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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/28/2009 10:39:08 PM |
It is important to to remember that
Firstly, in light of the topic, that phrasing could be taken to be rather patronising if not snobbish. Who says it is important to remember what you then went on to say? Which was (for those who’ve forgotten)...
the use of complex linguistic multi syllabic descriptors are great for "blowing your ar$e" at the conference or here on Pof when you are attempting to show how up yourself you are,
Your choice of words..."blowing your ar$e" and “up yourself” ...clearly seems intended to be derogatory and infers that you disapprove of someone who uses language well. It also seems based on an assumption that a person might use language a particular way just to impress, rather than because that is just them talking as they normally talk as a result of their own love of language. I think that says more about the person who thinks the other person is trying to impress, than it does about the accused...who has probably made no particular effort to sound impressive...just is.
but will just alienate your from a less "literate" but non the less intelligent or valuable part of the society.
Well that little bit of friendly advice is based on an assumption that the person you are addressing cares about being alienated from the “less literate”. Anyway, if this “more literate” person is being alienated, then isn’t that the doing of the "less literate" given that you are implying that they are the ones who have a problem with the "more literate"... aren't they the ones being exclusionary? Snobbish? Expecting others to be more like them in order to accept them? Given that your post doesn't seem to reflect positively on people who have certain standards of usage/expectation regarding use of language, lest they be accused of blowing their ar$e and being up themselves, it seems that you too have made your choice about the section of society you value, and in doing so you could well alienate yourself from the “more literate”. (Anticipated response...that you don’t care about alienating the “more literate”...next comment...Clockwork Toy probably doesn’t care about alienating the “less literate”...goodness, where to go from here... )
As a general comment...why are the very literate always held accountable for any discrepancy? Why is the onus always on a very literate person to "dumb down" use of language to make everyone else comfortable? Why can't the rest of us stop whining about someone's mastery of language, lose the chip on our shoulder about them being better at something than we are...watch, admire, learn, and smarten up? Would it be so bad?
This prevailing attitude...put it in a football context...the professional players aren't expected to tone it down or throw their game just so the junior players watching on don't feel shown up, or so that if they joined in they would be let feel as skilled as the players who are actually better. Quite the opposite...they are role models, displaying a skill level to aspire to. Imagine the junior players calling the pros "smart ar$es" and show-offs and getting all knotted up and resentful about it. Why do we cheer for the physical gifts of others but scorn the intellectual ones?
Nah...if someone has wings they should fly, and I'm happy to watch and admire. (Love your work CT.) | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/28/2009 11:06:41 PM | Soulmate,
Just wanted to mention on what you expressed, I understand appreciate respect for items of 'sentimental' value, for those who are previous owners. Said items were of great and high sentimental value when held by previous owners and may not be respected as such when handed down through the generations.
I am one juxtaposed between being a man who likes his modern *gadgets* and the Holder Of Those Previously Loved items of old. I have two blankets that were lovingly crafted by my grandmother that both have lived through one house fire, one flooded laundry, one ex wife and one ex girlfriend. They look like plain old blankets and also serve a great purpose in keeping me warm in winter. I actually cringe at the thought of what may potentially happen when they move to the next generation.
Thinking of different levels of literacy is always a difficult one to pin down with people, I look for meaning and understanding in the intent of what one is trying to say more than what one is actually saying. We have those whom are extremely literate and can express themselves rather eloquently in verse or in word as well as those whom cannot express anywhere near as well as someone more literate. Communication is a life skill, some use it well, some dont and some look to improve. Literacy is a life skill, an ability to read, write, listen and COMPREHEND in a particular language. The art of expressing abstract ideas. This I feel one also can gain or lose comprehension based on our own life experiences, understanding of certain subjects, our likes and dislikes, our own opinions and then filtered through our belief systems.
Some have an enjoyment of Literature, some dont, viva la choice.
and please do not call thyself a dunce, understanding of literacy or not, does not make a dunce of thee. | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 1:00:51 AM | | ClockworkToy loves words and so do I . It's as simple as that for me , but to take it a step further and actually say something in words to another there is an intent of course , but almost over riding the 'intent is the use the words are put to . A person who can manipulate words is at a great advantage in discussion . When I say I love words I mean it because , especially the English language so rich in that its words come historically from so far back and are such an integration of ancient and older other cultures than just Anglo Saxon ... so they to me have a potency that includes History , culture , Latin ... not ever to forget the influence of Latin . We English took the best from all cultures and wrapped it up lovingly to make us the most meaningful , rich language of all . I can't find enough words to express my love of our language and when I hear **stardised stuff spoken in the name of cool I hate it .Oh .. this post can't come close to what I want to say so that others may understand . {And I'd hate to be on the receiving end of a , well , disapproving post from CT !!!}Oh and I'm not dismissing the old Anglo saxon words . | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 1:56:08 AM |
The art of expressing abstract ideas. This I feel one also can gain or lose comprehension based on our own life experiences, understanding of certain subjects, our likes and dislikes, our own opinions and then filtered through our belief systems.
