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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 4:21:54 PM | I would be interested in everyones comments of the following excert.
"I am abundantly thankful that I am not a narcissist, a psychopath, a sociopath or affected into actions beyond my control by their mental manipulation and mind control. I am equally thankful I have been granted the patience and ability to identify and get away from those so evil in a society which has so much tolerance for their destructive nature and behavior." | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:33:47 PM | Time for a tired old thread to die.
Too bad, because it is a topic worth discussing.
Who'd have thought a statement that does not contain any mention of gender or rights could be so polarizing. Perhaps we all have wounds that still need tending. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:47:46 PM | Who'd have thought a statement that does not contain any mention of gender or rights could be so polarizing
wow, i guess jeff needs it spelled out for him.
the statement didnt require the obvious to be proclaimed ( or for some of you maybe it did). given what the courts are usually deeming as the gender of the custodial parent, and that the statements are speaking in regards to " turning the tide" some things should have just been obvious. like,, now hold on heres the hard part,, the courts generally have been siding in favor of the mother having the physical custody of the child(ren).
scuse me,, but your entire point was to swing the pendulum back the other way. in general terms, what other gender/parent would that mean? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 5:54:00 PM |
the courts generally have been siding in favor of the mother having the physical custody of the child(ren).
Do you feel this is in the best interest of children? Would a more balanced approach better serve kids? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 7:50:30 PM | THE CHILDRENS RIGHTS COUNCIL
http://www.crckids.org/
CRC works to assure a child the frequent, meaningful and continuing contact with two parents and extended family the child would normally have during a marriage. We work to strengthen families through education, favoring family formation and family preservation. Unlike many other organizations with some of the same concerns, CRC is genderless; we are not a women's group nor a men's group. Rather, we advocate what we believe to be in the best interests of children including the Children's Bill of Rights! | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 8:21:32 PM | kids have no rights what are you thinking if thats the case they would live with the parent they want they dont but a parent not selfish and resentfull for the ex spouse will do whatever they need too to make sure the children is with both parents and they know they are loved no mater what they do and what they say....
Dont make it harder by saying  thing about your spouse in front of your children just be  because they learn fast and then will take sides..... If one calls to talk to the kids just let them if they would like to spend extria time let them bond because when they get older they wont have time to with friends school and sports dont use a child as a pawn if your mad at each other just not cool | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 10:16:34 PM | The undersigned recognize that absent issues of abuse, neglect or abandonment, social and government policy must be structured in such a way as to promote and maximize the opportunity of all parents to contribute to the social, emotional, intellectual, physical, moral and spiritual development of their children.
To those who do not agree with what is being said in the above; please provide the wording which you think would best serve children.
Those who feel no change is necessary in how custody and visitation are determined , please state so. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/14/2008 11:59:25 PM | gee jeff,,, you really need some comprehension skillz upgrade dude.
your question doesnt follow naturally the post you took it from.
but to answer your question,, if by more balanced, you mean swining the trend toward fathers, then no i dont. I have already stated several times i dont think either parents rights should be primary in any custody dispute. HOW DID YOU MISS THE MANY TIMES I HAVE SAID THIS?? at this point we have a system that claims to be working in "the best interest of the child" but the sad fact is, it uses a broad stroked brush to determine what that is instead of doing a case by case basis for determination. as well the system looks to both parents to see who would be best suited to fulfill a predetermined formulated "best interest". the system doesnt take into account what the specific child needs, it uses a formula that is flawed, even fractured, and one that is focusing on the parents rights and not that of the children. when i say "childrens rights" i am not speaking directly to any specific list legally, just a moral code. as in kids should be able to expect the adults to act on their behalf and in their best interest, at this point the system is not set up that way. and no, neither parent, in general terms, is best suited for that job of serving the best interest. swinging the pendulum toward fathers doesnt solve the problem, it just changes the gender bias to the other side, and you still have the same bitterness between the adults and still, NO ONE GIVING A DAMM ABOUT THE KIDS!
