
the allegations that 13,-15, year old girls are getting to married to 50 year old guys is just FALSE. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 11:52:56 PM | These women are raised and groomed and further iscolated from social norms so that they can be taken advantage of, they often dont have their own minds and have been subjected to all types of abuse and have no social skills to assist them to make the decision to leave,
Education is so important and all of us can help those less fortunate best by making sure that we dont skimp on public education or health care or any of the services these people need to set themselves free
this type of abuse is more common than we know about it, this is jsut an extreme case, this is going in a suburb near you, Child prositution is rampant, and these people services available and support to change and free themselves.......... | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:13:54 AM | In case it wasn't posted....
CPS officials have conceded there is no evidence the youngest children were abused, (that is over 300+ kids) and about 130 of the children are under 5. Teenage boys were not physically or sexually abused either, according to evidence presented in a custody hearing earlier last week, but more than two dozen teenage boys are also in state custody, now staying at a boys' ranch that might typically house troubled or abandoned teens.
The only thing verifyed is that some minor girls were pregnate through their church marriages. Funny how out in our society if a girl of 13 to 15 becomes sexually active we throw condoms and the pill at her and if she gets knocked up she's offered an abortion to kill the near future problem.
I have an question....aside from ethics of either society......which society is the actual abnormal one? The society that encourages the death of most teenage pregnancies or the one that raises it into a human being with a large caring family? | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:00:35 AM | Tigerlily1 wrote:
These women are raised and groomed and further iscolated from social norms so that they can be taken advantage of, they often dont have their own minds and have been subjected to all types of abuse and have no social skills to assist them to make the decision to leave,
Education is so important and all of us can help those less fortunate best by making sure that we dont skimp on public education or health care or any of the services these people need to set themselves free
this type of abuse is more common than we know about it, this is jsut an extreme case, this is going in a suburb near you, Child prositution is rampant, and these people services available and support to change and free themselves..........
Respectfully, I really do disagree that there is any more persecution of women with the Mormons than in any other area of our American society. I disagree that the people there are captive and do not have the right to leave any time they choose to leave if that is what they want. How exactly are they an example of
extreme abuse ? Again, no one is saying that people that break the law should not have to deal with the consequences. By the same token, Americans have the RIGHT to not be falsely charged and have to prove they are innocent when then State has produced no evidence. People are still upset about the 16 year old with a 50 year old man that we now know that did not happen. The incident that triggered the whole take over was a lie. It is unconstitutional to issue search warrants to go on a fishing trip to gather evidence. How exactly are 40 nursing babies at risk that required the state to separate them from their nursing mothers? The judge already said that this is not right but again Child Protective Services is NOT at all bound by the legal system or by court rulings and they can do whatever they want based solely on suspicion without any evidence to support those suspicions.
Your statement about education is another thing that I disagree with very much. The current education system increasingly downplays the Christian foundation of our constitutional republic. The Baby Boomer elites in our universities and public K-12 schools have attempted to cut future generations of Americans off from their own history; choosing instead to emphasize 'multiculturalism' and the importance of 'diversity.' All of this occurred in a culture which substituted 'ethicists,' New Age priests of a new state-sponsored religion, secular humanism, for America's traditional Christianity. We now have 'ethics' being 'preached' by counselors, English teachers, and others in our nation's high schools - in the name of values clarification. We now have 'ethics' being 'preached' by professors in English, Literature, History, Economics, Business, Biology, and other you-name-it curricula on our nation's campuses. We even have new 'ethics' courses in our premier military academies - in particular, the Navy, Air Force Army, and Coast Guard Academies. All taught by the New Age 'preachers' and 'priests' with PhDs in 'ethics,' behavioral science, or psychology. America is rapidly losing the foundation on which our constitutional republic stands. I submit to you that Christianity is the sole force that has freed women and children from abuse and not caused it.
