| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 5:07:42 PM | For those who have been infected with a certain Narcissist Sociopath Virus which continues to lurk in this thread; please visit Posts 235 and 289 of this thread as a minimum. There are several other posts with factual information which further decimate the Virus' attack on ones thought process. This Virus I speak of is very dangerous and a bubble bath does little to thwart it's growth. Just remeber, if you agree with something good, this dangerous Virus will hate you with a passion. Do not let the Virus get to you. Ignoring it is the best cure.
Kenny
Kenny | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 5:52:34 PM | Libel: a slanderous statement, damaging misrepresentation.
Liable: propensity, susceptibility, legally responsible.
PAS exists whether perpetrated by men or women but each case must be evaluated on its merits because there is sometimes a fine line between it and a conscientious parent's attempt to protect their child even when unfounded if the parent truly believes the child is at risk and the actions are not instead motivated by hatred and pettiness.
My childrens' father has inflicted a great deal of emotional damage and while I do not badmouth him I do wonder if I am failing my children by not pushing for no contact or supervised visitation. At this point it remains their decision and unfortunately whether I am right or wrong in this only time will tell.
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/21/2008 6:48:55 PM | No such thing as PAS??
Then what brought about the following?
To date, we've had :
FOURTEEN US Proclamations and Recognitions
TWO Canadian Proclamations
and ONE International Proclamation
recognizing April 25th as Parental Alienation Awareness Day.
Click below to view the proclamations/recognitions:
• Alabama - Governor Riley
• Arkansas - Governor Beebe
• Connecticut - Governor Rell
• Florida - Governor Crist
• Georgia - Governor Perdue
• Indiana - Governor Daniels
• Iowa - Governor Vilsack
• Kentucky - Governor Fletcher
• Maine - Governor Baldacci
• Maryland - Governor O'Malley
• Mississippi - Governor Barbour
• Montana - Governor Schweitzer (recognition)
• Nebraska - Governor Heineman
• West Virginia - Governor Manchin
• Edmonton, Alberta - Mayor Mandel
• Oakville, Ontario - Mayor Burton
• The Islands of BERMUDA | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:17:16 AM | On 5/21/2008 packagedealx3 write:
Libel: a slanderous statement, damaging misrepresentation. Liable: propensity, susceptibility, legally responsible.
Good Point!
PAS exists...
GREAT Point! | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/22/2008 6:20:31 AM | On 5/21/2008 ksr61 wrote:
No such thing as PAS?? Then what brought about the following? To date, we've had : FOURTEEN US Proclamations and Recognitions TWO Canadian Proclamations and ONE International Proclamation recognizing April 25th as Parental Alienation Awareness Day. Click below to view the proclamations/recognitions: • Alabama - Governor Riley • Arkansas - Governor Beebe
• Connecticut - Governor Rell • Florida - Governor Crist • Georgia - Governor Perdue
• Indiana - Governor Daniels • Iowa - Governor Vilsack • Kentucky - Governor Fletcher • Maine - Governor Baldacci • Maryland - Governor O'Malley
• Mississippi - Governor Barbour • Montana - Governor Schweitzer (recognition)
• Nebraska - Governor Heineman • West Virginia - Governor Manchin • Edmonton, Alberta - Mayor Mandel • Oakville, Ontario - Mayor Burton • The Islands of BERMUDA
GEE, I GUESS YOU WERE RIGHT - I GUESS IT DOES EXIST !
PAS = Parental Alienation Syndrome / EMOTIONAL ABUSE OF THE CHILD! | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/22/2008 10:17:43 AM | Actually sweetheart, your posts do look like defamation of character, and I guess the estate of the doctor could come after you once they find out your true identity.
YOU ARE FRIGGIN HILLARIOUS,,, A THREAT,, FROM BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN?? LMAO,
not only are you not original, your not even capable.
if you are seriously that worried about my "true identity" (not like its some big state secret or anything) but if you were so worried about it,, why dont you inform them of the thread, i seriously doubt it would be of much interest.
the estate of the doctor??funny you should bring that up,, his son, the officially named executor, is the one who posted the website i clipped from.
