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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:10:00 AM | So drill for oil in N dakota and ANWAR and build a new refinery. duh. N Dakota has more oil than the Middle East.
NATO needs to cap oil spending at $70 a barrel.
Speculaters are making a million bucks a year as they purposely jump the oil prices.
One day of not buying oil would turn the middle east into a frozen depression.
Screw the towel heads. We ought to just take the damn oil just like loony lefty types scream we are doing. The "No War for Oil types" could actually be right for once. We could grab Oil for free.
Wouldn't help though. Loony Lefties have stopped expanding oil refineries for the last 35 years. Dumb **stards put us in this position and now cry about it. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 3:03:00 AM | | Why can't we see the big picture , same as in 1929, corporate power, banking lead the way for the New Deal , there timing was good , Roosevelt followed there policy to the letter..... Do you think the timing for the next election is coincidental .....watch out when it all crashes in September or October, but it will usher in , not a New Deal but the New World Order this time, history repeats when it works others plans. The only way they will control the masses is with a RFID chip, which is manditory in Iraq now, you better have a exit plan, they will have one for you and you wont like it . It's called slavery. Check out Prison Planet.com | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 4:26:47 AM | I tried to bring up this point in another thread, but it was deleted. DUMB!@#@!!!!!!!
There is too many people in the world. These enviornmentailists have their heads stuck in their $#@!
More people having kids means those kids grow up & want their own houses using up even MORE natural resources . They also will own their own cars which will produce even more green house gases.
Thats the problem plain and simple. People need to stop being selfish & having 5 kids! The planet cannot sustain such pop growth. Its a fact kids! | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 4:50:59 AM | Mass starvation, war and political change on a scale that no one alive today can probably imagine....
Seriously! Did you really think any species population would be allowed to grow and grow and grow without limit --- and nature wouldn't eventually intervene...? | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 5:40:44 AM | | If Exxon would pay the court orders damages to the Alaskan people for their loses of income due to the Valdez incident ~ maybe opening new frontiers would be make easier. as it stands ~ it's appeal after appeal showing insentive and blatten disregard for people directly injured ~ these tree huggers as you call them see a pattern in behavior here and until it's proven to be unwarranted, resistance will remain.~dar | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:07:32 PM | ktodd1969, you people keep mentioning Democrats and a Congress who won't let oil companies drill for oil in this supposedly oil-rich continent of ours, can you be more specific as to which Democrats, bills, oil fields, etc.?
I have no idea what you are talking about; although, this thread is about food. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:42:39 PM | The road to hell is paved with good intentions....
Ethanol is not as good as it was portrayed as. Not only is it less efficent, it is not as renewable as people thought, plus it is taking FOOD away from people...the food riots and rationing have started already. Businesses are shutting down since they can not get the raw materials( rice and soy beans are just a few examples) necessary to make their products.
Congress should repeal the laws mandating ethanol use in gasoline.
Congress should open up drilling in the USA and ease enviromental restrictions
Congress should allow the US to burn the nearly 300 yr supply of KNOWN coal reserves in the US.
Congress should ease restrictions and make incentives for oil companies to build refineries in the US.
Congress should make incentives to build more NUCLEAR plants ( the GREENIEST form on Energy, no Carbon Dioxide footprint, like that really matters)
But not to worry (Sarcasm) Congress will fail us...AGAIN | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:33:06 PM | the one thing "good " about corn gas is ~ kansas needed the work ~
it almost like masterbating ~ feels good but your not going anywhere
what is worrisome is our"knowledgable public officials" ~is selling it as a good thing and a small answer to a big problem ~ ~~ now if they were converting cow and horse poop perhaps so, ~ outwise ~ the math says it's not profitable ~ just good for kansas , good for John Deer, good for the oil refineries to the well head. ~
Look at it ~ as more of a farm subsidy ~ Kansas ~ people got to eat too! ~
But I'm offended somewhat ~ with the sales pitch ~~ dar | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 4:05:50 AM | Flavius
I agree with you on your point with over population to a point.
Many people especially in this continent that consumes the most globally don't seem to care. However the economic prospects are grim and the global situation situation is as well.
