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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:20:32 AM | | Shared parenting, now what if one parent has abusive tendencys and has extreme anger issues, do you think that they should be allowed near their child? Would you put your childs life endanger, just because they are a biological parent, and not nessecaely a parent but just a donar. Or do you think that the parent should find another person they are happy with and have a better role model for that child then what there donar is..Just a thought | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:46:14 AM |
hared parenting, now what if one parent has abusive tendencys and has extreme anger issues, do you think that they should be allowed near their child?
Just out of curiosity, did you READ any posts in the thread, or READ the document that started this thread? Considering, in ALL posts, it has been said repeatedly that both parents should be there, assuming they are safe and sane... which does not mean abusive or anger tendencies. Alienating a child from a GOOD parent, is wrong. that is basically what has been said. Please, read the thread. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 12:51:30 PM | ""Are you really saying that if you thought it was in the best interest of your children that you would have left them home? I do not know very many mothers that would do that, they want to be with their children. ""
yeah, i am really saying that. in fact,, let me expand upon the notion for you. even the worst of mothers and fathers "want to be with their children". deciding who should leave isnt about who wants to be with the kids more, its about what situation is most beneficial to the child. If i believed and had proof that my influence with my children was detrimental if i remained living with them, i would go. That is not to say I would not work on getting a better footing on my life to be a better parent, nor is it saying I wouldnt visit and be involved during the process. This would demonstrate to them that you can overcome adversity, and that you can grow and improve. but in my case,, that wasnt the situation. he left escorted by the police department and ordered by the court to keep his distance till the entire matter of divorce and custody/visitation could be worked out. NO COURT, ever required him to go thru rehab, or limited and supervise his visitation.
its funny how you make why fathers are the ones who usually leave, sound so noble. in fact, the reasons they often are the ones to leave, or be left, has got nothing to do with who is better suited to earn a living. its usually because either one or both parents cant tollerate living under the same roof with their spouce. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:23:53 PM | | P_trish this isn't about you and your man ..or your children ....its a general discussion about equal parenting and the benefits the children gain having both parents in there lives ,,many studies have been done to prove the benefits are positive where the opposite is proving true with so many of the children from sole custody and single parent family's .... you might be an exception ,,but you aren't the proof that what has been learnt is faulse..you are but one ..and by far don't represent all family's and women ...,,nor by far does your ex represent all fathers and men ..let the evidance rule .. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:40:19 PM | "its usually because either one or both parents cant tollerate living under the same roof with their spouce."
Yup, and I would agree with this. I don't think it crosses their minds until after they have left what the ramifications of that decision is. The best parent for the kids may have in fact walked out the door because they can't stand the other spouse.
The question that one has to ask oneself should be centred around the kids. Do I spend more time with them, am I the one taking time off when they are sick etc.. if it is yes then don't leave. The problem then is does the other spouse have the economic means to support not only a new place but pay child support on top of that.
I still don't buy that women do not feel that they are the better or more involved parent and therefore should have the kids. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 3:51:47 PM | P_trish this isn't about you and your man ..or your children
""P_trish this isn't about you and your man ..or your children ....""
NO KIDDING! DUH,, i never said it was,
but when someone asks,or it demonstrates a point, im gonna answer and use it as an example. good god man, PAY ATTENTION!
secondly,, those studies you refer to insinuate that because one is single they dont have the capacity to parent successfully, is clearly not the case. THERE ARE JUST AS MANY EXAMPLES OF SUCCESSFUL SINGLE PARENTS AS THEIR ARE FOR THOSE WHO WERENT SUCCESSFUL. the reasons that ppl arent successful as parents is not soley that they are single. george senior and barbara parented dubya,,and look at the mess of an adult he is! Bill Clintons mother was single most of his life. You cant use being single as the sole reason why ppl dont parent accurately. that is just as idiotic as saying ppl with blue eyes are far superior to those with brown. there is just so much more to why ppl arent successful parents than their marital status. what i dont understand is why thats so difficult to understand for you. to borrow from an analogy,, being single is similar to that of a cough to a cold,, one is the symptom, the other a disease.( i am praying you understand what an analogy is, but i am betting you wont)
those stats that the op keeps posting endlessly about percentages of kids from single parents homes to become the complete degradents of society,, he conveniently omits just when in the course of time those particular numbers were developed. he as well, doesmt offer much in the way of exceptions to his rule. nor do you for that matter. i dot represent anyone but me, never assumed to, presumed to, or asserted myself as such, you dreamed that one up. but what is clear is that the op is a proponent for a theory of a man who was a proponent for sexually deviant behavior between and adult and children. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THE TWO!
