| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:18:19 PM | If you can prove to me that matter has always been in existence, then I believe God does not exist.
Why does one preclude the other?
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:25:11 PM | | Clarence, antibiotic resistance is not evolution. That is adaptation and we all agree that happens. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 3:29:57 PM | I see people are asking where God came from. If you are talking about the God of the Bible, then you can find the answer in the Bible.
Nothing Created God, He has always existed. He is not bound by time. Time binds the universe and Earth that He created for us to live in.
He is the Alpha and the Omega, trhe beginning and the end. There is nothing beyond Him. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 8:40:20 PM | | All of you are correct when you say that I cannot prove that their is a God. I Never said I could prove that there is a God. Religions are FAITH based, and you are correct when you say it is my faith that I believe in God. When it comes to the theory of God, That is all it can ever be. because no man has yet disproved that there is NOT a God. So we are all back at square one. I cannot prove and you cannot disprove. That is why people disagree so much about religion isnt it? | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:14:22 PM |
All of you are correct when you say that I cannot prove that their is a God.
God can be proven to those with an open mind. To those who are unwilling to believe, nothing will suffice as proof. Been like that since the Garden of Eden. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:35:11 PM |
God can be proven to those with an open mind. To those who are unwilling to believe, nothing will suffice as proof. Been like that since the Garden of Eden.
Almost anything He did would be proof. Such as all the things that James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc witnessed in the bible - why don't we get to see those miracles today - did He run out of them? If God could so much as lift a finger to show His presence, that would be enough to convert anyone. Just because I'm not convinced by the current evidence of His existence - that is, absolutely nothing - does not mean that "nothing will suffice as proof" because if I watched a staff turn into a serpent, a guy part the red sea, a loaf of bread feed hundreds, or innumerable other things then I'd be a believer. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:46:50 PM | Clarence, antibiotic resistance is not evolution. That is adaptation and we all agree that happens.
That's what evolution is. So I'm glad we can all agree that evolution happens. 
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:50:27 PM | Almost anything He did would be proof. Such as all the things that James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc witnessed in the bible - why don't we get to see those miracles today - did He run out of them? If God could so much as lift a finger to show His presence, that would be enough to convert anyone. Just because I'm not convinced by the current evidence of His existence - that is, absolutely nothing - does not mean that "nothing will suffice as proof" because if I watched a staff turn into a serpent, a guy part the red sea, a loaf of bread feed hundreds, or innumerable other things then I'd be a believer.
6000 years ago god was creating the universe. With the lights off even. Today he's relegated to appearing on toast. This should tell us something very important about the status of god's existence. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/10/2008 10:52:14 PM | Oh lol, the infamous TalkOrigins. The AIG of the Evolutionists.
So the best response you can give to scientific evidence, logic, and reason is "lol". Your response does more to disprove god than I could ever do. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:22:16 AM | OP - I did not vote this as redundant. I voted to keep it. I felt that you were asking a legitimate question about what you were told by your pastor. Now I see that you were just pretending to be interested in feedback to push your point of view, just as your pastor was pretending to use science to do the same thing.
The question isn't about evidence, nor is it about proof. It's not even about who is right or wrong. Regardless of whether Creationism/Evolution are Right/Wrong that's not what you asked. You originally stated that Evolutionists say nothing came from something.
That. Is. Wrong.
Evolutionists say no such thing. I'm not interested in further off-topic debate. There are plenty of other threads with exactly the same non-information. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 12:39:07 AM |
So we are back at square one
Tousche!!!
So goes the religion threads.
So we are back at square one
I just can't get enough of that  | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 1:06:19 AM |
That's what evolution is. So I'm glad we can all agree that evolution happens.
Actually no. Creationists do not believe in evolution, but all agree on adaptation. And when I say adaptation, I mean survival of the fittest in certain environments, not adaptaion of dna.
Which is why we get different breeds in a kind (or species).
The only mechanism for possible macro evolution is random mutations in dna. But if you look into the possibility of that, you'll see that it's less likely than throwing 2000 dice at once and they all land on the number 3.
