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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:11:25 PM |
With that dress I would expect you to pay the whole tab!
No seriously, good for you! I am sure this considerate and matronly attitude has blown your socks off with some verrrrrrrrrry sexy encounters .... 50/50 of course
To me, this quote reveals an attitude of superiority that I always wonder about when a woman insists that a guy must pay to play. Taking an underhanded swat at a woman who breaks ranks seems perfectly in character with a woman who appears to either want things the old way, or doesn't mind having it both ways.
... just sayin'.
My time and attention is valuable too. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:06:24 PM |
superiority
This is life! Equality does not exist outside a courtroom. Women make their choices freely and without ranks. All I am saying is what works for me.
My right I believe. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:23:00 PM | I don't EVER have this issue - but that's probably because I don't EVER let a lady pay for anything on a date, unless she just absolutely insists, and I've had VERY few do that.
Sure, plenty will feign an "offer" to pay half - but VERY often when they do that, what they're really saying is, "Well, do you like me, or not"? If you accept, and let them pay for the meal, or even just for their half, you might as well be saying "Nope, I sure don't".
Maybe it's a southern thing - but I just don't go there. I don't care how bad the date is, or how good the date is, or how expensive the restaurant is, or how cheap it is, or how pretty she is, or how homely she is, or any of that. I also don't care if I'm going to "get lucky" or if I think I'll probably never see her again. In my mind that has nothing to do with who pays for dinner. My dating money comes out of my entertainment budget, and once I make a date, I consider it spent. I have the same exact attitude when I go gambling in Vegas. I set aside the money, and consider it blown.
I realize there will be people, especially some of the men in here, who will get upset over this position, or accuse me of just trying to get into women's pants, or accuse me of being manipulative, or call me a "chump", or an "idiot", or preach equal rights at me like Gloria Allred on crack - or whatever else. That's just fine. As Montgomery Gentry says, "Hey I'll worry about me, and you just worry about you".
Mark
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:31:04 PM | "a guy must pay to play"
Actually Ace said "when a woman insists a man must pay to play". You are the one saying if a man doesn't pay you have no use for another date with him. Nice projection though.
"But I have met men with wit, good appearance and a listening ear! (and they pay)"
Good for them... I never said a man doesn't have the right to pay if he wants (although too many men like that does result in a princess/entitlement mentality).
"Unlike you I don't believe in 50/50 equality"
And I don't believe in being either master or servant. I'd much prefer a partnership with someone who will contribute equally to the relationship.
"and wouldn't dream of popping out for a pint of Guinness ... for a date."
Too cheap for you?
"But if you find yourself struggling to find a date"
Nope... and most of them have learned they don't always get a free ride in life.
" maybe you should ask the girls what they want. "
I do. If they want to treated like princesses or children I throw them back, if they want to be in a mutually fulfilling, balanced relationship, then we'll see where everything goes. Likewise, most of them ask me what I want. They realize it's not just about them. And if they think it is....back they go.
"By a woman paying her half, or for him, she is automatically taking control of where the date is going, what they are doing. The man is put into a submissive position where he accepts and runs along beside. "
Is the same not also true? Submission, servitide, or infantilization are not gender-specific or gender-exclusive.
"He is emasculated and deep down resents it ... all for the sake of the woman saying 'I can do this - I will take over.' That is why a lot of women don't do it - except when they think that the relationship is doomed and he has therefore lost his masculine attraction to her as a lover."
Yes, obviously most men deep down want to protect and provide for their fragile helpless woman... please. I would not resent it, I always think it's nice to meet a woman who is independent, fair, mature, self-actualizing, not superficial, and who can communicate clearly in a mature manner rather than relying on "signals" and "tests" and secret codes.
"Chivelry isn't dead, but that doesn't entitle anyone to take advantage of it. Dating is difficult enough for all of us, both emotionally and financially. "
This is a good point by Taken. There is a fine line between an occasional small gesture (liek holding a door or buying adrink), and an entitlement issue (like buying dinner on the first date as prerequisite for any future interactions). Likewise, many women don't want to be seen as anything less than mature, cpaable, and self-sufficient, and many men no longer want the type of bond that results from "buying" a woman's affection or otherwise performing grandiose mating dances simply to be in the good graces of a woman who values "what" he is instead of "who" he is.
