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 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 326
Dating within' your LeaguePage 14 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
"League" is some man made barrier to keep people from dating who they dont like and have an excuse that seems logical. Blah blah blah.
 sweetlikesugarcane
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 327
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/24/2010 6:16:33 PM
George Clooney hasn't looked good in about ten years....
 mzincorrigible
Joined: 2/11/2010
Msg: 328
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/24/2010 6:32:39 PM
Dag-nabbit. I don't even play ball.......

Either I'm comfortable with them or not, and vice versa.

Not everybody is held back because of the so-called "league" difference.

Bunch of rot, as far as I'm concerned.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 329
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/24/2010 7:29:32 PM

Not everybody is held back because of the so-called "league" difference.

Yep -- not everyone is. But people who cringe at it don't like to hear about things that might potentially hold them (or other people who need encouragement) back. Some people like to be in denial that people CAN be a better catch than themselves, or able to find better catches than themselves. Egos get sensitive to that notion... and admittedly, depressed people will get more depressed if they think about that at all lol

"League" is some man made barrier to keep people from dating who they dont like and have an excuse that seems logical.

I don't think that at all. It's in terms of what someone WOULD like -- a lot... but many times used as a reason not to make a move. One doesn't have to say "out of my league" -- that's just one way of describing that the other person is of a higher dating value than you'd be able to obtain in most circumstances.

Of course, I encourage people NOT to focus on approaching others out of your league, if rejection hits ya hard. If someone tries to brainwash themselves into thinking there's no such thing as a person being a more attractive entity than another (oneself included to make themselves feel better), that's pretty dillusional. At the same time, one shouldn't let the FACT that there's a much higher % chance of the other lacking interest or rejecting ya if they have a significantly higher beauty & status level.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 330
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/24/2010 8:28:58 PM
This whole league thing reminds me of an experience I had(when I believed such things) while in school.

I was doing volunteer work for a museum at a public event. It was a new museum, and we were trying to generate membership, BUT it happened to be in a large public venue.

I saw this woman, very attractive, maybe 24 or 25, I was 20. I stopped her and engaged in conversation about our project. Then took a break and walked around the event with her(obviously I wanted to see her).

She was working in DC, as an aide to a congressman, going to Georgetown for her masters. To this day, I believe she liked me, as she didn't exactly blow me off. My own insecurities, due to her position, my position having been in a lower level job days, while attending college at night. That I believe, was the ONLY reason she and I didn't try and see where it goes. I was intimidated by her position, age, looks and education.

I never really focused on that incident, until I was reading this thread again. After a few years in business, with my degree, as my career caught fire, I NEVER saw a single woman, no matter how smart, how attractive, how rich nor how old, that I felt I couldn't approach.

Some of the women I dated were knockouts, one was a runner up in a state for Ms. America. I dated very intelligent women with multiple degrees and or PHD's. Did I get turned down by some, sure. Did it bother me, a little, nobody likes to feel rejection. Did it stop me from approaching another woman of equal or higher "dating value" than the last or me, he11 no!!

As far as I can tell, and I don't mean to belittle anybody. The only ones who REALLY seem to believe in this concept, or embrace it, are those who truly need it to justify a standard, or class. Kind of like I said earlier, in high school, where egos were more fragile and someone wanted to feel better about themselves at someone elses expense.

As far as I can see, from the men and women I've met and seen, from many places. They pick who they are attracted too. That may well mean, a woman who some of you would clasify, below your "dating value" may well turn you down, because she doesn't see a match, same with guys.
 Michaell38
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 331
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 6:01:22 AM
Heard an interesting comment the other day. A woman i know used to date a guy 10 years older than her. Her friends used to say to her " He's too old and you're too attractive for him"
 forumrum
Joined: 5/25/2009
Msg: 332
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 8:59:06 AM
The term "league" may not be the most appropriate, but I would not date someone with a substantially lower income or a substantially lower education. I'm not here to support someone or to have to dumb down conversation.

