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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/27/2008 12:25:31 AM | Thanks for sharing that Brizguy.
I like to think that most operators are highly ethical moral and up rite operators. Like all industries though, there are ones that shouldn’t be there. The thing with our business is we rely a great deal on word of mouth and also “return business”...so we can’t afford to screw up!!!
You will find that most people that work in this industry usually have a medical or nursing affiliated background and also you will find that most of us have experience death very closed to us, in losing our loves ones so we can truly relate to what our families are experiencing. It’s also interesting to note that our industry is not ageist. In fact the older you are the more of life’s experience you bring to the job and this can be highly beneficial.
And as it not a particularly well paying job it would be fair to say that most of us are there because we simply love the rewards that this job brings and it is rewarding
Its shame you did not view at the funeral home, although many in your situation don’t. She would have looked so much different and “better" if that’s the word to use. Going to ID a deceased is one of the hardest thing I think anyone has to face...its awful, no other word fro it...and very brave
Cemetery plots are very expensive. If you do not go and choose specifically, the deceased is just buried in the next plot available . Most families do not care but some want a lovely burial plot, perhaps under a tree, or with a view - I’m not kidding, or if your Chinese up on a hill and near water- consider ed very lucky...I think its nice when people select...very personal.
It’s good to hear that nice positive feedback Brisguy...thanks for sharing. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/27/2008 12:33:36 AM | Miss MJ
Good pickup ..I did only address the men, please accept apologies.
With Muslim burials , it is customary to begin processes for burying the dead within 24 hours of the death. It begins with a ritual washing of the body; men washing men's bodies and women washing women's bodies. Either, a man or woman may wash a child's body, and a husband is allowed to wash his wife's body, and vise-versa, if the need arises. It is preferred that the body is washed by close friends or relatives, rather than the funeral directors.
Only men are allowed to attend the actual graveside service. The body is laid on its right side, with the head facing Mecca, and the shroud is removed from the face. Those present at the grave each take their turn in pouring three handfuls of soil into the grave while reciting the relevant parts of the Koran. The female mourners again can only observe at a distance. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 4/27/2008 12:43:03 AM | Hi all, Re: "sky burials"
I think you're referring to in Northern India, the dead would be laid out on large platforms where the local vultures would then come and remove the bodies.
Problem today is the shear number of bodies (human population growth) compared to the number of vultures remaining to eat them. Where do humans ever allow large carnivorous animals to exist in stable populations (except for FNQld crocodiles)?
Also, western tourists complaining about the smell and sight, even after being driven an extra 500 kms so they can see this go on.
just adding my 2 cents worth.
Cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 12:29:41 AM | G'day Pookiespal,
Just wondering what is the actual cost of Funeral or Cremation prepaid ? What is included and what is not inclued?
I have heard that it is more expensive to pick up the decease at night then it is during the daytime?
Cost more to transport the decease body from Hopsital then it is from home? Not sure if that is myth or truth?
Thanks for starting up such interesting post. I'm sure that people will learn alot from you about the death and what is involved in the death industry. Can be yukky if you are eating or drinking. Reality it is a fact of life we all have to die one way or another. Someone has to do the job. I read an early posted about someone that works in the industry having some sort of fetish with having sex with deceased. That I have to admit made me wanted to vomited. Didn't think there could be people like that in this world regardless, if work in the death industry or not.
jen | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:25:29 AM | Hi Happy Jen
Thankyou for your support of this post...I try to warn people if its a bit gory and yeah I believe its a area that needs to be discussed freely and with hoenst information.
Cost of a funeral or cremation is the same prices that you buy it at...for instance if you prepay your cremtion today and its $600.00 today and you die in 20 years, your funeral plan will pay out the what the ocst of a cremation is in 20 years but of no further cost to your family..Its like money in the bank, you pay now but use later at the prices then...did that make sense ? The average cost of a cremation service with frills is about $4-5000 dollars and a burial about $8000.00 - naturally either way can be more or less expensive depending on many factors including the type of coffin, service, mortuary work, travel etc..so it is always hard to quote until you know EXACTLY what the client wants.