Sarnia for instance, and I've been here for about four and half years, has many people spitting out four or more kids. While this is all fine if one can provide for them and they have a good future, it seems kind-of redneckish. I've heard that some of the plant workers may intentionally knock-up their wives/girlfriends to keep them occupied while they (plant workers) do their crazy/lengthy shifts. And unfortunately if the "educated" have less kids then our politicians will bring in more to do grunt work or get more votes. And I believe statistically most NA's are having less kids then developing countries. Countries like China and India are still giving her?!?
I can eventually see if food and global warming continues with an exponential population increase that this continent may resort to a one or two child limit. I'm sorry to say...
Cheers,
Danno | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:30:09 AM | The biggest reason the price of food has gone up (among most all other consumer goods) is because of our fuel costs. Everything we buy has to be shipped from point A to point B. And in many cases to points C and D as well.
Our fuel costs go drop signifigantly if the psycho environmentalists would get the hell out of the way and we could drill in our own country and not rely on foriegn oil. Or better yet, if congress would just give them the finger and stand up to these morons instead of shamelessly bending over and dropping their pants for them.
The price of corn: Yes it's very high right now but as recently as December 2005 the price of corn was only 1/3 of what it is now. Funny how no one complained back then when the farmers were making very little money on their crops.
Now when the price of corn was so low (not only in 2005 but several years prior to that as well) it was even below the FSA loan rate price. When the cash price drops below the loan rate farmers can file a Loan Deficiency Payment or LDP. If the loan rate is $2.00 and the cash price is $1.65 a farmer files an LDP and recieves $0.35 cents for every bushel he produces. If he has 100,000 bushels that's $35,000 he gets in a subsidy.
Where am I going with this? Well which would you rather have? The federal government spending additional billions in subsidies on agriculture ? Or pay 10 to 15% more on groceries. No one complained when the farmers weren't making any money but now when the commodities are very high everyone raises holy hell. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:46:59 AM | MX220, yes, I understand the average grocery item is shipped 1,500 miles and I also understand 50% of everything.........eat it, wear it, spray it.........comes from China.
So yes, fuel costs are part of the equation, a big factor. But just a part of it.
Local farmers, ranchers, fishermen, mills, many if not most of these have been put out of business by the multinationals .........a solution, then, is to encourage more local production and discourage imports. And this is all over the world ..... many countries that are perfectly capable of growing their own crops and doing their own ranching are importing from the US, much to the delight of the multinationals and governments and much to the dismay of the citizens.
On the other hand, if I shop for sweaters, for example, the one made in China isn't more money than the one made in Virginia. The materials and brand names are big factors, much bigger than the price of gas to transport them.
The real problem, to me, is that a few multinationals operate in a free market now, worldwide, and control everything from what seeds local farmers can buy to the distribution, markets, pricing and CONTROL of the world's food supply, pretty much most of it. Food production has NEVER been in the hands of so few in the entire history of man as it is now.
Big out shut out independant gas stations, which are now a thing of the past, who were once free to actually compete for customers, make their own decisions about supply and demand and pricing..........so look at the parallels here........once the big five oil companies monopolized retail oil, the price creeped up....and up and up and up. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:32:13 AM | @mx220
Our fuel costs go drop signifigantly if the psycho environmentalists would get the hell out of the way and we could drill in our own country and not rely on foriegn oil.
First off, there's plenty of 'oil drilling in our own country'.
Second, I can remeber purchasing gasoline for under a dollar a gallon only seven short years ago, I think between 89 cents to $1.08 a gallon was quite common.
Third, the prrice of oil has more to do with deregulation and the profit motive:
1.****Cheney's 2001 Energy Task Force template, the complete details of which are still yet unknown
2. Deregulation of the Energy and Oil sectors.
3. Deregualtion of Financial sectors regarding Speculative Investments.
4. The artful limit of supply of refined product by Big Oil.
... than environmental factors, or activism by 'psycho environmentalists', as you termed it.
Now if you have any actual and pertinent facts to submit that might support your assertions ... and not just loony bin screeds from right wing pundits trying to deflect the blame ... well then, you should certainly make those known.
Caw | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:47:37 AM | darjeeling, you got it, its RIGGED as food pricing now is also RIGGED. Big Food is now doing what Big Oil has been doing.
No, wait, what am I talking about? What am I saying?????????
It's the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, like rats, leeching our food supply! Why if they can be deported, there will be enough food for everyone and prices will go down again. Things will be just as right as rain again.
