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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/13/2008 5:57:09 AM |
Its not abot Racial spurerioty.. I didnt infer that.
Oh....then what’s this all about?
that bloody Owens stuffing it up..the sod !! lol
From Wiki,
In 1936 Owens arrived in Berlin to compete for the United States in the Summer Olympics. Adolf Hitler was using the games to show the world a resurgent Nazi Germany. He and other government officials had high hopes German athletes would dominate the games with victories (the German athletes did indeed achieve a top of the table medal haul). Meanwhile, Nazi propaganda promoted concepts of "Aryan racial superiority" and depicted ethnic Africans as inferior.
And again,
China is utilising these games in a very similar fashion..
A similar fashion to 1936 Nazi Germany? How else is one supposed to read your comments if you link them to Hitler and the Berlin Games?
try reading mate.. it helps!
That’s a blast! How about you learning how write your elucidations up?
(Standing by, waiting for the second imminent coming of the “clique”, in defence.) | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/13/2008 6:23:21 AM | The Olympics became irrelevant as a competition when large money entered the fray.
Winning IS everything, and hey I reckon I could break a world record in those hi-tech swimsuits :o)
Pay them nothing..... compete naked, and yeah I'll tune in ! | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/13/2008 6:30:22 AM | Ok.. for those incapable of simple deduction..
1936 Games were about..... Propagnada !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yep thats it. it was a vehichle to purport what lil Adolph wanted. His ideal outcome ws thatthose pasty wasty Aryans would lead the world !!
And along comes Jessie and put pay to that. Now the myth that was busted was the lil Painter and Decorators racial prejudice.. but he Games wer a PROPAGANDA machine !!
Up to speed here ??
Move forward to China in 08.. and we have.. a Games whose sole purpose is to provide the Beijing Bandits with a vehicle to convince its own people of what a marvellous lot the Gov and People are. All those shiny shiny new facilites..showing off the might and accomplishments of dear old China...sound at all familair here ??
You have a Gov pushing a message through a world stage ....the mechanism is Propaganda...i.e...its what it want you or anyone to believe..as opposed to the realities it shields from anyone who would have the temirity to speak of.."other truths"
So its nothing about RACE per se..its about opportunities to dress up lies as truths.
Lies can have many guises. | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/13/2008 10:42:10 AM |
1936 Games were about..... Propagnada !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good grief every Olympic Game that has been held since the original in Greece has incorporated propaganda about the hoist country and of those participating in them.
Australia did it; the US has done it as well as the UK. With all the media saturation at the time of any Games a hoist country would be foolish not to take advantage of the free advertising for tourism and political purposes. I suppose your attitude to that would be that it’s alright if the hoist country is an Anglophile, that’s O.K, that’s “us”. But China, no way, it’s all propaganda and lies!
The Olympic Charter bans any kind of “demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda” in any Olympic venue or area.
However, at the Sydney Games in 2000 Cathy Freeman flew the Aboriginal flag to highlight the plight of the Stolen Generations after she won a gold medal in the 400 metres . Pure political propaganda.
China’s foreign ministry spokeswoman said that the IOC’s own charter called for “irrelevant political factors” to be kept separate from the Games..
Unfurling Free Tibet banners or wearing Save Darfur T-shirts at Olympic venues are acts likely to be regarded as a breach of the charter that was introduced after the American athletes gave the Black Power salute on the podium at the 1968 Games in Mexico City. Pure political propaganda.
Jacques Rogge, the president of the International Olympic Committee, said that competitors were free to express their political views but faced sanctions if they indulged in propaganda.
Mr Rogge said: “It is very easy with hindsight to criticise the decision to award the Games to Beijing. It’s easy to say now that this was not a wise and a sound decision. “Without any doubt, the bid of Beijing was the best. It offered something that no other country could: bringing sport and Olympism to one fifth of mankind. That was the reasoning behind awarding the Games to Beijing.”
China’s foreign ministry spokeswoman said that the IOC’s own charter called for “irrelevant political factors” to be kept separate from the Games. The Games should be left to the sportsmen and women to battle it out in the field of sport. | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/13/2008 4:48:42 PM | Chiny
In theory I agree with your sentiments and that of the Chinese foreign minster..that the sportsmen/women should be left to battle it out on the field........sadly that will be not the case and the actual sports events, I believe, will be a side issue to everything else going on and yes there will be protests about Tibet and I hope there is....the Olympics stopped being about sport, a long time ago and we are naive to think any different, being it by making a blatant power salute or unfurling a Aboriginal flag.