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/22/2008 7:40:27 PM | The shared parenting "haters" have gotten wind of this poll on Detro
Posted by: "Robert Pedersen" robertpedersen@ robertpedersen. net
fatherachildsrighto rg
Wed May 21, 2008 7:45 pm (PDT)
http://info.detnews.com/redesign/forums/feedback/lettersindex.cfm?
Vote ASAP on this Detroit News Poll it takes two seconds and requires
no account. Just visit and click "yes". | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/22/2008 11:35:10 PM | | I think the idea of shared parenting is rediculous. If they were able to pull that off, they would most likely still be married. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/23/2008 5:30:14 AM | On 5/22/2008 p-trishTHEdish wrote:
YOU ARE FRIGGIN HILLARIOUS,,, A THREAT,, FROM BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN?? LMAO
If I may point out, respectfully, that your overinflated sense of self-importance is not shared here by anyone but yourself. And you make it very clear with your vitriolic divel that you believe that you are free to attack whomever wherever with impunity.
This you have made clear. However, I believe you dramatically overstate (what would with anyone else) be a point ot discussion when you manufacture that you percieve a threat.
not only are you not original, your not even capable.
You want to know whats original? I am capable and willing, however, I first must remind p-TrishTHEdish that, while assuming that I or anyone cares what she thinks about anyone else's originality - she overstates her paranoid delusion that she warrants anyone attacking her.
Basically, nobody cares and I think that is why she rails so hard against everyone who isn't pandering to her infantile and meaningless persona.
if you are seriously that worried about my "true identity" (not like its some big state secret or anything) but if you were so worried about it,, why dont you inform them of the thread, i seriously doubt it would be of much interest.
What makes you think that " I " am "worried" about your "true" identity? As far as I am concerned yo have no true identity. Who is the "them" you are referring to? Clean up your act a little before posting because you are starting to sound like someone who is unravelling.
the estate of the doctor??funny you should bring that up,, his son, the officially named executor, is the one who posted the website i clipped from.
To be fair, you have been documented as doing significantly more than clipping from websites and you render yourself culpable through your additional commentary which you have posted repeatedly in attack on The Doctor, his work, and frankly his good name. These were YOUR commentary which you added (much like the crowd who cheers and cojoles a rappist is found to own accountability in the rape).
the estate of the doctor??funny you should bring that up,, his son, the officially named executor, is the one who posted the website i clipped from.
Whomever is the execotor to the estate of The Doctor is not so important as the team of legal experts charged by the state of The Doctor with the task of investigating, litigating and seeking prosecutoral measures wherever libel occurs in the media in conjunction with the good name of The Doctor.
I know - you didn't think about all that while you were siting in your isolation and basking in the glow of your only friend the computer from behind the which you wage your psychotic war against men, fathers, and anyone who dares to disagree with you by presenting facts.
If, once we get past all yoru noise, your question was "could the authorities once invoked by the team of legal experts working on behalf of The Doctor's estate, gain an injunction against Markus Frind, the owner of this webiste, and compell him to release the type of data you put into the site when you set up your account, along with your IP address - so that these same authorities could then in turn submit them to the courts...
Yes. I suppose they could. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/23/2008 5:44:36 AM | ksr61 wrote -
Please take a few minutes to do something for our children and the future of our country. Visit this link and sign the "Shared Parenting Petition" http://www.acfc.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage Forward the link to everyone you know and ask them to do the same.Thanks to all who do. Kenny
Hey Kenny - good work on pointing this stuff out to people.
How about the fact that The State of Texas just released the children taken by CPS from the parents of the polygamist ranch because there was not a "clear and immediate danger" to the children?
This is the same type of language being used in enforcing the presumption of shared parenting - that unless there is a clear and immediate danger to the child there should be no order made limiting fathers access to the child.