No, wait, it's the WELFARE MOTHERS AND OTHER INDIGENTS sucking the lifeblood and precious fluids of America ....and as tradur-gurl said, its the damned CRIPPLES and DISABLED on Social Security....that are the cause of all our problems. If they worked like the rest of us, well, less government spending means lower taxes and lower taxes means we have more cash available and more cash available means the price hikes make no difference.........see?
We're not being scammed or anything by unseen forces so much larger than ourselves that really don't make the news all that much in corporate-controlled media or anything and we're so good at playing pretend ........ there is always someone smaller and more vulnerable to blame ....... so come home and KICK THE DOG!
That's the answer. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:00:27 PM | Points to ponder:
1) Costs of Transportation. You buy foods at your local store, that are grown, pre-packaged, pre processed, refrigerated, and transported from thousands of miles away! This is added into the cost of your food! It used to be, that local cultures, would have different food availability depending on what was locally available. It appears that we've become so spoiled in our shopping habits that we can pick up a tin of danish cookies in almost any north american grocery store, yet think nothing of the processing, shipping, packaging and availability of such items on a world scale. If you want tea, it has to be imported (Sri Lanka) Coffee? Brazil, Columbia, etc. Mustard on your hot dog? Saskatchewan, Canada. C'mon ppl.. do some math here. If you want to import and preserve food to make a couple thousand miles to make it to your shelf, be prepared to pay the shipping costs..
2) Processing. Since the advent of the microwave oven, more foods are available in ready-to-eat format. Not to mention, plastics, used to store or cover your leftovers in the refrigerator, or even to throw out your garbage, are energy resources. If you think this wasteful means of food handling is convenient, be prepared to face the music.. as energy costs soar, so in turn, does the price of the little plastic baggie you throw into the microwave to heat your noodles. You may believe that a stove or an oven, indeed, uses more energy than a microwave oven. But the cost of the entire process of prepackaging a ready to eat meal, including labour and energy costs, and the end result, the energy wasted in preserving and plastic packaging, is by far a more expensive meal to eat than to buy the raw materials and cook things yourself. The plastics industry alone, consumes a pile of energy!
3) Inspection: Never, in the history of North America, has the security of food supply been more threatened by wars, terrorists, domestic problems, and to top it off, biological problems. It wasn't very long ago the beef supply suffered a major, major blow due to BSE and various other domestic issues. The science involved in making sure that your food supply is safe, involves more than one step.. It's an all inclusive process that begins at the point of origin of your food, and it doesn't end at your dinner plate. It's not cheap, and it's added into the cost of your food. Make no mistake, any biological agent such as anthrax, or BSE, could domestically wipe out the world's meat supply in very, very little time.
4) Transportation of everything, is our biggest weak link in this new era. Too much of our food supply in all of our countries, is centralized and government regulated. Local availability of food products and inspection, has been legislated due to it's 'possibility of risk' factors. High costs of regulated inspection, is costing us local suppliers in alarming numbers. How many of you, have ever had, fresh cow's milk? It's illegal for a farmer, to sell it to you. During our last milk transportation strike, he had to give it away, or dump it!
5) Wasteful use of arable land. Let me make this point very clear. As housing starts in most metro developments begin, precious arable topsoil is being removed and is not being used for it's original useful purpose. It is being contaminated with all sorts of industrial waste, it's being stockpiled, or spread around in areas where there is already plenty enough topsoil.. Concrete is being poured over it, it's being used as backfill for basements, it's being washed away in oceans, it's being used as filler in landfills. It's being scraped off the top of energy resources, in the quest to find oil, and coal, and mineral development and mining. This soil takes YEARS to become arable, and if not used properly, or concreted over, it's original usefulness, becomes buried like a time capsule.
6) Further to other wasteful uses of arable land, are crops, which are grown which have absolutely no social or economic value as food. Unless you've got cattle, there's certainly no point growing acres and acres of grass. Some of the most fertile land in North America, is used to grow tobacco.. when's the last time ANYONE found the tobacco growing industry, a legitimate source of food?
7)There is plenty enough land, in our own respective countries in North America, to collectively feed ourselves, and share with other 'have not' countries, and certainly in a much more economically feasible way.. "trading OUR food resources, for the energy we need".
