timj82
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Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 76 | |
| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/9/2008 10:11:39 PM |
They are terrified to live outside those 4 walls because of the dreadful things they have been told.
I went to 8 years of Catholic School and I still remember the priest telling us in 8th grade how wicked high school would be | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/9/2008 11:07:41 PM |
Only in the past hundred years or so has teenage marriage become taboo.
Taboo or not, with parental consent, girls can still legally get married at 16 in most states in the US.
Marriageable Age in the USA:
Usually 18. Most states, however, allow marriage at a younger age with parental and/or judicial consent. Some states allow marriage at a still younger age if the female is pregnant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age
Girls can get married at 12 in MA, 13 in TX (and others) with parental consent and permission of a judge. 15 in MS, no consent required. Even younger yet with parental consent and/or permission of a judge in a few other states. And if pregnant, at any age, in some states, the need for parental consent appears to be able to be waived by a judge.
Got a daughter? Check your state out here: www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm
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All of the above is moot though, because the 'unions' of the FLDS are not legal marriages, they're 'celestial'. So technically, in the eyes of the law, they're not polygamists, merely adulterers.
www.religioustolerance.org/lds_poly1.htm
www.religioustolerance.org/flds.htm | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:54:19 AM | You know, I cannot believe some of the posts I'm reading here. Not exactly a think tank, this place, is it.
People thinking these women love their lives, feminists are trying to pull them out of there because we are threatened that some women actually have morals? I don't necessarily think a woman is moral who would give her daughter to a 'prophet' at the age of 12 or 14, and I think a woman who lets anyone abuse her children is the farthest thing from moral. And yes, the world out here can be crazy and maddening and mixed up and bad. But at least we can prosecute nasty old men who want to sleep with our daughters. At least we can call the police on people who physically abuse us and our children. At least we have individuality.
Yes, some of them are happy. But so is my goldfish. He doesn't know there are other tanks I can buy for him that are bigger and have heaters and lights and pretty plants.
Oh and I posted something incorrectly the other day about the financial aspect of this place. I said that they are self sufficient. I was wrong. A lot of these women receive food stamps as 'single mothers' for their broods of up to 10 kids....paid for by your tax dollars....now do we have your attention?
After everything you've seen on the news in the last several days, do you still think that these are peaceful God loving people who just want to live their lives in peace? | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 4:30:59 AM | I think cultism is hardly a fashion.
I can't disagree more. Especially in the bible belt, I know tons of people who go to church as a status marker. Church congregations can easily be compared to high school status clicks. For instance:
Catholics = The preppy kids who are convinced that they are better than everyone else.
Baptists = The wannabe preppy kids who PRETEND to be convinced that they are better than everyone else.
Pentecostal = The reject emo kids who think they are proving a point by not conforming.
Scientology = The brainiac conspiracy theorists who stay late after school arguing semantics with their physics teacher because they know they when they leave school they will not fit into any click whatsoever.
I can go on all day. But what I am really trying to point out is that religion is very much about fashion. Just as much as the clothes all of these kids wear. It's a badge worn so that everyone can everyone will know what "team" you're on.
this is from the interview Matt Lauer did with Carolyn Jessup that Enigma posted some of earlier
I would have to hear many other sides to the story before I make a solid opinion of the religion and/or community. I can't base it on the perspective of a few individuals.
I'm not saying that women and children shouldn't have rights. But I think for anyone to dedicate their lives to this kind of lifestyle, there would have to be great expectations of sacrifice. I seriously doubt that anyone would join this type of compound and expect to live their lives the same as the people on the outside. And as for children being born into this situation and not being able to make their own decisions, it's nothing different from a kid being bone in to a family of Jehovah's Witnesses who does not know what it's like to have a birthday party or celebrate Christmas. Even I was forced to go to church against my will by my parents for 14 years.
You can say that these people are brainwashed. But as an atheist, I believe that pretty much any member of a religion that believes in an all powerful, imaginary being is brain washed. Every time I hear a 10-year-old kid quoting the scripture, my heart sinks, and I wonder how anyone can force such a strong personal opinion onto a kid. And yes, I do think it's a form of unintentional cruelty.
I can totally agree with you point on abuse, but what I don't necessarily agree with at this time is that this church promoted child abuse. My Grandfather beat his wife and kids for years and happened to be Baptist. Does that mean that the Baptist church condoned his actions? Could it be that these acts of water boarding infants had nothing to do with their religion whatsoever, but mere acts of violence by mentally unstable men who happened to also be a member of that community? Was this religion telling the men that this is how they should raise their children?
I could go on all day, but for now I have to go to work.
Have a good day everyone. | |
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| polygamist compound
Posted: 4/10/2008 5:28:27 AM | Hi Lady! Religion was invented to control EVERYBODY, not just women. You don't have to go to theological college to find this out, just look for a community course in 'Occult Sciences'. You'll be fascinated! Remember that as religions developed, they were basically part of the ruling faction's systems to collect taxes. Control is always the prime mover!! Is there any real difference between 'Hail Mary', 'Praise God!' and 'Heil Hitler!'?
