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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/7/2008 3:42:37 PM |
So you're saying that because he's only doing such things to his own people, and not to us, that we had no business going over there to stop him?
I think most people around the world think you guys should have minded your own business when it came to Iraq. Invading a sovereign nation that was not a threat to you tends to make people cynical on you motives. I guess you could have a leg to stand on if you did the same for other countries that are led by despots, but you don’t. (yeah yeah we know the US version that you alone freed the world when you finally stepped up to the plate in WWII.)
And yes, if we see atrocities happening ANYWHERE in the world, we will beat up the bullies. That's what we do.
Horseshit you do. Is this what they teach you guys in school? Did they forget to mention how many of the “bullies” you help put in power in the first place? Who’s next on the “beat up the bullies” list?
Look at it this simple way, if your family or property were hurt or damaged by someone would you go around you neighborhood, city or state soliciting help to defend yourself or would you just defend yourself?
No one says you shouldn’t defend yourself, but perhaps it might be wise to go after the people that wronged you rather than people that had nothing to do with damaging your property.
Funny how you foreign liberals always say that, but never seem to be able to cite a single instance of us being the bullies when there wasn't already a bully there.
I’m no liberal (but I am foreign, thanks Mom and Dad!), but I’ll throw a few countries for you to consider. What or who gave you the right to meddle in any of the following countries internal affairs?
Chile, Argentina, Indonesia, Guatemala, Iran, Egypt, Iraq, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Bolivia, Angola, Zaire, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Tunisia, Algeria, Jordan, Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Honduras, El Salvador, Nepal, Cuba, Brazil, Uzbekistan.
Lets address why all these APPARENT (according to the OP) extremely mentally challenged people (they gotta be retarded to want to come to the USA right? At least according to the OP? It's the worst place on earth to be! according to the OP) are doing anything they can to gain access to citizenship rights
Immigration to the USA and why people may want to move there is a totally different subject than what the OP posted. It’s still a land of great opportunity for immigrants; I don’t think anyone disputes that.
The times sure have changed for the USA. Once revered and looked up to, now loathed and rightfully feared by many.
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:21:44 PM | Wait a minute, you're saying that it's America's fault, and that the Muslim extremists have been destroying people and their beliefs of liberty only since WWII???
And you're a university student? Having trouble with your history lessons are ya?
Muslim extremists have been killing people and invading nations since the 8th century, simply because the Muslims consider anyone who doesn't take up Islam as their religion are their sworn enemies, and must be destroyed. I just saw a show on the tube last night about how the Muslims invaded India and destroyed many Kamasutra temples, simply because there where sexual carvings in the stone. Don't blame the United States for Muslim extremism. That's been around far longer than America has even been thought about.
Copy/paste this: http://adaniel.tripod.com/Islam.htm
But now, because of our acceptance of liberalism in America, we have become the targets of radical Islam. But somehow, that's our fault?
Please, by all means, explain that.
No wonder they call the liberals the "dark side". They're totally in the dark.
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Getting your information about Islam from the internet and its biased sources do not make you aware of the issue.
What you're saying is absolutely one-sided, and very ignorant. You talk as though Islamic fundamentalists have been waging war since the '8th' century, and it has been a continuous cycle of killing and destruction since. Over the span of history, why were the Muslim conquests initiated? Why did the Muslims wage war against non-Muslims in the Near East, Asia Minor, Central Asia, and South Asia? Please don't lecture me on Islamic fundamentalism; my great grandparents were killed by the Ottoman Turks at the beginning of the 20th century because they refused to abandon their Orthodox Christian roots, and refused to conform to Turkish ideals. However, just because I know what it is like to be a target, doesn't mean that I have to, for some reason agree with the actions of the United States on the world stage.