Not sure looks come into it. We are all attracted to different types but one thing I have noticed is that the so called "hot" ones from high school don't have much going for them today because they got along on their looks and now that age has caught up with them they have nothing else going for them. Tons of ladies profiles on here where looks are all they have.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 333
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 9:21:02 AM

As far as I can tell, and I don't mean to belittle anybody. The only ones who REALLY seem to believe in this concept, or embrace it, are those who truly need it to justify a standard, or class.

Believing in the concept and embracing it are two completely different things. There is no doubt the concept exists. I can easily group women into those to whom I'm physically attracted and those to wom I'm not. My grouping will not be identical to anyone else's, but I have no doubt that the overlap would be enough to identify women that most men would find more physically attractive than others. The most physically attractive women would therefore have more options and i general, a ten would select a ten and so on, if that was all there was to choosing a person to date. You can call that whatever you want, but ``league' fits.

On the other hand, embracing the concept means believing physical attraction is the only factor in dating or that it overwhelms everything else. That is obviously wrong at least in my personal experience as a very average looking guy that at least a few very attractive women found some reason to date. For that reason, I've never thought I would automatically be excluded by anyone because I'm not Brad Pitt (or the current flavor of the month).

However, if I contacted only women who were tens indiscrimately with the expectation that my looks alone ought to reel them in, I'm sure I'd be in for a rude awakening. The reason some people do embrace the concept is probably because they place so much value on appearance, everyone else does as well and can't imagine that looks aren't everything.

It certainly doesn't hurt to have an idea of where you really fall as far as your attributes are concerned so you know the best way to sell yourself to the people you want to date. Lots of things are negotiable, so if someo woman is a ten and I'm a five, I'm going to offer something she values and nake sure she's aware of it. In that sense, you could only talk about leagues if you included a great many things and differentiated between people who really have nothing to offer (which is probably very few) and people who are a ten in every way possible (few people if any). So for most people in the middle, the concept of being or not being in someone's league overall is pretty meaningless apart from recognizing what one has to offer and making that evident.
 DivineBovine
Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 334
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Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 9:23:34 AM

A woman i know used to date a guy 10 years older than her. Her friends used to say to her " He's too old and you're too attractive for him"


after my ex-fiance and i split up, i heard something similar from people - "he wasn't good enough for you". one person said he was too old and too fat.

and he was younger than me and i'm not likely to walk any runways any time soon...

i wasn't sure if this was some attempt to console me or what.

as for "out of my league" - i know i have limited options due to my size. i only email people to tell them i liked their profile. and 99.99% of the time, i don't hear back because i'm sure they're going "ewwww, a fat chick wrote to me".
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 335
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Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 9:31:28 AM
I may choose to not date someone with a substantially higher income and education......only because of their attitudes........not because I'm not in their "league".

Someone that thinks they are better than me because they make more money......or because they can talk politics or economics with more knowledge.......
just isn't the type of person I care to be around.

If they make more money......and have a higher education.........or even are drop dead gorgeous.......but have a fun personality without the "attitude".......then sure, I will have no issue asking them out.

I may not be beautiful , have a degree and makes gobs of money.....but I'm a hell of a woman that has earned her way in life through pure grit and determination and I will never be intimidated by looks or power.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 336
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 10:23:28 AM
Abelian, perhaps I worded it poorly. Surely the concept exists, how much you let it effect you I guess is where I differ. Then again I view myself differently than most. I'm aware of my shortcomings, but by nature, I also view my strength of personality as a "roach", I would survive nuclear winter!! My ego is not so fragile, that I would not be able to approach ANYBODY. In many cases, in fact most, I'm the one who is more picky.

Having said that however, I found the next two posts of interest. Divine and Micki make an interesting case study to me.

Both women are obviously attractive, smart(from their posts) and independent. Would I date them, hmmmm, hard to say for sure, one absolutely, the other not sure. Divine is the "for sure" one, she seems more in tuned with who I am. Micki I would have to think about, is she politically right or left? When I go on one of my tirades about BP, would she think me crazy or see it similarly? Maybe politics is not her thing. BUT as she said "I'm a he11 of a woman" which means to me, she is a strong individual.

