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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 11:37:19 AM | I tried to keep my posts on this neutral, but now I am torn between being furious and being sad, as to be honest, some of your answers have literally made me cry.
As a parent who has had to bury two of her children already (they were born handicapped), I take great offense at this being used as an example to be compared to children borne of incestuous relationships.
As a parent who still has three living children, I take the same offense to the sweeping statements that incest doesn't hurt anyone, so who are we to say?
I've got shrexy's back on this one, 100%, and frankly am astounded at the high percentage of answers that attempt to gloss this over, as something to possibly consider acceptable, or 'none of our business'.
You can call it a 'perceived' morality issue, or whatever the hell you like to sweep it under the rug, but if the inherent wrongness of incest needs to be explained and justified, or that it is okay unless children come out of such unions, then I or anyone else may just as well  , than waste my breath or blood pressure trying to explain the obvious. I hope to God I never become that 'enlightened' because if that is the definition of it, this world is in some serious trouble.
Out of curiosity, how many of you who say there's no harm in it, have children of your own?
*keeps fingers crossed that answer is: zero*
Rant over.
hnh
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 12:12:27 PM | *sigh*
Being angry doesn't make you right. Being upset doesn't make you right. Being morally outraged doesn't make you right. Nor are they arguments in themselves, though some of you guys seem to think they are.
The woman was 31 years old when they met. That's MY age. I'd personally consider myself responsible for my own decisions. As is she. I'm not saying that she doesn't have issues, but I think considering her as the "victim" is an insult to her, and I suspect she'd say the same.
There comes a point in your life when you take responsibility for who you are and where you are, and this woman seems pretty much to have made that decision.
Don't get me wrong (though that seems to be the theme of this increasingly histrionic thread) I find it icky too. I come from the same culture, the same taboos, the same disgust. But I don't mistake that for owning rightness. You say that it shouldn't be necessary to explain the "inherent wrongness". I'm trying repeatedly to make my point, so I'll make it one more time.
In my opinion, if no one else is harmed, there is no inherent wrongness in any action ever at all ever.
You can debate this point or discuss it all you like but that's how I see things. Just stop damn well judging me for not seeing the world the same as you. I don't. And stop saying I think things or said things I didn't. I never said incest doesn't hurt anyone. What an idiotic thing for me to say, or for anyone to say I said. I said that IN THIS CASE there is no victim. Clearly incest in 99.99% of cases is a terrible thing, a breach of trust, of responsibility. I have friends myself who have been victims of it and the difficulty they have trusting, loving, now is a real tragedy. But that's not the case here. They didn't even know each other previously. There was no trust to be broken, no bond to be twisted. Despite the genetic connection there was absolutely no emotional one, which is the REAL point. Anyone who has grown up adopted or had a stepfather/mother from a very young age can tell you that.
As for who has children. Yes, I do. I have an 8 year old son. I'm not quite sure how having children is supposed to make me suddenly lose all capacity for rational thought, or somehow join the "think of the children and nothing else" brigade. I'm also extremely offended that you think that my personal views on a particular subject make me a bad father. That's pretty much what you mean by "fingers crossed" right? That such a terrible person should not be permitted to have children because they don't see the world your way. Am I wrong to be offended by that?
HnK, I was going to be apologetic, but the fact is I'm not sorry. If something I said made you cry... I regret that, but... harden up. Seriously. Nothing was intended as an insult to you, and any offense you took was your own choice. I'm having a discussion on a forum, and I refuse to stop and think of every possible offense someone might arbitrarily take. If you can't discuss it, don't discuss it. But don't blame me for that. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 12:45:01 PM | whitegold:
I never mentioned you by name specifically, or directed my comments to you specifically, because I did not mean you specifically. You can take that as truth, as I am not one to pu$$yfoot around. You were not the only poster who had a nonchalant attitude, nor am I the only one who had an "emotional" one. And I never once said that anyone with an opinion different than mine who had children, was a bad parent. I merely asked the question out of curiosity. You were the one who took the leap to assume such.
If you do not wish for me to take things personally, and think I should toughen up some, I suggest you set me a good example.
I don't need anyone's pity for what I have gone through with the two of my children, as a matter of fact that is something I rarely share. Nor did I take anything as a personal insult from you. I mentioned it only as a precursor to partly explain why I so strongly hold my opinions on that particular comparison.
You are entitled to your thoughts on this matter, as I am entitled to mine.
And as far as you not being apologetic toward me, that's fine too, it's not required.
In my opinion, if no one else is harmed, there is no inherent wrongness in any action ever at all ever. By the same token and in all fairness, you no doubt will also naturally understand that I won't be apologetic in disagreeing with this statement. But in all sincerity, and not to be contentious, whitegold, I honestly hope that nothing ever happens to you or yours, where that theory is put to the test.