It is this new government sponsored religion of “secular humanism” that currently allows child prostitution of 14, 15 and 16 year old girls and boys in the city streets outside of the walls of the subject Mormons. And you have a problem with THEM? The moral compass of America is heading quickly in the direction of WWII Nazi Germany. I am very concerned about these peoples’ freedom because if this is allowed to continue then it is only a matter of time before the power of the government will turn on me and you. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:48:45 PM |
However, you have a misconception Jaine007 regarding women being burned at the stake for being witches. I know most think or believed that it happened but it didn't. At least not in North America. They were stoned or drowned. Still not pleasant. Any burning at the stake was done outside of North America. I just had to correct that point.
Misconception? It seams that you are the one with the misconception Canoe Gal. The misconception that Jaine007 was only referring to North America. Nowhere did she specify that.
And while we all know that burning was not the only way "witches" were killed, I think she just used that method to make a point. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:00:07 PM |
I'm thinking they are getting inbred. I'm thinking this too.
Mainstream normal female life:
Well, I worked all day, ate McDonalds, made my car payment, house payment, credit card payment, sent in my taxes, and it is time to go to bed alone, after 2 hours staring at the internet, then 2 hours of tv. I am still 45 pounds overweight, and just took my Prozac.I think I might need to switch to paxil. I have to do more work this weekend.. I am looking forward to my one week vacation 2 months from now. Maybe I can fix up the house! Wow, my freedom is great!
This is rude. I guess, by this person's standards, I do not live a 'Mainstream normal female life'. I have never taken PAxil or PRozac. I am not overweight, and the rest of that is a fallacy. I can't even see the point of this post, unless it is to make fun of women. And frankly, I like my big huge bed to myself. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:23:47 PM |
This is rude. I guess, by this person's standards, I do not live a 'Mainstream normal female life'. I have never taken PAxil or PRozac. I am not overweight, and the rest of that is a fallacy. I can't even see the point of this post, unless it is to make fun of women. And frankly, I like my big huge bed to myself.
Actually, I thought that was petty funny like part of the dialog in a Woody Allen movie. My guess is that his/her point is that many of us "free" people are sill somewhat imprisoned by our busy schedules to the point that we are stressed out. The calmer family life of the Mormons seems more tranquil in comparison. There can be many wonderful things for a woman that is allowed to select the job of housewife. A job that was taken away as a choice for most women in America back in the early 70's. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 8:52:54 AM | the allegations that 13,-15, year old girls are getting to married to 50 year old guys is just FALSE.
When you're looking at an actual 13-year old pregnant girl from one of these compounds, how can you even say that with a straight face? When the only man around for 100 miles is that 50-year old guy, how do you think she got pregnant in the first place?
See: Pregnant teenagers found in raid on polygamist compound
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pregnant-teenagers-found-in-raid-on-polygamist-compound/2008/04/09/1207420485585.html | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 9:13:21 AM | .
The documents released on Tuesday list additional details about the claims of the 16-year-old girl who prompted the investigation into the compound.
She claimed she was beaten and forced to have sex with her "spiritual husband" and on one occasion suffered broken ribs.
The girl called a family violence centre on March 29 to report the abuse, but called back the following day and "began crying, and then stated that she was happy and fine and does not want to get into trouble and everything she previously said should be forgotten".
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pregnant-teenagers-found-in-raid-on-polygamist-compound/2008/04/09/1207420485585.html
This poor little girl "Sarah" with the broke ribs and pregnant is a 33 year old black woman 400 miles away????
Not proof.... | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:22:16 PM | Apparently reading is not fundamental. OK, I'll cut and paste:
From: Pregnant teenagers found in raid on polygamist compound
The sect broke away from the Mormon Church in the 1930s. Its self-styled prophet, Warren Jeffs, was convicted in Utah last year of being an accomplice to rape after forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry and have sex with her 19-year-old cousin. Jeffs, 52, is awaiting trial on similar charges in Arizona.
Same link as above.
