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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 5:26:43 AM |
Why is it a 'silly post' and a moot point to say that these women are most likely not cooperating with authorities because they are terrified?
Lucky for us... for the rest of the country... and for them individually... those investigators are (I'm sure) the best and most well trained available in the State of Texas. Whether the women talk or not, they are saying something by their actions... I'm sure these investigators are watching very, very closely and monitering their mental health among other things.
I have faith that relatively few of these young women will be returned to the compound.
Which is cause for celebration in my mind!!!
--Brandon | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 5:58:34 AM | I read about this story a few days ago. I come here and see everyons finds this bad to say the least. But I have one question?
What if they really believe this stuff?
I mean, we're on the outside looking in. Everyone is calling this abuse, which it is. But you're assuming these men are predatory, have some kind of hidden agenda to have sex with teens. What if they dont? Religion is a very powerful thing, and twists basic logic on it's head. In fact, religion doesn't use logic at all. Think about it, people believe a man came back from the dead, or a man managed to part a sea, or people used to live to be 300 years old. These things are a bit far fetched in the first place. Religion doesn't use logic, they believe the impossible as if it were scientific truth. So if religion is a place where logic is abandoned in the first place, what's so unbelieveable about people skewing their religion to the point where this happens.
What if there is no mens rea behind this, because this is their faith and they believe what they are doing is right? Strange. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 7:38:35 AM |
polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed Posted: 4/11/2008 7  34 AM I read about this story a few days ago. I come here and see everyons finds this bad to say the least. But I have one question? What if they really believe this stuff? I mean, we're on the outside looking in. Everyone is calling this abuse, which it is. But you're assuming these men are predatory, have some kind of hidden agenda to have sex with teens. What if they dont? Religion is a very powerful thing, and twists basic logic on it's head. In fact, religion doesn't use logic at all. Think about it, people believe a man came back from the dead, or a man managed to part a sea, or people used to live to be 300 years old. These things are a bit far fetched in the first place. Religion doesn't use logic, they believe the impossible as if it were scientific truth. So if religion is a place where logic is abandoned in the first place, what's so unbelieveable about people skewing their religion to the point where this happens. What if there is no mens rea behind this, because this is their faith and they believe what they are doing is right? Strange.
simply because there IS mens rea behind it.
of course, there are many of them that truly believe that it is about religion. max nix. they do not have a right to have a religion that is inherently evil. what you are advocating is that intelligent people allow sharia to be practiced here. there is no difference. just as fools are getting busted for refusing to take kids to the doctor and only praying for them, which i believe in by the way, you do not have a right to have a religion which causes harm to anyone.
nonethless, the irrefutable fact is that it has nothing to do with religion, and IS simply a haven for pedophiles and punks that like to beat women. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 8:21:47 AM |
What if they really believe this stuff?
I mean, we're on the outside looking in. Everyone is calling this abuse, which it is. But you're assuming these men are predatory, have some kind of hidden agenda to have sex with teens. What if they dont? Religion is a very powerful thing, and twists basic logic on it's head. In fact, religion doesn't use logic at all. Think about it, people believe a man came back from the dead, or a man managed to part a sea, or people used to live to be 300 years old. These things are a bit far fetched in the first place. Religion doesn't use logic, they believe the impossible as if it were scientific truth. So if religion is a place where logic is abandoned in the first place, what's so unbelieveable about people skewing their religion to the point where this happens.
What if there is no mens rea behind this, because this is their faith and they believe what they are doing is right? Strange
What if they really believe this stuff?????
irrellevant,...and I'll tell you why,...
ignorance of the law is no defence and they live in a country in which their behaviour is breaking the law,.....oh and BTW they do in fact know it by how vigillant they are about keeping their wom/children isolated from anything but what is in THEIR interests,...that would be the men's interests because the women/children's best interest is to them also irrellevant,....
and being a male child reared to this behaviour is IMO also child abuse,....but once a man is an adult he has to be aware of what he's doing and the impact it has on others,... | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 9:28:30 AM | simply because there IS mens rea behind it.
How do you know? Are you them? Can you read minds?