If this whole polygamist scandel actually yields legislative change which can in turn be used by the movement toward shared parenting - at least something productive will have come from it.
bcsofnc57 : Please No More Relationships!!! | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/23/2008 8:57:45 AM | My goodness. This thread is about sharing parenting responsibilities. This lead to a discussion of PAS, which is relevant to sharing parenting responsibilities. Next came a debate of Dr. Gardner's work, and next websites that describe his work. Are we really now discussing legal issues of libel? Whether posters have friends?
Some just need to take a deep breath. This is a thread about parents working together rather than excluding each other. Anything else is off topic. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/23/2008 10:26:46 AM | guynamejeff wrote:
My goodness. This thread is about sharing parenting responsibilities. This lead to a discussion of PAS, which is relevant to sharing parenting responsibilities. Next came a debate of Dr. Gardner's work, and next websites that describe his work. Are we really now discussing legal issues of libel? Whether posters have friends?
Right you are gaynamejeff. Thanks for redirecting our attention back to the topic at hand. Some people just need to learn the hard way.
p-trishTHEdish 49 - User closed account May 23 2008
Just flexing The Power of The Pen. If they fold this easily on a message board, you can imagine how they tumble when you put them on the stand in a custody challange which they are ill equiped to deal with emotionally.
Some just need to take a deep breath. This is a thread about parents working together rather than excluding each other. Anything else is off topic.
This thread is here for the discussion of SHARED PARENTING and anyone wanting to libel, slander, or in any other way attack should be prepared to back their non-sense up or pack it up like p-trishTHEdish.
See my thread CHILD-CENTERED SINGLE PARENTS. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:28:16 AM | ksr61
I did look at the poll. I also read the discussion board on that site. There is no clear "yes" or "no" answer to the question about shared parenting. I didn't vote.
Is shared parenting the best thing for the child(ren)?
Yes..but only if the intentions are genuine with both parents.
That kind of commitment is not something that two people who have decided to divorce can easily manage. It takes time to have a amicable joint custody agreement in most cases. Most importantly...it takes commitment and alot of biting of the tounge on the parents part..for awhile anyway.
By lending credibility to this new "syndrome" creates bigger problems for the court system than exist now.
This is one of your comments from post #158 on PAS....
>>It is a very effective legal device for getting custody. There are
two reasons for this. First the Children Act of 1989 took more
consideration of 'the child's wishes', and secondly the Child Support
Agency separated the issues of court orders for maintenance and
contact.>>>
Finacial gain of child support should be no kind of a motive to obtain primary custody for the CP, just as it should not be the motive of a NCP who wants joint custody to reduce child support payments.
anbother comment from mssg #158
>>>There are two distinct aspects of PAS; medical and legal. Medically
PAS is a form of emotional child abuse. Parents in hostile
separations typically suffer depression, anger, and aggression. The
expression of these feelings takes on the form of withdrawing love
and communication. This extends to the children via the custodial
parent.>>>
^^the above statement from your man group tells me that this group is more interested in placing blame than comprimising any soloutions. It sounds like a bit of a "How to get what you want" advice handbook for Father's who are too pissed off to make the actual commitment of entering into a shared parenting relationship with their ex spouse.
PAS is just a new title for parents who emotionally abuse their children in a divorce.
Apparently by adding the word "syndrome" to an old problem seems to give it more credibility in court and opens the doors for lawyers to manipulate the new diagnosis to thier clients advantage.
It took a long time for me and my ex to develop an amicable relationship after our divorce. It took even longer for us to be able to communicate with each other so that our boys could have open access to either parent when they wanted.
I am going for surgery on Monday..and my ex has offered....YES...offered to take the boys for the week so I can rest. We have mutual consideration for each other again.