Both of these factions even use hand and arm motions, as they chant/say it! Neat, huh? Combines body and soul, doesn't it?
Basic history should give you all the info you really need, on this subject.
Now, tell me, aside from the Salvation Army, which actually does 'good', what other religion, or any part of it does anything worth while? Cults do serve their organizer's interests admirably. The main purpose being to get laid a lot!
I noticed in your profile, Edisto, that you seem to believe in organic. Have you ever heard of Wicca? Basically, worship of mother earth, etc. This is where religion actually got it's start, in primitive times. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:16:00 AM | But what I am really trying to point out is that religion is very much about fashion.
I didn't say anything about religion. If you are saying that religion is a cult then that is different. Whether the particular religious sects you mention mimic these stereotypes that could be debated. Having a system of beliefs or belief system doesn't necessarily have to be an organized religion. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:36:22 AM | | As far as how they support all those kids... only the 1st wife is recognised as legal by the Gov't so all the other "wives" are viewed as single parents and many do recieve welfare and food stamps as single mothers. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:53:19 AM |
Whats with Texas and stand offs with religious compounds?
Message: I'm not sure Charles ~ we are a large country ~ in the rural area's even among the poor ~ people homes can easily be miles apart. ~ It's a live and let live state.
Many , many places to conduct your affairs without hiding for being seen.
with few nosey exceptions ~ ofcoarse
A texas democrate is a republican everywhere else ~ so I've been told
we mind our own business ~ and don't look forward to minding our neighbors.
Land and taxes are cheap here compared to states offering the what we have to offer ~ great highways ~ warm climate ~ progressive in cultures and all art forms compaired to other places anyway. ~
Just a good location choise for privicy and business ~ is my guess.
~dar | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 7:55:58 AM | | I have a question for the men here, what if you got a divorce and your wife entered this "whatever" you want to call it place, then she gave your daughter to a 50 yr. old man to rape her in front of them all? | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:04:04 AM | 4/10/08 -- news
Now the police or FBI has found a bed in the chapel that is used for sex with these underage girls. This whole scene reads out of "The Satanist Bible" by Anton LeVay about 30 years ago . . . . .
E. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:48:52 AM | I have a question for the men here, what if you got a divorce and your wife entered this "whatever" you want to call it place, then she gave your daughter to a 50 yr. old man to rape her in front of them all?
^ ^ wishful-vindictive thinking ^ ^
There are tons of porn websites where teen daughters are having sex with men way over 50. Barely 18, Just 18, Sex for College books and tuition, to name a few. Cities across the nation teen girls are having sex with old men for a few bucks. These same girls are filmed and photograph for extra money.
There is nothing those divorced men can do, since a divorced man no longer have his daughter, the ex-wife does. Millions of wives across the nation need that divorce. Without it, the men have their children until she leaves. Once that is done, she exposes the children to a lot worse than a religious organization. Hence today's drugs, alcohol and sex lifestyle of children the past 40 years while mommy brings home many men home. Then they witch about their kids lack of discipline and morality scaring off a would be step-father who has lost his children to an ex.
The way it looks, there is no proof the compound was abusive at all. Unless those women at the CP Agency in Texas practice waterboarding on children. How they wish they can. Massachusetts and New York does. It appears they are failing in arriving at abusive evidence of the compound. A big law suit is surfacing against that Agency. Texas residence are about to pay through their ears. Now that's abusive. Especially the separating of the children from their parents. The stink of Nazism with these women that run Child Protection Agencies. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:53:05 AM | RSwindol wrote
I can totally agree with you point on abuse, but what I don't necessarily agree with at this time is that this church promoted child abuse. My Grandfather beat his wife and kids for years and happened to be Baptist. Does that mean that the Baptist church condoned his actions? Could it be that these acts of water boarding infants had nothing to do with their religion whatsoever, but mere acts of violence by mentally unstable men who happened to also be a member of that community? Was this religion telling the men that this is how they should raise their children?
But you see, it's not the church condoning this. The Latter Day Saints church wants to distance themselves as much as they can from the FLDS, and renounced polygamy in like 1904. This is a group of men tainting the teachings of that church to their own wishes.
Windslow wrote:
The way it looks, there is no proof the compound was abusive at all. Unless those women at the CP Agency in Texas practice waterboarding on children. How they wish they can. Massachusetts and New York does. It appears they are failing in arriving at abusive evidence of the compound. A big law suit is surfacing against that Agency. Texas residence are about to pay through their ears. Now that's abusive. Especially the separating of the children from their parents.
