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Posted: 5/11/2008 2:51:18 PM | I took nothing personally. I merely used parts of my personal situation to make a point. I can't see what happens to others in the world, but neither can you or the person who wrote that article. Of course some parents and children have been put through hell. Divorces, custody battles..it all sucks and it hurts the children the most. I guess I see now why you are so admant about this whole theroy. You are a victom of it. Then i am sorry you were pushed away from your kids.
My friend just got custody of his daughter..the mother did everything in her power to keep the child from him..he went 2 years without even speaking to the child on the phone, because she either wouldn't answer or wouldn't put her on the phone. He fought in court for two years nd finally got custody awarded to him. He read this article, because I forwarded it to him, and even he says it's crap. She did alot of the things mentioned in there to him. I wanted him to call his lawyer and see what he says for when she takes him back to try to reverse this decision. he said he didn't want his lawyer to laugh him right off the client list.. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/14/2008 7:30:46 PM | Signs of Parental Alienation Syndrome And How to Counteract Its Effects
L.F. Lowenstein
2005
Abstract
Parental alienation or its syndrome as some prefer to call it has numerous signs, chief of which begins with a question: “Why should children who were initially close to both parents suddenly seek to reject one of them?” This tends to occur following an acrimonious separation or divorce. There is a tendency to rely too much on what a child says it wants rather than looking behind the obvious remarks. They are often ‘programmed’ by the alienating parent and this leads to false, frivolous exaggerated criticisms against the other parent. 28 signs of alienation which are not always simultaneously apparent are presented as well as 24 suggestions for remediation.
Signs of Parental Alienation Syndrome And How to Counteract Its Effects
Introduction
What follows will be in two parts. The first part will deal with the signs of parental alienation or what one should look out for when dealing with children, alienators, and the victims of alienation. The second part will concern itself with remedies in dealing with the alienation process.
It must be understood that what the child wants is important but one must be absolutely certain that what the child wants is truly being reflected by what the child says. It must be understood that children who state that they do not want to see a parent, unless there has been proven sexual, physical or emotional abuse, that child should still strongly be encouraged to have contact with the other parent.
Children may state they do not wish to see a parent and those who deal with children in the legal profession and as psychologists and psychiatrists often feel they must listen to the child and concede that what the child wants is right for that child. This is a very wrong way of looking at things. Children often want things for themselves that are not good in the short term as well as the long term. While a major consideration when dealing with the alienation process is to do what is best for the child, we must be careful to understand that children will have reacted in a certain way after a period of alienation by one parent. This then leads to information solely on the basis of what the child feels and thinks should happen. Children who have been alienated or programmed against a parent will often state things that are untrue, exaggerated or frivolous despite having had a good earlier relationship with that parent.
The approach of the therapist in dealing with alienation cases is very different from the psychologist or psychiatrist dealing with a variety of neuroses or psychoses. What is required is to understand that the alienating parent can be, but not necessarily, mentally ill, or evil, or both in the manner in which she deals with the child in order to seek vengeance on a parent who had been close at some point in time. What such parents fail to realise is that they are harming the child both in the short and the long term by depriving that child of a good parent merely because they are angry and wish to get back in a vengeful way against their ex partner. The child is used as a tool in this process. The alienator is not concerned for the welfare of the child but is concerned with their own desire for vengeance against the alienated individual.
Signs of Parental Alienation (PA)
A number of signs or indicators of alienation can be identified. It should be recognised that not all these signs appear in all cases, they are numerous but many will in fact apply to those who alienate children against the non-custodial parent. This unfortunately tends to be the father rather than the mother although increasingly fathers are employing such techniques against mothers also. Whoever uses alienation procedures or brainwashing to get the child to hate the other parent is clearly in the wrong and is guilty of causing harm to the child in the present and the future. There is considerable research indicating the harm that is done to children who are alienated against a parent when they are young. Increasing research has also shown that when they become adults such individuals suffer retrospectively from the damage done by an alienating parent.
What follows will be a number of signs some of which interact with other items and should be viewed not in isolation but in combination in this complex problem of the alienation process:
Lack of independent thinking from the child imitating the alienator’s thoughts and feelings.
Destroying mail or even presents from the alienated parent.
The alienating parent tends to seek to curtail all communication between the child and the alienated parent.
The alienated parent is seen as the scapegoat. He or she is blamed for everything that has gone wrong with the child. There is no sense of ambivalence.
The child calls the alienated parent a liar and other abusive names similar to the alienating parent.
The child insults, shows disrespect, and humiliates the alienated parent often on front of the alienator.
Alienated parents are viewed as being despicable, faulty and deserving of being rejected permanently.