One wonders how we will get thru the political communist saturation that I believe the Opening Ceremnoy will be overloaded with. It wont be whats in the ceremony but what will be misisng. Traditionally host countries tell the story of their nation beginnings and contribution to the world stage.....how will China explain the rise of communism and Tianamen Square - hmmm??? Visually spectacular ?? - of course it will be, at the cost of many
In reference to some above posters, When I was in China in 2003, on tour. and at Tianamen Square, I heard one Australian tourist say to another.."this is where the massacre happened"...in whispers, but loud enough for us to hear...the Chinese guide firmly informed us that no massacre ever took place...yes there was a uprising and a few problems with students, but it had been misreported by the Western Media and no deaths....she was quite firm, and the look was steely. Obviously she missed the iconic images of defiance..one man against one tank..I whispered (quietly) to my friend that a) That tourist wasnt the first one to mention it and b) everything really is state controlled...even thoughts !!! ...nobody in the group mentioned it again. After all we were in THEIR country as visitors...I will watch the Opening Ceremony with interest though based on that. | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/13/2008 10:07:45 PM | Yes, it will probably be explained in much the same way the guides during the Atlanta Olympics explained the human rights abuses of the USA, their very own brand of apartheid - particularly in places like Georgia, their invasion of a long list of foreign countries that they had invaded that posed no threat to them.
As for 'communist' propaganda, I think you'll find that since China has embraced capitalism with open arms you'll hear very little of the 'C' word from the Chinese - if anyone it will be the western journalists that will hammer away on that one. | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/14/2008 1:04:55 AM | This whole Olympic games creating more attention for the Free Tibet movement..., could be the making of China.
If Mother China allows it to happen........, nnnaa..., snowflakes chance. | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/14/2008 11:05:03 AM | Pookiespal
Throughout history certain actions taken by the whole of mankind have been shown to be barbaric. As pure evil executed upon each other regardless of where on the planet.
Sure you can quote the past actions of China like,
When I was in China in 2003, on tour. and at Tianamen Square, I heard one Australian tourist say to another.."this is where the massacre happened"...in whispers, but loud enough for us to hear...
But you fail to notice that this is all part and parcel in any nation’s growth. Yep, just like a child, nations learn from their mistakes and become more and more enlightened. China is probably the oldest civilisation on Earth after Egypt, or it may even surpass Egypt in age but in the 21st Century, it is also a developing country. Much like Egypt is as well, both have had their ancient civilisations come and go with all of their accumulated social civility, now needing to be re-learnt, re-built.
If you like we can look at examples from your USA, of which you seem to venerate in all matters,
Kent State massacre occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio and involved the shooting of students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The unarmed students were protesting the US invasion of Cambodia and thus an expansion of US hostilities to beyond the borders of Vietnam.
Mỹ Lai was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed citizens of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam), mostly civilians and majority of them women and children, conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968. Before being killed some of the victims were raped and sexually molested, beaten, tortured, or maimed. Some of the dead bodies were also mutilated. The massacre took place in the hamlets of Mỹ Lai and My Khe of Sơn Mỹ village during the Vietnam War.
Over 3,000,000 Vietnamese men, women and children were killed over the course of about 30 years of US aggression. 600,000 civilians were killed in Cambodia by US bombing between 1969 and 1975 and over 500,000 people were killed in Laos when America subjected civilians there to "secret bombing" from 1964 to 1973, dropping over two million tons of bombs on the country. Over one fourth of the population also became refugees. Cambodia and Laos were not even participants in the Vietnam War!
Having completed two long term postings to Vietnam covering five years of in-country living, believe me I have seen the results of the chemical warfare that the US unleashed on the Vietnamese pheasants and none of it was acceptable conduct!
What for? All the Vietnamese wanted was their country back in their own possession, to be governed by Vietnamese for the Vietnamese people, not greedy foreigners seeking profits to take back to their own countries. The Vietnamese have achieved what they wanted and look at it. It’s moving ahead in leaps and bounds even adopting capitalist policies to advance their country further. None of this would have happened if they were left to a life under the boot of French and US dominance.
45,000 people were killed in South Lebanon since 1982 by Israel, always armed and supported by the US. Thousands have been killed in Palestine and millions (in both Palestine and Lebanon) were made refugees by the US/Israel.
The US/Israel are now building separate roads classified as “Palestinian Only Roads”. They’re taking apartheid to a new level whereas the South Africans only had separate footpaths for black and coloured Africans.