Divine, may get rejected by the dolts on here, doesn't mean she is less than other women, due to a few pounds. If the guys measure life in terms of that alone, I think them shortsighted.

In the end, it is the commonalities that will get you through, as well as the attraction. Looks fade, as far as I know, no one gets out alive. It is the journey you share with the woman, that makes it worthwhile, not the shape of her body or the cut of her face and figure.

IMO!
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 337
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Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 12:35:54 PM
It's not that us "common" folk don't have opinions on politics and the economy...
or are clueless about what is going on.
I actually have very strong opinions about alot of topics......I just may not know all the "technical" terms or correct names of the politicians and big businesses I have opinions about!
What my previous post was about........was the fellow above that said he doesn't like to "dumb it down" for a lesser educated person.
That is the "attitude" I don't care to date.....has nothing to do with me thinking he is out of my league because of his schooling or money.
He has his type of "smarts"...........and I have mine.

What makes a good relationship is being able to learn from each other.........each individual brings their own "strong points" to the table without holding it over the other.
An example........my ex-husband was a very gifted wood worker.
But he was totally clueless on fractions and angles.
I taught him how to do the math he needed when designing a piece.....and he taught me how to use all his woodworking tools!
He can now do his own figuring.......and I can build just about anything I need!
 cinsav
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 338
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 12:52:41 PM

Believing in the concept and embracing it are two completely different things. There is no doubt the concept exists. I can easily group women into those to whom I'm physically attracted and those to wom I'm not. My grouping will not be identical to anyone else's, but I have no doubt that the overlap would be enough to identify women that most men would find more physically attractive than others. The most physically attractive women would therefore have more options and i general, a ten would select a ten and so on, if that was all there was to choosing a person to date. You can call that whatever you want, but ``league' fits.


I completely disagree with that. One category does not qualify as a "league" - they are two completely different aspects of the bigger picture.

So what you're saying is that an exotic dancer is in the same "league" as a gorgeous Wall Street power broker (if they're equal in physical attractiveness)? No way; not even close.

Having a college degree doesn't put you in a "league" it puts you in a category.
Being attractive doesn't put you in a league, it puts you in a category.
Having money doesn't put you in a league, it puts you in a category.

The combination of all those categories (including the ones I didn't mention) together COLLECTIVELY put you in a "league."
 english lass
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 339
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/25/2010 1:19:21 PM
I think that some may feel out of another's league if their perception of what's important is represented more clearly in that other person... ie. If someone is focused on outer appearances, then an apparently more attractive person may be someone they feel is out of their 'league', even if they themselves might be more wealthy... likewise, if someone believes that power/money is something of major importance, they may feel that a person who is more powerful/richer than they, is out of their league, even if they themselves are more physically prepossessing

I believe it's more a subjective reflection of how each person measures another... sometimes it may be in one way, sometimes many

and thus not everyone will agree on what league someone should be
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 340
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 10:46:16 AM

So what you're saying is that an exotic dancer is in the same "league" as a gorgeous Wall Street power broker (if they're equal in physical attractiveness)? No way; not even close.

I think you're confusing 'leagues' with 'types'. The exotic dancer is a different type than the guy being a wall-street broker. Here's what I mean:

Say you're a fly on the wall at a bar. You see one guy lean over to his friend after a gal walks by them, say "Dude, she's out of your league". Okay -- what did he mean by that? He's not really saying she's not your type or you're not her type (although 'you're not her type' can be the nice (in slang) way of saying she's out of your league).

He's saying she's -clearly- hotter than you are. But what does that mean? How does he know? Okay, here's what it means down to the nuts & bolts: She can get a better catch of a guy pretty readily, than him. A guy with more looks & status than him, as far as the dating market is concerned.

If two wall-street guys are sitting at a bar, and what seems to be an exotic dancer is walking by (after work I guess), one wouldn't say to the other necessarily, "She's out of your league". In fact, a median-level attractive wall-street guy & exotic dancer gal are desirable in the dating market. Maybe not to YOU or I necessarily, but it's their 'stock price'.

