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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/19/2008 1:15:12 PM |
Texas
• If you are 14 to 17 years of age, you will need to show your birth certificate or some license, certificate or document issued by this state or another state, the U.S. or a foreign government.(Drivers license, military ID, passport or baptismal).
• Both parties must be 18 years or older,(14-17 requires parental consent).
• Both parties must provide their social security number or state they have one.
• Both parties must provide all information as required on the application and as requested by the clerk.
• Both parties must take the oath printed on the application and sign the application in the presence of the clerk
that's old. texas recently made it permissable to get married with parental consent at 16. you still have to be 18 without it | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/19/2008 1:20:42 PM |
These men are pedophiles hiding behind religion to justify it and protect it.
It's statements like that and the people who make such claims having no proof what so ever who represent the greatest danger to society.
That's sounds so like Nazi mentality!
you know, if you woke up, your hallucinations might end. there is none so blind as he who will not see. it is really dumb to claim that there is no sun, even when it is night.
reality actually isn't that difficult to grasp. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/19/2008 2:36:58 PM |
My guess is that out of the whole community there was one or possibly two woman that became pregnant at 13
A 13 yr. old is not a woman. She is barely more than a child who should just be learning how to use a sanitary napkin, not how to nurse a baby.
Am I the only one that thinks it's more than unusual for teenaged girls not to know their age? Or that DNA has to be performed because no one seems to know which kids belong to whom? Or that in a so-called protected religious compound, at least three 16 yr. old girls already have one or more children and are pregnant again? Or that if a male displeases an elder, he is sent away from the compound and his wife and children are "assigned" like cattle to another male?
When situations are straight up and honest, they don't have to be hidden behind walls and lies. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/19/2008 2:47:06 PM | Exactly. What religious group have you ever heard of who has not wanted to share what they were doing and why they were doing it?
http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/national/2008/04/19/Trouble.on.the.Prairie/
<div class="quote">The sect's members, meanwhile, shunned nearly all contact with outsiders, including the media, insisting they wanted to be left alone to practice their religious beliefs in peace. The women didn't shop in local stores, the children were home schooled on the ranch.
That article starts out by saying the man who purchased the land told the landowners he wanted to purchase it for a hunting ranch. Good article, and it does show both sides. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/19/2008 7:03:41 PM |
iamjumbo
you know, if you woke up, your hallucinations might end. there is none so blind as he who will not see. it is really dumb to claim that there is no sun, even when it is night.
reality actually isn't that difficult to grasp.
That's your opinion and your entitled to one. Nevertheless, at least I'm willing to consider all possibilities and not pass judgement on a group of individuals it has yet to be proven did anything wrong.
If you care to notice there is several people on here who are asking the same questions and being careful to not listen to State sponsored propaganda... It's you that are living in a dream world thinking it's perfectly alright to send in armies to raid people's homes on trumped up charges.
So, Yes I stick with the term it's "Nazi mentality" for people that agree with such tactics. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:33:37 AM | For those of you who believe the people of this community is getting what they deserve, I have a few questions for you:
1. If this community is so twisted and pedophilia is such a common occurrence, why would it take an informant 4 years to come up with evidence?
2. Why would the authorities take so much stake in a phone call that was made out of Colorado?
3. Are the crimes of a few worth the destruction of 600 lives?
4. If an incident like this happened in your community how would you feel having your children taken away for the crimes committed by someone up the road from you?
(the reason I ask this is because I find it hard to believe that everyone in this community was breaking the law. I would venture to say that it was the vast minority who was involved in these acts.)
5. Where are all of the pregnant teens that they are talking about? They are saying now that there are at least five. But that doesn't mean that all 5 of them are under the legal age of consent or even that they were made pregnant by a 50-year-old.
6. If every adult male in the compound was a suspected child molester, then would it not have been easier to seize them and leave the children with their mothers? Yes, they would be tormented, but not nearly as much as to be stripped away from both parents and places into a strange world.