AGAIN,, WHY AM I HAVING TO REPEAT MYSELF TO YOU AFTER HAVING SAID THIS VERY THING REPEATEDLY IN THIS THREAD? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 6:42:15 AM | You continue to insult me and most others that you don't agree with, but you don't seem to be able to clearly state how you disagree with us. I say A, you say what I really mean is B and then go on about how horrible B is.
Here's what I believe:
When deciding on a plan to parent, gender should not be a major part of the decision process. Which ever parent is in the better position and is better equipped should be the primary caregiver to the child. I believe that is best for the child.
That's what I meant by "balanced." What you described was "unbalanced." It's different. The broad stroke that is used now paints fathers as the lesser parent by default. It is not best for children because it can too easily miss an opportunity for a better life for a child.
The substance of your last post seems to be in agreement with the beliefs I just stated. You are, however, violently opposed to what you think I believe and continue to insult me for what you assume. I'm not impressed and hope you don't feel obligated to repeat yourself. Sounds like you're just as tired of writing it as we are of reading it. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 7:51:56 AM | Guynamejeff wrote:
Here's what I believe: When deciding on a plan to parent, gender should not be a major part of the decision process. Which ever parent is in the better position and is better equipped should be the primary caregiver to the child. I believe that is best for the child.
The problem is that the government right now presumes the best parent most suited for the child is the woman/mother. Thus, as stated earlier, you have lawyers and judges who will conceed that a woman/mother can be strung out on dope and living on the system and if the biological dad says, "...hey, the kids need to be with me..." the kids stay where they are and suffer.
It is not fair to the kids - and like it or not, somewhere along the way we really should take into consideration the rights of the father, since we insist on making fathers long distance paychecks right now anyway.
That's what I meant by "balanced." What you described was "unbalanced." It's different. The broad stroke that is used now paints fathers as the lesser parent by default. It is not best for children because it can too easily miss an opportunity for a better life for a child.
Here is what I know to be a fact: The Court will, when assessing custodial fitness, place the child with the parent who has demonstrated the greatest likelihood to offer the other parent continued meaningful contact with the child.
Hence - once you break custodial hold by filing papers aserting the emotional abuse of the child because of the maternal enforcement of parental alienation of the father, you must then demonstrate to The Court all the well documented instances of the mother's repeatedly making disparaging remarks regarding the father - and all the cases of the mother frustrating and attempting to frustrate the father's visitation and custodial time with the child. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 11:42:29 AM | ""The problem is that the government right now presumes the best parent most suited for the child is the woman/mother. ""
or could it actually be, that the courts, when deciding what is best for the child, see no reason to uproot them from their familiar home environment when it sees the environment as fit and capable.
the question then becomes, (to the court)" is/are the child(ren) well cared for and nurtured in the environment they are presently in"
that environment is often with the mother in the same home as the chidren are familiar with. perhaps if we look at it from the perspective of "not upsetting the apple cart" then we can begin to see it from the perspective of what is right for the child.
im all for better enforcement of standing custody/visitation/ access orders. I personally see no reason to move kids from moms home to dads down the block if both environments are stable. if both provide the same level of stability, then who does it actually serve to order them to go to the other parents home to live when the place they are at now is what they are familiar with and just as stable in?
""Here is what I know to be a fact: The Court will, when assessing custodial fitness, place the child with the parent who has demonstrated the greatest likelihood to offer the other parent continued meaningful contact with the child.""
please do enlighten us as to what qualifies that statement to be true and real outside of your personal experience. (given that every state in the union has its own methods and formulas for determining custody, it should be interesting to see you prove this with valid resources) | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 2:37:24 PM | It is not fair to the kids - and like it or not, somewhere along the way we really should take into consideration the rights of the father, since we insist on making fathers long distance paychecks right now anyway.
boy oh boy,,, i was wondering when this was going to actually be admitted. In fact I am rather surprised that you actually did admit
YOUR RESENTMENT OF HAVING TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT YOUR CHILD(REN) WHILE HINDING BEHIND SOME LAME POLITICAL PLATFORM AND CLAIM THAT "ITS NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS".
not that i agree at all of either parent making disparaging remarks about the other one to the kids,or in earshot of them, i do have to wonder what makes your ex arrive at even having anything disparaging to say about you. i mean, hey, according to you, you are father of they year material. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 4:20:44 PM |
the question then becomes, (to the court)" is/are the child(ren) well cared for and nurtured in the environment they are presently in"
that environment is often with the mother in the same home as the chidren are familiar with.