The United States is an IMPERIAL power, no matter how we look at it. The very ideals that your country was created upon have been forgotten for over two centuries now. While you believe that your nation is spreading democracy to the oppressed in the world, think about this: The United States has over 40 military bases in almost 100 countries world wide - yet not one nation has a military base on American soil. Who are the Imperialists here? Which country has installed dictators, supported dictators, and allowed them to flourish, all in the hopes that their nation would some how benefit from such rule? The United States of America! I have not neglected my history lessons, nor do I ignore the fact that Islamic fundamentalism is a threat to our world, but it is a threat that exists in an ideological bubble, that will never be popped because with every triumph, there will be two setbacks, with every 'Muslim fundamentalist' you kill, you will create one hundred more.
You know, my ancestors were killed by the Christian crusaders of Europe because they were Orthodox Christians. They invaded our lands claiming to represent the faith that we profess, but killed us because we refused to submit to the primacy of their leader. After they had killed us, they claimed that it was for the betterment of the Christian world, because of course, they were only trying to rid the world of those savage 'Muslims.' Today, the United States of America, which represents itself as a Judaeo-Christian nation, it's invading sovereign nations, waging war on their people, and killing millions of innocents in search of a handful of fundamentalist Muslims. Do you see any contrast of events here? Do you think the American military knocks on the door of a family to see if they are Muslim or Christian before they bomb the entire neighbourhood because they had reports that some terrorists were taking refuge amongst the civilian population?
The hypocrisy is unbelievable; sometimes I wonder if you lot have been brainwashed, or are just so wrapped up in your own Nationalism that you've become blind to the outside world.
But you know what? Why am I complaining? It is okay for the United States to break every rule of warfare, every international law regarding the respect of sovereignty and the protection of POW's; it's okay for them to invade countries unilaterally against the demands of World Organizations - because you know why? They're the United States, the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth. They can bomb, kill, and invade any country at their will.
But in spite of all this, none of you can seem to comprehend why the world hates you. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:09:29 PM | "But you know what? Why am I complaining? It is okay for the United States to break every rule of warfare, every international law regarding the respect of sovereignty and the protection of POW's; it's okay for them to invade countries unilaterally against the demands of World Organizations..."
I have a challenge for those who are really interested in facts and not just interested in flapping their thoughts because they can.
I challenge anyone who is interested in doing a little research into the countries that the US is in and finding out if A. the US was invited for some purpose of that goverment seeking some kind of help or B. The US muscled it's way into a country while ignoring the worlds leaders at large not to do it.
I did this research on this challenge. So I know the facts of this challenge. That is why I am issuing it so those involved in this thread might learn the difference of rumor and fact and the US, as the OP declares....."to invade countries unilaterally against the demands of World Organizations...". | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/7/2008 9:38:22 PM | Some great posts on this thread.
That it's asked about the perception of us globally and we are hearing from the horses mouths so to speak what is thought and why is such a great opportunity for us. As Americans we can say what we'd like to believe is thought, why we think we should be thought of that way, etc.
I ask one question... what can we do to be a better friend to the global community?
For my fellow Americans, what should we do to meet those expectations while at the same time remaining true to our own beliefs and needs?
How can we be a better nation without compromising ourselves? | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/7/2008 11:30:58 PM |
So, you're suggesting that Sadaam was doing his people right by lowering them into wood chippers? Gassing to death thousands of his own citizens and burying them in mass graves? Shooting people just because they disagree with him? Etc. etc., etc.?
So you're saying that because he's only doing such things to his own people, and not to us, that we had no business going over there to stop him?
So in essence, you are one of those people who would witness a woman being raped in an alley, and your response would be to turn your back and say, "not my problem"?
Nice guy!
You wouldn't happen to be of French ancestry would you?
And yes, if we see atrocities happening ANYWHERE in the world, we will beat up the bullies. That's what we do.
By that analogy I'll assume that Americans believe the way to help a woman who is being raped is to rape her. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 12:34:21 AM | "I ask one question... what can we do to be a better friend to the global community?"
Stop murdering and torturing might help... | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 1:47:08 AM | itechman 42
To answer your question I must ask you a couple of questions :
1- Where in the world is America losing face ? And why ?