From: Sect children will stay in state custody, judge rules
Last paragraph: In court Thursday, Texas state officials presented records they said show 10 women were either married or pregnant as minors. The list was found during the raid, locked in a safe at a main ranch office building, the officials said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/18/polygamy.custody/?iref=mpstoryview
The story you posted above was from a "copycat" nut case. However, there were sexually abused and pregnant teenagers at the compound. MANY of them. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:16:15 PM |
See: Pregnant teenagers found in raid on polygamist compound
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pregnant-teenagers-found-in-raid-on-polygamist-compound/2008/04/09/1207420485585.html
“The story you posted above was from a "copycat" nut case.”
Your web site not mine... Maybe you should have read...
Pregnant or married minors??? So?
Where is due process? Where is the Proof.
Maybe Sarah will testify??
Is she Some of the Proof? | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 2:58:23 PM | Wasn't my story, it was this one:
Texas Polygamy Case: Based on a Hoax?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351969,00.html
Regardless of whether the report was a hoax, there were underage pregnant women on the compound.
Due process comes when the cases go to court.
When a child is below the age of consent, that is rape, so a 50 year old man impregnating a 13 year old is punishable by law.
Just so you know, any sexual activity with a minor under the age of 18 carries a penalty in the state of Utah:
http://www.moraloutrage.net/staticpages/index.php?page=Utah
NONE of these women were legally married, because polygamists don't get married except in the eyes of their church, and in any event you must be 18 to get married in Utah, 16 if your parents consent.
In any event, this is all getting boring. So I'm going to do what everyone else in this thread has done and take a powder.
If you want to argue for polygamists raping 13 year olds, have at at it. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 3:52:56 PM |
Regardless of whether the report was a hoax, there were underage pregnant women on the compound.
Well I'm sure there are more than one or two pregnant women under the age in my city. I guess the authorties need to do a sweep of the town and collect all the children for we can't permit this sort of thing to go on. Don't worry we will sort this thing out in the courts while your children are shipped to foster parents to live for a few years.
Karl Marx would be so very proud of you...
No, one is arguing that rape, under age marriage or abuse of women and children is acceptable. But you don't break the law to enforce the law. What the Texas law enforcement did is rape and abuse each and everyone of us of our Constitutional rights not just those people of that church... No one should ever have the authority to enter into a home on hearsay evidence!
The Texas Law enforcment is grasping at straws now to prove their illegal invasion was justfied... If it had of been then they would have blasted the airwaves with here's the proof. That of course hasn't happened so they seek to manafacture evidence from their illegal act... | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 7:10:57 PM | .
We all know how well Foster care works.....
I am sure that all the infants ripped from Parents and shifted through a few different Foster Care Providers will understand and adjust....
Isn't that a situation that causes attachment disorder???
After all everyone says we have to protect the infants and toddlers from being married off, and raped....
Sarah said she was raped at 18 months... the same time she received a skull fracture...
Texas is going to slow walk this and wait.....
The aren’t concerned about child welfare... | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 11:35:52 PM | I'm a little confused as to what makes any of you think that there are any 13 year olds that are married to 50 year old men at the Texas community. The original caller that triggered the search warrant claimed to be 16 and married to a 50 year old. Later we would find out that the caller was in fact a 33 year old Black woman that never even lived in Texas. The call was bogus.
So where exactly are you all getting your information from about the 13 year olds? My understanding is that most are 18 or older when they wed. Occasionally, perhaps a 17 year old is wed which is still legal in Texas. I personally think that people should wait until 25 or older to marry.
I'm very bothered that a search warrant was issued based on a bogus phone call so I would like to see that judge off the bench and disbarred. I also think that any of the people that work for Child Protective Services that were responsible for the separation of any children from their legally marred parents need to be prosecuted for kidnapping and for false imprisonment. If they do find any 13, 14, 15, or 16 year olds married, the husband should be prosecuted for having sex with a minor unless the man is 3 years or closer to the girl’s age which in Texas is not a crime. Although, because the search warrant was improperly executed, it is likely that the husband married to a minor assuming any exist will have to be released on constitutional grounds.