PAS, is a crock of $hit! and the man who coined that nonsence was a nut job who offed himself. you lot want the rest of us to buy into that notion. pardon me, but no,, im not gonna support a notion built by a man who wanted to make it acceptable to have sex with children. no reasonable human being would support that bull!
given what most ppl have made of their relationships,, shared parenting is a really vague and not likely to be made reality concept. its a great idea to hope that adults can put their differences aside to the sole benefit of the children, but when one wont, the other is left to simply defend their children agaisnt that person. unfortunately, we cant all live in DISNEYWORLD! | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:41:55 PM | ^^^ IMO, if you are saying that Clinton is a better, more well adjusted person that W, then I would say you have a warped sense of perception.
~ds~ | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:55:03 PM | [QUOTE]just had to call you on your stupidity using this forum for your political agenda....you know, there is a political forum, don't you??? Or, is this another thread hi-jacking you're attempting?
[/QUOTE] ^^^^^^^^^^
Back on topic.There is such a thing as rescue, where one or both parents are
unfit, kids need both male and feminine input, not necessarily
derelict parents who prove dangerous to the kids. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 8:40:30 PM |
im not gonna support a notion built by a man who wanted to make it acceptable to have sex with children. no reasonable human being would support that bull!
Here we go again. Bubble bath trish is spewing BS again. So H bent on arguing against something that has been proven to occur at a growing rate...One narcissistic sociopath parent criminally and maliciously interfering with and preventing a loving relationship between the other parent and the child/children. Please Trish, Humor us all, Please provide us all proof to back up your statements and acusations. Please?? Please??
no reasonable human being would support that bull
You must be crazy!!! No reasonably sane human being would turn their back on such horrendous and heinous child abuse as that caused by PAS. Only a person who is guilty of such criminal acts would argue to the level in which you have.
One more, Please Please. Please Please understand that we all get that you are against everything this thread stands for. Everyone has been victim to or have wittnessed your "default" 'broad brushed' made up arguments. Please Please refrain from attacking other posters to this thread. Please Please | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:03:07 PM |
Our goal should be to help men and women to cooperate, communicate and work together for the best interest of the children.
this is a great goal..now..go talk to the parent who walked away while we were begging them to help us with the medical coverage bill or asking them to take little johnny that 1 extra night a week so we can work..see what they say..oh what? You can't find em either?? hmmm..
Children do have the right to have both parents in thier life..but you have to get that through the thick heads of the one who walked away..not the ones who stayed and struggled through it all | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/9/2008 9:24:20 PM | ^^^ I totally agree. Children should have two supportive involved parents. If they don't, shame on anyone who willfully deprived them of it.
If someone abandoned their children, shame on them.
If someone alienated a willing and capable parent, shame on them. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 4:33:57 AM | ah....but therein lies the inherent problem with this.. Prove it..
Ask me and he walked away on his own accord... Ask him and I pushed him away by constantly asking for help, financially or otherwise, in raising my son.
Ask me and i stopped the phone calls that left my son crying every night and asking me a ton of questions , which I had no answer for, about why daddy doesn't care/answer/love me/come visit/etc..
Ask him and I a mean bi*** who put those question in his head and then stopped the phone calls for my own personal vendetta..
Ask me and I'll say he's a lazy. selffish PITA, who can't hold a job. Ask him and he'll say he has a job and the goverment is taking money out for my son, but he can't explain why they aren't sending it to me.
