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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:38:19 PM | You claim your remarks are in fact accurate
well since you call the accuracy into question,, name one thing i have posted that isnt correct? other than an opinion of any posters character,, name one thing, ( in its entirety and within context) that i have posted that was not correct. since im not in the habit of lying, i would really like to know what you seem to think i have said which is not accurate about the topic. now im curious,, seriously,, because i cant fathom what on earth you would percieve as inaccurate or incorrect of the things i have said here.
the op contention was that only both parents can provide the stability it requires to raise a child. thats a ridiculous contention considering that many ppl raise successful kids to adulthood without both actual biological parents involved. given how many different reasons exist as to why there are single parents raising kids, the contention is without merit on the broad spectrum. it totally disallows for things like widowed ppl, or divorced persons who raise kids effectively all the while modeling both adult genders to the child. goes to that "it takes a whole village" concept. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:44:55 PM | Now for something that really does matter and pertains to the topic of this forum.
Thank you Governor Patterson, Majority Leader Bruno, Speaker Silver, the NYS Senate, the NYS Assembly, and all administrative staff, for your public service and deep commitment to children and families. Special thanks to Senator Carl Kruger and his staff for their empathy and efforts in drafting and sponsoring this very important resolution. Thank you all for empowering the citizens of New York to eradicate Parental Alienation and the dread harm it does to innocent children. You make us proud to be citizens of The Empire State! For the children,Greg Fischer, "the children's lobbyist" and board member of Americans for Legal ReformP.O. Box 285Calverton, NY 11933-0285perfect10 0@hotmail. com STATUS: J5180 KRUGER Resolutions, LegislativeTITLE. ...Memorializing the Governor to proclaim April 25, 2008 as Parental Alienation Awareness Day in the State of New York
04/09/08
REFERRED TO FINANCE
04/15/08
REPORTED TO CALENDAR FOR CONSIDERATION
04/15/08
ADOPTED
SUMMARY:Senator Kruger BILL SUMMARY NOT FOUND
BILL TEXT:
LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTION memorializing Governor David A. Paterson to
proclaim April 25, 2008 as Parental Alienation Awareness Day in the
State of New York
WHEREAS, The well-being of children, our most precious resource, is of
paramount import to this Legislative Body and the people of the State of
New York; and WHEREAS, Parental alienation is a group of behaviors damaging to chil-
dren's mental and emotional well-being, and can interfere with a
relationship of a child and either parent; and WHEREAS, Such alienating behaviors can lead to the psychological
condition recognized by professionals as Parental Alienation Syndrome
(PAS) and often accompany high conflict marriages, separation or
divorce, and custody disputes; and WHEREAS, They may include speaking negatively about a parent to or in
front of a child, interfering with communication and visitation, and
discussing inappropriate information with a child, such as details of
the marriage, court proceedings, or financial matters and may contribute
to the damage or destruction of the bond between parent and child; and WHEREAS, Although parental alienation can be a purposeful attempt, it
can also occur without any conscious intent due to a parent's inability
to put the child's well-being before the parent's own feelings; and WHEREAS, Parental alienation takes advantage of the suggestibility and
dependency of children and deprives them of the right to love and be
loved and cared for by both parents; and WHEREAS, Parental alienation is considered a form of child abuse as
the alienating tactics used on children are disturbing, confusing and
often frightening, and rob children of their sense of security and safe-
ty; and WHEREAS, Increasingly, professionals recognize and agree that the
problems and effects of parental alienation and Parental Alienation
Syndrome exist, are damaging to children, can affect them well into
adulthood, and may last a lifetime with tragic consequences; and WHEREAS, Courts and social service agencies, as well, increasingly
recognize the importance of awareness and intervention for the
prevention of alienating behaviors for children, families, and society
as a whole, yet there is little public awareness of this growing, seri-
ous concern; and WHEREAS, With awareness comes education and the understanding and
ability to protect children caught in the crossfire of disagreements and
disputes between people they love; and WHEREAS, The observation of Parental Alienation Awareness Day provides
an opportunity to educate judges, law enforcement, education, medical,
social service and other professionals and personnel, and the public, of
the facts and issues surrounding parental alienation; now, therefore, be
it RESOLVED, That this Legislative Body pause in its deliberations to
memorialize Governor David A. Paterson to proclaim April 25, 2008 as
Parental Alienation Awareness Day in the State of New York; and be it
further RESOLVED, That a copy of this Resolution, suitably engrossed, be tran-
smitted to The Honorable David A. Paterson, Governor of the State of New
York.