"Romance is not dead - "
Certainly not. It's just not as financially based as it once was. This is a GOOD thing! It helps to allow a relationship to be built on what really matters at deeper levels, instead of shallow wants or desperate needs. Personally I think putting a price tag on love or making a date or a relationship into a financial transaction is about as UN-romantic as it gets! | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:42:33 PM | I have personal experience that may just answer some of your questions. I said yes to a guy that asked me out for coffee. So we meet at a coffee shop downtown. We had only seen photos of each other and he seemed normal enough in the photo. We talked on the phone to make sure we were still on, his voice sounded normal on the phone. I'm standing in the coffee shop with my back to the door and I hear a voice behind me say "Hi there". I turn around and don't see anyone. Then I look down. Oh he was there, he was just the size of a hobbit. Now don't get me wrong size doesn't matter to me (I'm talking height here boys), but if your the size of a hobbit you may want to warn the girl. I know girls that believe size is an issue and the guy must be taller than them so if your hobbit size, pre-warn the girl before you meet her in the flesh. Rejection online or over the phone is much easier to cope with than rejection in the flesh. His size wouldn't have turned me off meeting him, it just would have been better to know in advance that he was height challenged!
Anyway hobbit boy and I walk over and order our coffees totaling $5. The idiot does not make a move for his wallet at all. I stand there, he stands there - I think to myself your freaking kidding me. You asked me to coffee and you wont fork over a lousy $5. You just blew it big time buddy. I really want to take my coffee to go and walk away however, I'm basically a nice person. So I pull my wallet out of my handbag. Still no move on his part. He watched me pull $5 out of my wallet. I think there is no way in hell I'm paying for your coffee hobbit boy. So I turn to him and say "so I take it we are going halves in this". He says "OK" and pulls out a $20 note. I think this would be the time to redeem yourself buddy. Tell me you will pay. But no; I do not want to even attempt to make change with this guy so I turned to the coffee making dude and say "can we just pay for our own". We do and go and sit at a table. I did not want to share any part of myself with this man, so I make small talk and when I say small I mean really small - you could in fact call it miniscule talk. Hobbit boy had absolutely no social skills what so ever. I would have felt sorry for him if he'd have paid for my coffee, instead he just annoyed the hell out of me. So I made conversation about luggage, airport security, luggage again. Oh my gosh I looked at the clock and it was only 45 minutes later. I thought this has been the longest 45 minutes of my life. I have to stay at least an hour its the polite thing to do. I actually want to gouge out my eyes with the spoon sitting in my empty cup but I somehow manage to talk even more about luggage for 15 excruciating more minutes. As soon as the hour was up I told him I had to go. He asked if I wanted to do this again. He thought it was an awesome date. Lots of talking and me asking questions all about him. That is because I didn’t want to share anything about me. So I wanted to say no, I think doing my laundry by hand would be time better spent than wasting another second on you! Instead I say "I'll call you if I ever want to have coffee with you again". Really I shouldn't be so mean, after all he was probably saving his hard earned money for the quest to throw the ring of Sauron in the cracks of Doom!
In retrospect I am glad I paid for my own coffee, I don't feel bad that I will never see this guy again. He didn't spend a penny on me. So yes there are indeed times that when women pay, it is a payoff or goodbye I have no intention of seeing you again! | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:07:49 PM | Guinness
I don't drink Guinness, I never have drunk Guinness, I don't drink pints, I don't 'hang out' and I don't expect to pay if I think he has any potential.
free ride in life
Nothing in life is for free. I am just saying that this isn't necessarily about cash. Some things are far more subtle. This has nothing to do with a 'free ride' when a heart is on the line and some men can see the importance of that in the long term of a relationship.
obviously most men deep down want to protect and provide for their fragile helpless woman
Actually you hit the nail on the head. We ARE talking about romance arent we? Between men and women? Nothing is equal. There are no rules. Women choose and so do men, thankfully the mysteries of love are currently unpoliced by the dreaded 'pc' brigade. All I am saying is that the woman has more of the choice in choosing a partner and sometimes this is reflected as to whether she offers to pay for a date ... and if she offers? You have been warned!!! Console yourself at least that she is not on a 'free ride'.
