| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/14/2008 7:00:58 PM | I think I get it. If I invite to meet, I'm obligated to pay for both meals, which is cool. Like I said, better the opportunity than none at all; and that first impression is important. If she pays for her share, I can take the hint, but I'll just see what happens afterwards and go from there, instead of making snap judgments. If she invites me out to meet, I'd be happy for at least paying my own share, even if she offers. If she insists, I'll at least leave the tip. This, no matter if I find her unappealing or not. No payoff from me, just common courtesy. Thanks for the advice everyone!
I should explain my definition of payoff, or I should say "pay off". I think of payoff as the reward given from winning a game. But "pay off" (two separate words) is to give money to someone in order to compensate them for their time and also to ensure that you will not deal with them again. I should have been using "pay off" this whole time and not "payoff" (as a reward, ie sex, for dining and drinking arrangements). | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:07:56 AM | | I suppose it is just my personal beliefs to not pay for dates. I love when guys hold the door, pick up the cheque, just me I suppose :). | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/28/2008 5:01:22 AM | Yes... I have noticed that men think I don't want to see them again if I offer to pay for my half of the bill.
BUT...
Many also seem to think I am just out to get a free meal if I don't offer to pay my half.
Can't win. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/28/2008 5:25:26 AM |
There are a lot of women who use an offer to pay as a test. If you take her up on it, she figures you're cheap. If you've been falling for that, it's too bad, but mostly for them.
What I'd do, when she offers to pay, is make a joke out of it. "Now, you aren't doing this just to see how cheap I am, are you? Let me tell you how cheap I really am. I only picked this place because I'm friends with the owner and he never lets me pay. So, you might just want to hang on to that."
Me? If a woman tests me like that I'm more than happy to get thrown back. I like a woman who says what she means and means what she says.
Goodness me, regardless of who pays you certainly do sound cheap with a line like that. It would certainly stop me ever dating you again.
What if she is saying what she means and means what she says when she offers to pay. You have certainly insulted her with a response like that.
Many women like to keep the play square on a first date. A nice dinner out is worth it just for the company and the night out, and if you both hit it off with sparks that is an added bonus, and I wouldn't think the norm. Once you become firm friends and do it often you can play 'who pays.'
Stop trying to score points and just enjoy yourself. Dating and dinners out with new and interesting people is part of the fun of being single. Relax, Enjoy it. Be cool. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/28/2008 5:34:05 AM | As a manwhore or so My ex girflriend used to call me. Its nice to have the woman buy you dinner. Or pay their half usually I would pay. When seeing a movie on a first date I go dutch. unless we made out prior to the movie and I am assured that the relationship is going somewhere. i worka crappy retail job and won;t be able to start my careerr until I am done with school. Unless i cna get something decent when I get a few tech certifications. I Don't mind a girl paying ehr half and if she buys me dinner she is getting some! And forget about it if she cooked me dinner then I am going down town! Becuase she earned it.  | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/28/2008 1:03:57 PM | Jaine,
You didn't get the joke. I'm saying this while I'm obviously getting out my credit card or cash to pay the bill.
I have a three strikes rule. If I hear "no" three times, I take it at face value. No matter how much I want to hear a yes, it's clearly no, and I accept that. I actually do know what the word means and have even been known to use the it in a sentence from time to time.
It works the other way too. If a woman I don't yet know all that well repeats her offer to pay, I'll take up up on it the 3rd time she mentions it.
Once could be either politeness or testing. Twice could be too. However, no one who doesn't want to pay is likely to mention it a third time. At that point I'm pretty clear that she means what she's saying. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/28/2008 4:40:21 PM | OP...I don't think I would consider a woman paying for the bill a "payoff," but since all women are different...I could be wrong. On dates, I ALWAYS offer to pay my share...and most of the time I do. I will even pay the entire tab if I really like the guy. Women are more independent & most don't mind paying their way. Of course, many of us still like some chivalry, especially if YOU asked us out to the most expensive restaurant in town...haha!