Nothing I say will change your opinion, nor vice versa, so let us just agree to disagree, without hacking each other, or anyone else, to pieces over it.
hnh
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 3:08:23 PM | I didn't see it - and I'm glad. Caught an ad for it, or the last few seconds where the woman said all they want is respect. I can do without this kinda stuff in my life. To be honest - I was stunned. Gobsmacked would be the word. Doesn't happen very often.
My kids asked me to explain - how can I do that? I told them basically and in simple terms, without being emotive what I thought was going on - as I assumed, not having watched the grot on air....and they were as repulsed as I was.
At that point I didn't know there was a child involved. I grudgingly decided that if they wanted to live like that - in what will now surely be a tortured existence, seeing as most of the country knows - I thought so be it. As long as they don't have children. Then I come in here, and find out they already do - and it makes me angry that they could visit their 'sins' (for lack of a better word (at the very least what they know to be medically unsafe - not to mention what that little girl is gonna have to live with now everybody at school has seen her 'folks' on tv) on an innocent child.
When Shrexy said put yourself in their position (not the words, but same gist), I could do that exactly. I split with my children's father when the kids were very young, and if this happened to my daughter, I would be incensed. I would have to be tied down to stop me taking a stand against it, I think. Apart from that, I hope I've raised my daughter with a healthier sense of right and wrong than this poor woman's parents (YUKKKKKK) must have.
Having said all of this, the media screws with these stories so much, I wonder what the truth really is. I have no doubt about the basic nature of the item being true...but how much more is there to it? We will never know.
My heart screams wrong ,wrong, wrong. No children should be born of this. | |
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| Arkansas Part II
Posted: 4/7/2008 4:42:56 PM | Didn't they make a movie call Deliverance with banjo playing cousins who were all interbred ?
Sick **stards ............... as there is no thought of the illnesses connected with the inbreds and look at the Pharoahs who married their sisters or other royalty who got it on with 1st line cousins.
Forget the exposure to illnesses, but what about school and the same dirty of pervert going to parents and grandparents days ?
I came across some interesting families in my career - including the brother and sister who fathered a son and went on for the father to reproduce with his step sister another girl. Now it was 10 years after I came across these people before I ever knew this and it was purely by accident that it was known that when 1 of the adult kids, and the inbred son died from a blood disease, that the father did not last too much longer with the same disease. If anyone has seen the movie SNAKEATERS, think of the inbreeders in that movie - I rest my case. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 5:19:52 PM | Ok Im back
A few things
The woman was 31 years old when they met
This is actually untrue although given no-one when posting knew this, the couple actually met when the daughter was 15 and they had previously lived together. The couple lied in the interview (what a surprise) and there is more info regarding this on the following link:
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=443023
This information has been supplied by the former ex wife and mother of the daughter.
Just stop damn well judging me for not seeing the world the same as you. I don't.
Whitegold your words, but thats exactly what you have done to all the other posters who disagreed with your point of view and then you resorted to sarcasm to Shrexy, was that necessary ? I defend your rite absolutely to post whatever you wish, however when the majority of people disagree with you, does not make them wrong ? It just shows that they too are entitled to their opinions. When you post you leave yourself open to scrutiny and observation..thats what a public forum is.....the point of a forum is to post opinions, ideas, debate and healthy discussions not resort to nastiness or name calling or anything else for that matter.
This is a emotive issues for many people and when people post with their ideas we have no idea of their experiences and their history and perhaps we all should be mindful of that before we judge. We all come from our own perspectives and as you said last nite, our morals are subjective......you have provided the forum with some excellent points and thoughts on this issue, ....you always do, but I was sad to see you get into a for want of a better word "slinging" match with Shrexy and H n H.....I just dont think it was necssary....uncalled for....My own opinion was not just on the the couple and how appalling I found it all but that they chose to have a child who is the victim here but that some people went , "yep thats fine, whatever, there not bothering anyone"..my argument was when do we as a society say enough is enough, this is not acceptable behaviour ???
I admire you passion, I really do...and I love reading your posts....I love your points of view and your sense of humour which I encountered when I wandered onto another thread last nite and you had posted..I did piss myself laughing at your wit...but I think at this point we are all pretty aware of where we stand on this issue and lets leave all the patronising and condescending edge out of discussion and debate the topic at hand........group hug perhaps ? lets debate why then when live, how much did they get, whats going to happen to the baby etc..plenty of things to discuss here...