>>.
To date, we've had :
FOURTEEN US Proclamations and Recognitions
TWO Canadian Proclamations
and ONE International Proclamation
recognizing April 25th as Parental Alienation Awareness Day.
Click below to view the proclamations/recognitions:
• Alabama - Governor Riley
• Arkansas - Governor Beebe
• Connecticut - Governor Rell
• Florida - Governor Crist
• Georgia - Governor Perdue
• Indiana - Governor Daniels
• Iowa - Governor Vilsack
• Kentucky - Governor Fletcher
• Maine - Governor Baldacci
• Maryland - Governor O'Malley
• Mississippi - Governor Barbour
• Montana - Governor Schweitzer (recognition)
• Nebraska - Governor Heineman
• West Virginia - Governor Manchin
• Edmonton, Alberta - Mayor Mandel
• Oakville, Ontario - Mayor Burton
• The Islands of BERMUDA | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:56:34 PM | I will name one thing and then I will respond to no more of your posts because of your attempts to turn this forum away from its true intent which has been explained and re-explained to you over and over again in several different ways by numerous people.
the op contention was that only both parents can provide the stability it requires to raise a child
There is your one thing. If you want to know my basis, read all of your posts and the responses to them. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 8:59:49 PM | wow
hot topic
i have shared custody of my kids
i deserve it, but not because i am their father...i deserve it because when my children were born, i knew that other than breastfeeding, there was not one other single task i couldn't or wouldn't perform
my ex didn't argue one iota on judgement day
i have followed the fathers movement for the past several years and am quite honestly torn...men and women are getting screwed
there are too many unique circumstances and too many variations to make comment, and i'm becoming a serious disbeliever in "lobby" sponsored studies (in each direction)
if you (a father) haven't equaled your child's mother (from day one) then the mirror probably isn't your favourite place
it starts on day one, it starts the day you take johhny, or sheila home from the hospital, it does not start the day the separation begins
to those that deserve it and don't have it...fight on
to the others...the movement is difficult enough without you...convenience has no part in parenting
note: this was written without consideration of 'extreme' and unjust circumstances...just your garden variety separation / divorce | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:12:24 PM | ajk1969,
It is always wonderful to hear of two parents, dispite the relationship situation, who keep the best interest of the children paramount.
It is such a shame that more situations are not as yours is.
I also agree that attacking the growing problem of parental alienation from a gender approach is not the best avenue.
Parental Alienation happens to moms and dads and greatly affects many children for the rest of thier lives.
Thanks for your input and you and mom keep up the Great and Very Important Work. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:21:44 PM | There is your one thing. If you want to know my basis, read all of your posts and the responses to them.
your "one thing" :
""the op contention was that only both parents can provide the stability it requires to raise a child""
read your own post,, #172,, you say that very thing.
that you have some proven fact that children thrive blah blah blah, when both parents are involved..
that statement contends that this is the ONLY circumstance in which children predominantly thrive. THATS A RIDICULOUS AND FALSE STATEMENT AND CONTENTION. as well, its rather limiting to presume that only those children who have both parents involved will thrive. there is absolutely no wiggle room in that statement about kids who thrive despite absent parents or dead parents or custodial parents who put in place postive adult models of the same gender as that of the absent parent.
what i said and you clipped is very accurate statement about your contention all along. I am going by what you said. I have not deverted from your statements. you have only allowed for PARENTS WHO ARE INVOLVED, being the be all end all reason for kids who thrive. and i have called that notion to the mat with you explaining that it takes more than being present to raise the child. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/25/2008 11:15:48 PM | Post #172: No one said that one parent could not do the job if need be. What is being said is that it has been proven time and time again that in most situations children do much better when both parents are involved equally. Notice the clear statement that one parent CAN do the job. Next sentence, notice the word MOST and the comparison word BETTER. Also, notice the absence of the word ONLY.
The OP has NOT contended that ONLY both parents can provide the stability it requires to raise a child. You made that up. And when you believed yourself you got real mad about it. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:13:30 AM | ptrishoncethedish: "c) i could honestly care less who takes me seriously or not in a public internet forum.i am posting on here like everyone else,, like it or dont, i am not losing sleep either way. umnlike some ppl, ( the poster this is in reply to specifically) i dont really spend time , caring who in a net forum , is taking me seriously or not."