Ask me and I'll say he doesn't visit his son because he doesn't want to see me or hear me ask him again to help me raise him. Ask him and he'll say he doesn't want to see my mother, but he's willing to meet me somewhere and that he does help raise him. (side bar: I haven't lived with my mother in over 2 years and he knows it, and I am willing ot meet him somewhere, but he never picks a day)
There are a thousand other he said she said involved in here..Ask my friends and they will tell you what I say, ask his and they will tell you what he does..
Now prove which one of us is right? and don't you dare think of putting my 8 year old on trial.
I'm not agreeing that people have the right to interefere with a relationship between a child and a parent. They don't. I just think this parental alientation thing is ludicruist. All it is, is a vechile for some pissed of non-custodial parent to utilize to make the other parent's life miserable. I'm not saying to there are zero cases where one parent pushes another away, I'm sure it happens. I would argue that it happens alot less then any statistic, study or person says it does. Action, words, whatever can be twisted into anything you want. Normally when there are two sides of a story, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Human Nature.. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:47:29 AM |
I just think this parental alientation thing is ludicruist. All it is, is a vechile for some pissed of non-custodial parent to utilize to make the other parent's life miserable. I'm not saying to there are zero cases where one parent pushes another away, I'm sure it happens. I would argue that it happens alot less then any statistic, study or person says it does. Action, words, whatever can be twisted into anything you want.
You Are Saddly Mistaken.
Are you saying that your assumptions and opinions are more accurate than hundreds and probably thousands of studies into PA?
Change non-custodial to custodial in this
is a vechile for some pissed of non-custodial parent to utilize to make the other parent's life miserable. and you will be stating something truthful.
If your situation is not one of PA by you against the father then why are you bashing what happens to other people in their own situations? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 7:17:42 AM |
ah....but therein lies the inherent problem with this.. Prove it..
I totally agree that this is the difficult part.
However, it is the cast with lots of crimes. Someone has to decide who is telling the truth for the protection of society. We do it in other cases of child abuse, why not this? If the child is possibly being harmed, why wouldn't we investigate to see if it is malice?
It is too far, however, to say this is NOTHING but a tool for noncustodial parents to hurt custodial parents. That is similar to saying that prosecuting dead beats is only a tool for custodial parents to hurt non custodial parents.
By the way, I really appreciate the way you are able to see your ex's side of the argument. It is important to remember there is another side to just about every argument you hear. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:45:42 PM | Yes I am saying this. Why? Because if you look at what I posted about my situation.. Is that a case of PA? If you talk to him I bet it'd make a good argument. However I in no way kept him from his child. He chose to not do the right things and he chose to walk away. But if you get a good lawyer and a nice jury preferrably those who have felt cheated by their SO, you bet he has a good shot at winning.
I will not change non-custodial to custodial! What this sounds like is another method for a group of people to defer the responsibilities (or consequences, effects, whatever) for thier choices to someone else. ie..It's not my fault I dont'take care of my child, she makes me feel so guilty for not financially supporting the child that I can't bear to see my children. Shame on her. It's not my fault that I don't support my child, it's hers for making me feel guilty about not doing it.
Oh jeez..I'm not bashing what happens to others.. I believe I even said, i'm not implying that it never happens...why is it that you diagree with someone and it's instantly bashing? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 5:56:51 PM | Thank you Jeff..I do see both sides of the coins. I know lots of single parents. I know dad who have custody of thier kids, dad who are fighting for custody and dads who are running from the responsibility.
I personally hate the child support system. Do I have a case filed? yes I do. I need the money when I can get it and it's what is available. I don't agree with the consequences they impose on the payor if they don't pay, I don't agree with a lot of things it does or doesn't do. My small voice won't do much as i have already written letters to newpapers, congressmen and the main child support office in my state, only to receive polite thank you for your letter letters.
