|
|
|
|
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/19/2008 7:56:51 PM | moveon is a good organization and I am proud to support their actions, many of which I take (e-mailing members of Congress). Progressive causes are very important to me, and I definitely am glad that moveon is out there. As the above poster said, there is no "liberal media" and conservatives are full of lies. We need something to counter the right wing garbage that is spewed daily. Go get 'em moveon and other progressive groups!!
I also am glad that good men like George Soros step up to the plate to help organizations like moveon who are striving to make the world a better place for all.
Cheers | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:48:05 PM | | media matters was started by a Republican stategest there ace....he simply saw the game and couldn't look himself in the mirror anymore | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:37:11 AM |
moveon is a good organization and I am proud to support their actions, many of which I take (e-mailing members of Congress). Progressive causes are very important to me, and I definitely am glad that moveon is out there. As the above poster said, there is no "liberal media" and conservatives are full of lies. We need something to counter the right wing garbage that is spewed daily. Go get 'em moveon and other progressive groups!!
I also am glad that good men like George Soros step up to the plate to help organizations like moveon who are striving to make the world a better place for all.
Cheers
first off, to crash, there are no more republicans. a real republican is a conservative, anti-war, and believes in limited government, spending, and personal liberty. todays republicans are religious freaks.
designingwoman, we all know about your affiliation with moveon. ok, so does the word liberal have such a negative stigma attached to it that they changed to word to progressive? sorry, but I don't see anything progressive about taxing people into submission and slavery. isn't this the reason we had the boston tea party? also, it's the democrat party. it's not the democratic party. we also don't live in a democracy, by definition, we are a constitutional republic. I know democrats hate this fact, but last time I checked, the quote is, "and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands." if we don't watch out, we are slowly going to transition into a socialist country. vermont, aka a "progressive" state, already has a socialist senator in bernie sanders. yeah, he labels himself as an independent, but admits he is a socialist. then you have people like barack obama who want to come in and raise the capital gains tax as you, designingwoman, have labeled as one of "bushboy's tax cuts for the super rich." do you even know what this tax does? this tax doesn't hurt the rich, it hurts the average joe trying to accumulate a nest egg. the rich are still going to be rich tomorrow. if someone has $1 million in the bank that makes $40,000 in interest, the capital gains doesn't touch the $1 million, it only taxes the $40,000. so good luck trying to "grow" your money. oh, and another great thing about our tax system, if I have $40 billion dollars in the bank that yields no interest, I pay no taxes. government doesn't care about how much I have, the care about how much I earn. in fact, if I let that $40 billion stagnate for a few years not earning anything, I can apply for welfare.
also, about your boy george soros, and barack's girlfriend oprah. by your logic, it's perfectly fine to be a billionaire, unless you make your money selling oil, a product people use. by the way, "sticking it to the oil companies" is only going to stick it to the consumer. I also have this to say to george soros and other anit-gun freaks out there. stop by sometime. I would love to show you my .50 caliber desert eagle, or my sawed off 12 gauge pistol grip shotgun, or my favorite, from military surplus, an AK-47 assault rifle. am I a gun nut? no, I'm a collector. if you lived in my neighborhood, you'd be a collector too.