I'm not advacating nothing. I'm asking, what if they really believe this to be right? For example, those Westborogh people. The ones who think dead American soilders are good American soliders, the ones who hate gay people. Ya know it's one thing to commit a crime, or say ugly things just to piss someone off, or gain something. But what if you do something like that because you believe it as fact. No guilty mind behind it, no belief that it's wrong, just thinking it's normal as anything else. To me, it would be like...abortion.
I think I just answered my own question. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 10:10:58 AM | thanks for ignoring my response,...
so I say again,....I R R E L E V A N T !!!!!
and if you actually want to know why read my post above your response,.....fouthempire
These people are not legally insain so that's no excuse,...
they are well aware of the law of the land ,....
and the men folk that run these places can read,....
if your need to get laid by a custer of children depends on your convincing those children that you are doing right by them,....then you are still a pedofile in your country,...
in this country we have had our own share of these people and some are still cooling their overused loins in jail,.... | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 10:13:14 AM | well i agree with you fouthempire they really believe in whatever their religious believes are but then suicide bombers believes in killing infidels too & red neck believed in themselves as the best/chosen/greatest too & looked down on other nationalities as inferior, i also believe when Hitler was killing Jews he believed that killing Jew was a necessity, i also believe that those 19 hijackers killed themselves & thousands more because of their belief,
yes i believe that all these people did what they really believed in.
but
when an individuals/group/religion believes become threat to another person/child's safety/existence or may result in severe harm, then those beliefs are consider dangerous & they should be eliminate at any cost. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 10:28:11 AM | Unless these women return after nothing becomes of the state's so-called investigations, they will be persuaded by the so-called professionals to divorce. Thereby they can join another church and get themselves passive B types new husbands.
In their present religion only the males get many wives. There is something wrong with these women to begin with. They fall under perverts. Sharing their husbands with other women. Perverted like swingers and yet disguised as holy women. They don't even look and dress sexy and yet get away with bagging husbands.
How in the world these men get turned on with these women is beyond brainwashing. Women know the art of seduction with certain clothing and make-up. These women only use religion to snag their men. No tight jeans. No sexy dress. No wigs. No fake boobs. No sexy hair styles. Just religion and plain, unattractive appearances. They dress like great-grandmoms. Particularly the young girls. They almost look like men in drag, eww. I could understand if these girls look like the girls one sees at the malls but not these girls. These girls make fat chicks look hot. Let's face, even ugly girls know how to camouflage their appearance with make- up and sexy clothing.
The fact is that all religions pushes marriage to couples like some first prize to win on a game show. Churches all over the country are pushing marriage as a sanctified nirvana. The victims here are the males. They have been brainwashed into marrying not one but to have two and three wives at the same time. In the outside we can have as many wives, not at the same time, after divorce. Unless a guy is into having affairs or keeping a mistress here and there. Some wives have their affairs themselves.
Women in today's world does get to have many husbands too. Marriage followed by divorce and another marriage and another divorce and another husband. Some just live with one man after another because the new guy in her life refuses to commit to them. I wonder why?
This whacky religion deserves the grand trophy in fooling men to marry multiple women. Because those who bite into "lord and master"routine being peddled by churchgoing predatory females, being more deluded than most, will find their scrotum stretchings twice as miserable in family (divorce) court. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 11:23:01 AM | "And they did locate the girl who placed the call."
SimmahDahnNah, I have noted in your postings you on occasion seem to like to run with whatever you are reading as the media's gospel truth and then will type it in a post as such. I won'r go back and quote all the times you have did this but would you like to show proof of the statement you made I quoted of your's above? I have as yet not read where they have found the person that goes with the phone call. Below is a quote from the AP that is 17 hours old....
"Officials still have not identified the 16-year-old girl among the children and the 139 women being held at two sites in Texas."
And for all those that think there was a compound of old geezers running around sticking it to any little girl they could choose to do it to as it is heavily presumed here...the following is from the sherif in a statement made 17 hours ago...
"Doran said it was not until after the raid began that he learned that the sect was, in fact, marrying off underage girls at the compound and had a bed in its soaring limestone temple where the girls were required to immediately consummate their marriages."