Hundreds of thousands were killed by US direct and indirect interventions in Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Peru, and Argentina from the mid 60s through the 80s. Hundreds were killed or injured when the US invaded Grenada (a Commonwealth country), in 1983. .
In the US-supported Rwandan genocide, an estimated 800,000 people were killed in just 100 days in 1994.
The list of atrocities just goes on and on but no-one seems to notice as it’s “Us” doing it to “Them” and so it’s OK. This “us” versus “them” mentality seems to infuse itself deep into the fundamental nature of our behaviour, our conduct in our dealings with others of the Earth.
Truth often passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted. This process occurs when a new truth is revealed that contradicts current superstition, whether the truth comes out about the Earth not being the centre of the universe or the truth comes out about the horrible atrocities committed by the United States government.
Yes, violence and oppression exist all over the world, and the United States is not the only country that has done wrong and made mistakes. But there is currently only one country that has conducted destruction with such strong involvement on a global scale. There is only one imperialistic empire that has been so deeply linked to so many corrupt dictatorships, oppressive regimes, and corporate exploitations and it is the United States.
You present a phobia of “fear” in your post. Do you fear China? You needn’t speak in whispers; no-one’s going to hurt you. “Fear” is a tool that politician’s of the ilk of John Howard use to usurp the populace into believing something that just is not there and it’s not there due mainly to your lack of knowledge/understanding of China or whomever the subject is at the time. Thereby the politician, in this example John Howard, can fill you with a canard/fabrication in order to progress his own agenda and thus get his way.
A previous Department of Defence White Paper described Australia’s strategic area of interest as being a rectangular area south of China and east of India. I believe we should slightly increase that to include China and India as they will both exert formidable military and economic power over us in the very near future. At least it will certainly happen in my life time. We should concentrate our efforts in our region and not blow our limited diplomatic, financial and military resources on operations elsewhere completely out of our region!
Go to China for the Olympics and on days where events are of no interest, go walkabout through Beijing visiting every nook and cranny. No-one’s going to hurt you and at times when events have no interest for you over more than a day, hop on a bus visit some places of interest around Beijing. Check out the antiques and the wonderful food. But above all don’t surrender to the fear mongers of the world.
It is after all, about positive engagement and not fear, that’s how relations and trust are built. | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/14/2008 1:35:28 PM | It is a definate trend by the english speaking 'allied' nations today to police every other country and culture around the world.
They have an ignorant tendency to glorify war because they havent been invaded themselves in recent history.
They send soldiers they can spare to someone elses country to kill their men, women and children if required, the ones that dont come back are heroes - and the ones that do are hearoes too. Thats not war - war is when someone comes to your place and kills your wife and children.
Americas policy of ideological isolation through criticism and interference of any other system is claiming more lives every day.
But we cling to them - even though a good number thinks Australia is a small alpine nation somewhere in Europe - because we couldnt defend our great country against anybody, because we have the population of New York State.
Wouldnt it be wise for a country that has always depended so much on a large Imperial Brittain or Imperial America, to be less aggressive towards nations it couldnt defend itself against?
Until we are happy to kiss our trade relationship with China goodby, resolve our own indigenous problem, resolve the anexation of East-Timorese oil and gas fields - we have no credibility.
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/15/2008 7:28:28 AM | Chiny
Thankyou for your post.
As you may recall the post was about how relevant the Olympics were today, naturally as the next Olympics are to be held in China - a communist country with a "questionable" human rites record, and also in the news recently due to the issue with Tibet, this forum did steer into discussion about China and their human rites issues......thats fine if that where the forum elected to go..as with all forums, they should be open to healthy discussion and debate. I would have posted the same forum if the Olympics were being held in Siberia !!!
But you fail to notice that this is all part and parcel in any nation’s growth. Yep, just like a child, nations learn from their mistakes and become more and more enlightened. China is probably the oldest civilisation on Earth after Egypt, or it may even surpass Egypt in age but in the 21st Century, it is also a developing country. Much like Egypt is as well, both have had their ancient civilisations come and go with all of their accumulated social civility, now needing to be re-learnt, re-built.
I appreciated the above comments as you state China is one of our oldest cultures, its a shame then that when the massacre happened in Tianamen Square it was in the "civilised 1980's" not like 400 BC !!! I can't see how China has learnt from this mistake when as other posters above pointed out they still deny that this event even occured and also denied it to our tour group....last time I checked CNN did get this coverage rite !!!