With all of the major companies thru out Australia I can assure you that we charge the same fees for collection of the deceased irrespective whether its day/nite/ weekends/ public holiday..makes no difference to us and the cost of collection is factored into the service fee.
No it makes no difference whether we have to transport the deceased from a house, nursing home, coroners, hospital...all irerespective...all factored into the service fee however having said that, perhaps very small funeral homes - usually family owned may charge like this....
Another myth is that people think we charge for storing the deceased in our mortuarty facilities...hence why they want the funeral "over and done" with quickly, Again the cost of keeping the deceased is factored into the service fee cost, so the deceased is welcome to stay with us as long as they wish, they tend to be no trouble and are most welcomed.
Cheers
Pookie | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 1:52:51 AM | I hear that alot American funeral businesses are trying to take over some of Australian funeral businesses.
Next thing you hear is that you will get a cheap coffins made from China and all the bell and whistels from America not Australia. It seem everything is made in China now.
So much for authenic Australian funeral it would more like a multicultural funeral.
Has there been any major stuff up of people, who triple and double booking plots and tombs? Ripping people off and taking off with people's money who have booked the plot first, second, and third time?
happyjen | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:07:53 AM | Hay pooksiedoo
I have read this thread cover to cover and its fantastic.....
Answer me this, do dead people float or sink. I beg this question after our sydney 'harbour tragedy' where all those lives were lost but the boat didnt sink and all the bods from media reports etc were 'intact'. It begs the question were they all so intoxicated that they just fell over board and drowned and if so did they float so that all of the bods could be recovered?
Thanks for a great thread, its been very informative!!
M | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:08:55 AM | G'day Pookiespal,
Just wondering do you often get staff, who are curious of, what it like to work in the funeral industry? Having all these cosy and warm ideas of the work it entails. When it comes to crunch its not so rosy or cosy and they faint on their first day/night shift. Or vomit when they see the body being prepared and thinking that its not like the movies or TV.
Have to admit I was interested in working as Funeral Industry at least you would not ever have to worry about being unemployed. You certainly would have to have strong stomach. It would not be good idea to come in after night out on the grog and suffering from a mjor hangover. That would be very disrepectble to the deceased and the families wouldn't it Pookiespal?
I guess the other career option I thought would be funeral arranger. That just deals with paperwork and the families. Is that right?
I also read in your previous posts that you work long shifts of 12 hours? Don't you work eight hour day with maybe two to three hours over time at the most. Hope the breaks are decent enough so your health doesn't suffer.
I was also wondering why the funeral homes would be so insensetive to try, and pre arrange a funeral, if the family is experining a member, who has a terminal illness but is not dead yet. Still in the land of living.
Cheers jen | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 2:22:08 AM | | Pookie - cheers to you! What a great thread...I knew some of the gory details, having friends who are undertakers, but have learnt a lot of stuff I would never have thought of. My Dad has always jokingly said he wants us to shove his body down the back paddock under a tree - now I'll be able to tell him we can do that, but it has to be 6 foot down! | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 5:00:11 AM | Hi happy Jen
At one time a large major American Corporation called SCI owned most funeral homes in Australia ...they were subesequently bought out by another comapny Im sure you have heard of called the Macquarie Bank who pretty much owned everything. Macquarie Bank sold and now a various blue chip business own large funeral home chains in Australia - thats business, changing of ownership..still the family owned homes have survived and I dont think thats s a bad thing either...there is a large amount of competition and that, like all businesses, is good for the consumer. I can assure you that there is still much Australian investment and interest in this industry
Mmm surprisingly most coffins that are wood or wood based are made in Australia however the big Batesville caskets - that you see in all the American movies are made by a American Company called Batesville located in Indiana...the factory which is spread over many hectares is all l robotic...amazing to watch these caskets being made.
In answer to your question about double booking..yes there has been problems in the pat of double booking plots and tombs howoever this has mainly been due to inaccurate records being held by the public offices that look after theses record 50 -100 years ago.....nowadays each cemetery is owned by a trust and they are responsible for what goes on below ground, this not the respsonsibiltiy of the funeral director. I think you will find that this problem is indeed very rare nowadays..I have never heard of people being ripped off....not during my time as a FD and thats 20 years, but like all business Im sure at one time there were some bad eggs.
Cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 5:11:03 AM | ********************************WARNING**********************************
Unpleasant reading coming up
Thankyou for your question Noxious
Ok well initially people sink..not because of their body but because usually their clothing are sodden, they have had food in their tummy, they more than likly have other injuries - like a blow to the head, and as you said with the recent tragedy in Sydney, full of alcohol...all these factors will contribute to a body sinking...plus if the deceased intakes a lot of water which they can when struggling for breath, against heavy clothing, njury and shock...they will enventually will go under as the water fills the lungs and will also help them sink.....water is very very heavy..thin k fo a bucket of water.
As discussed previously, decomposition commences unpon the last breath and as most people have ingested food usually between the hour of death and 6 hours previously, the food starts to "rot" in the gut strait away and produces noxious (theres that word) gases...it is the gases that eventually will force a body to "floaa" to the surface....this take place approx 12-18 horus after they have slipped under. so if your thinking of desposing of a body..weigh it down !!! it will float
If it is seawater that they have drowned in and had the misfortune to swallow, the process will be faster....as seawater contributes to the gases becoming more "explosive" within the gut....the body will float for quite a few days but beware by this stage, the body has been subjected to many elements, mainly the other inhabitants of the seas.
Sadly drownings are the most awful corpses to do deal with...they suffer from skin slip, noxsious gases, have been nibbled at by fish etc, they are rotten and turn the most awful of colors...very unpleasant and unless the body is retrieved quickly then sadly
for the families, they will nto be able to view the deceased.....its nothing like in the movies !!!
I hope I havent gross you out too much.
I wil return at break time to answer other questions...
Cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/5/2008 7:47:36 AM | Do we get lots of people wanting to work in the funeral industry ?….more than you know…..every kid that has a “gothic” out look on life wants to work in a funeral home….rite up until they find out they have to actually deal with a deceased……..I’m not kidding and the show "Six foot under" well that brought in some very interesting characters wanting to know what it was really like in the home- the show did depict things reasonably accruately I will give it that.
So many apply for jobs with our funeral home but then when you start explaining the chores that you have to carry out as a Funeral Director's Assistant and yes they are gross, its amazing how quickly they lose interest….many also I don’t think realise the commitment one undertakes for this job. You are on call 24/7/365..we don’t have Xmas or NY which is traditionally our busiest time of the year…..due to suicides. They think its all about being nice to families and that’s it…they forget that we have to crawl out of bed at 4.00am in the morning to attend a road accident scene which a Holly wood special effects team would be proud of and stand around in the cold , dark, and wet waiting for a scene to be cleared by the Coroner - this can be many many hours. They don realise that we have to retrieve bodies from up trees, in rivers, down caves etc, collect body parts after someone decides to jump in front of a train..... I could go...the police do not do any of this...they aren’t allowed to under their work agreements. , its done by us….this pretty soon sorts the chaff from the hay
The don’t realise that our day does not end at 5.00pm…a family walks in cause their mother just passed away athe local hospital and your job is to take care of them irrespective of what was planned for your nite... and no overtime is paid.
And the pay for this is pretty ordinary, but you do it because you love the job..And the rewards for me and for many of my colleagues is that you can help a family thru the most traumatic time of their lives…and that is a amazing experience...with suggestions, ideas, opinions to give them the funeral that is most fititng for their loved ones. Funeral directors are also the keeper of secrets - all is revealed during a funeral arrangement and confidante..and when the times comes to pay the account a month later we are there often as the only shoulder they have to cry on as they have to stay strong for the family at home...we come into their lives quietly and professionally ..do our jobs and leave gently....with no fuss or bother a smile on our face, Nothing is too much trouble for a client..nothing. Surprisingly it has one of the lowest turnover of staff...your there because you simply love the job...
But let me tell you the worst thing about being a funeral director……………forget the deceased or the bereaved, as a Funeral Director....... all you do is CLEAN. Yep clean..everything at all times must be spotless, impeccable . The cars, the chapel, the mortuary, the viewing rooms, the catering rooms…and more importantly the staff….everything must look presentable at all times..and I mean at all times..after all would you let a funeral home look after your love one if the staff looked slovenly, the chapel was dirty, and untidy and messy…no way…Yep all you do in the funeral industry is CLEAN!!!!