2- And why isn't America pulling out all the stops as in humanitarian aid ,funds ,effort and men to complete the mission it had set itself .
3- Why is America diverted by celebrity causes and therefore blind to the real world out there ? The real danger to you since you started to nosy in Iraq. America is being defeated from within first and therefore from without as you sally forth with limited men and resources . America's foriegn policy is set by celebs almost....keeping you short.....so that when you get tangled up in places like Iraq.....you have no funds to build up what you flattened causing bitter resentment which will not end if you withdraw .Withdrawal is a defeat and an ongoing danger . Your troops are in danger now but withdraw without peace and America itself will be in danger.
The world gave up expecting the real America many moons ago .In fact America seems to be a joke and then sometimes you hear a couple of sane typically American posters who remind you of all you knew to be the best about America and I admit feeling ashamed but put it like this.........only friends would try to warn you .
Some Ameicans feel that the world can't live without America......your golden age was upto 1963 . We have other trading partners and if poor folk want to move to America its only the same thing you lot did in the first place.
Leaving the middle east is not an option for you now.The only option is stop being diverted .Bring all your funds ,aid ,G8 and men to bear on this one in a good way and then at least it can be said...ok...you went in there but you actually were humane,gave democracy to the people and left peace behind you.
I am a liberal and an idealist and a European but I feel myself to have grown up on Americana. I loved the westerns ,the freedoms and the amazing Native Culture you have there .You really seem to be bypassing the best of America on purpose. and showcasing the bullshit . I felt the rightness before and now the wrongness is too much to tolerate .
When WW2 was on....the whole thing was geared to win the war and the peace-for them and for us .Well America had no business in Iraq and Afghanistan but since you are there now.......................fix it .Fix what you broke.The lives that you shattered and stop being diverted by celebs and their personal causes elswhere until you can sort out one of the most aggressively hostile acts of your history . | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 4:43:59 AM | Democracy? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
I don't really know what americans have to trade. Their dollar is no longer the world standard. They don't really produce anything but entertainment. The stock market is about to crash because nobody trusts it.
Otherwise America seems to be dependant on everyone else. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 5:38:58 AM |
I challenge anyone who is interested in doing a little research into the countries that the US is in and finding out if A. the US was invited for some purpose of that goverment seeking some kind of help or B. The US muscled it's way into a country while ignoring the worlds leaders at large not to do it.
Answer A
I’m no liberal (but I am foreign, thanks Mom and Dad!), but I’ll throw a few countries for you to consider. What or who gave you the right to meddle in any of the following countries internal affairs?
Chile, Argentina, Indonesia, Guatemala, Iran, Egypt, Iraq, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Bolivia, Angola, Zaire, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Tunisia, Algeria, Jordan, Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Honduras, El Salvador, Nepal, Cuba, Brazil, Uzbekistan.
Again, answer A above. They asked us. Not to mention the fact that America is comprised of citizens of each and every one of the countries you mentioned, plus more.
The United States has over 40 military bases in almost 100 countries world wide - yet not one nation has a military base on American soil. Who are the Imperialists here? Which country has installed dictators, supported dictators, and allowed them to flourish, all in the hopes that their nation would some how benefit from such rule? The United States of America! I have not neglected my history lessons, nor do I ignore the fact that Islamic fundamentalism is a threat to our world, but it is a threat that exists in an ideological bubble, that will never be popped because with every triumph, there will be two setbacks, with every 'Muslim fundamentalist' you kill, you will create one hundred more.
Please explain your math. How do we have 40 bases in 100 diffrent countries?
Did they get divided somehow? But wouldn't that mean we have 100 bases in 100 countries?
Why do we not have any foreign bases on our soil? Because A) we never asked for anyone's help. And B, each and every one of the countries you mentioned, did.
And you're wrong about that anyway. There are some Japanese bases in Texas. I haven't figured out why they're here, but I've seen them. Not to mention that there are always foreign soldiers at nearly all of our bases, recieving training. I myself helped train Iranians back when I was in the military. Which I concede, is looking like that may turn out to have been a mistake, and we have made more than one mistake like that. People do change.