Perhaps we should then stop assuming that the mother stays in the family home and the father leaves. I agree that where ever possible children should continue spending the majority of time where they have already been successful. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 5:48:14 PM | Perhaps we should then stop assuming that the mother stays in the family home and the father leaves. I agree that where ever possible children should continue spending the majority of time where they have already been successful.
let me put this in possibly the most simplest terms. often, and usually, during the course of a divorce proceeding/custody disputes, the children are usually left by the father with the mother. in most cases the father is the one who leaves, not the mother. why he chose to leave is really beside the point, THAT HE LEFT is the key here. its about the action, not the reason for it.
there is some unwritten natural assumptions made by that action on behalf of the father. one of which that he is "abandoning the marital home and all parts of it".
your "stop assuming that the mother stay in teh family home" WAS ALREADY DONE BY THE FATHERS ACTION OF LEAVING THAT AFOREMENTIONED HOME!
get it now?
and clearly, but much of which in this thread you have stated and supported, you are firstly about the rights of the father and not primarily about what is in the best interest of the child(ren).
that totally outside of the fact that for a grown man, you have both marked and singnificant comphension issues of the english language. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 6:00:18 PM | Hmmm, in my experience, the father is either KICKED out, or has his wife leave him. I think it is a safe assumption. Considering 70% of divorces are filed by women, I don't think it is the father leaving, as much as forced out. It seems to me, Trish, you had a horrible divorce, and assume all men are asses based on your choice in former husband.
Us fathers want equality. Women already have far too much power in the courts. It is to the detriment of children, that women have so much better. By creating equality, children come out for the better. I am curious what kind of obscure, strange thought you will toss out, to attempt to prove it is bad to have men and women equals as parents. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 6:15:36 PM | I have my own opinions on why it is that men often are the ones to leave the family home. But the fact that they do does seem to have a tremendous implication on how the courts finally decide.
I did not leave the family home when my wife filed for divorce. She "kicked me out" several times, I just didn't leave.
She was rude throughout the whole thing. She publicly questioned my manhood, my integrity, and my intelligence. In fact, now I get why this thread feels so familiar.
By the way, the court found after two full days of testimony that I was completely right and decided just about exactly the way I asked. For all the fathers out there, take heart that it can indeed work. I did not challenge her fitness as a parent (although the grounds certainly existed) or her stability as a person (again, plenty of ammo.) I provided the better opportunity for my children and just had to present my case. And not leave my children.
Trish, you are right that fathers leaving the family home is a factor. They should stay or they should take the children with them when they leave. But what's with all the rude behavior? Why be like that? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/15/2008 7:28:47 PM |
But what's with all the rude behavior? Why be like that?
The answer to that question can be found in these:
It seems to me, Trish, you had a horrible divorce, and assume all men are asses based on your choice in former husband.
She was rude throughout the whole thing. She publicly questioned my manhood, my integrity, and my intelligence. In fact, now I get why this thread feels so familiar.
that totally outside of the fact that for a grown man, you have both marked and singnificant comphension issues of the english language.
i do have to wonder what makes your ex arrive at even having anything disparaging to say about you. i mean, hey, according to you, you are father of they year material.
YOUR RESENTMENT OF HAVING TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT YOUR CHILD(REN) WHILE HINDING BEHIND SOME LAME POLITICAL PLATFORM AND CLAIM THAT "ITS NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS".