Parents who alienate children are seducing the child emotionally and will continue to do this while in control of the child, yet they deny that they are doing anything but encouraging the child to make contact with the alienated parent.
The child is made to feel guilty for any love shown towards the alienated parent. The child will deny any involvement with the alienated parent, fearful of what the alienator would do to him or her.
The child fears rejection by the programmer in case he or she wishes to say good thing about the alienated parent or wishing to be with him or her.
The child is owned, controlled, and indoctrinated by the alienating parent. That parent is viewed as all good, all wise, and all powerful by the child who becomes dependent, manipulated by them. There is never questioning that what the parent says or does is always right.
The child tends to paraphrase statements used by the alienating parent. The words used are often untypical of words likely to be used by a child. It is very similar to a cult type of indoctrination.
The child suffers from paranoia (hatred) inculcated by the alienating parent who promotes attitudes, intentions, and behaviours of a negative nature to the alienated parent.
The child will speak about exaggerated or contrived abuse that has been experienced from the alienated parent.
The child or alienating parent makes statements insinuating quasi or actual sexual, emotional, and physical abuse suffered by the child.
The language comes indirectly from the alienator such as, “he touches me inappropriately,” or “he has penetrated me,” These are all borrowed scenarios from the alienating parent.
Children who are alienated no longer know truth from lies.
The child who is alienated against the parent will often be alienated against the parent’s family also.
The alienator will also poison the child against the therapist unless the therapist supports the alienator. Hence the therapist is seen as an enemy in the same light as the alienated parent.
It is not what alienator says but how it is said. For example when telling a child “father would like to take you out,” it can be said with joy and enthusiasm indicating positive expectations or it can be said with venom indicating negative feelings. This is what is predominantly communicated to the child rather than the verbal message.
The alienated child tends to see themselves in a very powerful position, especially in the severity of their antagonism shown to the alienated parent. This is all done following the programming by the alienator.
Female alienators will often choose female solicitors as they assume they will be able to identify with them better.
Female alienators are often angry due to the fact that the alienated individual ahs a new relationship, while she has not.
Some alienators move away from where their ex partner resides in order to make visits difficult or impossible.
) Sometimes the name of the child is changed to that of the alienator or the next partner to which the alienator has attached him or herself.
Frivolous reasons are often given for not wanting to be with the alienated parent. Even when told that if these frivolous reasons were removed the child will often claim they do not wish to be with that parent under any circumstances.
The child is encouraged to be with friends or play on video games in preference to being with the alienated parent.
A child who had a history of a good, happy and warm relationship with the now alienated parent before separation or divorce will fail to remember events in the past that made them happy. They may be suffering from amnesia of any good events due to the alienation process.
Ways to Combat Parental Alienation During Mediation and Treatment
There is no easy way to combat alienation especially if it has taken place for a long period of time and the alienated parent has had little contact with the child. One might say the alienator has won and has the complete control of the child in this scenario. The two (the alienator and the child) then are a ‘team’ who work totally against the alienated parent for the purpose of humiliating and rejecting that parent from having contact with the victimised child.
Some of the methods that are recommended for dealing with the process of alienation may seem extreme but it is an extreme situation that one is facing when dealing with the overwhelming power of the alienator. Typical therapeutic methods are ineffective when dealing with such problems. Very firm approaches are required and these must be backed unequivocally by the court in order for them to have an effect in debriefing the victim of the alienation (the child). This sometimes places the therapist in a dangerous situation for he or she may be accused of being to firm in seeking to reverse the alienation effects. A combination of both reason and emotion but most of all firmness must be shown to the child to make them aware of the damage that has and is being done by continuing to live with such a negative attitude towards one parent. This is of course assuming that the alienated parent is innocent of all physical, sexual or emotional abuse.
Again there will be overlap in the suggestions made to reduce the effects of alienation:
Destroy the effects of denigration by one parent towards the other by making the child aware of the happy history before the acrimony and separation between the parents occurred.
Get the child to see the good points about the denigrated parent.
Be firm and proactive in changing attitudes and behaviour that have caused the parental alienation.
Try to get the alienating parent to cooperate in stopping the alienation. This is easier said than done, and many alienators will refuse to cooperate in this although claiming otherwise. This is even the case when it is highlighted that such actions are actually harmful to the child’s development.
Appeal to the child’s conscience that he or she is rejecting, hurting, and humiliating an innocent party who cares for that child.
Have the child together with the alienated parent in due course while seeking to change both attitudes and behaviour via rational emotive therapy. There is a need in this process for very firm communications.