p.s. you are right, there is no liberal media, and fox news is fair and balanced. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:51:07 AM | | Crash1967: Thanks ever so much there, acette. It appears that "ace" was directed toward me. I said nothing about the political affiliation of the founder of Media Matters, merely that I had learned from another person posting herein that the group's mission statement indicates not that it is a media watchdog, but rather that it is focused exclusively on refuting numerous falsehoods "reported" by conservative media "news" outlets. And, if that ever so clever zinger was directed at jmarquise, it still was rather irrelevant and quite uncalled for. All he really said was that Media Matters is a partisan group. From looking at their mission statement I concluded he is correct. If there exists a liberal news channel somewhere that reports false "news," the MM mission statement implies they would not bother with it. The organization exists to refute false reporting from conservative news outlets. Whether the founder was a Democrat, a Republican, an Independent, or a Sushiite seems rather irrelevant. Some people come to the forum interested in hearing other viewpoints, some come to express their own, some for both. I rather imagine that whatever purpose you come for is diminished by your somewhat smug and aggressive demeanor. It also makes you appear rather immature and less intelligent than you may actually be. Since you seem to have opinions on many subjects I will give you the benefit of the doubt that they are somewhat informed. But taking a jab at an argument or point that wasn't being made just makes you appear less informed and rather on the boorish side. It is my hope that this will be seen not as a personal attack but as what it is, an effort to help you be a bit more aware of how you are perceived. So, lash out at people and things that aren't there if you think it makes you look smarter, or maybe try to be a bit more measured in your responses. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/20/2008 7:21:01 PM | | jmarquise "todays Republicans" are not all religious freaks.. the "freaks" are few and far between but they get the "press coverage" and that small majority does not represent the entire Republican party.. I assure you there are extremists in every party. If you ever watch CSPAN you'll see that the Republicans who represent "the people" in their states do not wear their Religion on their sleeves.. I assure you. Now if every conservative Senator and House Rep got on the floor day in and day out and preached about the low morals in this country then I would agree with you.. it doesn't happen. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/20/2008 7:39:23 PM |  The capital gains tax HAS to be increased to help pay off the deficit!!
The way these people who whine and cry about taxes, they want to live like people who lost their jobs yet run up thousands of dollars in credit card debt. Bushboy's idiotic fiscal policies put us in this mess!! I am sick and tired of people caring more about saving money on their "taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaxes" than about the general well being and strength of our nation. Take it like a man, and quit whining!!!
People need to face reality, and the neocons are leading people to believe in a fantasy world in which we can have a strong military, strong schools etc with very little in the way of tax revenue. The money has to come from somewhere, and the rich have more of it, so they should pay their fair share.
Warren Buffett is a rich man, yet he is willing to pay his fair share--he has spoken out AGAINST Bushboy's ridiculous tax cuts. Bill Gates Sr has spoken loudly against repealing the inheritance tax. These people didn't get where they are by sitting there whining about taxes. They had better things to do. ;-D!!!!
I have respect both for the man who is struggling to make ends meet, and for those of the rich who care about those who are struggling. People like Mr. Buffett and Mr. Soros have integrity, which is sorely lacking in people who care more about themselves than other people. Quite frankly, I am fed up with the selfishness of people who obsess about taxation. We need moveon.org and other groups to put a stop to the kind of nonsense that is putting our country at financial risk. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 9:49:07 AM | Here we go again with the intellectual dishonestly and self delusion. Forget about moveon.org Jmarquise if YOU want any credibility you need to stop spouting the same tired propoganda and lies. If you really believe what you spout its truly sad, but I suspect by virtue of you going for what you see as "easier prey" that you know better then to deal with anyone who can discuss the facts of a situation with you.
first off, to crash, there are no more republicans. a real republican is a conservative, anti-war, and believes in limited government, spending, and personal liberty. todays republicans are religious freaks. No jmarquise saddly thats not true and never really was. There are lots of republicans they are members of a party which has turned into more of a team or a cult. They toss aside their values and their beliefs to march forward more interested in winning or seeming right then in actually being true to any ideal or value. Worse still the only thing conservatives in this day and age believe in is that the current mess the world and this nation are in is not their fault. They believe as you claim that they were betrayed by their party. The facts don;t support this either. The simple truth is Conservativism leads to stagnation which leads to death. Just as it does in life. Change has to happen time does not stand still.
ok, so does the word liberal have such a negative stigma attached to it that they changed to word to progressive? sorry, but I don't see anything progressive about taxing people into submission and slavery. isn't this the reason we had the boston tea party?
First progressive and liberal are not the same thing nor are they words to interchange between them. There is nothing to be ashamed of being a liberal which is the sick irony in that there should be such a stigma attached to being conservative after the disasters the have been the result of conservatism. Its only the masterful delusion that the RNC has created making people believe that Liberals are somehow elietest and they are men of the people despite the complete polar opposite of reality.
Second we covered this already at BEST conservatives are as bad as liberals in the tax and spend issue.