The women in protective custody do not want to talk....they think anyone they speak to will lead them directly to Satan. And they did locate the girl who placed the call. I saw her husband's picture on the news last night. As far as the rest of your post goes.....hogwash. It's clear what opinion you have of women, grouping them all in a herd of slutty, vindictive, bad mothers. Whatever pal. I hope your next date sees this post. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 11:57:18 AM | | Because, jmarquise, the more wives and children you have, the closer you get to God. It's called the Celestial Kingdom, and apparently it's a level of heaven we didn't know about. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 1:09:42 PM |
I have a question for the men here, what if you got a divorce and your wife entered this "whatever" you want to call it place, then she gave your daughter to a 50 yr. old man to rape her in front of them all?
every REAL man would say, "after the kid was gotten out, it would be fun to watch waco two, but i wouldn't wait for the atf" | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:02:12 PM |
I didn't say anything about religion. If you are saying that religion is a cult then that is different.
Any formal religeous veneration is a cult, simple as that. So when you say...
I think cultism is hardly a fashion.
...You are in turn saying "I think organized religion is hardly a fashion". The two statements are synonymous. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 8:05:43 PM | who's laws reign supreme? the law of the land,....or the law of the cults / sects?
I believe that is a good question. And may be the real issue.
You are in turn saying "I think organized religion is hardly a fashion". The two statements are synonymous.
This statement would be true if I agreed that a cult was exclusive to organized religion. Which I don't. The original statement I posted had nothing to do with a religious inference. However what you are suggesting by this statement is that a cult is exclusively applied toward organized religion. I think your premise is incorrect, which would then make the conclusion invalid. | |
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timj82
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Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 97 | |
| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 9:20:37 PM |
Now, tell me, aside from the Salvation Army, which actually does 'good'
when I was down on my luck and had to frequent a Salvation Army dinner once on a Saturday there was a Salvation Army religious service and afterwards they had a public meal. Well the lady who was in charge of the meal saw I hadn't attended the service and waited outside and she told me to wait at the end of the serving line. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:42:43 PM | The children and about 140 women left the compound voluntarily and are living in two makeshift shelters in San Angelo. The silly post about the women in protective custody and not wanting to talk since they think anyone they speak to will lead them directly to Satan is moot.
If the judge orders all the children to remain in state custody, the next big task will be finding them new homes compatible with their strong religious upbringing,
The state found beds on the top floor of the temple. They suspect that older men had sex with under-age girls from court documents.
They think the worse because they are mostly divorced middle-aged feminist in Child Protection agencies. Abusing good laws to protect children for some deranged vendetta against any religion and against men with all these accusations without evidence.
It's a fishing expedition. Authorities are trying to build a case. First with cadaver dogs and that failed. Not dead bodies found in that place. Hints, only hints about possible under-age marriage rites, but no answer to what had happened to the 16-year-old who called the authorities.
The man named in the arrest warrant as suspected of sexually abusing the girl who made the call, reported to his probation officer in Arizona last Friday and said he had never met the girl and had not been in Texas in more than 30 years. Until the authorities find the girl, they will not be able to determine whether she was referring to a different man who may live at the Texas ranch. They should determine that perhaps she's a liar and angry at someone and determine to bring down the whole religious community. Many 16 year old girls are vindictive when they don't get their way.
Because of that call and the raid, the state will have to show the children were in serious or immediate danger. If it can't, the children will have to be returned. To justify that action, state officials must prove the children were abused, neglected or in imminent danger. A move some experts call the largest child protection intervention in U.S. history, poses extraordinary legal and logistical challenges for state officials and others involved. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 3:41:26 AM | Why is it a 'silly post' and a moot point to say that these women are most likely not cooperating with authorities because they are terrified? The source here is women they're interviewing who have left compounds like this. These women say they are taught from a very young age to not trust anyone on the outside, because they will rip them from their families, all they've ever known, make them cut their hair and wear makeup and stand on a street corner and have sex with many strange men. Don't you think they'd be just a tad adverse to having a tell-all with a stranger after that's been drilled into their heads for generations?
And to say that the government or the child welfare workers are trying to 'make the worst' of it is just passing judgement. The authorities had an informant for the last 4 years that lived on the inside, but they had no grounds to go in until this 16 yr old called and reported abuse. They are not releasing any info on what the informant told the Sherrif, but they have been watching and waiting since then.
I don't really care what they do in Georgia. A young girl who was sold to the compound to marry at 14 yrs old a 48+ year old man is not consenting. And the beds they found in the temple were reported by the informant to be for jumping into immediately after the ceremony to consummate the 'marriage in God's eyes'. How can you say this is legal? How can you say this is consentual? How can anyone defend it at all????? | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 3:44:16 AM | YAWN>>>
More PC newscasting...
In Georgia, 16 is the age of consent..
In the Hispanic community (usually illegal aliens in the USA,or in Mexico and Latin America) 30 yr old men and above dating 15 and 16 year olds is common. They usually leer at every girl 12 and up. There was a story on the news in Atlanta about these men picking up their girlfriends from high school...
The govt does not want people to live in a different way. So, they can always claim "child abuse, woman abuse", etc, and the mainstream population will instantly have horrific images in their minds of women being raped and kidnapped, by mean old evil white men.
The media also uses this to gain interest in an otherwise boring story. | |
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