7. What about the snake handling religion where people bring rattle snakes into the church and encourage people to dance around with them while drinking strychnine? Are they not putting children in imminent danger? Should everyone in these churches not have their kids stripped away from them also? If I had the choice, I would rather my 16-year-old become pregnant than get bit by a rattlesnake.
*For those of you who are not aware of this religion, these are just a few youtube videos made from these churches.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=thk20h1lmVg&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ObhvOeNCKhs&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wpVffsJ0OhA (note the they have to use subtitles in this one so that you know exactly what these red necks are saying)
This entire FLDS incident reminds me of the Rodney King beating. It's nothing more than an abuse of power on the part of the authorities. The "shoot first, shoot some more, and then try to ask a few questions in the end" tactic isn't cool. What DID happen to due process? | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/20/2008 7:09:42 AM | You are spot on Pazoozo. I actually found it very sad that not even the children themselves could identity their parents.
Young teenagers outside these compounds get pregnant all the time, but in most cases they don't get impregnated by men twice and sometimes 3x their age, also they are not forced into marriages. Are any of these young women even allowed to marry young men?.
What i find very hypocritical however, is that everyone in law enforcement and the population in general knew this was going on, yet are now acting as though this is something they have never seen before. As for the women whose children have been taken away, i feel sorry for them, noone can deny they are victims too, but they share the blame for allowing their children to be abused; women who escaped this lifestyle, did so to protect their children...as I see it, the real victims are the children. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/20/2008 8:33:05 AM | IAmJumbo wrote with regard to the age of consent to marry in Texas:
that's old. texas recently made it permissable to get married with parental consent at 16. you still have to be 18 without it
I supplied a current source that can be verified, usmarriagelaws.com, to show not only the age of consent but also those exceptions to that age and the requirements needed to meet the laws of Texas. Can you provide something that supports your information? Also, if the law was just changed as you claim then the law would apply from the date it was passed and not retroactively so it would not apply to past events.
A 13 yr. old is not a woman. She is barely more than a child who should just be learning how to use a sanitary napkin, not how to nurse a baby.
Am I the only one that thinks it's more than unusual for teenaged girls not to know their age? Or that DNA has to be performed because no one seems to know which kids belong to whom? Or that in a so-called protected religious compound, at least three 16 yr. old girls already have one or more children and are pregnant again? Or that if a male displeases an elder, he is sent away from the compound and his wife and children are "assigned" like cattle to another male?
When situations are straight up and honest, they don't have to be hidden behind walls and lies.
I personally don’t think that people should ever marry before the age of 25. However. if a female can breed, she is technically a woman. The age of consent right across the border in Mexico is the tender age of 12.
When exactly did it become any of your business to dictate to other people their religious beliefs and how much of it they want to make public?
The main argument that I am so concerned about has nothing to do with 13 year olds becoming wed or pregnant. You can find vast numbers of underage pregnant girls all over the country like that. I would not be upset at all if the people targeted were those that you have concerns about. The real concern is that Texas used a bogus phone call to issue an illegal search warrant that by all legal standards overreached what is allowed by the constitution. That search warrant was used to incarcerate not only those children born of teens but all of the children. Can’t you see the problem in incarcerating innocent people while you figure out if any law has been broken? Furthermore, the legally married mothers married at a legal age have been blocked from seeing or communicating with their own minor children for more that 2 weeks now. The vast majority of these women were married at or above the legal age in Texas and it is these innocent people that care deeply about. I could care less about their religion or about what their neighbors have done that may be wrong.
Many of you are talking about the few exceptions in this community as to why what was done in Texas is right and just. If the police and legal system had confined what they did to these few people alone then there would be little argument from anyone. However, that is not what happened there nor is this type of action confined just to Texas alone. There is a new trend here in the States to ignore the constitutional rights of the innocent. I am not a member of this Christian denomination but as a Christian and as an American who strongly believes in our constitutional republic my heart goes out for the majority of innocent people who have had their lives and families torn apart and that are being demonized by the media.