I think that one of the things that many are not aware of is that what these old geezers have been doing through the act of their marriages that most everyone here are calling child rapists, pervs, pedo's, etc., many of your own male ancestors deserve the same exact titles. So realize (though I believe what they have done is wrong for our day and time) according to the names your attaching to these men in the same breath your attaching them to your ancestor lineages of child rapists, old male pervs and pedos who did the same thing through their marriages to young teenage girls who were mostly forced to marry your male perverted ancestors in their time periods where an older guy marrying a young teenage girl was a common/accepted act.
Name calling does nothing. But a bit of understanding their thought trains of illogical thinking....that gains one knowledge. What they did was wrong, plain and simple. But before you start calling names you better look into your past first. Somewhere in your past you are the product of what your calling an act of perversion.
These guys in this religion were mostly old and wanted (because of their docternal teachings) to have as many kids as possible. They believed in polygamy and polygamy was their way of life even if it was against the law. These guys also had older wives they had sex with. If your a pedo, you don't have sex with older women. So that flys in the face of all the talk that all we are dealing with is a bunch of child raping pedos.
For all those needing a bit of info about the early Mormon church that this polygamist religion is copying, they aren't doing it because it gives them sex rights to a young girl. The object of polygamy in the early church was to help that early church grow from within as well as it was growing from converts. That way they could have kids to raise up within the doctrines of the church as it did happen. And those old guys then were like these old guys now, having sex with all their wives and not just a single age group. Having five wives and only having sex with the youngest defeats the purpose of the law of polygamy.
I will state again, I like to understand. As in this thread it has been proved more then once many love name calling and being a rumormonger. It is wrong and illigal to be a polygamist in our era. It is wrong and illigal to have sex with a minor. | |
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timj82
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Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 110 | |
| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 11:31:02 AM | nobody can tell me the Morman Church doesn't want to rule the USA which I believe it actually does want to.
When the Morman Church does take control, polygamy will be legal in the USA, all to produce lots and lots of babies to colonize the rest of the world | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 11:41:40 AM | marita_b, you're missing the point.
Their intent behind their actions is wholly relevant. Intention is everything. Intent can
change an accident to straight up murder. Their intent is what I'm asking about. What it appears that is that everyone here is looking at them though the eyes of our society, and judging through such. What I'm wondering is what they see.
What this comes down to is something peculiar, a person committing a crime without a guilty mind. Suicide bombers a good example. But doesn’t intent (their ideals) change the nature of the beast? It doesn't make it any more right, but this isn't some sex offender stalking playgrounds. An entire society was set up; it seems to be a way of life! Of course it's twisted, but these people seem to believe it as it's their religion. And that's my point, what do they see? You can substitute this for Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, The Branch Davidians, Westborough Baptist church. And even to it's logical conclusion, Christianity as a whole. Of course mainstream religion never strays that far, but the concept of altering facts to see a twisted perspective is what I'm talking about. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 11:53:33 AM | I can't believe this is happening in the USA....anywhere else and its like....those men are controlling and we American women won't take no bull.....yet time and again this happens.....why?
I believe it was a 16 year old girl married to a 50 year old.....who made the call.
PS....I say good on the 16 year old for being brave enough but shame on the rest of those men and women too cowardly to protect themselves or their children. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:06:52 PM |
You know, I cannot believe some of the posts I'm reading here. Not exactly a think tank, this place, is it. No, lol, it is not.
I think we can all agree that pedophilia is about as creepy, damaging and deviant a crime as is out there. Some might also be able to agree that it is a mental illness.
But it is not as simple as going out and rounding the adults up, locking them down and throwing away the key. The authorities have inconvenient things like probable cause, due process, innocence until proven guilty and freedom of religion to contend with. The authorities need to have complaints to act on, evidence of wrong doing to get a conviction, and must prove without reasonable doubt that the offences actually took place. Very hard to do in an open society, let alone a closed one like the FLDS. Very hard to do, if no victims or witnesses come forward.
Further, they need to have the laws in place to begin with. If it is legal to have consensual sex with a fourteen year old girl (The law in Canada) and consent is given, there has (technically) been no crime committed.
So the 'law of the land' says it is okay.
Why do they consent?
They probably consent because since birth, they have been inculcated with religious scripture, dogma and doctrine leading them to believe it is what God wants for them. If not since birth, they still have the right to practise the religion of their choice. As do we all. People believe all sorts of crazy things.
