| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 7:00:52 AM | I am not real big on "you tube," but on another message board someone directed me to something on there called "The 3 Trillion Dollar Shopping Spree." I thought of it while reading jmarquise's observations about welfare recipients. I think the video puts his critique in a different light.
I am sympathetic to the argument that the government collects more taxes than it reasonably needs to and that some individuals abuse the welfare system. However, I continue to believe that certain things most of us like to have such as police officers, firefighters, schools, and paved roads are desirable and ought to be paid for by taxes and that each should pay his or her fair share which does not mean everyone pays the same amount. And, I believe welfare protections are not intrinsically evil. Some humans, unfortunately, will abuse anything. Some abuse children and women, but I don't think the answer is eliminating children and women. Likewise, eliminating welfare because of some fraud does not seem rational.
I think it isn't a perfect organization, but I do respect the efforts of Moveon and take the organization seriously.
I don't have the link, but if you go to "you tube" and type in "The 3 Trillion Dollar Shopping Spree" you should find the video I mentioned above. It will have a picture of "Commander in Chief" George W. Bush. If you watch the video I think it may alter your perspective on the issues (welfare, taxation, political activism) touched on in this post. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 8:26:23 AM | I continue to believe that certain things most of us like to have such as police officers, firefighters, schools, and paved roads are desirable and ought to be paid for by taxes and that each should pay his or her fair share
....it called the Commons and those that make money off of it should have to pay more taxes as they use it more..... | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 9:22:36 AM | | they don't want to solve the crime problems. if there was no crime, the police would have nothing to do and we can't take that power out of the hands of the authorities. police need criminals. I could cut crime in half in this town in 15 minutes. I know where all the crime is. all they need to do is have a couple of sting operations. they don't do it. they don't want to fix the problem. they want to show us the problem on the news to try to scare us. they use fear to justify that $1.5 million dollar police budget. if crime increases, they can ask for more tax money. if we see an increase of crime on the news, we will mindlessly give them our money. this is classic terrorism. using fear to get what they want(money). | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 9:54:04 AM |
they don't want to solve the crime problems. if there was no crime, the police would have nothing to do and we can't take that power out of the hands of the authorities. police need criminals. I could cut crime in half in this town in 15 minutes. I know where all the crime is. all they need to do is have a couple of sting operations. they don't do it. they don't want to fix the problem. they want to show us the problem on the news to try to scare us. they use fear to justify that $1.5 million dollar police budget. if crime increases, they can ask for more tax money. if we see an increase of crime on the news, we will mindlessly give them our money. this is classic terrorism. using fear to get what they want(money).
This part I'll have to disagree with. Having been in the position Police Officers are... I can say that they, for the most part... the street cop,, would like to 'sting' and stop crime as much as possible. Trust me... there are enough lunatics to keep a force busy without letting up on 'sting operations' to generate more money.
The problem has a name. It's called 'Internal Affairs'. And, Internal Affairs department bow to the local clout. Whatever is PC correct at that time.
The real police officers are truly underpaid for what they do and under staffed.
It's unreal how many times an officer can go on ... i.e. ... a violent domestic dispute... bullets flying.. and the officer cannot shoot back/defend themselves without a LOT of red tape afterwards. AND... when car loads of criminals are taken in to jail on a nightly basis and are back on the street within that same night... it's very frustrating for the cops. Truly is. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 10:08:44 AM | they don't want to solve the crime problems. if there was no crime, the police would have nothing to do and we can't take that power out of the hands of the authorities. police need criminals. I could cut crime in half in this town in 15 minutes. I know where all the crime is. all they need to do is have a couple of sting operations. they don't do it. they don't want to fix the problem. they want to show us the problem on the news to try to scare us. they use fear to justify that $1.5 million dollar police budget. if crime increases, they can ask for more tax money. if we see an increase of crime on the news, we will mindlessly give them our money. this is classic terrorism. using fear to get what they want(money
thats just plain wrong, crime is controlled by the criminals not the cops, the cops react to the crimes. so what you would have us think is that people knock over old wowen and steal there purses because the cops need them to do it.so adults molest children so the cops have jobs, seems to me you are just laying the blame at the wrong feet,if u could cut half the crime in your town in 15 mins, then why dont u do your civic duty and help the cops make your town a better place for yourself and those around you, my guess is your are just talking b.s..so if they arrest a drug dealer, u dont think there will be another 1 to take his place as he sells death ty his people, oh my fault thats the cops at it again, must be some good kool-aid in your town..your theory is like saying that o.b.g.y. doctors tell there patience to ahve un-protected sex because thats good for business, smoke another one ! | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 10:20:49 AM | | I am not blaming the cops. people take orders from a higher authority. my point is this. I know where the crime is. why do they wait for it to happen. what happened to doing some stakeout or sting operations. why not try to prevent the crime. I go to the high crime areas of my town. there are NEVER cops there. they are catching speeders. it's not the fault of the officers, they don't get to choose the assignment. I am also not saying that perhaps your town is different. but let me tell you, living in detroit, washington DC, memphis, and here, you don't have to look too far for crime. I agree that cops are underpaid. like I said, the blame isn't with the officers themselves, it's with city management. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/22/2008 10:28:03 AM |
I am not blaming the cops. people take orders from a higher authority. my point is this. I know where the crime is. why do they wait for it to happen. what happened to doing some stakeout or sting operations. why not try to prevent the crime. I go to the high crime areas of my town. there are NEVER cops there. they are catching speeders. it's not the fault of the officers, they don't get to choose the assignment. I am also not saying that perhaps your town is different. but let me tell you, living in detroit, washington DC, memphis, and here, you don't have to look too far for crime. I agree that cops are underpaid. like I said, the blame isn't with the officers themselves, it's with city management.