8) There are NOT too many people on this planet. There are too many people NOT taking even meager steps to "inconvenience" themselves, to make sure that what they use or consume on a daily basis, is repaid. Take money out of the equation and you expose the wasteful shame of "convenience"
Finally, to discuss the coal burning issue.. yes, good option, if done responsibly. Those of you who grew up in the industrial world, however, have the experience to know that coal is an enormous natural bio-toxin sponge. Coal, absorbs bio-toxins from the earth, and the atmosphere, and stores them within itself. To burn coal, releases these toxins. One need only measure the amount of mercury that is contained within one yard of coal to determine how "safe" burning coal is without expensive technological retrofits to contain the hazardous substances that coal itself, contains. I'm sure you're aware why coal was phased out in the first place. It produces extremely, biologically dangerous chemicals such as sulfur dioxide, mercury, and lead emissions. You are aware of what smog is. While it may seem like a good idea, it can't just be thrown into a pit and burned. It's got to be done in a bio friendly way, or you will contaminate the entire biosphere, once again, with acid rain, toxic chemicals, and heavy metals. There's widespread scientific proof of the damage coal fired power plants have on arable land.. you don't want acid rain raining down on perfectly good cropland, fisheries, forests, rivers and lakes. It will destroy them.
The retrofits to burn coal are still not perfected. Something that should be explored, definately.. but in it's present state, an extremely dangerous activity.
Steven, your illegal immigrant comment is pretty much as immature as it gets to making a point about a food shortage. North America is several times the size of China with far more fresh water and arable land and resources.. yet they contain over a fifth of the world's population. Between China and India, One must really think twice about determining per capita, who outnumbers whom on this planet. A worldwide food shortage will cause a war, if not tackled in a global cooperative way.. hungry people will riot. These are certainties. America is not the only one on the planet that is facing higher food costs.. people are overthrowing governments in other countries because of mass starvation. These people, in desperation, can, and will, do anything to eat. Who could blame them? So would you!
Corn is only one cereal staple grain. The roots of the present food shortage, begin with the world supply of RICE. Replacing the food value of a staple such as rice, is done with other commodities such as your corn, spring wheat (flour) Durum wheat (pasta flour), peas and lentils, and oilseed grains such as flax and canola..
Their increase in price, has directly increased in proportion with the shortage of staple rice.. the universal food of the majority of the world's population.
And just fyi, although you *think* that ethanol production is a bad idea, it only becomes a bad idea if they start using high grade food corn or wheat or grains, to produce ethanol. The majority of the ethanol production around here, is produced from inedible organic matter, or grain not the slightest bit suitable for human consumption. It was a process perfected to make use of waste material, such as corn stalk and low grade grains. A very worthwhile pursuit, if not, for the cost of transporting these products to the manufacturer to be processed into ethanol.
Personally, I think we should start seriously considering going back to biologically friendly transportation methods for large bulky products.. like dirgibles using helium. You might be a heck of a lot better off than burning gasoline and diesel fuel on highways moving this stuff around.
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:48:30 PM | music-man-canada, the immigrant bit was a little joke.
None of the things you mention are the cause of the very rapid and severe increase in prices with the exception of the cost of gas.
You also fail to mention that the reason things are trucked and shipped all over the place is because the local food producers have gone out of business in the droves, driven out by Big Ag.
Once Big Ag monopolizes, we get what we see now with Big Oil: STIFFED. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:48:34 PM |
The price of corn: Yes it's very high right now but as recently as December 2005 the price of corn was only 1/3 of what it is now. Funny how no one complained back then when the farmers were making very little money on their crops.
Kind of like when no one complained when a barrel of oil was $10.00 in the 1980's, no one cried about the oil companies either.
Why should oil companies sell to America? If they can make more profit elsewhere, they are going to, and as Congress puts more restrictions on what they can or can not do, well guess what, the price will continue to rise. So if you want cheaper gasoline, heating oil, etc... demand that congress recreate the incentives that we had in the 1950's for gas and oil exploration, refinery building, etc...
Remember the US does not have any big oil companies, they all belong elsewhere. BP (BRITISH petroleum) Chervon (Venezula) etc... | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:42:06 PM | Steven: I beg to differ. Environmentalists have been studying these trends and warning you about these very trends in our society and industry for the last 30 years. If you think global warming just 'started to show up' now, you obviously have been living in a vacuum for 30 years. It is the very same with food production forecasts! These things were known in the 70's.