When you work in this industry you have to be multi skilled so often your are a Funeral Arranger, a Conductor and some of us are Morticians as well, you must be able to put a body back together again, arrange flowers, make tea and coffee, drive a hearse, embalm a baby, clean a car, step in and say prayers if the priest is running late etc etc etc ...multiskilling is upmost in this industry.
Now rite now I must take the opportunity to dispel the myth that that we will always be employed…..so far from the truth !!!.
Here is why …..30 years ago the Funeral Industry in Australia commissioned a study on what death would be like in year 1980 onwards and how could we plan for it accordingly. ..The study reported that it was going to be a great time for the funeral industry...it was a boom time coming ….that all the Baby Boomers – the smokers, fatty diets etc were all going to die mid 50s onwards…however the study didn’t reckon the Baby Boomers discovering aerobics, healthy heart diets, change in seditary lifestyle, giving up smoking and the Boomers started living ….meanwhile based on the study funeral directors spend millions of dollars on infrastructure in readiness for this boom only to watch it not happen…meanwhile the likes of me were put thru mortuary science school in readiness for this big boom..Didnt happen….
Now the other enemy for the funeral industry was cheap operators who undercut the bit companies..ok their rite, but by undercutting us they use not as many staff and no mortuary work is performed so that has really hurt anyone wanting to work in the industry. Other things affecting the industry is Australian no longer have traditional funerals – due to high cost of funerals people now cut back on what they want for their loved one – which is fair enough but the FD still has to operate with massive overheads, chapels, catering, cars, staff, mortuary facilities etc…and therefore it would be fair to say that many funeral homes run on bare minimum staff and as many funeral homes are family orientated they employ family members to do the books, admin,clean the car’s, conduct services etc and outsource things like transfer and collections of deceased…so no this industry has gone thru great changes and sadly many funeral staff I know are out of work.
I now only work part time now in the industry and only because my skills as a mortician are sometimes called on…most families no longer view a deceased, so therefore a full time mortician is not required on staff, like they used to be…but the bottom line is…and I say this from a business point of view is that people just aren’t dying..average age now in Australia is 85 20 years ago it was 65…and that’s the difference..please don’t take offence at this statistic, it is the truth…
Hours of work..well like any work we work a 8 hours a day, but then something happens and you get like 10 deaths in a day and you work like 18 hours...like all businesses theres peaks and troughs and when your looking after one bereaved family, they dont care that your looking after another 9 as well...you work until its finished..and its done...you can go weeks in the summer and be very quiet..and then bang, winter comes and you will work 7 days a week for 3 months..its a funny business, very much associated with the weather patterns.
Pre arranged funerals are highly recommended.....this is when one prearranges their funeral without paying and is very common...this is a very sensible way to approach what you wish to have without arguments....you say what you want and your next of kin/executor carries out your wishes. I cant see anything wrong with that .....people who mainly do this tend to have no children or close kin and yes many terminally ill people do it themselves, not their families...this way they feel they have contributed in the way their life will celebrated and how they will be remembered...nothing is more distressing to a family is when one of the first questions we ask at a funeral arrangement is this:
"Did Mum inidcate whether she would like to be buried or cremated?"
"Um I dunno"
"Do you know?"
"No John do you know?
"Dunno Mum said maybe burnt. I dont know, maybe Anne knows?"
I cant bare the thought of Mum being burnt, Peter didnt Mum say she wanted to be buried, I cant remember !!"
............this goes on for a good half an hour...and then someone will object to the price or they dont like the idea of burial/cremaiton for whatever reason and so you go back to the beginning....if you make your wishes known...theres no arguments.
Prepaid is when you preaarange and then prepay your funeral
I see nothing morbid in this at all, just practical and saves so much heartache for families...a family can over rule your wishes, but Im pleased to say, Ive never seen it happen..its often your last wish and nice that your families honor it.
I hope this answers all your questions Jen
Cheers
PS: MAKE A WILL !!!! The most important thing you can do for your loved ones left behind !!!! If you truly love them, you will do this !!!!