That being said accusing someone of PA is not the same as procesuting a deadbeat. Normally if it comes to that, you can prove beyond a doubt that the non-custodial parent is not paying his half of the cost to raise the child. How can you possibly prove that PA is happening? The child only has one parent raising him and the other says..well I would but I'm not able to see him. Well then send me to trial! that's exactly what my ex will claim. He'd be a dad if only i'd let him. It's complete horseshit, but it's his word against mine. And he'll get the sympathy from the jury. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:15:30 PM | THERE ARE JUST AS MANY EXAMPLES OF SUCCESSFUL SINGLE PARENTS AS THEIR ARE FOR THOSE WHO WERENT SUCCESSFUL
now p-trish ..thats a lie..
it common knowledge now that this isn't the case ....
it is also common knowledge now with professionals coming forward in our courts with evidence that the children do better with both parents in there lives ..it doesn't make sense to some women who have issues with men ..and it never will..but when this evidence is presented in court men get far better custody arangements..instead of spending all the money on a lawyer ..bring in a professional child councillor and you will have some weight on your side to even the scales out ..because children do need both parents ..
this topic is about children having both parents after a brake up ..because devoice doesn't have to hurt the children they way it has by not allowing both parents to share the children,,they do so much better when children have both parents no less then 40-% of the time ..studies have been done and the courts have started to listen ..the facts are there now... | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:32:32 PM | | ya know..It's tough to raise a kid on your own. you have to be tough as nails to do it. Of course a child will do better with both parents taking care of them. but in the absence of both, one parent is perfectly capable of successfully raising a child. now you can pull out all the welare child statistic you want or all the other statistics you'd like to list, but for each one there is another to refute it and vica versa. I am not going to play that game. You put your kids first and make the decisions that is right for them, you stand a good chance of raising a child sucessfully. Just as good as a married couple would. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 6:39:39 PM | ya know..It's tough to raise a kid on your own. you have to be tough as nails to do it. Of course a child will do better with both parents taking care of them.
exactly NotInnocent and thats the point we are all trying to make here .
.Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
I am glad you agree..and I am sorry you will have to do it alone..I hope you meet a good man to help out..
you stand a good chance of raising a child sucessfully. Just as good as a married couple would.
this isnt true acording to the studies carried out now ..but if you are forced to go it alone lets hope yours turn out ok ..thats all any parent can hope for. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:04:50 PM | Please visit the following web page and provide comments on what Jayne A. Major, Ph.D. (UCLA) has shared.
http://www.breakthroughparenting.com/PAS.htm | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 8:42:23 PM | Here's what i think of that article. I think it's a very good effort to sell the product she is promoting. I also think it is a very good method for a lawyer to get the client to do the legwork for her.
In there i see a statment I myself made (implied rather)in this thread.. possibly why you wanted me to read it?? " The alienator typically responds, "There isn't anything that I can do about it. I'm not telling him that he can't see you." My child doesnt' want to see his dad, he wants a step-dad. And I have never said a negative thing about his dad to him or when he is even home.
Child-custody battles are so messy, children are torn in two. all of the symptons listed there are also indicitive of a child who is angry at a parent and they don't always pick the one who moved out. It's completely unfair to determine that a child is brainwashed because they say they won't want to see thier dad. Also if two people are seperated, get a job and get your own money. of course whoever gets to the bank account first is going to take the money and run. i have been alieniated because my ex cut off my financial resources and took my kids?? Wrong answer. You are not a smart person, since you did not secure a job or get on state assistance!! I cant' believe they even say that call me when you get there or call me if you are scared or want to come home is a start to alieniation. When is a new sepaeration they are going to a new home, maybe a new town, everything is new. this can scare kids. I see this more as showing your kids that you are there for them, even when you are not in the room. Showing them love and that they are still loved and cared for and safe. nothing in that is alienation.
Now..the section on why they act like they do.. that sounds like someone who should not be a custodial parent for many many reasons. and if we have to make us a disease or whatever you classify alienation as to justify taking the kids from them, then something is seriously wrong with the system already in place.
this syndrome sounds more and more like a father who had alot of trouble getting custody of his kids and decided to create and outlet for non-custodial parents to transfer guilt to. throughtout the whole article it says this happens in rare cases. there is no dates on this article..I wonder if it is also 20 years old..