What happened, is there was a huge shortage of rice production in India and China. China is rapidly running short of groundwater.. under a few of their major cities, the water table is receding faster than it can naturally be replenished.. this is a climate change. Rice paddies need fresh water to grow rice. With a shortage of water, comes a shortage of crops. They'll need massive desalination infrastructure to maintain reasonable production levels of food.
As for rice production, a good portion of the areas where it can be grown, are in use to their fullest capacity.. meaning, they have adequately provided for many, many years, but even still, China's imports have increased due to under production in recent years.
They've suffered a major shortage of rice.. and are now finally admitting, it's been getting worse. China's communist government finally didn't manage to keep a lid on it's dirty little secret. It's been importing more staples for years, yet not admitting a thing.
Big ag? It's not big ag causing the problem. What caused one of the major problems in my country, is the most ridiculous, asinine cost of transportation I have ever seen, to ship our grain from the middle of Canada (the breadbasket) to port! Rail transportation, IS the second largest expense in production of a bushel of anything! Yes, anything. Above fuel costs, above chemical costs, above seed costs.. above equipment costs! We play by the rules in North America with farm subsidies, and drive our farmers out of business by doing so. European governments, and the EU itself, has nothing but utter contempt for such regulation, and as such, heavily subsidizes it's agriculture industry. They recognize it's value!
This was offset for many years, by the intervention of government, in the form of a flat rate (crow rate). Since the US and the EU considered this a subsidy, we were forced to abandon that, and allow the rail companies to set their prices at "fair market value". Given there are only two major rail companies operating in this area, they comprise basically, a monopoly stranglehold over the transportation of our grain to port. To add insult to injury, their service sucks, they strike every few years, grinding our grain shipments to a complete standstill, and they succeeded in closing down many perfectly good grain elevators. In the past twenty to thirty years.. my lifetime.. we have lost thousands of grain elevators and increased the amount of distance our product must travel to be delivered to the nearest railcar facility. This at a time when fuel costs are already ridiculous.
Don't kid yourself. Governments of the day, have precipitated this North American crisis. Agriculture producers have been mistreated for years, in the name of "subsidy wars" and Canada, in particular, has botched their agriculture programs at the cost of a generation of family farms, that could not afford to sustain themselves. One cannot make a living at agriculture when the cost of production exceeds expenses. If you think it's illegal for a farmer to turn a profit, think again. He pays taxes on his profit. He pays infrastructure improvement and equipment repairs and upgrades on his profit. He is the cheapest labour you will ever, ever, find. And he can't go on strike. It's his livelihood.
BSE disease in cattle, kicked every cattle producer in Europe, the USA, and Canada, right smack dab in the family jewels. In one fail swoop, the world's fresh meat production, ground to a halt, and the prices hit the floor. So your T-bones definately got a price hike. (and inspection has subsequently increased, adding to the price tag). this affects your beef industry, your dairy industry, and of course, all sub-industries that use milk or milk products in their ingredients.
Hog farmers aren't getting paid enough for their ham, so the processing facilities are shut down and centralized.. more bloody transportation costs added to the price of your ham. There are now, fewer hog producers, producing hogs in ever increasing sized facilities. One wrong disease hits the wrong area, and you will see an incredible spike in the price of ham.
Salmon, and tuna, are being contaminated by their spawning grounds becoming contaminated, or habitat destroyed by chemicals, pollution, or man made obstacles to preserve water (dams). And the percentage of heavy metals found in such food products is increasing.
Poultry producers, succumbed to avian flu. Shut down the poultry industry and cull. Increase inspections. Do any of you see a trend here in live animal problems?
For one of the first times in the history of farming, I am finally seeing grain prices rise to a point, where someone starting a farming operation, MAY create a profitable venture. Until: 1) interest rates skyrocket on infrastructure capital investment, 2) the weather takes a turn for the worse and there is a crop failure, 3) The price of grain goes back down below cost of production, 4) The rail company goes on strike, so you miss your annual payment because you can't deliver your grain, 5) the price of fuel goes way out of control, forcing you to cut your costs, 6) the price of crop insurance goes way up, 7) The government changes, and they bugger around with farm policies, only to create a paperwork nightmare.
For every paper pushing lawyer or doctor, they pay their student loan, and they take pencil in hand and begin their career. For a farmer, unforseen expenses, can, and will destroy their livelihood, their future, and their ability to expand production to meet demand. It's not just banks that do it, it's the weather. No other business faces so many variable, huge dollar decisions, than perhaps, your local casino.