Absolutely, our personal world-view filters everything we see, say, read, do and hear.
IMO the better the writer the more probability of conveying the same message to all. Although I must admit I can read the same thing on a different day … (including my own posts) ... and comprehend it or not. This usually depends on the stimulation of the day, that is, a full-on day of challenging study and/or uni as opposed to a full day of sick kids and mayhem will see my comprehension levels move from 10 to none ..... or perhaps that is my tolerance levels... either/or I tend to stay away from intelligence of any kind on the latter days as reciprocating on even a slightly sensible level seems above and beyond me …  | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:11:53 AM |
although my son informs me.. he much prefers modern... than a red cedar table..
Aaaaaggghhh! Philistine, plebeian, heretic, burn him at the stake! How can anyone not appreciate the exceptional beauty of this timber, the amazing growth rings that are exposed when it’s back sawn, the exquisite richness of it’s colour and grain, the soft warm lustre of it’s texture beneath your finger tips. The un-felled tree it also to be marvelled at, 60 metres tall, making it one of (if not the) tallest rainforest tree in the country. Now being virtually impossible to be grown commercially it’s only a memory of an Australia of the past, a memory kept alive by a few sticks of furniture gathering dust under grandmas house, cast aside to make way for the sausage-machine produced Chinese crap, or the supposedly ‘funky’ Ikea flat-packs that are out of fashion before you can figure out how to assemble them.
Oops, this is a literacy thread…sh!t…how to get back on topic…errmm…
Unlike almost extinct timber, literature or rather the ability to produce it is a skill, a skill that can be learnt and developed…sanded and polished to a produce a thing of beauty. It’s also a skill that can be passed on, so to mock someones ability is a crime, because they may stop hanging out and imparting their skill with the rest of us plebs.
It frustrates me enormously that I can’t get my thoughts out of my brain and onto a page. Perhaps instead of taking ‘How to forge your dads signature 101’ and ‘Car jacking for beginners’ whilst at High school I should have taken a literature subject, or at least finished High school. I actually envy some of the more verbacious posters on the forums, perhaps this is why some people mock the so called ‘literary snobs’…because they are jealous…bit childish really. I much prefer to read and enjoy them… and hopefully pick up some of there skills via osmosis.
Far more frustrating than ‘literary snobs’ are the ‘literary slobs’…those that have the intellectually ability to write well, but don’t. I mean…if your not using your brain…can I have it? | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:47:17 AM | Have to agree with Naamah that the exclusivity or ostrisisation is mostly from the ug, monosyllabic humanbeings and I have found in particular the men. I have often been accused of swallowing the dictionary with an insulting tone to it and it is always from men. It confuses me that for some reason they perceive my language as somehow delivered to make them feel stupid, small, whatever little chip they need to make bigger by trying to make me feel inadequate...they are just penile craniums and as such I no longer rise to the bait I merely answer...yes I have swallowed the dictionary and it tastes better than you.
Whoops am guilty of being a literary slob....seriously guilty but poetry is no longer fiscally viable as a means to make a living....in fact I reckon it is more socially acceptable to declare having Hep C than it is to say I am a poet and lover of fine musical language be it English or not...though frustrates the hell out of me cos some translations are terrible.
Without some of us genuinely delighting in language as other delight in sport, fast cars, cooking etc the world would be a much poorer, increasingly ignorant place. I know that when I have taught poetry at schools that the kids (grade three curriculum demands poetry...why not the other years?) loved it, more especially the children (often boys) who have learning and or socialising difficulties. They get to write what they want, how they want it, there is no right or wrong, no grading and the look on their faces when they produce some genuinely brilliant poetry is soooo worth it, for once these children fly and honestly they often produce the best peices even when judged by their peers. It is due to one such visiting teacher when I was 8. that I fell in love with writing poetry and I know that there are children in WA who will remember my class with fond memories of making literature fun and maybe I will have inspired further poets before we entirely die out unless employed by advertising agencies. My trouble with teaching is that whilst I love the inclass and am good, I would hate, so utterly hate having to mark adolescents' essays, especially here in Aus cos the level of literacy is appalling, most especially within the State School system.
Do I care if my friends don't have the same language skills....not on your nelly. I care that my friends have good hearts, live their lives well (according to their opinion not mine) I have two girlfriends who are profoundly dyslexic, one of whom I consider to be one of the most compassionate, insightful woman I have had the pleasure to call a good friend. And unlike men, women ask for directions if lost and when I use a word unknown to them they don't get all huffy they just ask...."Do wot??!!! Please explain"
Studdertype.........pmsl...I so know what you mean | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:26:28 AM | Clockwork
"Whakanui ana mātau i te tangata pono.Tipuna wahine, kaumātua"
"Whakanui ana mātau i te tangata pono" you can guess for yourself but it is a complement
"Tipuna wahine" is Grandmother
"kaumātua" is a respected elder
The example is a poignant one as it goes directly to translation, my translation of your words can be completely mistaken based on my level of understanding
Looks like something about the true man knows a real woman when he sees one?