Thanks Bewitched for your support and yes Dad can go there, if he wishes ..but yes please 6ft under !!! | |
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Hagars
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Joined: 4/20/2008
Msg: 113 | |
| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/6/2008 4:28:16 AM | Pookie,
A further question regarding your answer to Whitegold's post.
Are you familiar with the apparent embalming of Jesus of Nazareth when he was placed in his tomb?
If so with your knowledge of embalming do you find any shortcomings in the apparent Embalming Jesus of Nazareth was suppose to receive? | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/6/2008 8:04:42 AM | Hi Hagars.
Interesting question..thankyou
I do not know personally of the embalming of Jesus but of the Jewish tradition...and that would be that under Jewish law, no Jew can be embalmed in the traditional sense, that being the removing of organs and blood and the blood replaced with chemicals...hence preserving the body.
When Jesus was "embalmed" or his body prepared for rest, it would been washed, a mixture of scented oils and aromatic spices would have been blended together (just as the ancient Egyptians did) smeared all over the body and then the body would have been wrapped in a shroud. The Egyptians however did perform full embalming on their Pharoahs., primitive but still relatively effective ....so in the traditonal sense Jesus was never "embalmed" as we know it as this is forbidden under Jewish law but washed and scented....even today that is the standard way for a Orthodox Jew's body to be prepared as in accordance to the Torah.
Cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/7/2008 1:45:44 AM | You are a font of interesting information!
I've just been reading online the terrible story of a NSW Public Servant who was discovered dead in her home 5 weeks after she had died. This follows on from a story earlier this year when a man was found dead in his home about a year after the event.
My question is what happens to people that do not have family or friends to look after them? I assume there's some type of Public Trustee to look after their affairs, but what happens with the body? Do they get buried in the nearest cemetery? Do they get cremated? Do they come to private funeral parlours or are there govt owned ones to do this?
OK...so that was more than one question. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/7/2008 3:07:48 AM | Dear MissMj
Thankyou for your questions and trust me on death I am an expert and a complete failure on every other topic and subject known to man kind, but thankyou for your support
Ok these are the saddest of deaths, however surprisingly rare..as most people usually do have someone who is responsible for them be it, friend or family..I guess its sad when family doesnt bother with them but it does happen....so if a deceased has absolutely nobody to look after them they are released into the care of the Public Trustee which as you have already stated will look after their financial affairs and their estate.
Now if there is money the public trustee will usually arrange a funeral and will carry out the wishes of the deceased if they have been prearranged - this is usually the case - people that are alone are usually very aware of their responsibilites and they have often gotten all their legal affairs in order so there is usually no problem in this way. If there is no money or estate, the the Trustees will organise for a private cremation to take place, (because its cheaper) and the ashes are usually scattered over the rose bushes at the local cemetery.
In years gone by if there was no money, then the deceased was buried in a Paupers Grave located in one of the largest cemeteries of your largest city with no service whatsoever....this practice did go on for many years but in recent years it has ceased, due to the fact that the media and public got wind of this happening and were appalled, so now the deceased is given a proper send off and ritely so....and who attends these private funerals ?..the funeral director does...a staff of four is required to "run" a funeral ....and when a case like this happens and it mite happen say twice a year..its the staff that sit thru the funeral and the deceased is always given a religious send off....every deceased person in this position is always given a non denominational but religious send off and its quite lovely...and dignified. So rest assure...their last goodybye, they arent alone.
Cheers | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/7/2008 7:41:17 PM | More than you know ...and guess what, cant do much to recover it either except to go thru the long legal process of debt recovery (we cant really repossess) ........so nowadays because funeral directors have been caught out in the past, before the service takes place, most funeral homes will require all the disbursements to be paid up front.
Disbursements are fees that are incurred by the family for the deceased that are not part of the funeral directors service fees.
E.g. Flowers, Newspaper notices, Cremation fees, Burial plots and fees, Catering, Celebrant fees etc.