You are making an issue out of something which is a free choice and you are therefore open to rejection as a result. It's too bad if you lose dating potential but I am just trying to understand why ... could it be the Guinness?? x | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:41:38 PM | "Nothing is for free. I am just saying that this isn't necessarily about cash. Some things are far more subtle. This has nothing to do with a 'free ride' when a heart is on the line and some men can see the importance of that in the long term of a relationship."
Apparently some women can't see it either... since they are more often the ones basing an entire relationship on the price of dinner. You say a heart is on the line, but you base an entire relationship on material things... or perhaps it's insecurity that requires others to do the dirty work or take on the risks. OR perhaps it's just that generation thing... certainly times have changed, and just as women are not limited or confined as they once were, men do not necessarily feel the obligation to be sole providers/protectors/caretakers of their women. Most men my age seem to seek a true partnership on all levels... mental, emotional, practical, physical... rather than the traditional model where those aspects of the relationship are segregated into male and female "roles". And most women my age also seem to want this. The trouble comes when old rules are applied to a new game.
"there are no rules"
Again, perfect irony... you apply rules to dating/relationships then claim there are none, while you disagree with those who are advocating open-mindedness or fairness or the ditching of antiquated "rules" from another era. Surely you don't think most men today are looking to support a stay-home housewife? Because "the man pays" is based on that same mentality. We may be animals, but some of us like to think we've evolved to the point where relationships can occur and be experienced on a deeper level than is found among the birds or other primates. I don't see too many women saying they'd love to be "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen", and I don't see too many men saying that's what they want of their women. But to each their own, I suppose.
All in all of course it comes down to individuals, and as I said the "will he pay for me?" test does actually have intrinsic value... it keeps progressive men and traditionalist women (or non-materialistic men and superficial women, as the cases may be) from getting too involved with each other.
"All I am saying is that the woman has more of the choice"
Only if the man gives it to her. If he doesn't make that initial offer or make the first move, the footing is equal. Again, this is really just all posturing in the name of making sure women don't lose the upper hand. Which is sad if having the upper hand in a relationship is that important to them.
"You are making an issue out of something which is a free choice."
I'm not making an issue of anything, other than the silliness of demanding that someone pay for you before you'd consider seeing them again.
" It's too bad if you lose dating potential "
I'm glad you feel better about yourself by trying to put down those who don't agree with your views. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:48:33 PM | keep the first date simple without any pressure. meet for drinks, then if you feel comfortable and are dyin to know more about this lovely creature -you can always move on to dinner (your treat of course).
or either party can bale after drinks, without obligation, (with no hard feelings) -yeah right, -if thats possible...
unless you hook a gold digger merely looking for a free meal, drinks, entertainment and whatever else she can get, before she moves on to her next meal ticket.
spending too much on the first meeting makes a nice gal suspect you have undisclosed motives, or are expecting some kind of contribution from her, whether it be money or...
-you never know how the first date went -until the second one, (she invites you out to dinner to show her appreciation for being such a gentleman on the first date)... | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 2:52:50 PM | Your quote AceofSpace. Is this how you truly view the magic of romance???
No ma'am. Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
It's the impression I get of your viewpoint.
I feel that too many women worked too hard to establish their equality, and that too many men endured too much abuse before seeing the light in that regard to hold with a custom that celebrates the dependent status of women.
If you were required to come up with a dowry in order to marry, as is true in some countries, I think you'd see customs like these a bit differently.