If you like we can look at examples from your USA, of which you seem to venerate in all matters
I was born in the United States of a Irish Father and Welsh mother. As my father was in the US military we moved all over the world due to his postings. I was brought up in Australia and even though I hold dual citizenship I do consider Australia my home My brother is currently serving in Iraq, as he too was born in the States and both my sisters were born in UK. I lived in the US for 6 years and married a American the first time and half Chinese, half American the second time, my third husband was Italian....my former mother in law is full Chinese. I thought I may point this out to you so you can see that my loyalties do not lie with any particular country but with many...I also lived in the UK for 8 years.
I know its very trendy to Bush bash and polarise Amercia..I have no issue with that, we are all here to debate...in a healthy constructive way, however at present the US arent holding the Olympics, China is and thats where the focus for the forum should be, not on America's human rites issues which is where you wanted to steer the forum or who they have invaded...a forum could always be started on that, if someone wishes...perhaps yourself ?
My former husband is living and working and trading in Shanghai now...and that was the reason for our visit in 2003 for him to establish his company there...On the day I went on our tour with other Aussie tourists, my husband did not accompany us. The only reason I whispered to my friend about the massacre was as I am a guest in China, I did not want to offend the Chinese Tourist guide who had already made it quite clear to all on the bus that the massacre did not happen !!!! ....and I believe that she believes that !!!.
If I had a fear of Chinese, as you stated above...I certainly wouldnt have married a man part Chinese and I must admit I do not appreciate the condescending words you used towards me regarding this matter....I whispered because I didnt want to offend a truly loyal but somewhat misguided employee of the state....As for China or indeed Beijing itself I did not like it at all.....it appealed to me not one little bit.....the people were charming, and I loved the food but that was it.....I found it dirty, the people spitting was most offputting and I found the countryside held little interest to me and I have no interest in antiques or the like whatsoever - we were in Beijing and its surroundings for just on 3 weeks and in my book, 2 weeks too long... ...however I did enjoy visiting Shanghai...and that is where my ex husband is currently residing. So on a personal note I would not recommend Beijing itsself...to anyone, but would recommend Shanghai, should I be asked, but on a whole, China held little appeal to me and Europe to me is of greater interest.To each, their own.
So in closing this post, I say Chiny before lecturing me on the joys of China....and Im sure there are many, or alternatively telling what I should or should not fear in regards to China, the people, culture etc, perhaps you should have asked a few more questions of me before assuming and then ridiculing my "fears" which werent fears at all as Ive explained above..maybe gathered a few facts first before posting and perhaps kept on topic ?
Now perhaps the next poster may focus on whether they feel the Olympics are still relevant in 2008 ...whether held in Beiijing or Greenland !!!
Cheers | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/15/2008 5:03:11 PM | sorry Pooks.
The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
too much politics,
too much profiteering,
too much corruption,
too many rules,
too many drugs,
too much drama,
too little sport.
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/16/2008 6:28:11 AM | I was in Shanghai in September last year. What I am concerned about is the pollution and how that will affect the athlete's performance.
The polution was terrible in Shanghai, quite a few people on the tour developed breathing troubles, which was diagnosed as being cuased by the pollution. Beijing on the other hand is a much larger city and I wonder if the pollution would affect the athletes performance... | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 4/16/2008 9:46:15 AM |
I know its very trendy to Bush bash and polarise Amercia..I have no issue with that, we are all here to debate...in a healthy constructive way, however at present the US arent holding the Olympics, China is and thats where the focus for the forum should be, not on America's human rites issues which is where you wanted to steer the forum or who they have invaded...a forum could always be started on that, if someone wishes...perhaps yourself ?
Not the reason for quoting American human rights abuses at all.
I exampled HR abuses by the US as a comparative analysis against China’s; after all you can hardly de-stabilise or sabotage the Olympic Games using HR issues if your own HR
abuses surpass that of China’s. If countries are to use China’s HR abuses as political clout to protest/demonstrate against the Olympic Torch and then the Games themselves, they have to be speaking from a position of credibility to not do so is just naive.
also in the news recently due to the issue with Tibet
China has had authority over Tibet for over several hundred years. Ancient history being brought to the fore by outside agitators on the eve of the Olympic Games in order cause havoc and embarrass the PRC. The Monks demonstrating in Tibet may not have been Monks at all. It’s a common ploy where fake Monks are used for the camera’s purposes to gain outside sympathy for the cause. This was done in Burma recently where Monks were shown demonstrating against the government, however when actual Monks such as the Saya Daw in Burma, where asked about the action’s of those Monks he replied “Monks don’t demonstrate”. The same answer was repeated by Monks in Thailand. So who could be perpetrating this? I don’t know. The Australian Government recognises China’s authority over Tibet and Britain has done so since a treaty from 1904.