It seems more extreme to the general population, but it is otherwise no different than Lutheran, Buddhist, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Agnostic or Mennonite (etc.) parents demanding and exercising their right to practise their religion and raise their kids as they see fit. For better or worse.
The government has to be very careful about sticking their nose into people's religions, or by precedent - any religion immediately becomes fair game to public, and therefore legal, scrutiny. When that happens, all minority religions, and even religion itself, are in danger of being made illegal or swept aside by the majority. Not many religious people want that.
Sharia law is a non starter in North America, because among other things - stoning, beating and cutting someone's hand off is clearly against the law. Until secluded religious communities are mandated as illegal, until a secular education of children is a legal requirement and until creepy old guys having sex with teen girls is actually illegal, the status quo, unfortunately, will likely prevail.
Tragic. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:07:41 PM |
nobody can tell me the Morman Church doesn't want to rule the USA which I believe it actually does want to.
When the Morman Church does take control, polygamy will be legal in the USA
timj82
Go ahead and live your life in fear of the idea/conspiracy that the Mormon Church wants to take over the USA.
However, to even try to connect the FLDS and the LDS together in inaccurate.
To say that the Mormon Church condones or practices polygamy is completely inaccurate.
Another inaccurate statement of yours:
nobody can tell me
Well I just did... you can take it or leave it. You'll most likely leave it... no sweat off my back
However, to accuse my LDS friends of being connected to the abomination that is the FLDS is insulting and untrue.
--Brandon | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:31:48 PM | I wonder if a lot of women complaining about this news story are simply jealous.
How do we know whom is happier? The women in the cult? Or the average American woman?
Perhaps the women in the cult are spiritually free. Which makes them happy. How do you know? Average "free" women might have 2 jobs, kids to raise, debt, be on prozac, paxil, drink, smoke, and rarely or never have sex...
The idea that the men formed this cult to sleep with young girls is a joke.. It would be easy for them to buy a plane ticket to Thailand, South America, and they could have a different young girl every day of the week. But maybe those are your baptist and catholic boyfriends doing that.
And the other poster is right. Somewhere along the line, I am sure an older guy married a teenager in our lineage. So what?
16 is the age of consent in Georgia. I think more than helf of American kids had sex by the age of 16. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:37:59 PM | Their intent behind their actions is wholly relevant. Intention is everything. Intent can change an accident to straight up murder. Their intent is what I'm asking about. What it appears that is that everyone here is looking at them though the eyes of our society, and judging through such. What I'm wondering is what they see. yes and no,....yes during sentencing,....and no in as much as the law that was broken (PS suicide bomber is a very bad example only in as much their very crime leave no one to charge,....if they do their job right,.....  sorry couldn't resist) I wonder if a lot of women complaining about this news story are simply jealous. How do we know whom is happier? The women in the cult? Or the average American woman?
how right you are,.....after all it is widely known that women are much happier worked from sun up to sun down, raising 20 or 30 children and taking time now and then to lift their skirts and bend over a table when their hubbies need a scratching post,....
What planet are you from to even ask such a silly question?
BTW,...those women are never asked ANYTHING,...they are told what when how much and for how long,.....nothing else period,....
to me that's slavery,....so do you really think the slaves were happier, when they were told pretty much the same? and who were punished sometimes with a whip for disobeying,....that would be both the slaves of yesterday and those women of today,...
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:40:13 PM |
wonder if a lot of women complaining about this news story are simply jealous.
How do we know whom is happier? The women in the cult? Or the average American woman?
Perhaps the women in the cult are spiritually free. Which makes them happy. How do you know? Average "free" women might have 2 jobs, kids to raise, debt, be on prozac, paxil, drink, smoke, and rarely or never have sex...
The idea that the men formed this cult to sleep with young girls is a joke.. It would be easy for them to buy a plane ticket to Thailand, South America, and they could have a different young girl every day of the week. But maybe those are your baptist and catholic boyfriends doing that.
And the other poster is right. Somewhere along the line, I am sure an older guy married a teenager in our lineage. So what?
16 is the age of consent in Georgia. I think more than helf of American kids had sex by the age of 16.
Very good!
I've often thought that modern popular PC culture in America is more of a wacky "cult" than the wacky "cults" the people cry out in shock against . | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:52:00 PM | lol...