Make the child aware of what a blood relative might sacrifice for that child which is not the case for strangers.
Warn the parent who alienates the child of the harm that they are doing to the child not just in the present time but in the future also.
Appeal to the child’s critical thinking (intelligence and emotions) and make the child aware of the unfairness and cruelty in rejecting a loving parent.
Make the child aware that they need both parents without endangering the relationship with the alienating parent.
Make the child aware that they may lose a good parent if the process of alienation continues.
The child should be made aware that the extended family of the alienated parent is also being unfairly rejected.
Encourage the child not only to engage with the alienated parent but with the alienated parent’s extended family, i.e. grandmother, grandfather, aunts, uncles, etc. This will serve to reverse the alienation process.
Curtail or eliminate telephone calls and other communications from the programming parent while the child is with the non-custodial parent.
It is important for children who have been alienated to spend as much time as is possible with the alienated parent alone so that a relationship can re-develop between them. The longer this individual contact occurs, the greater the likelihood that the alienation process will be depleted.
Curtail the child being used as a spy against the alienated parent.
In the extreme case the child should be removed from the influences of the alienating parent and be given in custody to the alienated parent or another body including a family member. This is to protect the child from further alienation.
Passivity and tolerance are ineffective when dealing with parental alienation. What is required is confrontation of a very powerful type in order to counteract the effects of the alienation and to reverse it.
The power of the court must back the mediator who is seeking to remove the alienation effects
The child may often need to be removed to a neutral setting such as a hospital to prevent further alienation. This is only in very extreme cases where severe psychological damage has been done to such a degree that the child suffers from delusions about the alienated parent.
In the case of severe alienation it is best for the alienated parents never to approach the home of the alienator but rather to use an intermediary for the transfer of contact with the child.
It should be remembered that the child who has been the victim of brain washing needs to know that it is safe to be with the alienated parent without this reducing their loyalty and commitment to the other parent. Hence the alienated parent should do as much as possible to reassure the child that there is no desire to separate the child from their other parent.
Alienated parents once they have contacted their children should concentrate on talking about the past and the happy times together supplemented with pictures or videos. Initially a child could be very offhand and even fail to have eye contact but this can be reduced through reminders of happier times in the past and how this can continue in the future.
Alienated parents should not give up easily but should persevere in their efforts to make and maintain contact with their child. Constant rejection from the child is likely to be humiliating and demoralising, but persistence sometimes leads to success with the help of an expert and the support of the courts.
Both aspects involved in dealing with parental alienation are important but the details are certainly incomplete as there are many other ways of dealing with alienated children as well as their parents. It is important to realise that there is a great difference between therapeutic approaches in the normal sense and those that are required with parents who are alienating a child against another parent. It can not be emphasised too strongly that without the backing of the courts the efforts of the expert involved are unlikely to be effective. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/18/2008 6:00:01 AM | | Im going to be completely honest, unlike many of u, i do no wish for my daughter to have any contact with her father. Yes, i agree there are some fantastic fathers out there, but there are some terrible ones aswell. The day I left the father was the last time he bothered to see my child. I did the right thing and offered mediation and for him to see her every single weekend, but he refused. I believe he wanted shared care so he did not have to work and could have half my money. Now its been 5 months,he hasnt bothered, so he has missed the boat, the door has shut. he did not even bother to send her a card for her 1st birthday. Also, I do not want her calling his new woman "mummy". Ive done the hard work, not him. I will do my best to make sure he never sees her. Sorry if anyone takes offence, but like they say, every case is different | |
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Posted: 5/18/2008 10:02:13 AM | | No offense taken here. Some people are truly sh!tbags, PAS noise notwithstanding, and I wouldn't want MY kids to have any contact with such "people." Problem is, some of them can keep up the façade of humanity long enough to hook someone normal, and involve innocent children. Sad, but true. I've seen far too many of those in the past couple of years. | |
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Posted: 5/18/2008 10:54:53 AM | | I have been a single parent with my oldest child for the first four years, and eventually he wanted a relationship with his dad, which i felt i had to go along with. My doubts about his father where justified, when on countless occasions, we stood waiting for him to pick my son up, and he would either not turn up or be an hour late. This broke my son heart and went on for several years, my sons self esteem is damaged and he has emotional difficulties. I wish i had kept him completely away from him. He is now much happier, havin taken the decision himself to not see his father since he was ten, hes 14 now, but in think it forced him to have to grow up to quickly, and ive been left to deal with his insecurities. | |
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Posted: 5/18/2008 11:57:37 AM | Sorry things are that way for you and your son. It is just not right for any parent to do that to a child. Not all parents are as you describe. There are those of us who desire more than anything in life to share life with our children and face great battles in effort to do so.