Also it is worth noting that nothing ever gains dna, they either lose dna or it mutates. So things don't actually get better. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 5:21:06 AM | | Whitegold, I posted this post for no other reason than to get some opinions out there, and I think I did just that. This was also my first post on POF so excuse me for not being so "experienced" as some of you old timers on here. I am not really an argumentive type of person, I was sharing somethings that I found interesting at my church. Im comfortable with my beliefs, and its right for me. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 6:58:32 AM | Indeed, your sharing is a wonderful thing to do, as it gets people to thinking and indeed, many people go through life and never think about where they came from or where they are going. In my belief system, you repeat your existence until you get it correct repeatedly until enlightenment strikes. I have been enlightened and no one can ever take that away from me. I am lucky I lived long enough to reach this point in my life.
Toast Masters group taught me there are two types of people; those who see the ocean as a beautiful expanse of blue liquid teaming with life and beautiful sounds, while the other explain it as great hole in the earth, filled with rain water. The point of Toast Masters is to know your audience.  | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 7:19:30 AM | Did Something come from Nothing?
In the words of the song "Nothing comes from nothing - nothing ever could" I'm not sure where the biblical God fits into this, if anywhere. :) | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 8:54:20 AM | I dont think there was ever "nothing".
Imagine a physical body in space. It is subject to numerous laws of physics, theremodynamics. You can't see, feel, or touch gravity, for example, but it's there.
Now separate that body from those laws, a lot of the laws relate to physical matter, but they still exist, gravity or the potential for gravity is still there.
And if you even remove all of those laws of physics, you are still left with logic. 1+1=2, the logic that things make sense and tend to be organized, not chaotic and random, remains and is embedded in everything, everywhere as a kind of background.
The old Bibles used to say, "in the beginning, there was the Word" or "the Logos" or some such thing. Something must have been there already, predating physical matter, for physical matter to be able to exist at all. Atoms don't just behave randomly, they behave according to physical laws, so anything that would come into being is subject to these. So if you have a stream of water that has no rocks in it, you toss a rock in for the first time .......and it might behave according to forces already there, be buoyant, float with the current, etc.
Current science talks about "dark matter", which isn't well-understood yet, but apparantly the universe is pervaded by it.
We talk about something and nothing like it is black and white, all or nothing, because it is mostly what we can perceive with our sense of not. It could be that there are an infinite number of gradations between something and nothing .........a cubic foot of air to us might seem like nothing.......but to a trained eye contain hundreds of critters, millions of molecules, countless atoms, etc.
Maybe there is just something faulty or crude about our concepts of "something" and "nothing". Even without a single particle in the entire universe, there is still the potential that 1+1=2 so if there WERE a particle, it would behave according to some logic or physical laws that preexisted.... the Logos was there. And in physics, potential energy is a something, quantifiable, etc.
I dont know if this makes any sense....:-).... but our ideas of "nothing" vs. a burst of "something" are a little suspect. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 9:02:45 AM |
I see people are asking where God came from. If you are talking about the God of the Bible, then you can find the answer in the Bible.
No you can't. There isn't one word in there about where he supposedly came from.
This is why no argument with a creationist ever goes anywhere; they always present their unfounded claims as "evidence" while steadfastly ignoring all the real evidence.
One of my favourite quotes from House this season: "Rational arguments don't usually work with religious people.... otherwise, there would be no religious people." That, in a nutshell, is why the whole evolution vs. creation argument wasn't settled and shelved long ago.
Nothing Created God
Well... nothing, perhaps, except the authors of the Bible, whoever they were. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 9:07:07 AM |
This is why no argument with a creationist ever goes anywhere; they always present their unfounded claims as "evidence" while steadfastly ignoring all the real evidence
If you knew about creationism, you would know that we do not ignore any apparent "real" evidence. No stone is left unturned.