Mmmmnicky...Yes very aware of the sex sites and other venues that offer incest, bestiality, fetishes, kinks etc....very aware and to each their own, ....however just because they are on offer to persue and do, does not make it acceptable in society (behind closed doors...perhaps)
Ill put it to you another way...if you went into the lunch room at work today, winked at your colleagues and said you were going home to "do" your partner well and truly tonite...Im sure some would slap you on the back and say "go for it"...wink wink.....perhaps if you said you were going home tonite to do your horse, your mother, your goldfish or your father, your brother or sister, or Goldie the budgie, pretty sure the reaction would not be the same!!! | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 6:03:36 PM | im not advocating it at all.. as state i find it gross to just put simply... all i meant by that comment was.. how scary it is .. in sense of how common it is.. at the very least, in peoples mind.
i still think they can do what they like.. but in terms of the kids i do see it as a form of child abuse what they have done.. and hope the government acts accordingly.. two consenting adults doing what they want is one thing.. but involving children in the matter is another.
to the poster who remarked that ppl who didn't share an opinion to them.. and hopefully didn't have kids.. i dont have kids.. and i took that as a very personal insult.. i have neices and nephews i adore.. and i have as an aunt instilled good values in them... when needed as an aunt.. im a fairly moral person.. to ?? i dont know to inject that ppl who share a 'blaise' attitude to this shouldn't have kids is wrong.. very wrong of u to say. just coz my attitude is mixed (ie, take kids out of equation, more blaise) doesn't mean i would bring up children with the 'its ok to fook ur daddy when ur of age' attitude..
i dont at all think incest is right.. but there is a difference between knocking on their door with an electrocution chair and psychologist to handle 'them' and just going eek, yuck, and not wanting to have anything to do with them, leaving them to their own lives. two men or two women who have sex is just as morally wrong, or a man who has a sex change then has relationships with men or women depending on the desire is morally wrong to, these ppl also bring up children who i cant help but feel will grow up with a distorted view, (the pregnant 'man', for example).. but i just believe.. two adults who choose to have sex is their business, no matter what the connection, the key words being 'its their business'.
i also find it very wrong in this couple's incidence that they choose to tell the world.. i cant help but wonder why... for what purpose.. they cant be that stupid to think the world will go 'oh they are in love, awwww hap hap happy smiles all around' i think very few will really support the union, it probably if anything has only incensed ppl further over this issue, therefore going against any positive intended purpose. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 7:10:25 PM | I'll try to keep civility in this.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, its what makes out wonderful world so wonderful.
I certainly dont hink you need to have kids to have opinions.
Bu just something to consider. Experience is often a good teacher, not the only one by any means but a good one. In fact...many teachings are simply based on another's who has.
Again ..you dont need kids to have a valid an inofrmed opinion here..
But I will make the following observations:
If you have kids you ought to know the inbult mechanisms that switch on as a parent and these should ( not always ) colour your approach to many thngs.
Further to this, if you are a male and have a daughter (s) then your opinion might be further directed along particular paths.
I shall reiterate... she needs help. I dont think her facultie are quite on the straight and narow.. or any othe rcourse for that matter. She is essentially infatuated and borderline delusional.
He ( the father...and I use that word in this context by defualt ) should simply be visited upon by many others ( real fathers ) and shown the error of his ways !! | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:10:43 PM |
He ( the father...and I use that word in this context by defualt ) should simply be visited upon by many others ( real fathers ) and shown the error of his ways !!
Top idea,cos smacking people is obviously the way to solve things. And there I was thinking the depth of our gene pool was in danger from people like those two....... | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:15:39 PM | all kinds of experiences can colour opinions.. my ex's family were destroyed because the step father, fooled around with the grand kids.. that i happen to walk in on.. and thus destroyed the family... but of course this was as it should be.. he had no right to touch those kids.. so experiences do colour ur judgements.. but that is children, being taken advantage of by a man of supposedly in position of caring and knowing better. ill never forget that day, nor the contempt i feel for the man nor the disgust i feel for his wife (my ex's mother) choosing to stay with him after he was found out.
yes i agree something must be wrong with this woman and this man to be in such a relationship.. but i also say they are at least two adults who are making a decision to do something.. (lets take their kids out of equation coz i think everyone can agree that that aspect to the situation is very wrong).
i dont at all approve.. im just of the belief of 'bleh their life i dont care'. as long as its not in my face i dont care (kids aside). i dont look at it and find joy it sickens me.. but again their life... they can choose to do with it what they will. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:42:44 PM |
Top idea,cos smacking people is obviously the way to solve things. And there I was thinking the depth of our gene pool was in danger from people like those two.......
oh Im sorry...dare I suggest the excising of a cancer !!..diddums
No you're right...he ought to be poster boy for good parenting !!  | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 8:57:39 PM | Possibly our gene pool is in more danger from the neanderthals amongst us who think fists are the way to go.