Kenny | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/19/2008 4:09:01 AM | Cherri22,
I am one of those who do not agree with what you have done.
Why did you not go down the road of shared parenting?
How do you know it is only about the money?
Have you considered that he will need some of the money to help care for his daughter as well?
Also, the fact that you only speak of 'your' daughter, says volumes to me.
There are so many fathers out there who cannot be a 'good-time' Dad, because it simply breaks their hearts.
Yes, Cherri22 I can safely say that everytime a father loses a child of his, or all of his children, he suffers the same pain and suffering that any mother would if she lost her children under similar circumstances.
And here is a newsflash:
There is no such thing as the maternal bond being stronger than the paternal bond.
That is a furphy put out by the radical feminists, so they can convince themselves as well as other women and policy/law makers, that Mum knows best and that the kiddies are far better off residing with their Mum. Well, that is the lie that we have all lived under for over 30 years and during that time millions of children in the western world have been kidnapped from their fathers and the vast majority have grown up into dysfunctional adults in one way or another.
You say you don't want your daughter calling her stepmother Mommy. Why on earth are you afraid of that?
Furthermore, you have no right to interfere with that relationship!
If you treat your child with love and also promote her father and stepmother to her and show that there is not bad feelings coming from you, there is not a snow balls chance in hell, that any human being in existence will ever replace you as 'Mommy', irrespective of what your girl calls this other woman.
You're it and no one will ever make the grade as far as your daughter is concerned.
Well, that is unless you keep on your present path.
You see, for as long as you deny your daughter equal access, love and care from her father and continue to allow this alienation from her father to continue, eventually you are the parent who will suffer the most. I have seen it happen many times and even though it usually takes many years to occur, the offending or alienating parent often ends up a lonely bitter twisted old person, with no grandchildren to dote on.
You should reconsider your position and attitude toward your ex and give the shared parenting thing a real good try and encourage your daughter to give it a good try.
And yes, I fully expect to get a broadside from a few people on this subject. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/19/2008 5:23:39 PM |
Yes, Cherri22 I can safely say that everytime a father loses a child of his, or all of his children, he suffers the same pain and suffering that any mother would if she lost her children under similar circumstances.
here's the only real issue I have with your post. the rest of your post is merely opinion and repetition on what was already stated.. I point out this line, becuase it is not correct. not every PARENT suffers any pain or anguish over walking away from thier kids. Perhaps the pertitent word in your statement is father. I suppose a true father would be hurt to lose his children (or mother), but a sperm or egg donor will not. you cannot say that all parents feel this way. they don't. lots are more then happy to go on with thier lives, forgetting they even have children they are supposed to take care of.. | |
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Posted: 5/19/2008 6:33:32 PM | The man said "loses a child of his, or all of his children." He did not say "throws his child or children away". No one sad one word about walking away from their kids. If that is what happened in your situation we more than get it. What we are trying to say in this thread is there are a very large number of parents who want to have a life with their children but some very sick and twisted criminals do everything possible to prevent that. Then they sit back and say, "Well I offered and they refused" That is such BS. They offer in the public eye but when it comes right down to providing access there is not a chance in H*** that it is going to happen. A person who abandons their children for no just cause is just as big a criminal as those who Alienate. They should all be jailed and in time it may be so.
Kenny | |
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Posted: 5/19/2008 7:10:28 PM | An article from GlobeandMail.com
Canada
CUSTODY BATTLE: DEPROGRAMMING PARENTAL ALIENATION
Mother wins child brainwashing case
Boy can be sent to U.S. facility to undo father's bid to instill hatred
By KIRK MAKIN
Friday, May 16, 2008 Page A1
JUSTICE REPORTER -- A 13-year-old boy whose domineering father systematically brainwashed him into hating his mother can be flown against his will to a U.S. facility that deprograms children who suffer from parental alienation, an Ontario Superior Court judge has ruled.
Mr. Justice James Turnbull ordered the boy - identified only as LS - into his mother's custody. He said the boy urgently needs professional intervention to reverse the father's attempt to poison his mind toward his mother and, in all probability, to women in general.
"There will probably be future significant problems experienced by LS if the court does not intervene - including significant personal guilt for his part in the rejection of his mother, anger towards women, and dysfunctional relationships with women," Judge Turnbull said.
The judge flatly refused to take the boy's opinion on the therapy into account, saying that LS cannot exercise "free discretion in expressing his views" because of the influence his father has had on him.