Good Thread topic. Rather than get off topic here, I'll start a new thread because this is a subject matter which should be addressed.
Thanks for bringing it to mind! and would greatly appreciate your thought process on the thread. I'll get it started now. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 4/23/2008 10:03:05 AM | | anyone find it ironic that moveon.org went crazy over the ABC debate and started demanding all kinds of petitions and crap. yet they were the ones who made up the whole 100 years war propaganda. this is a perfect example of why I don't take them serious. the complain about one thing, then turn around and do the exact same thing. give me a break. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 5/7/2008 6:48:44 PM | here's what those **stards at MoveOn are doing now;
Dear friends,
Burma has been devastated by a cyclone—and by the military junta's failure to help its people cope. Help raise relief funds for distribution by Burma's monks:
In the wake of a massive cyclone, tens of thousands of Burmese are dead. More than 40,000 are missing. A million are homeless.
But what's happening in Burma is not just a natural disaster—it's also a catastrophe of bad leadership.
Burma's brutal and corrupt military junta failed to warn the people, failed to evacuate any areas, and suppressed freedom of communication so that Burmese people didn't know the storm was coming when the rest of the world did. Now the government is failing to respond to the disaster and obstructing international aid organizations.
Humanitarian relief is urgently needed, but Burma's government could easily delay, divert or misuse any aid. Today the International Burmese Monks Organization, including many leaders of the democracy protests last fall, launched a new effort to provide relief through Burma's powerful grass roots network of monasteries—the most trusted institutions in the country and currently the only source of housing and support in many devastated communities. Click below to help the Burmese people with a donation and see a video appeal to Avaaz from a leader of the monks:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/burma_cyclone/77.php
Giving to the monks is a smart, fast way to get aid directly to Burma's people. Governments and international aid organizations are important, but face challenges—they may not be allowed into Burma, or they may be forced to provide aid according to the junta's rules. And most will have to spend large amounts of money just setting up operations in the country. The monks are already on the front lines of the aid effort—housing, feeding, and supporting the victims of the cyclone since the day it struck. The International Burmese Monks Organization will send money directly to each monastery through their own networks, bypassing regime controls.
Last year, more than 800,000 of us around the world stood with the Burmese people as they rose up against the military dictatorship. The government lost no time then in dispatching its armies to ruthlessly crush the nonviolent democracy movement—but now, as tens of thousands die, the junta's response is slow and threatens to divert precious aid into the corrupt regime's pockets.
The monks are unlikely to receive aid from governments or large humanitarian organizations, but they have a stronger presence and trust among the Burmese people than both. If we all chip in a little bit, we can help them to make a big difference. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 5/7/2008 9:08:42 PM | first off, to crash, there are no more republicans. a real republican is a conservative, anti-war, and believes in limited government, spending, and personal liberty. todays republicans are religious freaks.
Then you don't know any "real" Republicans.. only a very small minority of conservatives are "religious freaks" they take their religion very seriously.. but you won't see them protesting or laying in the streets or getting arrested for criminal mischief or disorderly conduct like you would extremist anti-war freakish liberals. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 5/7/2008 9:11:21 PM | There is only one "real" Republican running this year and her name is Hillary Clinton!
She was a Goldwater girl and still is. The republican party is dead! Neo-cons have stolen it! | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 5/7/2008 9:29:27 PM |
but you won't see them protesting or laying in the streets or getting arrested for criminal mischief or disorderly conduct like you would extremist anti-war freakish liberals.