The Dalai Lama has repeatedly said that the issues that he wants to discuss with China are not issues of independence but issues to do with Tibetan Autonomy. He has also stated that he wants no boycott, no demonstrations and no violence in and during the games; instead he wants the games to go ahead peacefully. I would have thought that if anyone was in a position to know, he would be.
I can't see how China has learnt from this mistake when as other posters above pointed out they still deny that this event even occured and also denied it to our tour group....last time I checked CNN did get this coverage rite !!!
All countries do this when they are ashamed of an action.
Here’s a recent one from the UK, where the government tried to rewrite history regarding the Iraqi war.
Britain's biggest teachers' union has accused the Ministry of Defence of breaking the law over a lesson plan drawn up to teach pupils about the Iraq war. The National Union of Teachers claims it breaches the 1996 Education Act, which aims to ensure all political issues are treated in a balanced way.
Teachers will threaten to boycott military involvement in schools at the union's annual conference next weekend, claiming the lesson plan is a "propaganda" exercise and makes no mention of any civilian casualties as a result of the war.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/iraq-teachers-told-to-rewrite-history-795711.html
I was born in the United States of a Irish Father and Welsh mother. As my father was in the US military we moved all over the world due to his postings. I was brought up in Australia and even though I hold dual citizenship I do consider Australia my home My brother is currently serving in Iraq, as he too was born in the States and both my sisters were born in UK. I lived in the US for 6 years and married a American the first time and half Chinese, half American the second time, my third husband was Italian....my former mother in law is full Chinese. I thought I may point this out to you so you can see that my loyalties do not lie with any particular country but with many...I also lived in the UK for 8 years.
My grandfather was born in Wilmington, Delaware and I have many relatives in the USA. I have ancestors from the UK as well and many relatives there. I have also hit a Hong Kong mattress all night long. All very nice, but relevant to the Olympics.....I think not in the least
. If I had a fear of Chinese, as you stated above...
Actually I stated no such thing. I asked you the question.
Do you fear China?
So in closing this post, I say Chiny before lecturing me on the joys of China....and Im sure there are many, or alternatively telling what I should or should not fear in regards to China, the people, culture etc, perhaps you should have asked a few more questions of me before assuming and then ridiculing my "fears" which werent fears at all as Ive explained above..maybe gathered a few facts first before posting and perhaps kept on topic ?
Then you should not have addressed your post to me, seeking my opinion of which you got. And I didn’t go “off” topic. You just didn’t understand the examples I gave and the angle I was coming from.
Chiny
In theory I agree with your sentiments and that of the Chinese foreign minster..that the sportsmen/women should be left to battle it out on the field........sadly that will be not the case and the actual sports events, I believe, will be a side issue to everything else going on and yes there will be protests about Tibet and I hope there is....the Olympics stopped being about sport, a long time ago and we are naive to think any different, being it by making a blatant power salute or unfurling a Aboriginal flag. | |
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TLC_
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Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 65 | |
| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 5/23/2008 2:38:29 AM | even as a person who is not into sports, i would say the olympics are still a good idea,
but not in china, the way that bunch enslave and treat tibet is deplorable.
people here would get in deep $hite for treating a dog the way they treat the ppl of Tibet.
FREE TIBET | |
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| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 5/23/2008 2:58:03 AM | my ten cents worth...lol...with inflation probably only worth 4 cents now...lol
A) The olympics will and should always be relevant as a sporting event
B) Comercialism is the main thing that has screwed it so hence the pollies and anyone that wants to vent uses it as a billboard.
C) It shouldnt matter which country hosts it as it should be judged by the event not the country's past as most have grey pasts if you go back far enough.
D) Hmm bashing any country that holds it because of civil rights etc, has anyone actually thought about the level of civil rights in ancient greece and other countries that started the original olympics....they were most definitely not saints and babaric is probably the best term.
cheerz all be safe and be well | |
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TLC_
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Joined: 1/26/2008
Msg: 67 | |
| The Olympics - A Really Nice Thought...But
Posted: 5/23/2008 3:08:48 AM | unfortunatly, outside of schools and community groups, there is no such thing as a sporting event, its a multi million dollar craze.
fotty and the like can still be played in a field, dont need a million dollar plot | |
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