It isn't instant for most seperating couples...it takes effort...and I can see alot of energy on some posters part that would be better channeled by making a commitment to developing an open dialogue with the CP rather than waging a crusade in a movement that dosen't specifically adress any issues of what it takes to have a shared parenting arrangement. Hate the mother, than you punish the child. Punish the Father than you punish the child. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/24/2008 6:14:05 AM | But there in lies the problem because you are doing the exact same thing a lawyer would do in that you dismiss this "syndrome as just that a way for people to still have the ability to lie in court without consequence.
I have read some of the links and I do not feel that this defence is aplicable in all cases but you cannot deny its existance. Putting one's hand on a bible and swearing "I" won't lie just doesn't seem to work. So what are we left with?
In all though it is sad that the sheer numbers of divorce are happening in the first place. There are some interesting trends that I came accross that summized that as a nation's female population income increases so does the divorce rate.
So for thirty years or so we have been merely trying to fix these problems after the fact and not before. With most of the advantages being on the side of women.
Both genders are to blame for this. All those alpha males who spread their seed wherever and often have to be stopped. And for the females who with their new found freedom who unfortunately fall for those same alphas and not protect themselves against pregnancy .
As we can see from all the emotional displays put forth in these forums that we are so far away from being able to calmly "work " things out, couple that with the financial strains we are all under we have to go into the whole child bearing process with a new set of rules or this will just continue. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:14:38 AM |
In all though it is sad that the sheer numbers of divorce are happening in the first place. There are some interesting trends that I came accross that summized that as a nation's female population income increases so does the divorce rate.
So for thirty years or so we have been merely trying to fix these problems after the fact and not before. With most of the advantages being on the side of women.
Both genders are to blame for this. All those alpha males who spread their seed wherever and often have to be stopped. And for the females who with their new found freedom who unfortunately fall for those same alphas and not protect themselves against pregnancy .
Interesting that you discuss how both genders are to blame yet you only state in your post that the alpha males need stopping? I would also question the statement that woman with their new found freedoms are falling for those alpha's as I always felt that woman were very capable of making concise and educated choices and to marginalize or trivialize poor choices as falling for alpha's would suggest that woman are incapable of finding their own way successfully without falling over the alpha male as lowering the ability of woman. I always understood woman should be granted the respect like anyone else upright as an equal individual as opposed to your making allowances or accomodations for their being on their backs once they swoon for that alpha. But perhaps you meant something else when you said falling for the alpha?
The reality is people often make poor choices in life. Sometimes the poor choices start early in life and others are later borne perhaps out of a failed relationship. But whether we make good or poor choices in life we have to be prepared to accept and live with the responsibilities of those choices and not look at always placing people as victims which excuses their actions yesterday and excuses them from doing today what they can do for themselves.
But as we have seen on this forum and other some hysterical rantings as the topic reaches and crosses some difficult ground. But with interest I note that someone who claimed no fear of prosecution has removed her photo or identification? Perhaps she just wants to find a newer picture of herself to show they can stand behind what they6 state. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:41:36 AM | I was reading an article not to long ago in which one of the authors suggested some sort of accounatability process being developed to hold those who take part (the seed and the egg producers) in bringing a child into this world. Several of those interviewed seemed to completly believe that such process was currently in existance. Some did not seem to care, stating they would never cause such a situation. Some said the current systems needed to be brought up to the modern social level. There were various other suggestions as well.
What do some of you think about this part of our social delema? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/24/2008 12:53:31 PM | The alpha male will develop a greater skill at closing women into doing the deed. The reasoning behind this is that because of his natural good looks he will be approached more often than an average looking guy will.
I think dealing with the art of seduction becomes easier and easier for those males. It is a skill much like sales. It can be learned . This in no way is a put down of women but a good salesman sells and a skilled alpha can bed many women.
I have worked many years in night clubs and seen the same scenario unfold evening after evening. 10 % of the guys leave with a girl of choice the rest just get drunk and hope for the best.
This works for the female too. The old expression of "she learned to open doors with a smile" is well known. So much so that a recent Dairy Queen ad on television perpetuates this with a girl who at best is maybe 10 or 11.