No I dont agree with what they are doing, I think its pretty vile actually but I believe just as strongly that stoving someones head in is just as wrong as what is being done by the pair of them.
diddums
Someone needs to grow up a little I think. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 9:13:01 PM | So sad but true Shrexy, why don't people think about these issuse before before having children.
Mafato said the above ...... sadly . not many think before they have children ,,, this child might be more loved tha a lot of others from parents who "Fit" societies rules .
I don't agree with what they have done ,,, I have two daughters , and I don't understand how the guy can do what he has done .
However, I was raised in one of the biggest religions of the world ,, and discovered at an early age , that was a lot of rot . I see many of the rules of our society made by people from similar origins . So who am I to say they are right or wrong ? Just because our society says so? Hell , some societies not so long ago said it was ok to eat your fellow man . And as for their sexual preferences , well,I 'd say many were similar , if not more , bizarre than this .
So, I say just think a bit before condemning them ,,, that's what happened in years gone bye , and they had lynch mobs then . And many died because they didn't agree with the rules of their "society".
I feel sorry for the child having to grow up in our society , as it will suffer some pretty hard times as a result of this . But probaly not much worse than my neighbours I grew up with . There were four children all around my age , with alchoholic parents ,,,, their lives were not real flash either.
So, even though I don't agree with the path they have chosen , I hope things work out for them , especially for the child's sake . | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 9:54:33 PM |
name calling ?..
Nah name calling would have been "neanderthals like shrexy" but the comment was not specifically aimed at you. I consider anyone who uses their fists to solve issues as a neanderthal and coming from the very shallow end of the gene pool.
But I guess if the cap fits....feel free to wear it! | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 10:00:49 PM | ah.at least now youre prepared to take ownership of your remarks. 
Strangely enough ..fists were never mentioned.. . but there you go. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 10:06:54 PM |
He ( the father...and I use that word in this context by defualt ) should simply be visited upon by many others ( real fathers ) and shown the error of his ways !!
You were suggesting he be offered tea and cake and civilly spoken to about his actions??
Maybe someone else needs to take ownership of his remarks!
Im done here, obviously a person has to live in the world according to shrexy to be entitled to an opinion! | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 10:35:14 PM | hilly and shrexy are fighting, hilly and shrexy are fighting, hilly and shrexy are fighting
. . . . and i am gonna tell mum !  | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/7/2008 11:06:47 PM | i, like others, don't care what people do behind closed doors - and we all know some amazing things happen.
that fact that they decided to make their love-in public was what sickened me more! what for - what can they possibly gain from it?! or is it just another part of their sick persona. bad enough a father farks his daughter and claims it is the best sex he has had, but the fact that in turn produces offspring is, to me, where it now oversteps the mark of sex for the sake of it.
i think these people need psychological help - a: for their bizarre sexual relationship; b: for having a child/children when clearly it is not a wise decision; c: they made it public. sick puppies both of them.
they will now suffer the consequences of all of that but more so the child/children from that union and that is to me is the travesty!  | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/8/2008 1:01:38 AM |
Im done here, obviously a person has to live in the world according to shrexy to be entitled to an opinion!
excuse me..
It wasnt I who played the man and not the ball.
Last I looked I was contributing (or otherwise ) to the debate.. not casting aspersions at others !!
Deary me.. all very well attempting belittelment but if someone doesnt particulalry agree ..to go sulking off !!
I dont run from anything I say and am only too happy to be asuaded should a better premise or argument be shown. No-ones done that yet. ( for me )
And for the record you dont have to hit someone to convince them they might be wrong. | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/8/2008 1:37:09 AM | ok i will shout it from my roof top
YOU DONT FARK YOUR DAUGHTER>
who gives a rats arse about the moral code of this relationship situation is or not.
YOU dont do it.
just like
YOU DONT MURDER YOUR CHILDREN
so many inflamatory comments ... so many people trying to stir a pot.
One child of thiers died already . And who knows the future for the little one.
x mmm
white gold... how is your relationship with your daughter? | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/8/2008 1:52:57 AM | | in support of whitegold it was a son, and i think that is below the belt.. m&m | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/8/2008 2:06:41 AM |
Possibly our gene pool is in more danger from the neanderthals amongst us who think fists are the way to go
I take great offence to that statement!! We are way beyond using fists to solve our problems, we now have the club!! | |
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| Getting it on with Dad?
Posted: 4/8/2008 2:26:18 AM |
I take great offence to that statement!! We are way beyond using fists to solve our problems, we now have the club!! And a very nice club it is too.. lol 
M M M....right on the money...its not really that hard is it !!! | |
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