Come on guys....quit feeding the troll. She doesn't take herself seriously, so why the he11 would anyone else? She thrives on argumentation, confrontion name calling and belittling (reference her post history). Just ignore her and stay on topic.
~ds~  | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:59:57 AM | jeff
notice this,,
ONLY is implied when using the terms best and most in the same sentence. specifically when you expand upon that thru the entire thread, generally implying that PARENTS WHO ARE PRESENT provide stability over and above any possible other dynamic or situation. There is no reason given for the millions of kids being raised or having been raised in single parent homes where one parent is absent (why they are absent is not pertinent to this point). when you imply "most" and make no statements to the contrary situation, you imply that its a condition of "ONLY".
read between the lines. while he says most, he makes absolutely no allowances for the millions of kids who were raised by single parents and are successful adults. he also doesnt make any references to the fathers who are "allienating" their children from the mother, or making those same disparaging remarks about mom to the kids as adamantly as he is about the mothers toward the fathers. reading between the lines, this brings me to only one conclusion about the op, the contention as a whole, and the "movement" specifically. ITS A LIMITED EXPERIENCE FROM WHICH IS BORN AND ITS SELF MOTIVATED FOR THE SAKE OF THE PERSON AND NO OTHER, INCLUDING THE CHILDREN.
as far as that tripe about me being one of those women who allienated my kids from their father.. um no,, and to repeat myself, i would have preferred a safer environment for them to visit with their father than him coming to the house to pick them up and keeping them overnight. "why is that", you may ask,, (repeating myself again), he was still using and drinking during that time. my girls remember the abusive nature of our marriage,, my son was too young to know what was going on by the time we split. he has absolutely no recollection of it, nor has he been given any information from me or his sisters about it. so any alienation that exists between my ex and his children was due totally on the part of their father's actions. and he did a fine job of it. some ppl need little rope in which to hang themselves. and now as he is reaching his 60's he cant fathom why none of his kids want to have anything to do with him. he has kids from a previous marriage too, and none of those kids ( adults now) have anything to do with this man. even our son has now seen him for what he actually is, and has retreated from a relationship with him. the dirt always comes out in the wash. true colors shine thru in the end. all i had to do was wait for it. that was the easy part. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:57:50 AM | trish;
As you have repeated said what you post is fact. The one statistic that you have provided is that it is men that usually abandom the family home and it was you who said that this data was obtained from the Census Bureau. Could you please then provide the link to this data. As some of the posters have presented above with links ot their data including many government sites.
What I see in your posts though is absolutes which is a childish way to debate. In your statement you have stated that you see this as swinging the pendelum in favour of fathers away from mothers. Again thinking absolutes, if one isn't favoured then the other must favoured, no middle ground. Repeated posters have said that this is not the case, they want equality and balance, so that each parent is treated the same.
But I do understand a little bit about you. Having read in another thread that your ex does not pay child support only to learn later that because he is an executive he negociated an employement contract where upon the company pays it. This is clear indication of character to me since if we use this as an example, you feel he is not paying instead of he negociated a contract that put his kids first so that the child support gets paid instead of taking for example deferred stock options, car allowance, vacations that companies sometimes give. The funny thing is your are so blinded that you don't even realize that he pays an increased amount for the child support since like here in Canada it is a taxable benefit. Which means he pays an increased amount because it would have to be included in his income.
I realize you don't want equality, that is painfully obvious through your posts and have presented no factual data or links or anything to support your OPINION, which based on the character shown above .... well I am sure you can make your own conclusion. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 10:03:58 AM |
notice this,,
ONLY is implied when using the terms best and most in the same sentence. Most of the best readers will disagree with your interpretation. Specifically, the OP disagrees with your interpretation of what HE meant.
Let's see if ANYONE thinks that a 2 parent home is the only way to raise children well. If someone takes up THAT cause, you should argue with them. The rest of us all agree that a single parent CAN do a fine job of raising a child without the other parent. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 10:14:30 AM | But I do understand a little bit about you. Having read in another thread that your ex does not pay child support only to learn later that because he is an executive he negociated an employement contract where upon the company pays it.
yeah,, umm, thats hillarious,, simply because of this, the person and situation you are posting about, WAS NOT MY EX, it was someone else, who said he didnt pay his own support out of his wages and that the company he works for pays his order as part of the deal he cut with them as a stipulation of his employment.
so do tell me again, what is it you presume to "know about me"? since you cant even get your posters straight, i would adore reading this one. and yeah, i still think its rather pathetic to use your own responsibilities to your children as a bargaining chip for employment. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 2:04:05 PM | Hey has anyone had a chance to check out Post 158 A GUIDE TO THE PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME?