And how do you know what their life is like...??? Were you in one of those cults before? Or have friends in that cult? Raising 20 or 30 children ? What?
Actually they might have a huge community of friends, love, giving, sharing, and spiritual freedom. Maybe they prefer that than sitting on POF every night alone, emailing guys who only want to use women for sex then leave, which seems to be a huge complaint on here amongst women... Maybe they think that is strange.. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 1:08:15 PM |
lol...
And how do you know what their life is like...??? Were you in one of those cults before? Or have friends in that cult? Raising 20 or 30 children ? What?
Actually they might have a huge community of friends, love, giving, sharing, and spiritual freedom. Maybe they prefer that than sitting on POF every night alone, emailing guys who only want to use women for sex then leave, which seems to be a huge complaint on here amongst women... Maybe they think that is strange..
What kids? Having kids ?
Kids are such a nuisance . You talk about repressive!
Good thing these women have been "liberated" and now they can join back into to the mainstream fold "cult" | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/11/2008 2:55:40 PM | lol Exactly...
Crazy person cult:
Raising children OMG.. What are they doing to those poor women?? ( The most important thing women are supposed to do as humans.. Have children, and raise them.
Mainstream normal female life:
Well, I worked all day, ate McDonalds, made my car payment, house payment, credit card payment, sent in my taxes, and it is time to go to bed alone, after 2 hours staring at the internet, then 2 hours of tv. I am still 45 pounds overweight, and just took my Prozac.I think I might need to switch to paxil. I have to do more work this weekend.. I am looking forward to my one week vacation 2 months from now. Maybe I can fix up the house! Wow, my freedom is great! | |
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| Salvation Army
Posted: 4/11/2008 3:11:04 PM | Hi Tim! Yeah, some of their people have their human faults, too, but she fed you, didn't she? And for free, too!
In Sept. 1954, I was at the Holland Marsh, while we pulled pregnant women, kids and dogs off roof-tops, due to Hurricane Hazel. By the spot where we put these wet, bedraggled folks ashore, the Red Cross set up a truck, and sold coffee, at 25 cents a cup, and blankets, for a signed chit, to the hurricane victims. Down the road slightly, was the Salvation Army, who GAVE the people blankets, and GAVE them coffee, and didn't charge anything, and didn't want a chit for future payment.
I've never forgotten that. There wasn't any sign of the Catholics, Baptists, etc. etc. or any government agency, either! you figure it out.
The lady shouldn't have embarassed you, but it sure wasn't policy! | |
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| Salvation Army
Posted: 4/11/2008 4:22:01 PM | "And they did locate the girl who placed the call."
SimmahDahnNah, I have noted in your postings you on occasion seem to like to run with whatever you are reading as the media's gospel truth and then will type it in a post as such.
I had thought since they found the man this girl was allegedly abused by and/or married to, that they had found the girl. I apologize for that misstatement. I don't know how they could have identified a man with ties to someone if they can't identify the 'someone'.
However, what I 'run with' are the words I am hearing from the mouths of the women who have previously lived in places like this. They are saying these things in interviews. So it's not like the media is making this up. If the women are making it up, that's one thing, but there are too many of them saying the same things to make it just a few disgruntled ex-communicated members. So run with that. | |
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| Salvation Army
Posted: 4/11/2008 5:25:26 PM |
well i agree with you fouthempire they really believe in whatever their religious believes are but then suicide bombers believes in killing infidels too & red neck believed in themselves as the best/chosen/greatest too & looked down on other nationalities as inferior, i also believe when Hitler was killing Jews he believed that killing Jew was a necessity, i also believe that those 19 hijackers killed themselves & thousands more because of their belief,
That hit the nail on the head right there. And these people do know they're breaking the laws of society. | |
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| Salvation Army
Posted: 4/11/2008 6:37:04 PM | lol.. Breaking the laws of society??? So?
What about laws that said white women should not marry black men? I am just saying, just because a law is in effect, does not make it right by everyones standards..
Anyway, the age of consent is 16 in GA. In some countries it is 14.
And what is wrong with polygamy.. Many of you seem to be in favor of 2 men getting married, which in my opinion is far more ridiculous.. | |
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