And those terrorists of which you speak created approximately 304,000,000 pissed off citizens who also happen to be from each and every one of the countries you mentioned, and they have no qualms about returning to their homelands to defend them. Not at all. And since we're all neighbors, we don't mind going to our neighbor's homelands, and helping to defend them as well. And there's only 40 US military bases world wide? That's nothing (I think there's actually more). There's over 400 of them in the USA. And as far as stretching our manpower and resources, we haven't even scratched the surface yet. You think our military is big? Wait'll you see our militia, again, comprised of approximately 304,000,000 citizens of all nations, right here in the good 'ol US of A.
quote] The hypocrisy is unbelievable; sometimes I wonder if you lot have been brainwashed, or are just so wrapped up in your own Nationalism that you've become blind to the outside world.
What hypocrisy? We ARE the outside world. We are all foreigners, except of course, the native Americans. Who I admit, did get screwed over by all of us foreigners. But if you want to define 'nationalism' as something other than a bunch of foreigners brought together by the common quest for liberty, then that's your perogative, as twisted as that is to the rest of the world. Talk about brainwashed! I grew up in Europe. The biggest difference I saw over there, is that Europe has a bunch of borders and check points separating each country. Whereas, we have 50 different states with borders, yet not a single check point. That's because we're all from different places, yet believe in the same thing. Liberty.
I just find it so ironic that people who call themselves democrats, only seem to care about their own democracy, and couldn't care less about anybody else's. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 7:21:24 AM | What hypocrisy? We ARE the outside world. We are all foreigners, except of course, the native Americans. Who I admit, did get screwed over by all of us foreigners. But if you want to define 'nationalism' as something other than a bunch of foreigners brought together by the common quest for liberty, then that's your perogative, as twisted as that is to the rest of the world. Talk about brainwashed! I grew up in Europe. The biggest difference I saw over there, is that Europe has a bunch of borders and check points separating each country. Whereas, we have 50 different states with borders, yet not a single check point. That's because we're all from different places, yet believe in the same thing. Liberty.
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You have to be kidding me.
Why are you comparing different countries to 1?
Euro western democracies have as much liberty as America does.
They just aresnt as flag waving .
Yes you are the descendants of foreigners, but unfortunately the knowledge and keeping of your original heritage is lost. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:00:08 AM |
Again, answer A above. They asked us. Not to mention the fact that America is comprised of citizens of each and every one of the countries you mentioned, plus more.
Right on point for point answers. All of that post (of which I only quoted a snipit)
A 'Global View' of the USA or any Country requires Media intervention since that is how we receive our information for the most part. The media is slanted. But, that aside, go to websites in general and you will find all kinds of views on ALL Nations.
As for the trade... do a search on it. Those who believe other Countries are not dependent on the USA in a big way will get a huge surprise. One reason other Nations need us, must have us... is due to the money we spend on their products. Soooo, love the USA or hate the USA, our money (regardless of the rollercoaster ride of the dollar value) is an absolute necessity for Global Economic health.
This is one reason why you will not hear much at all when another Country... be it one in Europe, Middle East or even Canada... implements an embargo against another. But, let the USA place an embargo and the world screams bloody murder. It's our purchase power they seek. Our freedoms they fear and on the flip side, our freedoms they crave for themselves.
Good ole Common Street Sense tells ya that complaints will be lodged against those who do the most help. It's the law of the jungle. Human nature to moan and groan against those who are the most vocal/demonstrative in their assistance.
Then, there is the factor of 'behind closed doors' agreements. Other Countries cry to our political leaders and ask for our help...but, to the eye of the World, they complain against us because it is the new 'fad'.
And, like another Poster pointed out... if we are so horrible, then, the illegal immigration stampede should halt. Right?