Some opinions, thoughts or stories pertaining would be a welcome change to what is occurring in this forum at this time.
Thanks,
Kenny | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:42:27 PM | This is an article by John O'Brien with LegalNewsline.com
Comments are welcome.............
ANNAPOLIS, Md. (Legal Newsline) - Maryland's highest court recently affirmed a $3 million judgment in a civil case brought by a man whose estranged wife fled to Egypt with their children.
Michael Shannon has not seen his two sons in almost seven years. The Court of Appeals on Wednesday agreed that that is worth $3.1 million in compensatory and punitive damages.
"(A)s each day passes, Shannon is deprived of contact with the boys, who are now 11 and 8," Judge Lynne Battaglia wrote. "We view Appellants' ongoing harboring of Shannon's children in Egypt as an aggravating factor, and a high punitive award is appropriate to deter others from engaging in similar conduct.
"Evidence of the ongoing absence of the children also indicates to us that Shannon will never be fully compensated for the loss of society and companionship that he has suffered at the hands of the appellants."
Shannon married Nermeen Khalifa in 1996, and the couple had two sons, Adam and Jason. In Jan. 2000, the pair separated. A year later, a court awarded custody of Adam to Mr. Shannon and Jason to Mrs. Shannon.
Later in 2001, Mr. Shannon allowed both boys to visit a cousin in New York City under the supervision of Mrs. Shannon. Instead, she executed a plan that she had devised with her mother, Afaf Nassar Khalifa.
Afaf Khalifa has since been extradited to Maryland and sentenced to 10 years in prison, though the term was later reduced to three years. Her conviction was affirmed by the Court of Appeals, and she was released in 2004.
A Dec. 2006 trial resulted in a jury award of $17,500 for attorneys fees, $500,000 in compensatory damages against both Khalifa and Mrs. Shannon and a combined $2 million in punitive damages against the two.
The mother and daughter protested the verdict, claiming that Maryland does not recognize the tort of interference with custody and visitation and that the punitive award was excessive because there was no reason to believe the defendants could pay it.
Mr. Shannon argued the State did recognize the tort and that the punitive award was only twice as great as the compensatory award. He also said he provided clear evidence of the Khalifas' wealth.
A report in The Capital of Annapolis says Mrs. Shannon's father, Mohammed Osama Khalifa, is a wealthy Cairo businessman who sold all his property in California years ago.
Mrs. Shannon has still not been extradited to the United States and is wanted for failing to comply with court orders, the report adds.
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Filed Under: State Supreme Courts | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/27/2008 4:15:02 PM | It is equally ridiculous to presume only the "parent" can provide the stability of an adult model and influence to a developing child. that key bond is formed within the first six years of the child's life. beyond that age, it becomes increasingly difficult for a child to trust and bond with any adult, even if that adult turns out to be a "once absent" biological parent.
p-trish its a forum ,,try and keep an open mind ....your remark regarding a child bonding to the once absent parent or another adult ? I agree.it can be much harder for them once some time has passed ...this is exactly why its so wrong to give one parent sole custody on day one..it causes parental alienation ,.,,and you have now admitted it ..read some of the other posters comments to you about this sort of child abuse and what causes it instead of trying to bash every man who dosent think the single mothers like you can do it better alone as long as they get there cash.. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/27/2008 5:08:14 PM | this is exactly why its so wrong to give one parent sole custody on day one..it causes parental alienation ,
is this what you really think causes alienation of one parent or the other?
i dont suppose it ever occured to you that its the actual parents and not the court order. i know several couples, ex couples that is, who sucessfully raised their children after the divorce. oh and just to put that bee back in your bonnet, i never would or have admitted what you said i did. mostly because i have more sence that to lay blame on any one aspect of divorce on such a complex ussue.