Judge Turnbull observed that the father, 54, has repeatedly breached court orders granting the mother limited access to her son. He said the boy has come to perceive himself and his father as "intertwined and unable to distinguish one's thoughts from the other."
As part of his campaign of absolute control, the father dictated toxic e-mails for LS to send to his mother.
The father also removed photographs of the mother from her son's bedroom.
Judge Turnbull also noted that in 2005, the father pursued an assault charge against the mother. As a result, LS, at the age of 10, was required to testify against her in criminal court.
"Frankly, the exercise of such parental indiscretion stuns this court," Judge Turnbull said, adding that the mother was acquitted.
Jeffery Wilson, the mother's lawyer, said yesterday that the case is a breakthrough for parents attempting to win back children who have been intentionally alienated from them.
"This is a precedent in Canada - the first time a Canadian court has recognized the lack of resources to deal with the disease of parental alienation and answered it with a private remedy - the Family Workshop for Alienated Children," Mr. Wilson said.
"The age of a child is no reason to justify a lost opportunity to know and benefit from both of the child's parents," he added.
In his ruling, Judge Turnbull praised the work of the FWAC and urged the Ontario government to encourage similar programs.
According to evidence at the hearing from Dr. Richard Warshak, a founder of the FWAC, many children are so set against participating in a program that reunites them with a hated parent that they have to be transported by police or probation officers - sometimes in restraints.
"In the case at bar, Dr. Warshak has suggested that LS would travel to the United States with transport agents on one flight, and his mother would follow closely on another flight," Judge Turnbull noted in his ruling.
Dr. Warshak said that sessions focus on teaching children to assess their domestic situation critically, and to appreciate that both of their parents are essential to their well-being.
Sessions lean heavily on video presentations, intensive discussion with psychologists, and opportunities for the child and his or her alienated parent to interact.
Upon returning home, children receive after-care from a local psychologist. After several months, the child is usually ready to commence a relationship with the parent who caused the alienation.
The parents in the LS case married in 1982 and separated in 2005. LS was placed in the primary custody of his father, a salesman.
The father changed phone numbers, ignored e-mails and left the mother - a 49-year-old who works in public relations - with no alternative but to drive to arenas where her son's sports teams were playing in hopes of getting a glimpse of him.
The mother launched court action last year in an attempt to win sole custody of the boy. After a nine-day hearing last fall, Judge Turnbull reserved his decision.
He said that an e-mail the mother received in late 2006 was indicative of the father's control over the boy. "I don't want to see you and I never will want to see you ever again and who do you think you are to say my dad makes my distions (sic)," it said. "I MAKE MY DISITIONS. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. If I want to see your side of the family, I will call them."
A child psychiatrist who assessed the father, Dr. George Award, said in a report that he was a mistrustful, autocratic woman-hater who "built a demonic image" of his ex-wife and turned his son into his entire social life. | |
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Posted: 5/19/2008 8:29:39 PM | To NotInnocent!
Yes as was stated by Kenny (ksr61), I said and meant 'lose'!
And yes I did say 'Father', because anyone be they male or female who abandons a biological child of their's for no good reason, are not a mother or father's bootlace and as Kenny stated, they are nothing but abusive criminals and should be in prison along with all the parents who choose to commit the most hienous form of child abuse, alienation.
It is pretty obvious that some male did the dirty on you, because you come across as one very bitter woman.
I cannot do anything to help you in your cause, except to say that the vast majority of men/fathers are not scum and those who have kids are desperate to enjoy every minute they can with the kids. However, society and all it's pressures prevent this from happening.
If it is such a bother to all the women/mothers out there with staying home and playing Mom, then why don't they get a job that pays good money and offer to do the paid work and let the father stay home and look after the kids.
I'll bet for as long as my backside points to the ground, there would be a mass walk out of men from jobs so they could look after their kids and enjoy the social life.
Running a household is such an easy thing to do if you are organised and stick to a routine. I do it for 1 child fulltime and then 3 others 40% (soon to be 50%) and I am disabled. Fancy that!
I do all the washing, ironing, cleaning and cooking. Take them to sport and dancing, to Church on Sundays, and am there for them to talk to when they have problems, because they cannot talk to their mother; she is indifferent to the children's emotional needs.
My kids rarely get fast food crap, they get really great food, they live in a very clean house and have clean clothes and comfortable warm beds. They all sleep like logs and are hard to wake in the morning.
Yet, at their mothers house, the 3 younger kids live in a filthy pig stye, eat only moderate quality food and too much crap, have nightmares most nights and are always tired with black under their eyes.
Their mother is lazy and never cleans anything in the house. The toilet stinks, the cat urinates in the bath and climbs on the kitchen table and benches where the food is prepared.