I'm done picking this apart. I have so much more I can say about all of this crap. but it's crap basically. You claim that the other parent is keeping you from your kids then do what the rest of us do. take them to court and make the courts listen..just give the courts something real to enforce, not this victim crap. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 9:36:58 PM |
In there i see a statment I myself made (implied rather)in this thread.. possibly why you wanted me to read it??
I am sorry you feel as you do. I did not post this to imply anything to any one person. This thread is not just about your situation. If things are as you have described then I am sorry they are that way. It is not fair to you or your child.
Child-custody battles are so messy, children are torn in two. all of the symptons listed there are also indicitive of a child who is angry at a parent and they don't always pick the one who moved out. It's completely unfair to determine that a child is brainwashed because they say they won't want to see thier dad.
You are taking everything stated personaly. No one said you brainwashed your kid. The fact of the matter is brainwashing does ocurr in severe cases of parent alienation, the child is utterly brain- washed against the alienated parent. The alienator can truthfully say that the child doesn't want to spend any time with this parent, even though he or she has told him that he has to, it is a court order, etc. The alienator typically responds, "There isn't anything that I can do about it. I'm not telling him that he can't see you."
Also: An important point is that in PAS there is no true parental abuse and/or neglect on the part of the alienated parent. If this were the case, the child's animosity would be justified. Also, it is not PAS if the child still has a positive relationship with the parent, even though one parent is attempting to alienate the child from him or her.
Now..the section on why they act like they do.. that sounds like someone who should not be a custodial parent for many many reasons. and if we have to make us a disease or whatever you classify alienation as to justify taking the kids from them, then something is seriously wrong with the system already in place.
There are numerous things wrong with the system currently in place, thus the movement for change.
this syndrome sounds more and more like a father who had alot of trouble getting custody of his kids and decided to create and outlet for non-custodial parents to transfer guilt to. throughtout the whole article it says this happens in rare cases. there is no dates on this article..I wonder if it is also 20 years old..
Now why would you say this? It is not like you can see what happens to other people in this world. This whole thread is about what happens to some people and not about everyone who goes through divorce or seperation. Some of us and our children have been put through pure Hell. I guess I never would have believed much of this prior to becoming a target parent. This article was published in 2004 I think.
I'm done picking this apart. I have so much more I can say about all of this crap. but it's crap basically. You claim that the other parent is keeping you from your kids then do what the rest of us do. take them to court and make the courts listen..just give the courts something real to enforce, not this victim crap.
Such wonderful words of wisdom.
My last comment to you is; if the shoe does not fit you do not wear it, but do not insist that this sort of abuse does not exist. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/10/2008 11:16:46 PM | Some parents are blinded by the anger, and will always refuse to see the other parent as an equal. Some will make things up as they go along just to stay in control. IE: suggesting the other parent to take parenting courses, yet they fail to do so themselves because everything about them is perfect.
I don't carry this opinion from experiences of my own. Just watching from the sidelines.
I think a lot of people would benefit from this site, its from an accredited professional that deals with divorce/custody issues :
http://www.yoursocialworker.com/sep-dev.htm
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/11/2008 12:11:01 AM |
google legal aid and custody ,,the mothers were loosing custody once legal aid was cut ,,so the womens groups stepped in to fix that ..,,and the tax payers are footing the bill to prevent fathers from getting to trial
In Alberta legal aid is not free, as it has to be paid back. Lawyers tend to be extremely lazy when it comes to legal aid cases. Apposing lawyers have a lot of fun taking advantage of how slow legal aid lawyers are when going against them.
You will also find that a lot of false accusations come from non-legal aid lawyers, if they know they will be going against a legal aid lawyer. They insist on expensive by the hour supervised access to take place, until the couple is seen by a evaluator. (People who need legal aid cannot afford supervised access.) The lawyer full well knows that it takes a very long time to get the funding in place for the evaluation, because legal aid is slow as molasses, and must approve the funding first. The lawyer knowing full well that an accusing parent is permitted one false accusation before it is considered alienation, they have a chance to set a status quo all at the same time.
This is a scenario that is seen all to much, and this is exactly why shared parenting should be taking place right away, before it gets too ugly. | |
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