I have a funny story that everyone got a kick out of. I went on a date several months ago. I drove straight from work in pouring rain & rush hour traffic an hour away to meet him at his house. We were then going to a sporting event (which he got free tickets for). In my rush to get to his house, I forgot to stop for cash (I always use my debit card). Once off the interstate, I looked for a bank to stop at...& found none. I know most places take debit, but I didn't want to chance it. So...we got in his car & I ask him to stop at the bank (since I wasn't too familiar with the area & where the banks were). He says to me, "Don't worry about it. I've got it covered." Ok...we ended up at the sporting event & went straight to the seats. I thought it was a bit rude of him to not even ask if I'd like something to drink or eat. He knew I came straight from work & it's 7pm at this point. I was hungry & I wanted a beer. So...seeing that they took debit cards, I got up from my seat & said I was going to get a beer & something to eat. He got up & went with me. Long story short, he said he'd buy the beer if I got the food, which is what happened. It normally wouldn't be a big deal...BUT remember...he told me not to worry about stopping at the bank as he was covering it. Also...they food I bought us was definitely more than the beer he bought us. I would've preferred to have just bought my own beer & food altogether...LOL. It just was rude on his part, especially since I spent a good amount in gas just to drive to his house for him to take me to a FREE game & not pay for what he said he had covered. My friends & family were in hysterics laughing...especially becuase they know I will cover my own way. That date was awful...LOL! | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:26:06 AM | | Dude, if the chick pays for the date, great! What are you complaining about? If she wasn't feeling you, then at least you got that nice meal dunny! | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/29/2008 1:50:37 AM | if the chick pays for the date, great! What are you complaining about? If she wasn't feeling you, then at least you got that nice meal
Clearly the OP was hoping for something longer-lasting than a free meal!
Agreed with many on here I would use the 'pay for' offer as a clear signal that I was no longer interested in the man romantically.
I think a man should expect to pay for the date fully if he expects to be taken seriously. I always go prepared to pay my half, but if this relatively paltry sum of money is going to be a cause of contention on the first date, then that alone would turn me off as the guy being a penny-pinching cheapskate. If a man finds that he is getting in debt because dates are costing too much - then he should take her somewhere cheaper! Although she certainly doesnt want to feel part of a conveyor belt, or embarrassed that he might not be able to afford it.
Sometimes in the past I have offered to pay my half, or buy him a drink, my date has been offended and as a consequence I no longer offer. And I think that my reasoning for offering to pay on a date has been an attempt to take some control of it. Most women like a man with prowess and a good way of demonstrating that early on would be his choice of venue and he pays.
I would expect my date to pay for us both a few times whilst we get to know each other, and after I got to know him and felt happy with the way the relationship was going then I would invite him to my place for dinner. My treat. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/29/2008 4:02:01 AM | When I’m out with someone new, I always offer to pay half on dates. It has nothing to do with whether or not I’d like to see the man again—I think it’s a fair way to go, especially for the first few dates where we’re really about getting to know each other and trying to determine compatibility. I won’t belabor it if someone insists, but I will offer…sometimes I’ll just insist to pay half too—most are okay with this. I surprised that some men assume that this means that the women aren’t interested. Personally, if I don’t want to see someone again, I’ll say so at the end of the date…no point muddling communication on this…it’s better to be direct.
I’ve never equated or understood the notion of a guy buying me dinner equates with: he has received a green light to escalate the relationship sexually. Dinner dates are opportunities to find out about each other in public places. I love to cook…so inviting a guy over or showing up and cooking for him at his house is so much more personal and intimate--as is the venue. For the savvy guy who can connect the dots...this is more of true indicator of I’m feeling about that person and where things may go next.
And totally agree with below:
"On dates, I ALWAYS offer to pay my share...and most of the time I do. I will even pay the entire tab if I really like the guy. Women are more independent & most don't mind paying their way. Of course, many of us still like some chivalry, especially if YOU asked us out to the most expensive restaurant in town...haha! " | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:31:50 PM | its best to go for drink first lol
have found from expance its very hard to get out of a diner lol the windows are to small in bath room lol | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:15:06 PM | It actually is pretty simple to figure out when a woman paying for her dinner on a first date is a "payoff". The guy just has to put in a little careful pre-date investigation into determining if she is an entitlement princess (hereafter labeled "traditional lady") or not (hereafter labeled "progressive woman").
Lets say it is unknown if the woman is a "traditional lady" or "progressive woman". The guy invites her to dinner anyhoo. No mention has been made until the check comes regarding who is paying for what. As the inviter, you are responsible for payment. Remember no mention has been made regarding payment. If she asks to pay half, that most likely is a polite payoff.
Of course a guy avoids the whole scenario by not making a dinner invitation for the first date. Make an invitation for a coffee or happy hour drink. Remember the inviter pays.
It's important for the guy, when it determined that both people want to meet, to make some sort of determination if the woman is a "traditional lady" or "progressive woman". A guy ought to know this by carefully reviewing the lady's profile, interpreting the e-mail correspondences, and making a read of what her sense of entitlement is during phone conversations that lead up to the determination to meet.