Think:
NARCASIST
SOCIOPATH
BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER (BPD)
That is from a distance. There may be more if physical contact were made. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/16/2008 12:08:34 AM | ""I am curious what kind of obscure, strange thought you will toss out, to attempt to prove it is bad to have men and women equals as parents.""
i never said this,, i never once in my whole natural life have been of the opinion that generally speaking either parent based on gender is automatically the best choice. further, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PARENTS RIGHTS, at least i have always had that contention, AND HAVE SAID THAT VERY THING SEVERAL TIMES IN THIS THREAD.
" Hmmm, in my experience, the father is either KICKED out, or has his wife leave him. I think it is a safe assumption. Considering 70% of divorces are filed by women, I don't think it is the father leaving, as much as forced out. ""
your experience huh,,, hmm,, and specifically what would this "experience" be? a professional one? perhaps an academic one? perhaps you were part of a national study regarding such matters?
""It seems to me, Trish, you had a horrible divorce, and assume all men are asses based on your choice in former husband. ""
and just how on earth do you arrive at the conclusion that i think all men are asses? i have not said that, i have not even eluded to it. having the experience of a nasty divorce isnt all that uncommon, so your assumption on that one isnt much of a stretch there. i would lay money on the fact that you had/have a fairly lousy experience with divorce too. good lord man, with the national rate of divorce for both first and second marriages being what it is, it doesnt take much imagination to say someone had a lousy divorce experience. in fact,, roughly 3/4's of the country* have experienced divorce, so yeah, i had a horrible divorce,, so what,, a lot of ppl have,SO WHAT! no big deal. thats not a mystery.
*national census figures and projections from the year 2000 | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/16/2008 8:07:52 AM |
i never once in my whole natural life have been of the opinion that generally speaking either parent based on gender is automatically the best choice.
So, here we have it. Trish believes that neither gender is by default the better parent. I suppose it would not be too risky to conclude that she also believes it is in the childrens' best interest for courts and policy to look upon both parents objectively, without consideration of gender, when making custody decisions.
With all of the screaming about childrens' rights, I don't think she mentioned that this was one of their rights. Only that nobody was considering their rights. Turns out the people she was insulting and yelling at were actually fighting for these very rights. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:09:21 AM | What a wonderful day for single fathers everywhere as we continue to raise our kids free from the feminazi hysteronics and rants of such who would defy The Constitution by ruthelessly extracting us from the lives of your kids!
Dear p-trishTHEdish:
Where you wrote:
boy oh boy,,, i was wondering when this was going to actually be admitted. In fact I am rather surprised that you actually did admit
This is becuase I fearlessly and with good cause, speak the truth. To you, the readers and the honorable judge presiding, and love it or hate it - the truth has set my child free, set me free and will continue to set Men/Fathers free as long as we have free men willing to stand up and be heard. Real Talk, lady.
YOUR RESENTMENT OF HAVING TO FINANCIALLY SUPPORT YOUR CHILD(REN) WHILE HINDING BEHIND SOME LAME POLITICAL PLATFORM AND CLAIM THAT "ITS NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS".
You try to manufacture some bassackwards attack on my and my willingness to pay child support? Shame on YOU. For the readers - be clear that I was paying child support before there was an order in place, and once the order was in place - I paid it and extra.
I did and do this because I love my child and even though it didn't work out between us, I respect the woman who blessed me with the best gift any man could have, my beautiful child.
In fact, when I agreed to move across the country with my former spouse in order that my child could continue to maintain a meaningful relationship with the mother (who is finishing her dgree at the university which accepted her in another state than we were living in) one offer my former spouse put into the modification papers which WE DRAFTED AS A TEAM OF LOVING PARENT [S] was "with 50/50 joint custody, niether parent will pay the other support..."
We are living together uner the same roof and I still pay her thousands of dollars in addition to the additional money I pay to keep her in school, with gas in her car and the finest clothes on her back.
I repsect the woman who gave me my child and I would not feel like a man if I did any less, so choke on your bile.
WHAT I DO RESENT: People like you who hide your man-hating devicifness behind a facade of caring for "...the best interest of the child..." Your words betray you. And your true colors come shining through.