Mother and daughter at counter ordering sundaes, mother orders two meanwhile the daughter sees a boy she knows turns and stops the mother. Says to only order one.
Mother says to daughter" I didn't think you wanted to share "- DQ employee arrives at table with another sundae says to daughter " this is compliments of the guy in the dinosaur t-shirt.
Daughter turns to the boy and smiles and waves, turns back to mom and says "it's like shooting fish in a barrel"
So westpark, I do believe that both genders are to blame in the bad choices department. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 5/29/2008 10:38:50 AM | In regards to PAS, both males and females are guilty of it. Grandparents are guilty of it too. I know of two brothers that are guilty of parental alienation tactics, however this particular case is its due to a family dynamic that firmly believes all women are bottom feeding scum, who have no right to opinion or otherwise, unless they have some kind of use for them in the wars they create in the court system. The give away is when they say things like "I'm gonna hire such and such lawyer, and make sure your kids hate you when they grow up."
Once the lawyer they heard about through a friend of a friend who has a reputation for being cut throat and pocessess baracuda type legal skills, finds out theres lots of hate and lots of networth to gobble up, they dive right in(if client doesn't have the money, chances are his/her mommy and daddy do.), and go for the slow killing process kinda like the mob does, because they can make more by keeping it going for as long as possible. This normally includes many court appearances, many frivolous long winded affidavits that include false accusations of various degrees of abuse, uncleanliness, not providing necessities of life during access time, possibly heavy drinking and drug abuse, complaints about lack of involvement in the childs life while taking every step necessary to ensure mom or dad is not in the know. A sick twisted world I know, but according to this report ( http://cmte.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/committee/361/sjca/reports/rp1031529/sjcarp02/12-ch1-e.htm ) false allegations continue to enter divorce proceedings by way of lawyers who place allegations of criminal behaviour in affidavit material, without substantiation from child welfare or police authorities, and without consequence to the accusing parent or lawyer involved.
I strongly feel that it is key for the legal system to be held accountable if it is found out that they purposely prevented a family unit from getting along. In my opinion the law makers are made up of mostly lawyers, and they fear backlash from their peers if they actually prevented a few of their friends from practicing what they do best, which is capitalizing on a parents "need to win a war". | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 6/1/2008 4:49:16 AM | I don't know about anyone else....but I am smart enough to know that my kids NEED their Dad...and they tolerate me somewhat!! ..especially since they live with me the majority of the time!!
I figured out how to file court papers after spending $20,000 on a lawyer.
My ex and I are still trying to figure out how to be better communicaters.
As far as PAS goes..I think it is totally BS and just another label or excuse for a parent to use in court.
I am not proud of all my actions over the course of my divorce. I am also pretty sure my ex husband would agree he may have done things differently if he was given the chance.
PAS...is just a very clever way of pointing a finger at the opposing ex spouse.
Do parents involve children in divorce..sadly yes...but it is important for seperating parents to understand that no court will acknowledge or reward any arguements that come from bitter ex spouses on either side.
I have noticed that this thread has completely lost sight of what is the best for the kids....what is the best approach...what is the best offence...when does one run defence..how do we recognize the line in the sand as a point of no return...more importantly....how do we get back from being at that point of no return....
I got divorced at 26. I made a shitload of mistakes. I wasn't always right....but I was always angry.
I am 34 now, the anger has worn off. I have learned a few lessons and have the regret of how much time I was resonsible for wasting part of my boys childhood. I missed out...my ex missed out....NOBODY WON!!! ..we all lost!!
Actions speak louder than words....so perhaps we all need to bite our tongue once in awhile.
*btw..for those who do not have contact with their ex because of neglect and other safety issues regarding the kids...please disregard this post...it is not meant for you. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 6/1/2008 8:51:07 PM | lizbeth2
Just because parental alienation has not happened to you does not mean that it does not exist. Look through this thread and you will find ample evidence that it does in fact exist. One item you may want to look for is the growing list of states which have in placed PAS awarness day. It is unfortunate that you believe it to be BS because the more people who understand what it is and take a stand against it means the more children in this world who will not suffer this horrible form of child abuse.