So therefore if a family does not pay their account, all the other contributors to the service, like the celebrant or the florist are paid in full and the only out of pocket situation that occurs is the actual funeral director for his fee. But trust me that hurts as this is the fees that pays for the funeral director to operate. It is rare, I think most people are pretty good but like in all businesses it does happen... | |
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Hagars
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Joined: 4/20/2008
Msg: 119 | |
| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/7/2008 8:22:05 PM | Thanks Pookie,
My sources lead me to believe that the herbs and spices you speak of were an ancient wiccan way of reviving someone from a coma ,drug induced sleep. I was interested in your take if you knew of his embalming.
Same sources lead me to believe what he was fed while being crucified were an ancient wiccan anesthetic. | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/8/2008 12:37:01 AM | msg 112
…most families no longer view a deceased,
Why is that PookPal? How long has that trend - if it is one - been going on?. I just thought everyone viewed the deceased . Who identifies the dead? Is there a legalality to it all?
Great topics ! BTW | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/8/2008 6:37:11 AM | Hi Happy
Thanks for your question
Well its hard one to answer..for some reason Australians have gone off viewing deceased persons in a funeral home situation, but I cant really tell you why....my guess with so much day to day unpleasantness happening, the last thing they want to do is see their deceased loved one at rest....Australians do not cope well with death and have no real unique traditions. Unlike the European and Asian cultures who embrace viewing and all the associated traditions of death and where viewings are considered of upmost importantance, this is not reflected in the Australian way of death. And also the bottom line is that some people just dont want to go there and for others its very important that they do view...especially if its a sudden tragic death.
In regards to identifiying a deceased, this may be done by anyone who knew the deceased but it is preferable to be done by a close family member. This can be a extremely overwhelming experience as when the deceased is presented to the family member to view at the Coroners, the body has not been atteneded to and therefore it can be a devastating experience for the identifier. If you are one that is ever placed in that position, I suggest after when a viewing is possible at the decease's chosen funeral home they view again after the mortician has attended to them so they do not have that last awful memory from the ID room at the Coroners........
Cheers | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 123 | |
| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:48:56 AM | | My husband absolutely refused to see his Mum in the week before he died (with damn good reason) and I had a call from the funeral home the day after he died telling me she had requested a viewing and they needed my consent. I was really surprised that they had to ask me first given that she is his mother. From what I've learned from your thread Pooks I assume now that it was because letting someone view him necessitated your style of enhancement work (which I gather wouldn't have been done otherwise cos he was being cremated) and I would therefore be the one paying for that additional service. I chose to never actually read the details on the bill so I have no idea what I was charged for. Would that have been the reason they had to ask me? Or is it more a legal thing to do with me being his wife? | |
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| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/8/2008 6:48:25 PM | Hi Naamah
Thanks for your question...
Well its purely the legalities even though she is his mother.
As you are his next of kin being his wife,you are technically the client of the funeral home and what the client says goes...I can only assume you were also the executor of his will- if he had one...
So it goes like this, whoever the executor is has first and last say on ALL matters pertaining to the deceased. If the deceased died in intestate, then the funeral director will takes instructions from the next of kin, however the next of kin also bear s the burden of the cost of the funeral as well and has to be made fully aware of this fact.
In your casse Naamah I asusme you were the executor and therefore the legal representative of the yourhusband, and if you werent , you were the next closest living kin, not his mother - may I point out that in times when families are fractured this really gets up some peoples noses...the mother being the mother believes (and who could blame her) that she has rites when in fact she doesnt, it is always the spouse and then the children of the deceased who has rites over the extended family of Mom, Dad and siblings ....boy Ive seem unplesasat situations arise because of this "ruling"
Accordingly the funeral home would have contacted you asking your permission before allowing your mother in law to see your husband.....this kind of situation happens every day in funeral homes mainly due to family friction and we must be very careful to always check with the client as to what their wishes are....as the executor and the wife, you did have every legal rite to refuse your mother in laws request and yes Ive seen that happen a few times too ..very unpleasant and at times nasty...so what the funeral home was doing was from a legal point of view, was covering their back, as they must. You can never assume that all is well within families..that the last thing we must ever think and I would say approx 40 percent of funerals that I see nowadays have some sort of family tension/complications with stepchildren, 2-3 marriages, people not seeing each other for years...all very stressful..especially for the funeral director trying to keep everyone happy..its like working at the UN some days !!!