Again, I am not at all defending the breeding of young children but the blanket approach that removed the children of legally married men and women and the retention of those children and the removal of any parental rights to see or communicate with those children. I have a big problem with a search warrant being issued based on a bogus phone call. I am also disturbed by the primary evidence provided by Texas coming from a cult psychiatrist that had no first hand knowledge of anything in the community in question and who has never met any of the people in question or has he even been to that community in his life. I see this as an attack on not only their constitutional rights but of mine and of yours too. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/20/2008 9:17:15 AM |
Many of you are talking about the few exceptions in this community as to why what was done in Texas is right and just.
This is my argument exactly. Unless one can prove that everyone and not just a few were involved in these illegal acts, then the authorities have a lot of explaining to do in my opinion. They cannot punish everyone on the ASSUMPTION that everyone is to blame.
To establish justice, one first needs facts, not hearsay or assumptions. The fifth amendment reads:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.
I would like to point out "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". I think this little infraction would certainly constitute as deprivation of liberty.
The fourteenth amendment similarly reads:
nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
If the state is violating someone's constitutional right, then they are also denying them equal protection of the laws.
As I have pointed out before, I am not saying that none of these individuals have broken the law. But the fact is, by the authorities not fallowing appropriate channels and procedures, not only have they potentially violated the rights of the innocent, but they have also given the truly guilty parties the chance to get off scott free by means of technicalities. This is very similar to what happened in the OJ scandal. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:36:40 PM | There are a couple of people bringing up good points, there's an awful lot of rumormongering and some downright unbelievable misstatements and misbeliefs that leave me laughing at their absurdity.
I have been extremely upset (and I mean UPset!!) over all of this for several reasons:
1. If in your neighborhoods a sexual offence takes place, the offender is hauled away. The entire neighborhood is not rounded up and mothers separated from their children.
Can you imagine the outcry should someone go into an African village and tear all of the children from their mothers? Or into any community, rural or urban, and take all the children away from mothers who weren't legally married to the children’s' fathers? Can you even begin to imagine the outcry, and the press and the movies and the fund raising... ? When was the last time your whole neighborhood was robbed of all of its children because one of your neighbors (or even one of your own family members) molested a child? Here in Northern California 10 or 12 day cares were shut down this week alone due to registered sexual offenders either working or living on the premises. Did all of the children in those neighborhoods get taken from their homes and parents?? NO they did not. For heaven's sakes people, they took the children away from their mothers. The emotional scars that will be left in these children will never heal.
2. Everything is alleged--alleged!! I wouldn't want some of you on any jury I needed--you've already tried and convicted everyone in the community, and heaven help us, let's not wait for any facts that might mess up our pre-conceived notions.
3. The State of Texas and in particular El Dorado County are completely overwhelmed. This whole thing is botched. I think many of the decision makers there felt as do many of you whose posts I've read, that the women were being force, were victims, were weak and wouldn't fight back at what the government has done to them. I for one am glad they are fighting back and not taking this meekly. What I can't figure out is why anyone would support the way these authorities have handled this case or a woman’s right to choose but only if she chooses the way they want her to.
4. I think the first point has me the most upset, but it vies with this one: what on earth would posses anyone reading or writing here to expect this can't happen to you if someone gets an idea they don't like the way you are doing something or other? Forget the quasi moral issues many of you are hung up on--think about the abuse of civil rights and realise this happens all too often in this country.
5. Anyone else can cohabit, get pregnant out of wedlock (anyone pay attention to Hollywood or your local high school these days??), watch smut, swear like stevedores, lie, and cheat and it's acceptable, and they feel smugly superior to these women who are living in committed relationships which are formal, if not legal? And these women who live a modest, non-secular life are morally wrong? I'm not too sure there's a legal leg to stand on. If other people can cohabit, why can't these folks?
Something is way out of balance in how we see things.
I have to say that one of the reasons I am so impassioned about all of this is that I lived in Waco, Texas and worked 35 miles away in a small town with the Koresh compound between the two. I don't think any of us who could see that compound burning were unchanged. The shock that our government could and would do something like that has left permanent suspicion when abuse of power takes place on any level.
If the El Dorado authorities have a case, If there is a case of molestation, the authorities should go get the molester, not the entire community. They should handle it far differently than they are doing.