....no, they will be the ones getting arrested for laying in front of clinics, shooting Dr.'s, committing acts of terror such as blowing up Olympic Park in Atlanta.... | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 12:25:34 PM | just felt like reviving this thread after going to the moveon.org website today. this is the reason I don't take them seriously. go to their website and see what the headline is. if you are too lazy to do that, I will quote it for you.
"FOX: Stop the smears
FOX is using racism, prejudice, and fear to smear Barack Obama and his family. Each time they apologize—then they do it again. Can you join over a quarter million people in sending a message to FOX?"
first off is this, I don't watch fox news but if someone has an example of them using racism against barack and his family, post a link. my biggest problem is the part where they say that fox news is using fear to smear barack obama and his family. imagine that, moveone accusing someone else of using fear? WTF? coming from the kings of using fear tactics. here are some of their uplifting and unbiased links!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9L3kEQXjrU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq30lapbC9c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suNqiAgE1kw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ9VXoF7mw8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxqOhmOuU1w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQgJl9d5KCQ
that should get everyone started. here is a link to their youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=karinmoveon
watch some of their fear mongering videos and leave a comment. oh yeah, it's moveon, you can't comment. opinions aren't wanted, we must all think alike. no independent thought, big brother is watching you. silence of the voice of opposition. what a bunch of ***holes. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 12:36:01 PM | In the VERY beginning MoveOn was issue oriented.......it rapidly became a partisan tool @ which point I removed myself from their listings. Even tho I share their stance on some issues, I dislike ANY fear-based appeals for political gain. Reactionary BS is unappealing on either side of the political fence.
It's now basically the 'conservative talk radio' for the Dem internet crowd.
So by that logic, the inner cities should provide more in taxes for their over utilization of the Police force?
Who loses more money if the inner city erupts into chaos & makes more money if it does not.......the crackhead on the corner, or the owner of several wharehouses full of imported electronics? | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 12:41:57 PM |
In the VERY beginning MoveOn was issue oriented.......it rapidly became a partisan tool @ which point I removed myself from their listings. Even tho I share their stance on some issues, I dislike ANY fear-based appeals for political gain. Reactionary BS is unappealing on either side of the political fence.
It's now basically the 'conservative talk radio' for the Dem internet crowd.
I am totally with you. if you are going to call another group out for doing something, but you are doing the same thing, how can anyone take them seriously? I am sure that they do lots of good stuff, but give me a break. fear is how we elect our officials, no matter how wrong it is. it's what people respond to. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 12:42:23 PM | Shame on Moveon! I'll give it one thing. It makes any Right biased site/news look like Kindergarten.
Moveon is deep seated in far Left tactics.
Obama and camp knew these heavily funded (by rich Dems) sites were doing their job and thus Obama opted out of Public funded campaign money. It's like we are dummies and don't know what's going on. They really underestimate Middle America. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 12:47:07 PM | | i have seen moveon go after dems too.... something you don't hear repubs doing...just look at these boards... you see the left contradict and question each other but one does not hear the "right" doing that.... | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 12:56:56 PM | The extremes of both sides cross the line constantly. The problem is that most of left side sees when it goes too far and protest/argue/fight about it. The right never questions never thinks, never debates. You see it here in this forum. Never mind truth, never mind fact, just espouse a position and it must be true no matter what.
As I've said in another thread if people would stop viewing everything as red or blue and start thinking maybe something could change maybe this great nation could be saved from the abyss it's running toward lead by lemmings. But every day I hold out less hope. People don't want to think, they don't want to consider the possiblity they are wrong or fooled. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 1:04:31 PM |
something you don't hear repubs doing...just look at these boards... you see the left contradict and question each other but one does not hear the "right" doing that....
Please cite where you are finding this to be true. Thanks in advance. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 1:39:25 PM | I take it very seriously. I think it's a good organization. They're a political organization, so of course they're openly in favor of progressive politics. They admit that. They don't pretend to be a "news" organization like fox. *ewwwww* | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 1:53:22 PM | | I've tried to read moveon's web site to see what all the hooplah is all about just don't like the format of the page or something. Very uninteresting. | |
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| does anyone take moveon.org seriously Posted: 6/30/2008 2:00:42 PM | best thing ive ever seen bill o reilly do, and it is a true achievement:
to expose move on.org and its brothers and sisters under the "open society" umbrella of george soros funded organs used to corrupt and control newsrooms worldwide.
soros, with his 8.5 billion dollar fortune, much of it made speculating in the oil and financial markets and ruining entire countries in the process, has no trouble throwing 100 milion dollars to the winner of the democratic primary. chump change to him. lets see if he can buy this election. so far he hasnt been able to, in the past. | |
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