And of course you can find the answer in the Bible about where God came from. The answer is nowhere. God didn't have a beginning, He has always existed. That is what the Bible teaches and that is what we believe. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 9:49:58 AM | foryou
antibiotic resistance is not evolution. That is adaptation and we all agree that happens.
Adaptations are traits that have been selected by natural selection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptation
Therefore, it IS evolution.
Creationists do not believe in evolution, but all agree on adaptation.
This is like saying they do not believe in evolution, but they believe in evolution. And I'd have to agree with you, I often see creationists disbelieve evolution, but accept microevolution as though it isn't evolution.
The only mechanism for possible macro evolution is random mutations in dna. But if you look into the possibility of that, you'll see that it's less likely than throwing 2000 dice at once and they all land on the number 3.
People typically have 50-100 mutations. Some help, some hurt, most are neutral. The possibility of having at least one mutation - about 100%.
Also it is worth noting that nothing ever gains dna, they either lose dna or it mutates. So things don't actually get better.
Nothing gains DNA? I guess that explains why no baby was ever born, ever, in any species, as it would be gaining DNA in order to do so.
You're getting your lies mixed up. The lie you were supposed to say is that mutations do not add information. Keep the term 'information' completely vague, and if anyone asks what you mean, refuse to answer. And ignore anyone that demonstrates instances where genetic material is increased.
The benefit of a mutation depends largely on environment. For example, sickle cell anemia is a disease that deforms red blood cells, limiting their movement through blood vessels, reducing their ability to transport oxygen to the tissues, and reduces life expectancy. Clearly not a benefit right?
Not necessarily. Sickle cell anemia also makes people resistant to malaria (the deformed blood cells are not conducive to parasites), and areas where malaria is common, such as sub-sahara africa, people having sickle cell anemia is far more common because people with that mutation allows them to survive better in that environment than those without the mutation. Descendants of people from such regions are also more likely to get the disease.
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 10:09:32 AM | Because evolution is commonly known asanimals turning into different kinds (or species). Which doesn't happen.
I can see you have misunderstood. Reproduction is not macro evolution. We are talking about evolution here, not reproduction.
The probability chance example I gave was about macro evolution, referring to that of the whale. From what scientists think they came from. Scientists do now know if they came from a hyena-like, a cat-like or a hippopotamus-like animal, so for sake of argument, the hyena-like animal (called Pachyaena) was the example used.
When I said things don't get better, I was referring to dna. I chose my words badly. Sorry for the misunderstanding. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 1:46:25 PM | If you believe that the Earth is 6000 years old then you have no credibility on the subject of evolution.
when I say adaptation, I mean survival of the fittest in certain environments, not adaptaion of dna.
That's a clever way of molding one of Darwin's theories to fit your own needs. Just like the Bible, you want to pick and choose what parts you like, then mold them into something that works for you and then tell other people that it is fact rather than your own translation.
Scientists do now know if they came from a hyena-like, a cat-like or a hippopotamus-like animal
Really? Out of all the animals in the sea and all the animals with fins you couldn't pick a closer relative to the whale or were you wanting to sound rediculous. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 1:49:46 PM | Macro Evolution doesn't exist to have an opinion on anyway.
I haven't picked and chosen anything. We see that adaptation in species happens. That's why there are many breeds of dogs etc. That's why disease can become resistant to drugs.
I didn't pick those animals, that was the choice of the evolution "scientists". | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 2:12:17 PM | Really? Out of all the animals in the sea and all the animals with fins you couldn't pick a closer relative to the whale or were you wanting to sound rediculous.
Strange but true, the whale is descended from land mammals and is the closest relative to hippo's. | |
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| Did Something come from Nothing?
Posted: 4/11/2008 2:14:28 PM | I haven't picked and chosen anything. We see that adaptation in species happens. That's why there are many breeds of dogs etc. That's why disease can become resistant to drugs.
Then why do you pick the word adaptation to explain what is widely understood as evolution? Adaptation is a layman's term for natural selection. You clearly believe in evolution so long as it's called adaptation because evolution is the anti christ. | |
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