Lets use your delusion for a moment and say its true that Liberals want to tax you into poverty. But they want that money to go to you in services so you don't need to spend as much money at least, the net direction therefor would still be positive.
Conservatives want to tax you to pay for ways to make more money for the upper one percent and the Corporations that are raping this nation and provide no services to you at all. Further they want to create essentially a nation of debt slaves unable to ever advance and only to make money for the upper society. Net direction would be negative. So why is it you seem unable to figure out the reality of it all. And before you say I'm just being extremeist which to a small degree I am for point of example evaluate the facts.
Your Conservatives wanted to privatize the system. Every example of privitazation going on in government has been an absolute unmitigated disaster. From the VA hospital system to FEMA's migration into the Homeland Security office. From private security firms taking over military responsibility to health inspections and science review it has failed not just miserably but utterly. No matter to the conservatives they will still cry pay less in taxes and 200 times in direct funds no matter if all starve and die in illness as long as the precious free market wills it.
Which in even greater irony concludes by the audacity of declaring the revolution. if you studied history at all you would have known that far more then an issue about taxes the revolution and the tea party itself were acts against the control of Corporate governance of our future as well as unrepresented taxes. Study the history of the East India Company for more detail. Hell just do some real study and try freeing your mind from the closet propoganda you have enveloped yourself in. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 3:43:52 PM | Firek,
This is hilarious.........
I don't know whats worse your actually believing this or that they allow you to go online and post...lol
Look at the Congress....The Liberal Democratic Congress what's their theme raise taxs.
Look at local Governments ran by liberals.....Raise Taxs!
Look at the Republican Party Cut taxs.....
Republicans want business to expand Liberals want to regulate it out of business! Liberals want Death tax....are you listening..lol it's not enough that we pay taxs our whole life but when we die the money we already paid taxs on they want to tax it one more time! The Liberals run business out of this country because of taxation and regulations! Then cry where are all the jobs going to? Now they are trying to make the oil companys pay for research for alternative fuel? Say What? Your asking a industry to pay for their own demise? when they are the largest contributor to the tax budget!
Are you listening? are you picking up what I'm laying down? sheeeeeeeesh!
The liberals attack the very sorce of tax money who gets hurt the most? that's right the little guy who goes to the store to feed his kids and goes to the gas pump so he can go to work! The Tax the Rich liberals have never had any real jobs they don't understand economics! and neither do you! Jobs generate money that drives our economy when those jobs are forced to flee to countries who don't rape them who loses? The little guy! Taxation and Regulation are the Ruination of our economy! Let me break it on down for ya! Tobacco companies and smokers are paying out rageous taxs in hopes to run the Tobacco companies out of business...if this country went smoke free as the tree hugging Liberals want it to be who's going to make up those taxs they are now use too? The little guy their goes food and gas prices! Do you just simply not get it???
More taxs don't solve anything except drive the economy in the toilet! The Tax money will be there in abundance if you let the Capital Economy do what it does best make money! The Government is the largest industry that generates no Taxs no product and very little service yet milks everyone for what? To grow and get bigger! That's your Liberals and Democrats in their finest hour! and that's what happens when you let the people who think like you have a job that gives them power over the Economy! They drive it into the toilet and wnoder what the hell happen! Economics 101 a product and service generate money, Taxs take it! What part of that don't you get???? You may want to stop playing videos and watching MTV...cuz you are way out of touch..... | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 3:52:05 PM | dude, that guy is a joke.
Conservatives want to tax you to pay for ways to make more money for the upper one percent and the Corporations that are raping this nation and provide no services to you at all.
I mean, seriously. are you referring to the oil companies? they provide no service to us? then why the hell are we so dependent on oil? do you not even know how the capital gains tax works? that is NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM a tax on the rich. that is a horrible tax on the middle class and the poor. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 4:00:10 PM | | Libertarians are generally pretty solid folks. They have nothing to gain with an agenda and often are able to see the right, left, and everything without filters. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 4:03:02 PM | | thanks itech. I can't seem to get through the skulls of anyone that the capital gains tax is not a tax on the rich. it's a tax on an the investor. if you make $12,000 per year, but make $50,000 because you saved the money you had and bought some stock, you pay a capital gains. it's not an income tax, so therefore how the hell could it be a tax on the wealthy. are you saying that only rich people want to invest in mutual and index funds? | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 6:12:09 PM | Ahhh and now more propoganda and less thought then even before comes to the discussion.