As for what the White man did to American Indians. Well, short history lesson (my great grandfather was full blood and orphaned on the Trail of Tears)... the originals are now being traced back approx. 14,000 years from Asia and Ethiopia on the land bridge from Alaska. Once here, they waged war against each other. Tribes across the globe fight each other. From the beginning of time to the present. My people (the Indians) slaughtered innocent families. The White Calvary slaughtered innocent Indians. It was an internal war. Happened here, happens everywhere. I see this brought up in most discussions on how horrible the USA is. If every single Nation on Earth looked to their own history, the internal settling of the USA would seem like a cake walk in comparison.
Yes you are the descendants of foreigners, but unfortunately the knowledge and keeping of your original heritage is lost.
Really? Have you toured the USA? There are entire Communities holding steadfast to Cultures. And, since this Country (the US) is so diversified, that is an awesome task...but, it is present and holding true. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:22:55 AM | I have, and met many first gen Yanks that have no ides of their original cultures which is a shame.
Is some do then great. I applaud them. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:41:02 AM | You have to be kidding me.
Why are you comparing different countries to 1?
Euro western democracies have as much liberty as America does.
They just aresnt as flag waving .
Yes you are the descendants of foreigners, but unfortunately the knowledge and keeping of your original heritage is lost.
Why am I comparing different countries to one? Because that's what this thread happens to be about. Dah!
I never said Euro western democracies had less liberties than Americans do (although I think we do). Was just pointing out that over here, we're proud of our different cultures and heritages, and we share them with each other the best we can. We don't have guarded gates separating us, unlike Europe, land of the separatists. For the most part, we mix well. Sometimes, not so well. For instance, we believe in religious freedom. You can worship any diety or object you want to. If you want to worship a dildo, no one will stop you. As long as you're not trying to force your beliefs upon anyone else, you'll be fine, I'll be fine, we'll all be fine. We do have a problem with some religions that require you to kill your daughter to defend your family's honor (ie. radical Muslims etc).
And what's wrong with waving our flag anyway? Many years ago, I helped a Cuban friend of mine acquire his US citizenship. I've never seen a man more proud to wave that flag. He still proudly waves it today. Flag waving is yet another freedom we cherish. Unlike China, or North Korea, flag waving is not compulsory. But we do it because we love it, and will kill for it, because we've all seen what countries without it are like.
And Jedi Girl, thanks. But as I'm aware of my family's heritage (which I'm not too proud of), I do feel a little regretful, frankly, even though I had nothing to do with it. My ancesters were amongst the first Europeans here. 1619 to be exact. Yep, we killed indians, bought slaves, indentured servants, and started the tobacco industry. How un PC can ya get? | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 8:49:13 AM | Europe is made up of seperate countries, of course there are gates lol.
USA is one nation thats the difference, you have gates at the Canadian and Mexican borders dont you? of course.
As for flag waving, most dont do it as blindly as Americans do. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 9:16:58 AM | quote] Europe is made up of seperate countries, of course there are gates lol.
USA is one nation thats the difference, you have gates at the Canadian and Mexican borders dont you? of course.
As for flag waving, most dont do it as blindly as Americans do.
Yes we do have gates at the Canadian and Mexican borders.
Yet there seems to be a whole lot of those people crossing to our side of them, isn't there?
Oh, and we don't blindly wave our flag. We wave it with proudly, with reverence and deliberation.
<div class="quote">You're right about the 'killing for it' part. We seem to do it time and time again.
And this makes us unique from other countries how? | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 9:49:22 AM | Why is it then that anyone who doesnt wave the USA flag blindly, questions the war and Americas foreign policy is labelled a traitor? or a communist ?
Patriotism doesnt mean you cant think. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 10:14:02 AM |
Patriotism doesnt mean you cant think.
I think Patriotism DEMANDS that you do think. Just because the leaders in power say and do things, that doesn't mean we should just line up behind them unconditionally. Just because they're the leaders, it doesn't make them right. In a Democracy it's our obligation to call into question policies that are questionable.