I ALSO RESENT: That men are systematically extracted from the lives of their children, slapped with unwarranted stay away orders by the "protection-mill" and forced to have little no no voice while paying rediculous amonts of money. Then, if we cannot keep up with out payments we get labled "DEAD-BEAT DADS"
Hell yeah I'm frustrated - and I'm real about it... and even though my situation is not so bad, I've been in Monday morning divorce courts enough to see the Father's faces when the honorable judge presiding rubber stamped them out of their children's lives.
I'm frustrated that an institution like Family, Fatherhood and even Motherhood is being twisted into some kind of financial institution by a system that could care less how many lives it ruins.
i do have to wonder what makes your ex arrive at even having anything disparaging to say about you.
I defended my self in court in such a manner as to assure myself that my former spouse will NEVER again try to play that card of false accusations to get one up on me.
I figured it out and I can pay her off better than any judge or mediator can, so I gut the money talks where the order of the court walks, huh?
Look, I am not speaking exclusively on my own behalf, I speak on behalf of all my brothers who are going through this hell called divorce/custody/child support becuase my heart hurts for them.
I went through it, sure. But I am lucky enough to have come out with a fully loaded case, In Pro Per and wake people up early enough that I could begin to restore my relationship with my kid.
And I hurt for the mother and all the mothers who feel they are left with no choice byt to play the game and when the dagger gets handed to them, they feel like they have to shove into the back of the man who they created a human life with.
But here is my point, whether you allow youself to hear it or not - we have to set the balance straight - for all our sake as a nation and for the sake of our kids who are out nation first and foremost.
Do I speak the truth?
i mean, hey, according to you, you are father of they year material.
Nuh, nuh, nuh, no you don't... my kid and my former spous are the ones nominating me for "father of the year".
Like I said - I aint nothing special. Just a man willing to walk his talk, suck up the pain, and whose love for his kid is stronger than all your bullshit. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/16/2008 12:21:09 PM | "Do I speak the truth?""
NO, IN FACT YOU DONT. other than this one, " i aint nothin special" YA GOT THAT ONE RIGHT PAL.
TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS ONE. swinging the pendulum back the other way doesnt solve any of the fundamental issues with the system, it merely creates new ones and masks others in the form of the other gendered parent. you dont want an even playing field, you want fathers to be given "first refusal" as it were, and you have told us all this repeatedly as you have ranted on and on and endlessly on about how your ex did you wrong and how much of a victim you are, blah blah blah..............enough with the sob stories already. you could be your own lifetime network for krists sake! im still waiting for you to explain to me how changing the childs address merely to suit the father is of any good to the child when the home they live in is stable and the father has full access. cuz if you are really fair about this, a lot of absent parents/fathers play this custody thing when there is nothing actually to fight about, its a power play, and its certainly not in the best interest of the children.
""my kid and my former spous are the ones nominating me for "father of the year"."" would this be the same ex you have raked over the coals in this thread? | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/16/2008 3:10:43 PM | Trish, to me, the pendulum should be dead center. Fifty-Fifty. I still contend that a child does the best, with BOTH parents being positive role models, and having a positive influence on their lives. Having a child living with one parent, and seeing the other parent 2 weekends a month, is NOT 50/50, and is NOT giving the child enough quality time with the other parent.
My child has two houses. the house she has lived in, since she was born (mine), and her mother's house, which has moved twice in the past year. I don't think forcing a child to just be around one parent, and bringing the other parent into THAT household is good for the child, UNLESS the parents have an unnaturally good relationship. The child SHOULD go to the other parent's house, and spend time with them.
As for my numbers, on the divorces, I am going PURELY on my group of friends and acquaintances. I don't know that you can pull a bunch of numbers saying fathers just walk out, either.
What I don't understand Trish, is I always agree with you on every other thread. For some reason on this one, you seem to have the EXACT opposite stand, as what you have, everywhere else... I really don't get it. | |
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