Look at the Congress....The Liberal Democratic Congress what's their theme raise taxs. The Congress is neither Democratic nor Liberal it is a deleberative body. It has in the history of Taxes moved in all directions under all kinds of different leadership. The current "Democratic Majority" in the congress is slim at best and is populated more by centrists then those who can be even remotely tagged as liberal. And the raising of taxes is saddly a requirement to pay for the horribly mismanaged war of a Conservative President and Congress who held no accountability to the costs. It's nice and great sound bites but its not factual, supportable, or even remotely reasonable to make the claim.
Look at local Governments ran by liberals.....Raise Taxs! Aside from your inability to cite such a situation that is not equally occuring with "Republican conservatives" All states of the Union are facing massive deficits because of loss of federal budget money being drained into the war. Not to mention job losses, other loss of tax revenue, increased costs in infrastructure and more, off of which were made worse by privitization of services so that they now cost more and provide less. In other words every one has to talk about raising taxes because you can't have a war an not fund it.
Look at the Republican Party Cut taxs..... Read my lips no new taxes I'm pretty sure that was a Republican. Reagan Raised taxes he was a republican, Bush 2nd and the republican controlled congress cut taxes and now we're in a massive hole to the Chinese. Good Job I'm very impressed with this line of arguement that you can't cite and don't understand in the least but by all means keep shoving your foot in your mouth.
Republicans want business to expand Liberals want to regulate it out of business!
Ahh yes pro business with no regulation must be good. Lets take a look at the last few years of that under GWB shall we?
Lead in toys
poison in dog food
poison in toothpaste
record number of mine collapses and avoidable deaths
Drugs with no measurable benefit but increased likelyhood of fatal complications
Failing aircraft
increase in illegal hazardous waste
increase in pollutants
Several major accounting scandals
Sub prime morgage crisis
bank failures due to said crisis
ongoing excessive pricing for power and utilities while companies make record profits with failed delivery of services.
I could go on but really whats the point you have clearly no idea what you talking about other then spouting nonsense you keep being told by other people who agree with you and have as little understanding of events as you do.
Liberals want Death tax....are you listening
There is no such thing as a Death tax, its and inheretance tax which by the way most of the responsible 1percent want to keep. Its something only effecting those inhereting and excessive amount of money and property pay and does not effect more then 95%. Of those 5% do you really think the tax even remotely effects them? Ohh wait you don't want to argue reality you want to argue fantasy.. For those of you not of the rabid RNC does no wrong clan are you seeing yet why things like moveon.org and media matters exist yet? You have people endlessly parroting talking points but have no idea what it is they are discussing. THIS is why they exist.
it's not enough that we pay taxs our whole life but when we die the money we already paid taxs on they want to tax it one more time! As said its not a death tax its an inheritance tax which unless your estate is greater then 2 million dollars isn't even a factor and if your estate is 2 million dollars and greater but no being handed off to inheritors there is no tax. AKA if you are as rich as Bill Gates and give it all away when you die to foundations and people other then your family there isn;t any tax. Sooo lets review this slowly IF you inherit an estate greater then 2 million dollars of which you never did anything to earn it anyway the government takes about 19.7 percent. Ohh dear the poor survivor is given more then 1.6 million dollars just for being alive and very very lucky.
The Liberals run business out of this country because of taxation and regulations! No actually the conservatives encourage them to flee by allowing them to maintain all the rights, privleges, protections and assistance of being American companies while allowing them to grossly violate protections, laws, standards, and not pay duties. Or would you rather work in the conditions that these companies maintain outside of the US and at the same salary if you can call it that they pay outside? No but you'll spout your view from here till infinity that regulation and taxes are the problem guess what your wrong and its been proven time and again.