Just the sort of story that would easily make me vomit and my poor kids are suffering this when they go back to her.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share that little bit of information with you guys, because when my 3 younger kids get their 50/50, they will have so much more time with me where they will be fed better and be mostly settled and emotionally/psychologically supported. | |
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Posted: 5/20/2008 8:35:28 AM | Some of the people who post in these threads exemplify the nature of the problem at hand so much better than any book or entire library of books and studies on patholigies.
p-trishTHEdish wrote:
NO KIDDING! DUH...PAY ATTENTION!...YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THE TWO...PAS, is a crock of $hit! and the man who coined that nonsence was a nut job who offed himself. you lot want the rest of us to buy into that notion.
Respectfully, man people said the same thing about the father (sorry to use that term as I know your skin crawels at it) of modern psychotherapy, Sigmund Freud.
Freud suffered hellious addictions to cocaine and cigars and in one fit of cocain intoxication ran over a little boy in the road - but we have not thrown the baby out with the bath water and refused to benefit from psychotherapy.
And whether we like it or not - courts all across the country are hearing fathers argue parental alienation syndrome and awarding custody to fathers as a result of it.
Having worked with social workers in Child Protective Services, I can tell you that all geovernmental agencies, when they hear about PAS take it very seriously and mothers all throughout the nation are facing jail time as this is being written due to CONTEMPT OF COURT via PAS.
pardon me, but no,, im not gonna support a notion built by a man who wanted to make it acceptable to have sex with children. no reasonable human being would support that bull!
1. You demonstrate your own abject condition of mind by making such vitriolic statements.
2. Because your statements are false and damaging you run the serious risk of being investigated to determine your true identity and brought up on charges in a civil suite by the estate of Dr. Gardner for liable and defamation of character.
There is not evidance to support you characther assasination of the Doctor and further I find it beyond reprehensible that you would even take it there.
You need to get a past time beside polluting these threads because you are going to get yourself in trouble and this website shut down - for good.
unfortunately, we cant all live in DISNEYWORLD!
You appear to be operating in a fuge state with little to no grip on reality. | |
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Posted: 5/20/2008 10:37:41 AM | HEY LASHANDRA,, first off,
my statements are not false,, READ THE FLIPPIN LINK THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE POST,, THE UNBIASED DOCUMENTED LINKS.
the ones the op is using are completely and utterly single mindedly biased.
the man who came up with this whole PAS crap included in that "SYNDROME" did in fact see pedophilia and parent child sexual interecourse as normal. The idiot went so far as to say children are the ones to blame for the sex because they seduce their parents into the act.
NUMBER 2 IN YOUR POST IS JUST HILLARIOUS! mostly because no one can be convicted of slander or defimation of character, for clipping a link then paraphrasing what it said.
if all this website can do is support the notions of ppl like the op and gardner, then it deserves to be shut down and quick, by the feds.
having worked myself with parent advocacy groups and with child advocacy groups i can promise you that no one worth their eye teeth in the field takes the findings and notions of an admitted sexual deviant seriously, nor do they take anyone who agrees with this horrific notions seriously. we actually investigate them for wrong doing. I have seen clinical and msw's lose their liscenses over this crap!
PAS is a stray bullet. It is irresponsible, and irrational.
now,, if you want to talk about the act of alienating a child that is always about parents who are not abiding by court orders, then we can talk. These parents are held in contept of court for not following the order. but as a "syndrome" PAS doesnt exist.
"Having worked with social workers in Child Protective Services, I can tell you that all geovernmental agencies, when they hear about PAS take it very seriously and mothers all throughout the nation are facing jail time as this is being written due to CONTEMPT OF COURT via PAS."
finally the truth comes out and is declared,, THIS IS A WOMAN BASHING FORUM! i guess its true, give someone enough rope and eventually they will hang themselves.
to be clear, you cant be certain that this entire thread has not already made its way into the hands of the FEDS.
p.s. governmental isn't spelled g-o-e-v-e-r-n-m-e-n-t-a-l.
ya might wanna watch that as you make idle threats from behind a computer keyboard. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/20/2008 10:51:39 PM | It seems as though we have two definite camps with opposing views with regard the existence or otherwise of Parental Alienation Syndrome in children who have been abused by an adult to turn them against another parent.
p-trish stated that she finally has seen or worked out that this site is definitely a woman bashing site and condemned lashandra for committing this crime.
I have to say it appears to me that from that statement and others made by p-trish, it appears fairly obvious that she is a member of the 'sisterhood'; a radical femenist.