So it works for you. So what. Slamming a woman who says that something else works for her indicates that this is a privilege that you feel entitled to keep and defend--regardless of who it hurts. So please do keep it, but as far as I'm concerned you cn keep it to yourself. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:03:29 PM | "I feel that too many women worked too hard to establish their equality, and that too many men endured too much abuse before seeing the light in that regard to hold with a custom that celebrates the dependent status of women. "
Well put. It can also be viewed from the standpoint of devaluing men. Either way it seems to serve little purpose to anyone who is not seeking to be "in control" in one manner or the other. And it sets both men and women back about 50 years. Generosity is great. The EXPECTATION or demand of generosity, not so much.
Much is said of men who always pay having "class"... to me, having class is not automatically expecting others to take care of your own needs or berating them when they don't... but having gratitude when they do. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:05:04 PM | | Got to say that this one was even embarrassing for ME to read!!! My God Man!!! If I was a woman and you made me pay for my drinks and dinner... I sure as Hell wouldn't go out with you anymore either!!! | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:22:20 PM | Swamphunter,
We might disagree on other matters, but on this one I think you've got it right. Once you choose to invite someone out, the money is already spent so why not enjoy it?
I guess what's useful in this thread is the recognition that an offer to pay half (or all) isn't necessarily an indication of generosity. And that's too bad--but it is good to know. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:35:58 PM | entire relationship on the price of dinner
Utterly ridiculous. I had no idea that some men ruminated and cogitated in such length over such a relatively paltry sum when in truth they should be excited at the fact that there may be a romance on the horizon. What I mean is that the start of the relationship should be as positive as possible. If that means that the man stumps up to invest his time, plans and cash (yes cash) into a date - then this shows that his interests are at least keen. The fact that you seem to view this as 'dirty work' is rather worrying!
Most women understand and acknowledge this, and if they feel that the man is not suitable for them, they do the decent thing and offer to pay their half at the end of the date before they say goodbye and good luck. It seems it would be your intention that the woman should pay the whole date anyway which would hardly work! Are men that feeble in your opinion?
Successful relationships are all about give and take, not about splitting it all down the middle 50/50. Equality should not breed similarity. Let your date choose her own drink for example!
There are many instances on this thread, from ALL ages of women, telling of disasterous encounters where the fact that the man's wallet has stayed firmly closed added to the failure of the budding relationship, where possibly had it he opened it things might have been salvaged. There are many instances on this thread of men who quite happily fulfil the role they feel most comfortable with - taking care of a woman out on a date. There are also instances of men confused as to the etiquette of paying for a date and the hidden meanings of dealing with the embarrassment of rejection and coincidence of women offering to pay their share.
Once again I state ... there are no rules. I DO NOT purport to be the rule book holder.I can only write from my own experiences (the only reliable ones I have).
PS - I said nothing about disliking the woman's dress (you really should not assume or guess) - actually I thought it was rather striking and certainly caught my eye ! Perhaps you were applying your own interpretation to my comment! | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 3:44:48 PM | We might disagree on other matters, but on this one I think you've got it right. Once you choose to invite someone out, the money is already spent so why not enjoy it?
I guess what's useful in this thread is the recognition that an offer to pay half (or all) isn't necessarily an indication of generosity. And that's too bad--but it is good to know.
Thanks AceOfSpace - yea apparently we DO agree on some things! 
When a woman tries to pay her half on a date, and many if not most will at least make the offer, I simply decline and say, "I'd rather you didn't, that's just not how I was raised", and usually that is the end of that. I have had a few, and I mean a VERY few, who still insisted, and if they felt that strongly about it then I just let them.
To me, even if I hadn't been raised that way, allowing a woman to pay on a date just isn't worth it. Over the course of an entire year, how much money are we really talking about here? Not much! It just isn't worth the awkwardness, the embarrassment, the mixed signals, the mixed messages, the miscommunications, and all the other crap that this thread seems to be all about. I avoid almost 100% of that by just being an old fashioned gentleman, and almost everyone seems to know how to relate to and feel comfortable with one of those. That is probably why my parents felt so strongly about instilling those values in my brothers and I.