Now they are trying to make the oil companys pay for research for alternative fuel? Say What? Your asking a industry to pay for their own demise? when they are the largest contributor to the tax budget!
And where do they get that oil? Hmmm off land owned by the public, and foreign governments. Ohh and we give them we being the government of the people money to go on our land and look for the oil that we then don't tax them for while they make record profits off us. Yes I see your argument its all becoming clearer. Something to think about by the way while your spouting your ignorance, you do realize oil isn't infinate right? They are going to HAVE to find something to replace it someday so we are offering to pay them to continue to have controls over us rather then let some new upstart company figure it out. Wow how tuff we are on these guys.
The liberals attack the very sorce of tax money who gets hurt the most? that's right the little guy who goes to the store to feed his kids and goes to the gas pump so he can go to work! The Tax the Rich liberals have never had any real jobs they don't understand economics! and neither do you! Jobs generate money that drives our economy when those jobs are forced to flee to countries who don't rape them who loses? The little guy! Taxation and Regulation are the Ruination of our economy! Let me break it on down for ya! Tobacco companies and smokers are paying out rageous taxs in hopes to run the Tobacco companies out of business...if this country went smoke free as the tree hugging Liberals want it to be who's going to make up those taxs they are now use too? The little guy their goes food and gas prices! Do you just simply not get it???
This is so wrong its funny. This used to be the equivelent arguement against raising minimum wage. The facts show the results are quite the opposite. We are suffering now because of a LACK of regulation and Taxes not and excess of them. We are paying more now for everything while enjoying much of the enviornment you are advocating and yet the little guy is litteraly being thrown out of their home, but you STILL don't open your eyes. You still spout the parroting of talk radio and other crap. The research is in increasing minimum wage in NJ didn't drive jobs out, they gained, raising min wage in Washington State didn't drive jobs out, I just don't have enough time to go over how completely wrong you are. Chapter and verse are out there stop listening to those who say what you want to hear and start reseaching on your own at least that.
The Tax the Rich liberals have never had any real jobs they don't understand economics! and neither do you!
Actually I do, though you don't let me tell you the bottom line about economics.. Its bull crap. It's based on models and not reality it uses flawed math to try to account for human nature and it fails. Its slow to learn its mistakes too but even economists are starting finally to realize they've been wrong the free market is not all. Greenspan himself finally admited the problem was greater then he imagined and that greed played more then supply and demand ever did. The tax the Rich liberals have had real jobs, and they have had the millions of dollars.. The difference is they took the time to THINK and evaluate and even if they are wrong, or if they wind up being right the FACT is the way things are its been proven the current batch of economists have been dead wrong. Time to try something new.
I mean, seriously. are you referring to the oil companies? they provide no service to us? then why the hell are we so dependent on oil?
How do you imagine being dependant on oil means the oil company provides service? Because they currently are making loads of money on it? If the government didn't give them the land and negociate with foreign powers and protect them when things go south...etc etc The simple truth of the matter is the oil companies are empowered more by the government then by what service or value they actually supply.
I can't seem to get through the skulls of anyone that the capital gains tax is not a tax on the rich. it's a tax on an the investor. if you make $12,000 per year, but make $50,000 because you saved the money you had and bought some stock, you pay a capital gains. it's not an income tax, so therefore how the hell could it be a tax on the wealthy. are you saying that only rich people want to invest in mutual and index funds?
Aside from the fact that the capital gains tax has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic I'll humor you. It is not by strict sense a tax on the rich that much is true, hower lets explore a moment what a capital gain is.
A profit realized after the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased for lower cost. What exactly does that mean? It means for those of you watching from home that this is money made from the sale of something that isn't made by you, or a part of something you put together, its something on the order of Land, stocks, bonds, mineral rights, or precious metals. So lets look at this for a moment who on the larger whole has lots of these non-inventory items to sell enough of at high enough profit that this tax on such a special kind of profit would effect.