Children are brought into this world by two people. A man and a woman. Those who abandon a child for no good cause are criminals. Those parents who interfer with the relationship between a child and their other parent, excepting cases where there is clear and proven evidence of abuse and neglect, are criminal as well.
Don't you think that if there were laws with sever consequences against you using your anger as an excuse for your actions that you would not have made many of the poor decisions which you did that affected the kids, you and the X? I am glad you finally returned to reality, but look at how many years of damage there were. Why should anyone be allowed to inflict such abuse upon any child because they are angry? Instead of discrediting something which has been proven to exist, why don't you take a closer look at it and maybe become someone who can help to do something to stop the abuse inflicted upon millions of children.
Kenny | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 6/2/2008 12:56:28 AM | ksr61,
To be clear..I never took my anger out on my boys. My guilt stems from my lack of focus and wasted energy I spent being mad at their Dad instead of concentrating my energy on my boys.
There ARE laws and consequences for this type of emotional abuse towards children. There is no need to attach a syndrome to the problem that has existed for hundreds of years!....seriously!
I have had some experiences with my boys that would very neatly fit into the guidelines and theory of PAS. Yet I still don't believe that PAS should be designated as a Syndrome by the medical community.
I remember a time when my oldest (15 now) came home from his Dad's very upset and distraught. I think he was about 8 or 9 years old at the time.
I asked him what was wrong...and he wouldn't open up. It was clear to me that something was really bothering him..almost physically hurting him. I didn't badger or nag at him to tell me what was wrong...I waited for him to come to me.
He told me that his Dad's girlfriend and her kids were making rude pictures of me and calling me names. He was upset because he didn't stand up for me when these people were trashing me and laughing at their own cruel jokes they were making at my expense.
That was a HUGE  lightbulb moment for me!! I realized then that I had to be the one to stop fighting with my ex. Funny, now I can't really recall what we used to get in arguements over back then.
I remember telling my son that it was okay for him to ignore that kind of behaviour. I told him I was tough enough to dismiss any comments and mean pictures and jokes they want to make.
I told him that if there was ever a time where he felt forced to participate in making bad jokes about me, I understood how he felt. I told him if he found himself laughing at the mean comments and cruel jokes about me...it was okay and I understood how he felt. I told him there was nothing in this world he could ever do that would make me give up on him. I told him to let me be the Mom and to stop feeling guilty cause he is just supposed to be a kid. That was the day I stopped being angry. That was the day I started to enjoy all of the things I had missed out on since becoming divorced.
I talked to my ex last night for an hour! I remember when it was a struggle for us to speak to each other for 30 seconds. PAS is nothing more than an excuse that some parents use in court as a crutch to validate whatever arguement they are trying to prove. The energy that is wasted on any kind of ridiculous movement is a waste of time and energy that could be better channeled to the kids....ahh...remember...the kids?
I wonder...how much commitment and time does it require to actively support a "neveau cause" such as this one. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 6/2/2008 11:51:21 AM | lizbeth2
Maybe your trailer park is cleaner than others, and you don't have to deal with the same drama as others. What would you call a stubborn parent that simply wants his or her way? What is it called when one parent only wishes to work with the other, and the other finds it suitable to make things up, just to frustrate the situation? What would you call it when a parent runs around to various child professionals without the other knowing, because they have made up thier mind that they need to do everything in thier power to keep the other parent out. Some convince themselves that lying is okay because they are convinced that they are the only ones that are capable of providing the love, care, and stability a child needs.
It would seem some people can only understand that alienation does exist when they have to pay a days salary to go toward a couple hours of supervised access, based on vexatious lies. Before you go and think I am a disgruntled parent. I have no kids, and this is an opinion I have come to know. | |
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