"as long as they get their cash"
absolutely ridiculous,,, on the onset there was an order for $42 ('91) a week for three kids. ( that was a total ammount for the three, not that stipend for each) upon the final child reaching the age of majority in 2006, that weekly ammount was $126. i dont expect im gonna be affording disney trips and bmw's on that.
single mothers like me do it better because we realize that when dear old dad alienates himself we have to pick up the pieces and find adult male role models for our kids to bond with.
cry me a river already. this thread tired and is just another op'ster trolling for sympathy. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:18:26 PM | cry me a river already. this thread tired and is just another op'ster trolling for sympathy
p-trish
you are far from being finished trolling on this topic regarding single parents having a relationship with a real father . Because your children didnt ....or couldnt ..
its time for a change ..and some equality..you had us all fight to let you come to work and be treated as an equal..so lets see some equality in the family court rooms now..and with some equal shared custody of our children..the controlling sole custody days must end ..and women and men shall all become responsable and equal contributres in the work force as well as to there family and home..just like the way it is with the majority of married couples now before the brake up.. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/27/2008 8:06:27 PM | Somewhere to find some answers on the internet
http://krights.net/index.php?option=com_seyret&catid=9&Itemid=47
The above link is for Kids Rights Radio
You can find stories and info on:
Child Support, Political, Shared Custody, Child Psychology, Parenting, Divorce, Comedy, Parental Alienation, CPS, Foster Care, Presidential, Freedom, Relationships, Self Help, Fatherhood, Motherhood, Heros
Comments on KRIGHTS will be welcome.
Kenny | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/27/2008 9:14:13 PM | ksr61 I had a look ,good site and i will take an in depth look ,,thats a good link
because Kids Need Both Parents
http://www.DivorcedDadWeekly.com
the only other site that I have found that has some answers on the internet | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/27/2008 11:57:40 PM | ""you had us all fight to let you come to work and be treated as an equal""
women are not treated equally in the workplace. havent ever been and still arent being,
secondly,, you might wanna actually read the things i have said about my own personal experiences. i have not ever said that my kids didnt or couldnt have a relationship with their father. thirdly,,
""you are far from being finished trolling on this topic ""
i am not the op'ster referred to in MY post. I am not the one trolling for sympathy with this thread topic. the op's life didnt just happen to him, he played a part in it and i am fairly sick and tired of the whining about how much pain he has endured blah blah blah, and how much of a monster to him his ex is, blah blah blah. man up already, grow a pair and get the h3ll over yourself finally. this whole woe is me bull is so old and tiresome. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/28/2008 10:27:12 AM |
women are not treated equally in the workplace. havent ever been and still arent being That's a major generalization.
I find that there is a certain "type" of woman who cries gender inequality simply to try and make others agree with or believe her.
Does gender inequality happen? Of course it does.
Does it happen only to women? Hell no!
Sorry, but I think that men tend to get the raw end of the deal. The problem is that many are paying for the past (and current) indiscretions of others.
I don't believe that kids need both parents, especially if one (or who knows, maybe both) of those parents are horrible parental figures.
Just because you can make kids doesn't mean you make a good parent.
I DO think that kids need good, stable adult figures in their lives.
I don't think it's fair when one parent gets to decide that the other shouldn't get to see their kids. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/28/2008 12:46:54 PM | Here is another good site for info on Parental Alienation and
Hostile Aggressive Parenting.
http://www.paawareness.org/
Other good sites:
http://www.akidsright.org/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopPAS/
Kenny | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:16:49 PM | Here is another good site for info on Parental Alienation and
Hostile Aggressive Parenting.
http://www.paawareness.org/
Other good sites:
http://www.akidsright.org/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stopPAS/
good??,,, what is good is subjective. a more accurate term would be BIASED! specially that last one. there is virtually one "yahoo group" for any given topic and p.o.v. of said topics. | |
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| Shared Parenting Kids Need Both Parents
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:43:06 PM | Not all fathers are healthy for their children. The court system due to negelect and poor environment revoked my ex-husband's visitation rights at the request of my children and the hand of their court appointed attorney. Each custody case has it own merit and should be decided in the best interest of the children. Unfortunately, parent's rights - both male and female - aren't always in the best interest of the child/children.
Please, site court cases where a well deserving non-custodial parent went to court and the court system failed to rule in favor of the non-custodial parent.
Blanket rights should not be handed out as the child's best interest is not necessarily protected.
Further, I have gone back and read this thread. Please, there are a lot of adults alive today from two parent homes in jail and/or in lower income levels, high school drop outs, drug addicts and whose lives are by the social standards not up to par. It is a fact that families that neglect children or abuse children tend to have unsuccessful children as a result. Single parenting has a higher risk of falling into this stat. Please, include in cited studies and cases how many of these single parent household with less than stellar offspring had the involvement of both parents. This thread is full of single parent households where the father/mother is absent. Pray tell, and we all pray success to their children, if their child is less than stellar as an adult let's hope the study points to the willing absence of the father/mother and that it is factored into the study as a contributing factor. | |
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