I am not sure why the 40 infants were taken away from their nursing mothers or why the mothers are still not allowed any contact with their children going on 4 weeks now. I find that very disturbing although not as disturbing as the demonization of these people by the media and the public. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/27/2008 11:56:25 PM |
they do find any 13, 14, 15, or 16 year olds married, the husband should be prosecuted for having sex with a minor unless the man is 3 years or closer to the girl’s age which in Texas is not a crime.
Since the documents being presented to the court are sealed, we can only go by what is reported in the newspapers. So far (according to newspapers), there are at least five 16 yr. old girls who have at one child or more, and are pregnant again.
Since polygamy is illegal in Texas, and there are women who have been wives of record longer, the men who are supposedly "married" to these girls, have in fact, raped them. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/28/2008 11:19:04 PM | | I have to throw in my 2 cents. Polygamy is alive and well, not just in Texas, but here in Utah, in Canada, Colorado, and Arizonia. They all belong to some branch of the FLDS. There is no doubt that this group marries young, young women to old men-often within the same family line. In addition, they are on our welfare roles--it is their legal right. This Texas case has made national news, but there are many other smaller cases similiar. And even more abuse that goes on every day, where we chose to turn and look the other way. Please don't tell me this is religious freedom--It is child abuse. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:09:24 AM |
Since polygamy is illegal in Texas...
This is a moot point since these people aren't practicing true polygamy. To be a polygamist, one must be legally married by the state. This isn't happening, so what you really have here is polyamory and not polygamy. And polyamory isn't illegal in Texas or any other state. Referring to these people as polygamous is an inaccuracy, and I find it hard to accept an opinion from anyone who so blatantly ignores this very important detail. An opinion based on known inaccurate information is not an opinion in my book, but pure drivel. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:34:08 AM | I don't know if somebody already posted this but
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/28/polygamist.retreat.ap/index.html?pc=no_id
53 girls who are still in the process of growing up... I'm so disgusted. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/29/2008 10:09:31 AM | You said 53 molested.
The article says 31 girls have children or are pregnant. It would be nice to know what this means.
My school district has a high school for Teen Mothers....
How many of the fathers are over 21 and have multiple Relationships. With Multiple Children......
400 children are in foster care.
This whole ordeal seems to be lacking many facts... Sealed.... Top Secret ...
A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3 1/2 weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. He didn't specify how many are pregnant.
"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:14:53 PM |
Since the documents being presented to the court are sealed, we can only go by what is reported in the newspapers. So far (according to newspapers), there are at least five 16 yr. old girls who have at one child or more, and are pregnant again.
If the documents are sealed then the newspapers would have no more access to them then we do. Nonetheless, assuming that information is accurate, what legal grounds required the removal of the balance of the 400+ children? I am not at all condoning polygamy or underage children having sex but the constitutional rights of every citizen, even the ones you or I may not like. I see way more criminal counts so far against the government then these Mormons. When hearsay and suspicion are allowed to take the place of evidence, we have at that point lost our freedom. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:49:09 PM | My school district has a high school for Teen Mothers....
How many of the fathers are over 21 and have multiple Relationships. With Multiple Children......
The difference here being that the underage pregnant girls you speak of actually had the luxury of making their own choices, their dear mothers didn't give them to these men under the pretense of everyone going to a better level of heaven if they complied. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:05:54 PM |
The difference here being that the underage pregnant girls you speak of actually had the luxury of making their own choices, their dear mothers didn't give them to these men under the pretense of everyone going to a better level of heaven if they complied.
That's it exactly.
If an adult woman who is aware of other choices and capable of surviving on her own decides to share a man with other women, it's one thing.
If a teenage girl who was given none to minimal education, was never exposed to other ways of thinking, knows nothing else and is pretty much told that she will go to hell if she doesn't cooperate is is given in marriage to a man old enough to be her father or grandfather, it's something else entirely.
What I find disturbing is that there are posters who don't see anything wrong with this... | |
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