Mortuary work is always done if there is going to be a viewing...and in the case of a trauma death obviously a lot of work must take place for the deceased to be presented. In your case Namaah, the mortuary work would have been minimal as your husband was not a trauma patient but work still would have been done to make him presentable to all of you, as opposed to when you last saw him at home.......this work is very standard and can be done in a few hours...
Now in days gone by, funeral directors had a standard fee, called their professional service fee....this fee included, transfer of the deceased from place of death to the funeral home, mortuary work, the funeral arranging, the actual funeral services, cars, heares, viewings etc...in other words all the things that the funeral directors do and has to do to "run" the funeral..........this was usually a set fee and you paid this fee irrrespective of how much of the servies you needed (for instance you may not choose to view the deceased but you were charged for mortuary skills anyway as it was included in the fee) and it also worked the other way, a deceased may have required extensive reconstruction work by a skilled mortician over several days and if this was the case, you werent charged additional for this extensive work...it was all included in a set fee.....so it was swings and roundabouts. On most funerals they used up all their profession service fee and "went over" in using our services but other funerals used minimal but paid for more...
Of course in some cases this was not fair, so now its more a "user pay" situation.
If you wish to have a viewing, then you are charged a fee, if you wish not use cars, then you dont pay for mourning cars, if you wish to have 4 viewings, then you pay for this, if you wish not a have a viewing at all, then you dont pay for mortuary work - having said that we do still wash and do simple prepartion of the deceased...because people often change their minds about viewing and we never like being caught out....so the deceased is still subject to preparation for those reasons but its not intensive preparation - e.g. they aren't embalmed.
In the past if your requirements included picking up the deceased at nites, viewings at nites and having a Saturday funeral (yes people do have funerals at weekends) you werent charged for this..again all included in that set fee, but now you are charged for each service on a individual basis.
In most cases this much fairer, however in some cases its not...and if your having a big all happening funeral with mortuary work, viewings at nites and Saturday services, you now pay a whole lot more than you did under the old system....guess its swings and roundabouts again.....and this is why people have cut out mortuary work on their loved one...because they can now see the cost of that work (before it was "hidden" in the service fee) and if a family is "cutting costs' its usually the first service to go.....
Cheers | |
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Naamah
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Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 125 | |
| The Death Industry - What you always wanted to Ask !
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:27:34 PM |
In your casse Naamah I asusme you were the executor and therefore the legal representative of the yourhusband, and if you werent , you were the next closest living kin, not his mother - may I point out that in times when families are fractured this really gets up some peoples noses...the mother being the mother believes (and who could blame her) that she has rites when in fact she doesnt, it is always the spouse and then the children of the deceased who has rites over the extended family of Mom, Dad and siblings ....boy Ive seem unplesasat situations arise because of this "ruling"
I can imagine. And yes I was the executor as well. I did say yes to her request. Despite having not one ounce of respect for her as a mother for what she did to him during the year he was sick, I figured that all he had asked of me was to keep her away from him so he didn't have to see her, which I did. But once he was gone, it was only her seeing him I figured. And even though I loathe the woman I would never purposely wish or inflict suffering on a person for the sheer hell of it, so I didn't stop her doing what she felt she wanted to do as part of her own grieving. I hope he wouldn't have minded.
Incidentally, when she went to see his body, she repaid the kindness by trying to get the funeral home to have a funeral in their chapel, seeing as his body was there, without involving me. They refused, and told me about it later. She then went and placed an 'in memorium' advert (apparently legally she couldn't use the funeral column not being next of kin) in the paper listing everyone in his family right down to second cousins and people he met on a bus once when he was 12, but making no mention of me as his wife nor his best mate who helped me nurse him right to the end. How's that for nasty! She also refused to come to the send off his best mate and I arranged, but instead had her own service elsewhere, that nobody else in their family would agree to attend, so it was just her friends and social groups and not one person there who actually knew Damien. It was all about her, not about him. Her two surviving sons and their wives all wrote her long letters expressing their disgust at the way she behaved, and none of them have spoken to her since. She basically lost all three of her sons and access to her grandkids in one fell swoop. And she's a relationship counseller.  | |
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