You can blame big ag, or you can blame the private sector for profiteering on the backs of an already struggling family farm.. either way the tax man gets his cut, so the government doesn't suffer. Everyone, wants a piece of this 'big' profit.. the problem gets to be, with rising costs of everything from machinery, to lawyers writing up contracts because of new crop varieties, farmers usually are pleased if they themselves, have earned minimum wage for the hours they donate to the cause.
The price of food may have shot up folks.. but this is probably one of the best market corrections for every farmer that has been hanging on by shreds, in years. If the prices of grain actually remain at a point where farmers may successfully reap a corrective reward for years, and years, and years, and years of political and social neglect, then it's about darn time. Get behind your agricultural industry, pay to sustain it, and you will be well fed for years to come. The prices will come down modestly over time, but I truly hope that those who have witnessed the result of depressed grain prices, do not forget why.
I honestly can't think, of anyone, who would want to be involved in an industry, that depends so much on multi-skilled ability. You must be able to be a heavy equipment operator, a welder, a mechanic, an accountant, a lawyer, a landowner, a banking specialist, a carpenter, a veterinarian, a humanitarian, a plumber, an electrician, a fabricator, a scientist, a truck driver, (keep adding).
Who wants to do this, come home dirty after a long day with skinned knuckles, dirt and mud on your boots, and know by looking up grain prices, that you're doing all of it for nothing? You wake up and find out your entire life's work is quarantined because of disease, or dashed because of drought, or delayed because you blew a 1500 dollar tractor tire?
And governments have an enormous responsibility to their agricultural industry. If the public must point out the obvious.. food shortages.. they will begin to finally get the just spanking they deserve for being such irresponsible nitwits with our family farms. They are the backbone of your country, and you can't eat without them.
What does it portend? It's about time the public took this seriously, but it might already be too late. I grew up in a farming community. Of the fifty farming families that I grew up near, only two took over the reins from their parents and continued the operation. The remainder retired, sold out, and sent their kids to find a better job that actually makes money.
I hope Canadians have to pay more for their food for a while. It serves them right. The Government, should be absolutely ashamed of itself. And only now, will the public finally see the true value, of a successful agriculture industry.
I farmed, I lost money. It's a darn good thing I had a full time job in the oil industry. It paid for my farming gamble.
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/27/2008 12:01:45 AM |
Remember the US does not have any big oil companies, they all belong elsewhere. BP (BRITISH petroleum) Chervon (Venezula) etc...
Not according to Forbes.com....
Rank Name Country Industry Sales ($bil) Profits ($bil) Assets ($bil) Market Value ($bil)
6 ExxonMobil United States Oil & gas operations 328.21 36.13 208.34 362.53
7 Royal Dutch/Shell Group Netherlands Oil & gas operations 306.73 25.31 216.95 203.52
8 BP United Kingdom Oil & gas operations 249.47 22.63 206.91 225.93
15 Total France Oil & gas operations 144.94 14.51 125.47 154.74
16 Chevron United States Oil & gas operations 184.92 14.10 124.81 126.80
22 ConocoPhillips United States Oil & gas operations 162.41 13.62 107.00 83.99
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/18/Oil_gas_operations_Rank_1.html
The rank number is the overall number of the top 2000 companies as of Feb. 28.
For the top 2000 overall see here...
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/18/biz_2000global08_The-Global-2000_Rank.html
Five of the top ten are US based.
If you search around the site you will find that 62 of the top 200 are US based. (I'd provide the link, but it's so long that it would make this thread difficult to read.)
In regards to food, one may want to research Altria Group....they win in that category by a wide margin. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/27/2008 1:14:58 AM | The answer to your question...is frightening. But here it is:
A few years back Americans were told our world was becoming a "Global Village." It was supposed to mean that with better methods of communication...we could communicate with other countries better and therefor make world business better for all.
What ACTUALLY was going on..under the guise of this "Global Village" was that the real name for it all....the "New World Order" was having its final pieces put into place....
That has been accomplished. The FIRST place in the world where the new program is being tested..is the state of Michigan. Michigan had the financial backbone of its auto industry to keep the state solvent..for decades....and now the big corporations are quietly sneaking all the industry...to China...where the 30 to 40 dollar hourly wage of the auto workers ...can be literally shredded. Because China has four times the amount of people Amnerica has... in fact...China has more college graduates....than America has people.... and their people are willing to work for far less than we are.