In this scenario (guy makes coffee or dinner invitation), a woman paying for her coffee or drink does NOT mean a "payoff". I wouldn't suggest that a guy invest any mental energy trying to make a read in that situation. Go with the flow, think positive.
Usually when a man and woman decide to meet, the guy usually makes the invitation. I suggest to a "progressive single male" if you think the woman is a "traditional lady" but decide to meet her anyway, ask her to have a coffee with you and ask her to pick the coffeehouse. The "traditional lady" who is looking for the meal will try to steer you into inviting her to a restaurant. Don't go there. Insist on treating her to a coffee at the coffeehouse of her choice. It's likely at that point she'll decide not to meet you. The guy has saved himself spending both his money and time on what likely is a situation going nowhere. If she decides to meet you for coffee, give her the benefit of a doubt that she is a "progressive woman" until she proves otherwise.
Now let's say man and woman decide to meet, the guy offers coffee as mentioned above, and the woman is a "progressive" and is thinking a dinner date is more appropriate. She states to the guy "thanks for the offer, but I suggest having a meal instead, and I'll pay half. What do you say about that?" This strategy works for everybody. The "traditional gentleman" wouldn't have suggested the coffee date, so she isn't offending the guy with that comment. The "progressive single male" now isn't wondering what an unpromised offer to pay half the bill actually means.
Of course if you are a "traditional gentleman", or have lots of disposable income, you don't need to worry about any of this line of thinking. You make the dinner invitation and you're paying regardless, and you're not concerned about interpreting any offer to pay she may potentially make.
This ought to cover most scenarios. There's absolutely nothing preventing the "traditional gentleman" from dating the "traditional woman". I've got no advice to "traditional gentlemen" regarding how to read if a woman paying for dinner is making a "payoff". | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/30/2008 11:40:17 AM |
A guy ought to know this by carefully reviewing the lady's profile, interpreting the e-mail correspondences, and making a read of what her sense of entitlement is during phone conversations that lead up to the determination to meet. New to the dating scene are you? They paint the picture they want you to see.
And besides..... there is NO way in hell a male knows what they are thinking. Lol
If it's your second date and you're absolutely crazy about her, then why even let it come up? Go to the restaurant before hand and let them swipe your card. When you're done and ready to leave, you just sign, and you're out of there before she can blink. "Time to hit the blues club baby"
Try to keep uncomfortable "pay" moments from creeping up. If they do, keep 'em real short and be nonchalant about it. And if you can chew gum and walk at the same time, keep her distracted with a few quick questions so she doesn't have time to interrupt you. Then you're outta there. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:34:57 PM |
New to the dating scene are you? They paint the picture they want you to see. No doubt about that, but when a guy is in doubt about a woman's affection for him and whether she typically behaves as a "traditional lady" or a "progressive woman", why not keep it simple (coffee/happy hour) instead of complicating things (dinner with little idea of who pays). If when talking to a woman who really is a "traditional lady" and is she acts the opposite way, then you take the "progressive woman" approach with her (don't invite her to dinner); a $5/$10 bill shouldn't be a problem. If fully absorbing this bill is a problem for the guy, then don't make a coffee/happy hour invitation, think of something else. Eventually the "traditional lady" will show disinterest in a guy who isn't inviting her to dinner.
I merely proposed a way for a guy to proceed from mutually expressed desire to meet to the point of dinner bill payment without having to ponder if the woman offer to pay represents a "payoff", if that truly is a concern to the guy. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 4/30/2008 4:02:09 PM |
No doubt about that, but when a guy is in doubt about a woman's affection for him and whether she typically behaves as a "traditional lady" or a "progressive woman"
Surely the man should know what sort the woman is before they meet, what sort would he prefer? He shouldn't be tarting himself around to just anybody. The crux of the OP was that the female offered to pay AND THEN the relationship failed to progress. Maybe he should be a bit more selective before inviting her for a date, and make sure there is some sort of realistic potential before all that. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 7:45:14 AM | Just a quick question: Do you talk about money, trying to save, coupons or anything to indicate that you are a thrifty spender?
I have dated a guy once who spent a good part of the date talking about how he likes to save money in such detail that I just threw a $20 at him for the dinner because I did not want to set him back on his worldly plan. Needless to say I did not find it very romantic and it did not go very far.
I think a guy should pay for the first meal (if the place is a decent priced place because I would never let a guy take me somewhere expensive unless I knew there was potential already). I do think a woman can offer to give something, but it is the guys responsibility to decline. If you accept my money, although that is not a deal breaker per se, it does leave a bitter taste for the evening.