If a person has been investing in stocks for a number of years for retirement lets say it might effect them. In the case of previous law pre 2003 it was 15% of such a gain if the asset was held for a year of more if done after 2003 its 5%. The average person who has been investing does so for retirement and would fit in this catagory so I suppose one could say if they sold 100 shares of something for 200 dollars a share more then they bought it they would have paid 3ooo in taxes neting them only 17000 an now only 1000 in taxes for 19000 net. Could argue either way right but really its not something that really effected or hurt the average person to make them worry about it.
If you had lots and lots of stock I suppose it could be painful but if you had the money to buy lots of this kind of asset, well you;ld be rich wouldn't you I mean how many shares of Microsoft can you buy for 128 a share when you only make 10 and hour?
What about the other kind of sale I bought 100 shares and found out I could sell them for 300 dollars more 6 months later? ohhh those?? those are taxed as the normal income rate. I wonder who would do alot of that kind of trading?? clearly not your average person.. but obviously it would hurt anyone doing so,,, so now THAT was reduced to 15%
So is it a rich persons tax... not on the face. In practice however... its questionable. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 6:26:32 PM |
There is no such thing as a Death tax, its and inheretance tax
it's actually called the estate tax and regardless of what you call it, it's money that is taxed over and over unfairly. think about it. first you pay income tax on it, then you pay capital gains as the money grows, then the steal a percentage of it because you die. I already posted my way around this tax if I ever get super rich. a solid gold casket. so you just did a whole post on taxes and then said that the capital gains tax had nothing to do with it. seriously, what chromosome are you missing? or is it more than 1? I support the fair tax. you don't seem to get that through your head. people always throw around the term tax cuts for the extremely wealthy. I proved otherwise. it's cut and dry. save the rocket science for the rocket scientists. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 6:29:19 PM | Thank you Fireknight for an excellent rebuttal!! It is refreshing indeed to see someone on here who understands what is going on around us. Under Republican control, historically, the economy has tanked, the stock markets have crashed, and things got worse. The capital gains tax and inheritance taxes can be increased without affecting the majority of the population. Payroll taxes need to be changed so that ALL payroll income is subject to it, not just the first $90,000--which to me is a special break for the rich. How about changing it so that the FIRST $10,000 is exempt, and then the rest is subject to it??!! Make the rich PAY!!
And, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates have both spoken in FAVOR of keeping the estate tax!! So, even the rich admit that there needs to be sources of revenue LOL Like I said earlier, Buffett and Gates were too busy making money to whine about taxes!! | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 6:35:11 PM |
Make the rich PAY
does psycho babble like this really need a response? I agree, let's start with operah and soros. let's take all $8.5 billion of soros's money and let that old fart live the way he is trying to get everyone else to live. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:11:20 PM | Payroll taxes need to be changed so that ALL payroll income is subject to it, not just the first $90,000--which to me is a special break for the rich. How about changing it so that the FIRST $10,000 is exempt, and then the rest is subject to it??!! Make the rich PAY!!
Sadly, this same ignorance is at the heart of Obama's 'plan' to save social security.
What you get from social security is a function of how much you put in and when - as it is, the payout for the poor is assigned a higher rate of interest than for the rich.
Capping the payroll tax at $90,000 simply means that Bill Gates and an ordinary accountant pay in the same amount, and when they retire they draw out the same amount. It would be silly for Bill Gates to have to pay a million in social security each year, so that he can draw a 10 million dollar social security check in retirement. Social Security is intended to ensure a safety net for the poor, not be an investment vehicle for those who will otherwise be funding their retirement directly.
So when Obama says that raising the taxation exemption will fix social security, he is engaging in groundless popular class warfare and taking advantage of the ignorance of his supporters. Raising the level will help him politically in the short term, since there will be extra revenue to raid in order to pay for other programs. But it will accelerate the insolvancy of the program, since it will be forced to pay back that extra money, with interest.
(The inheritence tax is an entirely different matter.) | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:23:20 PM | Raising the taxation exemption is not, "engaging in groundless popular class warfare and taking advantage of the ignorance of his supporters." The exemption hasn't kept up with increases in income, and nobody's suggesting raising the maximum contribution to a million dollars a year.