In time America will have NO work...as the owners of the big corporations seek the most work for the least hourly rate...and the entire infrastructure of our country is going to change...dramatically...and Americans face a time unlike any we've ever seen in our history.
As China continues to industrialize....Americans will get poorer...and poorer. The big owners of the corporations will disappear into the woodwork..and they will still be rich...but now Americans will not enjoy the middlle class life anymore....
The rise in prices of food...and raw materials such as copper...is happening because China is now requesting these raw materials for THEIR production..and the NEED is already so great...that nationwide in America we have people stealing metals from street lights....air conditioners... copper plumbing from vacant homes...aluminum siding off the backs of vacant homes...and its going to get worse.
As the Chinese rise in standard of living...THEY now want to buy bread already baked...and supplies that they once ground in their kitchens themselves... and the rice they once grew on their property.....is becoming a thing of the past...and they are coming OUT of the lifestyle where they ate only rice and what ever they could find or hunt or raise...and they now want the SAME kinds of foods we eat here in America...and so the need in China for their materials and raw products..is now creating COMPETITION for our country. And quickly.
In your lifetime...you'll see the five dollar apple...and expect the price of gasoline to rise so much that a huge sector of Americans will be priced right out of owning an automobile altogether....and I ask you to remember this statement. Its going to happen.
In places where it gets cold in the winter...people will be forced to move..because they wil not be able to afford the extremely high cost of heating fuel...as energy costs will rise so that many will not be able to afford some of them. Already since the late nineties in my own home town in the midwest you can literally find about one home on every block where some one lives without at least one utility....
Our world is changing...and finally..the chase for MONEY..is going to get out of hand and the things involving poverty that used to happen only in other countries..is coming to America..and its sneaking in quietly....
The things we will do for money...its the God of this earth...and many poeople without even knowing it...chase it down unwillingly..some times unlawfully...day after day after day after day.
I grew up in a time of the five cent candy bar...the 25 cent pack of cigarettes...the 25 cent gallon of gas...my mothers house payments were 57 dollars a month...a new car...a Corvette even..cost about 35 hundred dollars....a can of coke was a dime.
You seldom heard about home foreclosures....repossessions.....bankruptcies....
Our nation is changing..and the desire for wealth and survival is the gear that drives the whole thing....and compassion for our fellow man..is soon to be a thing of the past.
I welcome any response from anyone. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/27/2008 4:12:48 AM | Hey Guys
Looks like guys are debating/talking about this now at this point...
If I can add if it isn't already apparent. What I see here is a shift of wealth or need here really. Money from this continent is going to countries like China and India or populations and what some in these countries desire isn't doable with limited resources or the global situation (warming.)
This doesn't look good prima fascia. And really has this always been a problem or are we noticing this more or are economists, environmentalists making us notice this more?
And what are we going to do about this?
Drinking beer despite the hop shortage!
Dan | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/27/2008 6:02:24 AM | music_man_canada, I dont have any problem with farmers. The problem I have is with the corporations and government collusion that puts them out of business, which you addressed only partially if at all.
I am very much in favor of local farming, ranching and fishing and do believe that as the locals have been dealt out, sold out, bought out, or otherwise taken out and food production has been monopolized by Big AG, as I call it, they are in a position of power greater than governments ........ and that is wrong. | |
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| Why Has the Price of Food Shot Up and What Does It Portend?
Posted: 4/27/2008 11:15:25 AM | I hear ya Steven. GMO's are the lastest stab in a farmer's back.. by the chemical companies. How on earth can a farmer afford to buy proprietary controlled seed, when what you are actually paying for, is the right to grow a crop, but sell for whatever the market price dictates, and you cannot keep any seed, to grow another crop without the input expense? Great example.. roundup ready canola, costs over 500 bucks a bag. It's not a big bag either it's a little 20kg bag of seed. If you've seen what farming has done over the past many years, input expenses for a farming operation have become an annual trip to the bank for an operating loan.
Farmers used to operate on the other side of the balance sheet. They would work hard to break even or make a little bit to expand their operation or undertake equipment repairs or upgrades to keep a business viable. What ended up happening, is as farmers became subject to higher input costs, banks began to control more aspects of their operation.. in some cases, a farmer's crop decisions will be dictated by their lenders!