Good luck in the future. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 7:50:55 AM | | Just pay your own way on a date. It solves so many problems up front. In the past i have let men pay my way on a date and although i can't say they were pigs who expected anything, i just did not feel comfortable letting a stranger pay for anything for me. So for my own comfort i pay my own way. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 8:28:55 AM |
The crux of the OP was that the female offered to pay AND THEN the relationship failed to progress. That's only half of it. The OP mentioned three 1st dates where he invited the woman to enjoy a meal with him, the date was seemingly pleasurable for both parties, then the woman then volunteered to pay either for the whole meal, the tip, or most of the meal, and then the OP was wondering what to make of that behavior after she appeared to be unresponsive to his follow-up correspondences.
He shouldn't be tarting himself around to just anybody. What does tarting mean? I'm unfamiliar with the term. Do you mean seeking a disrespectful dalliance? I can't see how a guy inviting a lady who is essentially total stranger to enjoy a coffee with him is necessarily representative of someone seeking a disrespectful dalliance.
Surely the man should know what sort the woman is before they meet, what sort would he prefer? Correct, that's why I suggested the guy not make the invite for dinner WITH NO MENTION OF WHO PAYS FOR WHAT if he has concerns about interpreting what it means when a woman offers to pay half the bill.
Maybe he should be a bit more selective before inviting her for a date, and make sure there is some sort of realistic potential before all that. That's exactly what I suggested; if a guy isn't interested in dating a "traditional woman", he should generally not make dinner offers to a woman who essentially is a total stranger. Then he's not left scratching his head wondering what her inability to communicate effectively actually represents.
Of course the best tact when a guy chooses to date a "traditional woman" is just to pay for the bill and not waste mental energy pondering this question. If he is a "traditional gentlemen", he doesn't care if the woman is a bad communicator; he simply advances past that fact and seeks another "traditional woman" to date. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 8:30:50 AM | My thoughts on this is, way to many times a woman will go on a date just to have something to do, and get a free meal. And Im sure if a woman wanted to be honest, she would tell you the same thing. I usually like to talk and get a feel on how she represents
herself on certain things. That lets me know if I want to meet her. First meeting is coffee, to see if there is an attraction and a connection. Then if all goes well, then a date and see what happens. Even then sometimes you get screwed into paying for them, because they can really put on an act of really careing for you. You will see the meaning of cheap here! But, in general thats the way it goes. If a woman does pick up the tab, then you have to respect her on it. That shows character! Just a slight 2 cents worth of experience talking! Think before acting, and use better judgement! Im sure you will see a differance in how you will respond to this dating thing. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 9:49:25 AM | By tarting I mean - not being selective and appearing desperate or too nonchalant. Women can pick up on these things and don't like to feel they are not special in some way.
He should be more assertive and just say when he invites her out how it is going to be and stop p*ssyfooting* around.
*creeping like a cat | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 2:39:57 PM |
I think a guy should pay for the first meal (if the place is a decent priced place because I would never let a guy take me somewhere expensive unless I knew there was potential already). I do think a woman can offer to give something, but it is the guys responsibility to decline. If you accept my money, although that is not a deal breaker per se, it does leave a bitter taste for the evening.
Ladies,
If being taken up on your offer to pay is going to leave a bitter tasted in your mouth, I'd much prefer it if you didn't make the offer.
If you think that a guy should pay, then that's what you think. Stick with it.
If you think that it should be equal, stick with that.
Either way, we'll be throwing back some potentially great catches. But at least we'll all know where we stand. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/1/2008 2:55:23 PM | If being taken up on your offer to pay is going to leave a bitter tasted in your mouth, I'd much prefer it if you didn't make the offer. How could someone who says things disingenuously be offended when their bluff is called? That makes no sense. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/2/2008 6:28:45 AM | OP....
For me, I'm so turned off that men don't consider the first date a date at all. Meetings take place at work, but when a man asks a woman out... whether it's coffee, movie or meal, to me that's a date.
The only time I've ever paid for a meal on a first date was when the guy forgot his money, and I really didn't mind. But, I hadn't felt any chemistry for him and told him so the next day.... which he may have thought it was due to my having to pay for dinner.
I don't mind paying for dinner at all. The next date, I would be the one paying. When I go out for drinks with someone, I always buy drinks back. There aren't any set rules and I don't think about if I like someone or not as the reason I pay or don't pay.
In the end, it's all about chemistry and I don't think it has anything to do with who pays.
Sharzi | |
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