But Social Security was an issue that needed to be dealt with 8 years ago and wasn't. So now it's moving to crisis time. More money needs to go in. This is a relatively painless way of doing that - it won't affect 90% of the people, and those it does affect will just see the same percentage of income going to Social Security contribution as the bulk of the population already sees. Up to a higher maximum - not unlimited. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:35:31 PM | ^^^ Ok, but if you do that than even more money will flow out. Remember, you pay out what the person paid in, with (progressive) interest. This is a short-term fix that only brings the date of insolvancy closer than doing nothing at all.
As to why it hasn't kept up with increases in income, why should it? Are there many people who averaged over 90k and are now finding that their social security checks are not big enough? That they wish they were taxed on 110k, say, so that they'd be drawing checks 20% larger? Is this some under-reported crisis?
Frankly, I'm surprised the limit isn't at 50k - those are the people who need social security, not the 100k set. If I had to guess, the reason it's unneccessarily high is precisely because somebody already bumped it up as a short-term solvency fix.
BTW, the reason I describe it as groundless class warfare is because assailing the limit makes for a great soundbite since most people do not understand how social security works. They think the rich are getting off easy by not being taxed, not realizing that *because* they are not being taxed, their 'social security pension' will not be anything remotely like their salary. But we don't hear the candidates explaining that what you get is directly based on what you put in. They only express indignation that the rich are not putting anything in after the limit. It is the marketing of this short-term fix that I consider to be class warfare. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:38:08 PM | There really is no way to open some peoples minds.. I swear its like someone walked in and filled them with pepples. This is what becomes of those who spend too much time listening to sound bites and political talking heads instead of becoming educated on how to learn. Lets try a little more.
it's money that is taxed over and over unfairly. think about it. first you pay income tax on it, then you pay capital gains as the money grows, then the steal a percentage of it because you die.
No its not and no you don't.
First you pay income tax on the money as you earn it. You pay capital gains only if you invest in non inventory assets and then sell them for less then you purchased them. If you sell at the same price no gains tax.. if you sell them after holding them for more then a year.. ohhh like most retirement investers would you pay a negligable 5%. and finally if you die but leave more then 2 million to an inheritor the estate or the inheretor depending on how you view it pays a small percentage. The inheritor never did anything to earn the money nor did they have it previously so they are lucky its not taxed as complete new income.
I already posted my way around this tax if I ever get super rich. a solid gold casket.
That right there is the root of the problem.. you have this delusion that you can be super rich so you are inventing arguements to protect money you do not and will never have, in the deluded belief that such riches are somehow earned in proportion to effort, deservability. This is false and a false premise
so you just did a whole post on taxes and then said that the capital gains tax had nothing to do with it.
Because I was dealing with people who keep bringing up taxes in a discussion about moveon.org and just because I am answering it doesn't mean it belongs in the topic.. I started this with you because of the moronic attacks on liberals being out to tax you for no reason.
I support the fair tax. you don't seem to get that through your head. people always throw around the term tax cuts for the extremely wealthy. I proved otherwise. it's cut and dry. save the rocket science for the rocket scientists. you proved nothing you parroted comments rather plainly without considering the basis for which you are arguing if someone for example only had the income of 12000 dollars but capital gains of 50000 somehow they had alot more income then 12000 the year before or.. got an increadibly lucky tip and managed to purchase a stock that gained more then a thousand times it worth. ergo your arguement while possible is barely that. Nor are you for fair taxes because you are clearly from your debating points unable to reference a "fair" point from which to begin. As for rocket science.. how about you don't argue about matters way past your understanding until you actually research yourself | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:52:39 PM | ok, ok, so basically you repeat what I already say, and then tell me I am wrong. I will lend you some money to buy a clue if you would like. it's amazing that a real pleasant winner like you is single. you actually wasted all that time and said nothing. I said you pay taxes on money over and over again. you said no you don't, then proceeded to prove me right. you pay capital gains on interest earned, trust me my friend, I get several 1099's every year.