The combination of all those categories (including the ones I didn't mention) together COLLECTIVELY put you in a "league."

I kind of agree in some way. They are factors... fame can be another one. Education is what gets you money -- so I wouldn't separate those two. A good amount of money or a lack thereof will get you more status or lack of status... a higher education (that's recognizable to the market) will increase your status, and a lack thereof will lessen it by default, too. Fame will increase it.

That's why I just say looks+status. Different factors are applied differently when it comes to status with females vs males, but all in all, it's not about one being the same 'type', it's just -- how different are you as far as a dating commodity goes in the market?
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 341
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 11:06:34 AM
as an example, would we see Megan Fox going out with or marrying Drew Carey? it seems highly unlikely.

Or a top female lawyer or surgeon going out with or marrying a ditch-digging man?
these things can happen but are so rare as to be highly noticeable. The reverse situation might be more likely, a top male lawyer/surgeon getting with a beautiful woman who was a waitress, etc. but in that case she'd probably quit and he'd support her. .still a bit of a taboo against women supporting men

I can see it happening it it was a much older woman with a younger muscular 'hot' man taht she would have as her boy-toy, but not as a relationship of 'equals'
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 342
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Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 3:19:18 PM
I think you might be surprised how many high powered women are married to "blue collar" workers.
I actually know quite a few in my area.
They went to school while raising the kids.....and then went to work when the kids
were old enough to not need a full time mommy.

You might also be surprised by the number of men that are staying home and raising the babies and taking care of the house while the women are out earning the big bucks.

It is a totally different world out there these days.
 xlr8ingmargo
Joined: 7/28/2009
Msg: 343
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 3:27:31 PM
^^^ and a different economy. What works is great and finding happiness is the issue.
Not some stupid league.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 344
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 3:52:13 PM
^^^^^ -- No, what she's describing is a change in the "market". It has nothing to do with the fact that some people are not marketable in the dating market, and others are very much so. That's all leagues mean -- a description of a wide difference in marketability -- THAT'S IT!

The only way there could be no such thing as "leagues" (as appropriately/commonly used), is that everyone's tastes in others of the opposite sex would have to be random -- there would be no such thing as models of today, as there would be no such thing as a "hottie" or one who is "ugly" by popular opinion. There would be NO such thing as popular opinion -- it'd be evenly dispursed -- which it is not at all -- not by a longshot.

What she described has just in modern times affected the market -- maybe a little. But popular opinion liked in the past vs the present doesn't mean there were leagues but no leagues (or vice versa). Again, "leagues" just means a wide difference in dating marketability. That's it. And such differences exist. Some people's egos are just too sensitive to handle that.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 345
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Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 7:08:11 PM
And some people's ego's are too big too grasp there are a vast majority of people that don't think in "leagues".

Just because you believe in it.......doesn't make it so for everyone.

Dateable, marketable, physical attraction......bleh......they are all subjective to individuals.
Popular opinion doesn't mean squat to me if I personally don't find the person attractive.

My point in all this........none of that have anything to do with my life.
I pick and choose who I date on "who" they are.......not "how" they look .... nor
where they work. In my life.....there are no leagues. I don't consider someone that works in a high powered job to be better than me and off limits. Nor do I consider myself beneath anyone with a better job or is better looking than myself.

You can argue till your blue in the face that these "leagues" exist.....but it only means
they exist for you and others that buy into that crap.
 ~Azul Ojos~
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 346
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 7:49:15 PM
I haven't read much of this forum; just the last few and I laughed when I read it and felt I had to contribute.

My first thought was there are leagues??? Then I thought about the people I date, and realized I guess so. Normally, there is a natural progression towards like minds and commonalities (there are a few exceptions). I only seem to be drawn to people of similar experiences and people I can relate to.

Here is an example. The last couple of nights I have been out with a group of people. One guy was highly amusing and the life of the party and just so much fun and friendly. Another guy was calm, quiet, interesting, but not lively... The guy I was more interested in would be the non party animal... because he is more like me... I just feel like minded people are drawn towards each other for many reasons.