I did date a Canadian lady for awhile and in a discussion with her I remarked "We Americans like to think we're pretty smart but who's the only country that couldn't figure out the Base-10 Metric system?". | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 10:48:11 AM |
Again, answer A above. They asked us. Not to mention the fact that America is comprised of citizens of each and every one of the countries you mentioned, plus more. "They asked us". Are you sure about that, or is that what you were told? Maybe you should do a bit more reading on some of those countries and what the citizens really wanted/needed (not the CIA propped up Government) at the time of your meddling. Just because your high school text book says they welcomed you doesn’t make it so.
I'm not expecting you to understand why people think the US is an imperialist power, but they do think that, and for good reason.
By that analogy I'll assume that Americans believe the way to help a woman who is being raped is to rape her. Or to rape the woman beside her and tell her it’s for her own good.
And, like another Poster pointed out... if we are so horrible, then, the illegal immigration stampede should halt. Right?
Not at all, people want your money, but that’s a different subject.
We don't have guarded gates separating us, unlike Europe, land of the separatists.
Where do you get this drivel? I mean, if you’re going to spew crap, at least try to make it sound half ass intelligent.
For instance, we believe in religious freedom. You can worship any diety or object you want to. If you want to worship a dildo, no one will stop you..
Ah, I see, you still grasp that old doctrine that you’re the only free people in the world, got it.
As long as you're not trying to force your beliefs upon anyone else, you'll be fine, I'll be fine, we'll all be fine
Sweet irony from a country that forces its beliefs on others. Thanks for the laugh. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 10:49:53 AM | | Well, we may have our freedoms but I think that the authorities might draw the line at Dildo Worship. I might be wrong. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 11:07:23 AM | I've been a part of both sides of the border and prefer canada.
Many reasons:
Americans have a bizarre pre-disposition for power.
Complain about the war even though you know it's a lie yet you support the troops ?
I listen to right wing radio stations ( Hannity, Mike Medved among others ) just to guage the mentality and find that people are so incredibly lost, socially deviant, and divided that murder is now an exceptable excuse for global dominance.
Most Americans fear their own government and will not defend liberty. Based on their candidate choices.
You are easily lied to, you believe what you hear on TV ? and then go the next step and defend what you hear knowing that other sources "really" sound logical.
Americans have been conditioned to see the word conspiracy as an evil thing when in fact it's just a term that means collusion.
The majority (statistic) of americans did not finish highschool, making you easy to control and easy to lie to, Here play this video game and don't bother thinking we have everything under control. better yet I think american idol is on !!
People need to get educated and know that the government knows you are complacent and knowing that they take full advantage of you. This is evident in your acceptance of the patriot act, patriot act two, military commisons act, and the fact that you not only allowed it but you allowed it to be continued.
You allow the federal reserve to starve you and take your homes without getting angry.
Americans seem to forget that your government works for you an when you "allow" them to do things on their own they will always find ways to take that power from you.
It's probably already too late so welcometo the fourth reich.
Just stay asleep, it'll be okay. | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 12:32:16 PM | taken right out of the communist manifesto....or is that marxism? i get the two confused. silly me.
can it be that canadians are so much better educated? hopefully you are comparing apples to apples and not oranges. where in america are you referring to? downtown detroit isnt the same thing as royal oak.
this forum is a real haven for the america haters. is it so much better in russia or china? | |
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| Global View of the United States
Posted: 4/8/2008 3:29:17 PM |
can it be that canadians are so much better educated? hopefully you are comparing apples to apples and not oranges. where in america are you referring to? downtown detroit isnt the same thing as royal oak.
I'm a dual citizen and spent a good deal of my life in the states, All over it really, Mainly California. The southern states actually seemed the least intelligent must be all the bible worship and Nascar ,
I won't use detroit as a reference since it's a cesspool. Every country has it's armpit. It's a verifiable statistic that The US rates one of the lowest in education.
Americans are far too divided as a people, everything is a contest or a game to be won. Left/Right and not much grey area. This causes americans to fight amongst themselves so the government can play you against each other while they strip you of your rights and sovereignty. | |
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