I think everyone needs to take a sobering look at how this is being handled no matter how you feel about any alleged activities. When the civil rights of one class of people are so shockingly violated, the civil rights of all of us are at risk. No one should be feeling all that smug in how they see any of this. If I knew how I could help these women, I would do it even if it meant putting myself in jeopardy. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/21/2008 12:30:14 PM | | Where are the Texas rangers when WE need them? It's time to raid the "projects" here in my town. They have all manner of crime, sexual immorality, child abuse, and 13 year olds getting pregnant on a regular basis. They are obviously a religious cult too. They call each other brothers and sisters all the time, only they pronounce it as bros and sistahs. Maybe we can get that impostor from Colorado to make some calls for us ... after all, none of our calls to the authorities has gotten a single one of them rounded up so far. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/21/2008 1:09:56 PM |
FYI
There are Canadian Nationals and their Children involved.
Apparently when Warren Jeffs was on the run, he made the families in the various compounds (US and Canada) switch kids. Imagine that. Also, if one of the men leaves the group, they "re-assign" his women and their children to a new man. I am assuming this is why they need to do DNA testing to get the mess sorted out. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:52:40 PM | .
They have found "Sarah Barlow"........
I wonder if they will do DNA? She is Black and 33 years old.
Will locating her help the case against all these criminal, perverts????
Texas ...... Bill of Rights.... Sure....
KKTV Colo/Spgs CO
Court documents released Wednesday detail a history of alleged false reporting by the Colorado Springs woman named as a person of interest in the Texas polygamist compound raid.
The details came from the Arrest Affadavit for 33-year-old Rozita Swinton in connection with a Colorado Springs case back in February. At that time, Springs police got several calls from a woman claiming to be injured and trapped in a basement. They now believe those calls came from Swinton.
According to the affadavit, Swinton reportedly had a history of making claims of sexual abuse to Colorado Springs Police, TESSA, and counselors at Liberty, Sierra and Rampart High Schools using different names. It also details calls made to out-of-state organizations.
In many calls, Swinton allegedly claimed to be "Dana Anderson". At one point, "Dana" said she was being sexually abused by her New Life Church Youth Pastor. Police later determined it was a false report.
In February 2007, someone claiming to be a 14-year-old girl named "April" from Colorado Springs reportedly started calling a shelter in Washington state. A representative from that organization contacted Springs Police. A voice comparison test later confirmed "Dana" and "April" were the same caller.
In February 2008, Colorado Springs police were sent to investigate reports of a 4-year-old trapped in a basement in the area of 8220 Candon Drive. This time, the alleged victim called herself "Jennifer". The caller claimed to be locked in a basement because she had misbehaved. The woman who "Dana" had been calling at TESSA contacted police to tell them she believed "Jennifer" to be the same person.
The next day "Dana" called her contact at TESSA to tell her about being drugged and trapped in the basement. It was during that call "Dana" claimed she and "Rozita" shared the same body, but it was "Dana's" job to protect "Rozita".
It was from that call on February 29th, 2008 that authorities were able to start tracing the multiple phone callers to one woman, Rozita Swinton.
The affidavit goes on to detail how Swinton was linked to calls made by a reported "Sarah Barlow" who claimed to be living inside the polygamist compound in Eldorado, Texas. The caller alleged she was 16-years-old and had an 8 month old infant by her "husband," who she identified as a 49-year-old man.
The calls were reported to the Texas Rangers, and are believed to have led to the raid of the polygamist compound.
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 7:00:22 AM |
The calls were reported to the Texas Rangers, and are believed to have led to the raid of the polygamist compound.
So is that common practice of Texas authorities to use hearsay evidence to justify mobilizing an army to invade people's homes? | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 2:51:24 PM |
So is that common practice of Texas authorities to use hearsay evidence to justify mobilizing an army to invade people's homes?
It would seem so from what we can see...but somehow I doubt it. I would hope that Texas learned at least a little something from Waco...but they are not talking about the evidence they've been gathering for all this time, so it seems on the surface like a fascist police state, but the truth will all come out one day, one side or the other. It always does. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:24:38 PM | I noticed the story left out the part about poor Sarah being a Registered Obama Democratic delegate.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=222972&Disp=2 | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:35:26 PM |
I noticed the story left out the part about poor Sarah being a Registered Obama Democratic delegate.