This is a typical response from a radical feminist; as soon as an argument has gone too much against them they scream discrimination and thus try to force the shut down of any and all dialog with regard that particular subject etc.
People who are like this always put up smoke screens to take the heat of themselves and will continue to slam every person who criticises them from that point on.
Which of course will include this post and me!
I personally do not see this site as being a 'woman bashing' site. On the contrary, with some of the discussion topics, I was a little concerned it may have been a male bashing site. However, I am the kind of man who really doesn't give a toss and if I find a topic worth commenting on and I feel so inclined, then I will make a comment.
I think we have lost the meaning of this thread, which from what I have read was to do with equal shared parenting and how it is by a country mile, the best option for children when a marriage breaks down. Obviously, if there are any circumstances that can be put forward as reasons why a child should not be with a parent, then that will always be taken into account, so that the child is kept safe. But the default position for families where there are no problems with the parents, should always be 50/50 shared parenting for the children and 50/50 of any money paid out by govts.
If the mothers have work skills and experience, then they should be told to go get a job so they can contribute financially and they can do this during the time they don't have the kids. If that can't be done, there are other ways around it.
I think we need to either keep on subject and stop the scathing attacks, or simply scrap the thread.
It is very, very obvious that there are vested interests (radical feminists), getting involved in this forum, just to stir up trouble with the view of forcing the shutdown of the thread or even the site.
Just my thoughts! | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/20/2008 10:57:29 PM | Oh, boy. Here we go again.
57, do you try to put fires out by pouring gasoline on them? You'd have the same luck as you'll have getting Trish to calm down by calling her names. Brace yourself. You're about to be sassed.
And by the way, I've decided that Trish doesn't really disagree with the premise of this thread. When she shares how she thinks things should be, it's not much different than the original petition that started this thread.
She just doesn't like us. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 12:07:41 AM | I have to say it appears to me that from that statement and others made by p-trish, it appears fairly obvious that she is a member of the 'sisterhood'; a radical femenist.
feminist??? laughable. I never said anything about discrimination. where do you come up with this crap??
this thread is about a guy who wants to promote some notion authored by a sexual deviant with a phd.
anyone who suppports this PAS crap also supports sexually abusing a child because thats what the man who authored it had included in his "syndrome" | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 12:17:59 AM |
Problem is, some of them can keep up the façade of humanity long enough to hook someone normal, and involve innocent children. Sad, but true.
I agree. Sad AND true. Sociopaths often fly under the radar... | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 1:59:36 AM | I have read all of the posts on this thread. I have looked at the website the OP put in his origional thread and I also scanned a few of the links off that site.
There is always a simple soloution to shared parenting....it's called two mature adults who can put the best interest of the kids first.
Ideally kids need both parents.. they also need Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles..etc...etc..
Our kids learn how to be productive in society as adults through the examples and role models that adults model for them.
I think the PAS syndrome is nothing more than an excuse for either parent to use as justification for their own personal behaviour.
It took me awhile to realize that every negative action my ex made caused me to react negatively in return. It took a little longer for me to realize that by not reacting to the negative actions from my ex, it actually gave me more control over my own personal circumstances.
If any parent feels like their child is in serious danger when their ex spouse has physical custody of the child(ren) they need to make aggressive steps to protect that child(ren). That goes without saying though dosen't it?
Having a little perception of how the other parent is feeling goes a long way to being successful with a shared parenting agreement.
The true facts about what shared parenting consists of 3 things.
1. There is never a 50/50 split of responsibility regarding the kids every month. Some months Mom does more and some months Dad does more....and nobody keeps score.
2. Cooperation with the kids scheduales. Being considerate and flexible is important when both parents are working.
3. Communication with your ex is imperative to shared parenting.
Have respect for your child's Mom or Dad. I wonder why people can't remember who their ex was..before they became an ex spouse.
It's not easy to do...but then again..it's not easy to wage a crusade that entails being the lead victim...err...I meant being the lead role!
Both commitments take up a great deal of energy. Being angry is alot more tiring though. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 8:09:06 AM |
The true facts about what shared parenting consists of 3 things.
1. There is never a 50/50 split of responsibility regarding the kids every month. Some months Mom does more and some months Dad does more....and nobody keeps score.
2. Cooperation with the kids scheduales. Being considerate and flexible is important when both parents are working.
3. Communication with your ex is imperative to shared parenting.
Have respect for your child's Mom or Dad. I wonder why people can't remember who their ex was..before they became an ex spouse.
It's not easy to do...but then again..it's not easy to wage a crusade that entails being the lead victim...err...I meant being the lead role!