Mark
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:04:46 PM | PP,
The slam I objected to was your comment about "sexual encounters ... 50/50," and the implication that went with them. I thought the comment about the dress was gratiutious and unbecoming of you, but merely petty. However, your implication that a woman is a slut because she sees things differently than you was over the top if you ask me. That was a pretty heavy club to weild if you didn't intend to enforce any rules.
However, at least you're taking the point that there might have been something to reconsider from that post, and that's something.
My point is that principles that derive from tradition aren't the only valid principles, and when a man acts on principles that differ from yours it doesn't mean he's cheap or "unworthy" of you. Your refusal to acknowledge that he might be principled and to support him in his stance just might make you unworthy of him. Something else to consider.
I feel that you do yourself and him a disservice if you offer to pay and then ditch him if he takes you up on it. He might have thought that you were being generous and egalitarian, might have been flattered, might have felt honored to be in the presence of a woman who regards herself as an adult, might feel as grateful as you do when a man offers to pay your way. He might have seen it as a sign of respect that he rarely gets from women who all-too-often appear self-centered. But you'll never know that because you will have written him off over, as you put it ... a paltry sum.
You say that works for you, though I don't understand how it could. But then, I'm a mere male and they seem to be lining up for you--so why should you care?
Plenty of fish, right? But it just might be that you've been throwin back the very best catches over the price of bait. Think about it. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:07:56 PM | | Am I old fashion or something? I just expect a gentleman who is taking me out to not only open my door, and the restaurant door, take care of the bill, but drive me to the same place he picked me up and if we kiss good night that means there will be a second date. I don't think I would feel comfortable if a man who took me out on a romantic date to ask me to pay half the bill. I know I wouldn't want to see him again. Now it is a lunch date with a co worker, male friend or long time male friend I would pay my half. Only if it is his birthday or some other celebration where I am obviously acknowledging his special day would I pick up the bill, give him a special personalized gift just for him and a luxurious massage. I do like to be spoiled and know how special it is to be spoiled in return. But, I will still stick with my old fashion values of not even thinking twice about who pays when it comes to romance. Note: I won't date a man who takes me out on cheap dates and who is cheap as the relationship is obviously not what I want as I am all about romance with fine dining with a view, wine and yes, sex if it works out and he is all that what he magnifies himself to be. | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:10:46 PM | And by the way, if I had a very high paying career and made more money than the man I might think differently. But, I don't. Another reason I am old fashion I guess since I am not a successful career oriented woman. I love to be taken care of and loved as I get by in life with the things I need, he just makes it all that much more wonderful  | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:12:25 PM | "I had no idea that some men ruminated and cogitated in such length over such a relatively paltry sum"
We don't... we assume that if you're interested enough to meet us, you're interested enough to risk maybe forking over a few dollars for the chance to get to know us. And we assume that you don't mind or feel it's unfair to pay your own way. Just like we do. Paying one's own way also means they can as much of whatever they want and nobody feels guilty OR put upon! That being said- even if her portion of the bill is greater, I will always still split it down the middle. Worrying about a few dollars is silly, what matters to me is just the principal behind it. And the fact that some women DO worry about a few dollars, in whatever means they rationalize it or attach questionable meanings to it, is the only thing I find puzzling. How bout worrying about the important things, like am I considerate, do I actually listen, do I show genuine interest- as means of gauging my intentions or suitability? I'm certainly not basing the future of the relationship on similarly silly, meaningless ephemera such as how much cleavage she is showing.
"The fact that you seem to view this as 'dirty work' is rather worrying!"
Why does what I think worry you? Just because you're a woman who refuses to take responsibility for your part of the date relationship, I couldn't care less what you think.
" It seems it would be your intention that the woman should pay the whole date anyway which would hardly work! "
Wow, again totally illogical abstraction. No, this is not at all what I said or implied.