What does that have to do with what she did? All Obama delegates are psychos? | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:58:12 PM |
All Obama delegates are psychos?
Not all, just some, not to mention his preacher and then there's his good buddy Bill Ayers.
But it does make me wonder what kind of people he surrounds himself with.
Ok, ok, back on topic.
It seems so many people have already convicted this sect of horrible crimes.
Now we find out, it was all caused by someone that was never even there.
No crimes have been proven, yet the kids are still gone from their parents and will continue to be put through hell all becuase of some whacko.
Guess the polititians need the media boost. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:01:13 PM | They will be kept separate from their parents because of the evidence that there was sex with minors going on...don't you think? If they found out this phone call was bogus, and had no other evidence to keep these kids, don't you think they'd have returned them by now? I'm not saying the way it went down is right, but they wouldn't put all those kids in foster homes without some evidence of wrongdoing.
They found out 25 of the girls they had either were already mothers or are currently pregnant, all under 18. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:12:35 PM |
Officials would not say how old the mothers were beyond the fact all are believed to be under 18.
Could the be 16? 17?
This happens everyday across the world.
Go to any large Jr. High and you'll find pregnant 8th graders.
Is the goverment rushing in to save these innocent babies?
Atleast these "babies daddy's" are there to support and raise their kids.
I think the whole issue here is they do what they think is right without relying on the goverment for anything.
Although I don't believe what this sect believes, I respect their right to believe what they want.
Now these kids have been ripped from the only world they have ever known and thrown into an alien world.
How is that good for them? | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:14:56 PM | | It's sad all around. And they do depend on the government, sorry to inform, but most of these women collect welfare and food stamps because technically they are single mothers. And how many high school pregnant girls are impregnated by 50 year old men that someone else chose for them? | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:44:33 PM |
They will be kept separate from their parents because of the evidence that there was sex with minors going on...don't you think? If they found out this phone call was bogus, and had no other evidence to keep these kids, don't you think they'd have returned them by now? I'm not saying the way it went down is right, but they wouldn't put all those kids in foster homes without some evidence of wrongdoing.
Actually, Child Protective Services are above the law and they do not need any evidence. Suspicion is all they need. This is sad but very true.
I do not want to get into a long personal story of one of my friends, but her adopted kids (11 & 12) were in a dispute on the playground with older kids that were going to really hurt them. She called the police to step into the situation. Well, the next day Child Protective Services was out there looking at her kids because it was reported that she was repeatedly pushing them down long flights of stairs. The call was obviously in retaliation from the events the day before. Even though the kids did not have any scratches or bruises whatsoever, this woman has been going through absolute hell for a year now.
I personally would like to see the judge that issued the search warrant based on a bogus phone call removed from the bench and disbarred. I'd like to see the people in Child Protective Services that removed unharmed children from good parents tried on charges of kidnapping and false imprisonment. Why on earth 40 nursing babies are still not with their mothers after more than 3 weeks is tearing my heart out. Even worse are all of those Americans that see no problem with any of this. | |
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| polygamist compound in texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:58:15 PM |
sometimes I think religion was invented to control women.
Just sometimes?
Millions of women burned at the stake as witches? Outlawing birth control? Forcing people to stay in marriage? Where do I stop. You better believe it baby.
Not just women, men also, although generally weighted heavily in their favour. Religion or most orders appears to be about power and control over societies and we should feel strongly about separation of Religion and State. | |
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| polygamist compound in Texas - 200 people removed
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:07:05 PM |
Actually, Child Protective Services are above the law and they do not need any evidence. Suspicion is all they need. This is sad but very true.
I know this only too well, I almost lost my son to them because of a birthmark.
They swore it was a bruise and refused to look at the same mark my father and all my brothers have.
Luckily, one of the cops that came with them wanted to see and talked them out of taking my son.
Someone gets mad at you, one phone call and your world is upside down. | |
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