Both commitments take up a great deal of energy. Being angry is alot more tiring though.
THE VOICE OF REASON. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 1:49:52 PM | p-dish wrote:
...YOUR POST IS JUST HILLARIOUS! mostly because no one can be convicted of slander or defimation of character, for clipping a link then paraphrasing what it said.
I am well aware of what a Doctor's estate is capable of doing to defend their interests against the ill-informed LIABLE of some nobody with an axe to grind who resorts to posting liablous remarks defaming the character of this Doctor.
I am also well aware of the fact that anyone can sue anyone for anything and it all comes down to how the judge finds in their ruling as to the punitive damages and possible santions - but really P - who has the money, time and constitution to endure a 3 year grind of back-breaking litigation just to find out at the end of the road that it was a fight that never had to be fought?
Besides the Anti Defamation Legaue and American Civil Liberties Union, that is.
if all this website can do is support the notions of ppl like the op and gardner, then it deserves to be shut down and quick, by the feds.
TRANSLATION - if you aren't free to irresponsibly post liablous bullshit about topics that you are totally ignorant of then why not pull the plug for everyone? Hey look everyone we have a "IF I can't have you - nobody can" on our hands.
having worked myself with parent advocacy groups and with child advocacy groups i can promise you that no one worth their eye teeth in the field takes the findings and notions of an admitted sexual deviant seriously
What parent and child advocacy groups? Name them P - are they PO Boxes with telephone machines on 24-7? Because lets get one thing clear - no parent advocacy or child advocacy group would ever work with you longer than it took them to realize how dangerously deluded and rage-drunk you are.
You would pull the plug on this website becuase of our imaginary grudge you hold with a Doctor you have deluded yourself into thinking you know something about - You would deny a child their right to their parents becuase of God knows what imaginary axe you think to grind - you aren't a very pleasent or balanced person P.
I have seen clinical and msw's lose their liscenses over this crap!
No you haven't - post a link to an article about that - which you won't do becuase you probably don't have any knowledge of anything of the sort.
PAS is a stray bullet. It is irresponsible, and irrational.
An yet I know of over a dozen cases of contempt of court adjudications which have resulted in the fathers being given sole custody of the child and the mothers being hit with HUGE fines and sacntions AS A DIRECT RESULT of the father's filing PAS as the CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCE leading to the fathers filing CUSTODY MODIFICATION with CONTEMPT charges.
http://www.parental-alienation-awareness.com/
These parents are held in contept of court for not following the order. but as a "syndrome" PAS doesnt exist.
Actually that is a complete fabrication on your part because the way it's done is to file for a custody modification order, with PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME as the condition of EMOTIONAL ABUSE which the child has been subjected to and it is a sure fire way for bitter moms like you to lose your children to the parent better suited to care for them - THE FATHER!
finally the truth comes out and is declared,, THIS IS A WOMAN BASHING FORUM!
FINALLY THE TRUTH COME OUT? If placing the needs of the kids first while speaking the truth is "bashing" then I never hid my enjoyment of bashing someone like you. I don't know if I could safely call it "woman" bashing though.
i guess its true, give someone enough rope and eventually they will hang themselves.
DO YOU PROMISE!?!
to be clear, you cant be certain that this entire thread has not already made its way into the hands of the FEDS.
I am banking on it!
defamation: A false statement that injures someone's reputation and exposes him to public contempt, hatred, ridicule, or condemnation. If the false statement is published in print or through broadcast media, such as radio or TV, it is called libel. If it is only spoken, it is called slander.
libel: An untruthful statement about a person, published in writing or through broadcast media, that injures the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because libel is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. Libel is a form of defamation , as is slander (an untruthful statement that is spoken, but not published in writing or broadcast through the media). | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 2:26:56 PM | p-trishTHEdish wrote:
this thread is about a guy who wants to promote some notion authored by a sexual deviant with a phd. anyone who suppports this PAS crap also supports sexually abusing a child because thats what the man who authored it had included in his "syndrome"
Actually sweetheart, your posts do look like defamation of character, and I guess the estate of the doctor could come after you once they find out your true identity.
http://parental-alienation.com/ceu_teleclass.htm
5 Hours of CLE
Has been accredited by the California Bar, Connecticut Bar, Florida Bar,
Georgia Bar, North Carolina Bar, Minnesota Bar, New York Bar
Continuing Legal Education (CLE)
Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS)
PRESENTED BY: J. MICHAEL BONE, Ph.D. and ROBERT A. EVANS, Ph.D.
Course Sponsor: A Center for Human Potential
Course Number: 7150 4
Course Credit: 5 CLE's, Mental Health Awareness
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