"Are men that feeble in your opinion? "
No, but I'd not want to date or be in a rleationship with those types of women who do seem to be... | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:15:43 PM | | I know for me that on a FIRST date I will not allow someone to pay if I know there will not be a second. If I am interested in a second date I will let them pay with the full intention of paying on the next date if they ask :-) | |
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:27:23 PM | sexual encounters ... 50/50
Once again you misunderstand. I said nothing and meant nothing sexual with my 50/50 comment - this was merely to analyse certain views of what equality is. An encounter can take different guises, be it bowling, hanging out, drinking Guinness, etc. I made no sexual innuendo, although I said sexy as in exciting with romantic potential. I do not consider a woman a slut whatever she decides about a date! (that is her business)
offer to pay and then ditch him
This would truly be an awful thing to do. I would offer to pay and explain that I didn't think we were suited. There would be no confusion and he would be in no doubt. I would do this for me as much as for him. It would not feel right to steal a meal or drinks from someone I didn't really get on with.
My body belongs to me and it would be up to me who I decided to share it with. Life can be unfair sometimes, but ultimately I have to feel happy with what I do, who I am with, and the feelings it gives me. A date is for a purpose - to get to know that person better, to judge compatibility, and chemistry. It is a stage in a relationship, sometimes a trauma we have to go through! Your friend was right in saying that the money was already spent and he may as well enjoy it anyway - that is a very positive view and must be a good thing for his date to know that !
Plenty of fish
... and there is a breed suitable for everyone.
Best wishes and goodnight xx
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:35:35 PM | forking over a few dollars - guilty OR put upon
... this is supposed to be fun and exciting isn't it?! Where's the romance in your approach?
types of women who seem to be... feeble
... and would you put me into this category? ha ha ha ha
Wallet opening ceremony on your next date. I will put money on it.
Nighty xx
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:39:14 PM | Am I old fashion or something? I just expect a gentleman who is taking me out to not only open my door, and the restaurant door, take care of the bill, but drive me to the same place he picked me up and if we kiss good night that means there will be a second date. I don't think I would feel comfortable if a man who took me out on a romantic date to ask me to pay half the bill. I know I wouldn't want to see him again. Now it is a lunch date with a co worker, male friend or long time male friend I would pay my half. Only if it is his birthday or some other celebration where I am obviously acknowledging his special day would I pick up the bill, give him a special personalized gift just for him and a luxurious massage. I do like to be spoiled and know how special it is to be spoiled in return. But, I will still stick with my old fashion values of not even thinking twice about who pays when it comes to romance. Note: I won't date a man who takes me out on cheap dates and who is cheap as the relationship is obviously not what I want as I am all about romance with fine dining with a view, wine and yes, sex if it works out and he is all that what he magnifies himself to be.
Well put - and not a damn thing wrong with being old fashioned. You sound like a wonderful lady to me, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be treated like one.
Mark
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:41:08 PM | Yes, I'm sure both my wallet and hers will be opened... it's really no biggie! Unless of course, you make it so.
Being respected by your date goes a loooong way!
"Where's the romance in your approach?"
Where's the romance in subsidizing my date, or for that matter knowing that she judges my character or intentions based on such meaningless gestures? Please. If I wanted to pay for a woman's company I could hire a hooker. Personally I find a date with an interesting, articulate, confident woman who is open to the possibility of a relationship that goes beyond "romance" or sex far more rewarding though.
ANd with that mentality, is it any wonder women fall for the old player's tricks of wining and dining to get what he wants, then booking out? Again, base the conclusions on meaningful ineraction (or a lack thereof), not material symbolisms. Any a$$hat can spend money to "get you"... if you let him.
To those who men who go by the old-school gentleman approach... it's all good. I just steer clear of the women who think that is the ONLY way or who want their cake and eat it too. Again, just because a man would prefer his relationships to start off on an equal footing rather than posturing and gestures does not mean he does not have principles by which he lives or that he is not generous or not romantic. Paying is not necessarily posturing or gesturing if doe out of genuine respectful generosity... but REQUIRING that someone else do so is!
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| Woman paying for dinner = Payoff?
Posted: 5/16/2008 4:50:15 PM | | Maybe I wasn't clear enough. You offer to pay, then pay, then dump him because he took you at your word. I'm sure you'd do it in the nicest possible way, but you'd still be shutting the door on someone who, for all he knew, was trying to honor your stated wishes. | |
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