Now, I do feel and have experienced that some people don't care what a person's personality /commonalities are like but tend to be rather shallow and just want the most attractive person to be connected with... Some people just want the most attractive, and usually the most drama laden queens in their lives. They don't know any better, and are happy in that situation, or in constant survival mode which keeps their adrenalin pumping. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that these people need to stick together... So, yes there are leagues... Like minds, no minds, etc need to stick together.

I have to comment on this:

ok, in pure statistical sense, yes if you are sampling over thirty examples and rating them, you will get a normal distribution curve and the average, mean and mode will indeed be 5. And again in purely statistical sense you realize that half of the people you meet are below average......


Really!!! I work with the bell curve everyday and according to my training 30% of the population are within the average range, which leaves 35% below and above average...

Which in actual fact, doesn't mean a dang thing......just sayin!!!


 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 347
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Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 8:03:03 PM
I'm not sure I follow where "like minded people" have anything to do with these so called leagues.


One guy was highly amusing and the life of the party and just so much fun and friendly. Another guy was calm, quiet, interesting, but not lively... The guy I was more interested in would be the non party animal... because he is more like me... I just feel like minded people are drawn towards each other for many reasons.


So, does the non party animal have a white collar or blue collar job?
Is he above average looking?
If he lived in a completely different "class" than you would it put you off?
These are the things being described as "leagues".
You basically are saying you prefer someone over another because of personality.
That has nothing to do with "leagues"
 ~Azul Ojos~
Joined: 7/2/2008
Msg: 348
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/26/2010 8:19:35 PM
My thought is that like minded people are in the same league, similiar upbringing, experiences etc.

So, Yes, I did go with personalities and upbringing rather than monetary means....

The guys in my example actually worked the same job, so I am assuming they earn similiar incomes.

I find money /income doesn't buy class. You either have it or you don't. It doesn't come with money. Some of the richest people I have known have been the tackiest. Then again, I have known educated people who hardly have any money to be very respectful and classy people.

So, if leagues are the amount of money you earn then that makes it even more subjective and laughable... I am not impressed with a wealthy, obnoxious person. A polite, well bred person would be in a higher league to me.
 DrummingNut
Joined: 4/26/2010
Msg: 349
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/27/2010 7:12:39 AM
If I were a very rich person...
(and I mean this seriously)...
I would go to Smallsville (figure of speech) to seek a mate.

As for "are there or aren't there" leagues...
there will always be those who think themselves "better than"..
ALWAYS will be...
and hence, there will always be leagues.

If someone is sitting there thinking/feeling/believing they are "better than" me?
Gheeeze... I have NO interest in meeting them!
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 350
Dating within' your League
Posted: 6/27/2010 11:54:43 AM

And some people's ego's are too big too grasp there are a vast majority of people that don't think in "leagues".

I never argued, at all, that everyone uses the term 'league' or abides by classifying things as leagues or always says "she/he's out of your league" and so forth. I'm talking about the existence of 'leagues' refers to. It's a fact, whether one likes it or not. Although moot to what I've been asserting, a vast majority of the people are at least indirectly aware of the actual existence of what 'league' refers to (desirability factor).

Popular opinion doesn't mean squat to me if I personally don't find the person attractive.

It doesn't matter what you FEEL or how YOU go about it, nor about how I FEEL or go about it. It's that there IS such a thing as popular opinion, when it comes to people's attraction. You can take a particular self-help book's advice and refuse to think about that, fine. Or even go into denial. I'm not saying one HAS to dwell on it, in fact, they shouldn't so much at all. What I'm saying is that popular opinion on people's desirability exists.

'League': The general range of one's desirability in reference to the masses of the opposite sex.

If you don't believe 'leagues' exist, then you are saying that no one person is desired higher by the masses than another, which is pure BS. It's a fact, and we all know that. You can decide not to THINK about that, and hey, I encourage people not to dwell on that, as they can get too arrogant or depressed, depending on what boat they're in.

You can say that using the TERM 'leagues' makes the fact that some people are more desired by the masses than other people, sound demeaning. That's fine. But that doesn't make what it refers to as non-existent.
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