That right there is the root of the problem.. you have this delusion that you can be super rich so you are inventing arguements to protect money you do not and will never have, in the deluded belief that such riches are somehow earned in proportion to effort, deservability. This is false and a false premise.
I'm sorry. you know my finances? are you my accountant? also, where did you learn to spell. can your psycho babble be taken seriously when it looks like it was drafted for you by a 6 year old. sorry, but you don't know a thing about my finances. I can tell you this, I am doing better than most dual income families in their mid 40's. you can take that to mean what you want. I also have a considerably wealthy family, so suck it.
I started this with you because of the moronic attacks on liberals being out to tax you for no reason.
perhaps if you ever left the house, you would see that there is no reason for any tax. but you live a sheltered life. | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 9:00:14 PM | Oh, yeah, jmarquise does too. Tax shelters and being rich--the cat's out of the bag No wonder he's whining about taxes.  I have NO sympathy for the rich who whine about paying Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaxes!!!!!
I do however have deep respect for rich men and women who arrived at their wealth through hard work and determination, yet have enough common sense to realize that they should pay a higher share of taxes than Joe Average or the poor. They are realistic, and intelligent folks.
Moveon.org is important, to put a stop to letting those who are spoiled get away with not paying their fair share. I for one am tired of deficit spending and idiots whining about taxes, which are part of life. Take it like a MAN!! Do your patriotic duty, and pay your FAIR SHARE without whining!! I am fed up with right wing crybabies who whine all day about taaaaaaxes but don't offer realistic solutions to problems. Enough already!!!! | |
|
| does anyone take moveon.org seriously
Posted: 4/21/2008 9:38:58 PM |
Oh, yeah, jmarquise does too. Tax shelters and being rich--the cat's out of the bag No wonder he's whining about taxes. I have NO sympathy for the rich who whine about paying Taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaxes!!!!!
I do however have deep respect for rich men and women who arrived at their wealth through hard work and determination, yet have enough common sense to realize that they should pay a higher share of taxes than Joe Average or the poor. They are realistic, and intelligent folks.
Moveon.org is important, to put a stop to letting those who are spoiled get away with not paying their fair share. I for one am tired of deficit spending and idiots whining about taxes, which are part of life. Take it like a MAN!! Do your patriotic duty, and pay your FAIR SHARE without whining!! I am fed up with right wing crybabies who whine all day about taaaaaaxes but don't offer realistic solutions to problems. Enough already!!!!
actually, I don't live a sheltered life, never have, never will. I am not rich, I stated that I was doing better than most people 15 years older than me. do you know why? personal responsibility. I choose to live debt free. I choose to live without a lot of lives luxuries. I drive cars until their wheels fall off. I don't have cable, I cook for myself, I shop at thrift stores, I just don't buy a lot of stuff. I also give to causes I believe in. I actually choose to donate time, rather than money, because I know how money is wasted when not in the right hands aka the federal government. you actually mentioned in a previous post one of the causes I donate to yearly, habitat for humanity. it's a good cause. I will, however, take exception to forced charity. I'm sorry, but that is all that outrageous taxation is. my family has done well because of hard work. I never said I would inherit that money, because I know that they also give a ton of money to charity. I don't whine about taxes, I whine about the tax structure. no matter how you put it, it isn't fair at all. we need total tax reform. the current structure is set up so that the rich will remain rich, and it is next to impossible to accumulate any wealth. I'm sorry, but I want to enjoy an independent retirement without having to worry about getting a check from the government every month. I don't want to be so old when I retire that all my free time is spent at the doctors. not really sure how that would make me a selfish or greedy person. I would also invite you to come to where I live so I can show you how the majority of these "poor" people live. take a drive down red cross st. at noon on a tuesday and see how they live. perfectly healthy people younger than me just hanging out. polluting their own neighborhoods with drugs and crime and receiving government assistance to do so. this is the reality. it's not everyone, but it's a lot. I also see people in those same neighborhoods working. the ones who are working and contributing can't stand where they live. they can't stand the people they are around and can't wait to get out and work hard to do so. this is the american dream. as for you attempting to peg me as a right winger, again you have failed. | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 5
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
|
Home
login 