To get into farming these days, one cannot simply jump in and try. If you're lucky enough to have a family with a history of farming, then you can make ends meet by borrowing equipment or trading supplies back and forth amongst each other to attempt to grow an operation from grass roots. But the costs are enormous. Even a modest quarter section of reasonable cropland, costs over 50 thousand dollars, a used serviceable tractor costs over 15 thousand dollars, sprayer, combine, cultivator, air seeder or press drill, or discers, grain handling equipment, oh yes.. you definately need a truck. Fuel to put it in.. and if you're wise enough to allow for higher fuel prices in your balance sheet, you might make it through harvest. If there's room at the super mega grain terminal nearby, you might even be able to deliver it.. if they have room, and only, if they're taking in your particular crop. If not? You have to pay to store it, (about 85 cents per bushel) and hope that it doesn't spoil or lose a grade while it's stored.
I yet again, allude to the de-investment in our agriculture industry as the number one reason farming began to fail in Western Canada. After all, governments got out of the 'support business' a long time ago. Rail companies, physically, removed thousands upon thousands of miles, of viable railroad infrastructure that wove in and out of every small community that produced grain.. When you tear out a railroad track, you immediately increase the cost of shipping. When my father started farming, the elevator to deliver his grain, was two miles from his farm. Today, the nearest elevator is 20 miles away. So, now you need road infrastructure (higher municipal taxes), vehicles to traverse the distance, fuel to transport grain to the nearest collection point..
Grain handling has consolidated to the point where profitable economic farmer-owned grain companies, have been eaten by corporate owned entities. They have centralized and spent millions on infrastructure to build 'inland terminals'.. which suits them just fine.
But it used to be a two mile trip to the elevator, and the freight costs from there were the grain company's responsibility. Now, it's a 20 mile trip to the elevator, you have fewer competitors vying for your product so there is no price competition or marketing choice when selling your product.. (and I know farmers whose loyalty to the companies they delivered to, were on such a handshake basis that their loyalty was unyielding, even if the prices fluctuated a little bit.)
The De-localization of grain handling ruined this industry for the family farm, and for many small communities across this landscape. Rather than simply 'abandon' these facilities, or sell the infrastructure that was in place, they sabotaged these handling facilities. They knocked elevators over and burned them, salvage value be damned. They tore up miles upon miles of viable railway infrastructure and re-distributed the land. They did not leave one shred of dignity behind when they left.
The change to our landscape in the last 30 years, from storage and handling, to transportation infrastructure, to community involvement, has left the majority of these small communities barren landscapes. No one has been immune to this corporate plundering. To undertake the same labour to rebuild any of this infrastructure at this point, is an insurmountable task. In a little over one generation, grain companies and rail companies, have dismantled a system it took generations of visionaries, years to build.
The rail system used to be so complex, and so immense in this area.. now, it is a memory.
I was just reading in the paper the other day.. the government is dismantling hundreds of specially built aluminum rail cars.. used from transporting everything from grain to fertilizer (aluminum doesn't corrode). The majority of these cars were built in the last 20 years, and have a projected lifespan well into 2015. However, they've opted, to dismantle them "sooner than later" (when they become outdated)
Why, would you tear apart, a perfectly good, functional rail car? What purpose is served in building infrastructure such as this, if a policy change on paper, can destroy years of work and vision?
Big ag, isn't big ag. It's corporations all attempting to make a farmer work for a smaller and smaller paycheck.
Like I said before.. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that no responsible human being would ever 'lend someone a hundred thousand dollars to plant a crop that "might make it through to harvest" and "might break even".
In order to even get paid for it, they must have all the infrastructure in place to deliver it to the market in the first place. The cost of fuel is only one variable.
De-investment in this infrastructure, has already crossed beyond the point of no return. The small family operating farm, is economically, dead. Every other job on the planet, at least, you get a steady paycheck..
How to start a farm:
1) Go to bank, borrow one million dollars.
2) Obtain land, equipment and seed. Obtain fuel and fertilizer.
3) Plant your crop.
4) Purchase insurance, monitor crop growth,
5) Watch grain prices drop, watch fuel prices go up
6) Pay for machinery repairs and maintenance.
7) Pay monthly bills, feed the family.
O wait. There's no money left! I guess I won't eat today.
Yes, it IS that bad. I'd have settled for a trip to Vegas. | |
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