and your translation given your level of literacy in the language used is perfect as part of the example, completely wrong.
clearly seems intended to be derogatory and infers that you disapprove of someone who uses language well. It also seems based on an assumption that a person might use language a particular way just to impress, rather than because that is just them talking as they normally talk as a result of their own love of language
Thanks Naamah / Grey
this particularly highlights that you take comments as a personal slight when none was meant, its just the language that some people (me in this case ) use, I have no difficulty understanding and accepting the way that english (even taboo slang) is used to drive an imagery, no problem with the use of "colourful" language to influence that imagery, I wouldn't ask that those that commonly use a highly literate std "lower" themselves just for the sake of being understood by those "literally" less fortunate or with less of a need or love of the language. Just understand that when they misunderstand and take offence you may lose a chance to learn something...........we are all still learning...or are "we" there already. | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:58:43 AM | Hey cool! I log in and it seems we're having a literacy pissing contest!
But really fellas, I feel I'm going to have to step in here and translate for our wider audience of forumites, who may not understand the obvious ancient French terminology used in this phrase: "Whakanui ana matau i te tangata pono.Tipuna wahine, kaumatua."
What it means is, literally, this: "Listen to your Granny when she sayeth that good guys finish last and women are only attracted to jerks".
Ok then, carry on... as you were... | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 4:01:56 AM | that wouldn't be the wahine from wangaratta you're talking about would it?... you've met her too?...
and her granny it seems too... | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 4:33:06 AM | Clock
the intent of the use is an extreme example of potential for an inability to understand, and as an aside is a complement to soulm8 if she translated it. The best translation would be
"I respect an honest person, grandmother, venerable elder"
in the language used, these terms communicate a great depth depth of respect.
you did ok but you put the dreaded man slant on it that our sex is so blamed for doing, see greys post earlier ug or was that UGH of course the women ive met on this site have been a sight but may also not be as literary as others....but would it stop me from looking for the light behind their eyes? language and literacy to the best that you can to communicate with the audience (be it one or many) "snobbery" is shown in inflexibility
and the reply was a famous quote "NWGFFO" apparently...
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 9:34:30 AM | 4 pages of pissing
Who cares?
if all of you are so argumentative over a stupid subject,
hate to meet yous in a bar
The Mnid Bolgges | |
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| More Gramma Dramma.......Punctuate to Propagate
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:29:01 PM | ^^^^
Ive met Yous and for a Yarpie he's not a bad bloke to have a scotch with.
in fact he'll probably be there this afternoon lapping in the mellow moods of the pianoman soaking up the atmosphere of the sunny queensland afternoon, laughing his ass of at the RU last night.
collecting his winnings and buying me a beer!
We'll probably converse in man talk
Prak: Ugg unga booga
Yous: Unk ahh Ugh
to this the blokes at the table will all laugh heartily, as we all know and get the joke, except Dave, he's a bit of a blouse and doesnt keep up with shakespeare, kipppling and the like
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 7:34:49 PM | if all of you are so argumentative over a stupid subject,
hate to meet yous in a bar
Hmmmm... you raise an interesting point. It almost makes one dizzy to stand on the precipice of intelligent debate and peer down, binoculars at the ready, at the mind-boggling range of IQ points behind your statement. But don't you think that when one is engaged in a figurative pissing contest, it pays to play with a loaded, um... deck?
It's not that I think people who can't express themselves well are less intelligent. It's that they actually are.
Likewise, a limited vocabulary doesn't hint at membership of the dullard club, it screams paid up subscriber.
How can anyone seriously say otherwise?
Seriously? No, I can't say that I disagree. | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/29/2009 8:29:50 PM | Based on the premise that life is too short for bad food and poor spelling, its important to spell well - it shows you care. Personally, I'd like to communicate with people that actually care about what they say.
Our ability to communicate well separates us from other life forms. Some of the people that I've communicated with are testament to this.... | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 1:43:20 AM | ^^^^oh darlin... you'll live.. try 5 posts.. apparently i post long posts..
me?looks innocent?... noooooo..never.. .. it probablyy does effect my posts being longer though.... but im a post snob..im picky.. with only 5...
although my son informs me.. he much prefers modern... than a red cedar table..
Aaaaaggghhh! Philistine, plebeian, heretic, burn him at the stake! How can anyone not appreciate the exceptional beauty of this timber, the amazing growth rings that are exposed when it’s back sawn, the exquisite richness of it’s colour and grain, the soft warm lustre of it’s texture beneath your finger tips. The un-felled tree it also to be marvelled at, 60 metres tall, making it one of (if not the) tallest rainforest tree in the country. Now being virtually impossible to be grown commercially it’s only a memory of an Australia of the past, a memory kept alive by a few sticks of furniture gathering dust under grandmas house, cast aside to make way for the sausage-machine produced Chinese crap, or the supposedly ‘funky’ Ikea flat-packs that are out of fashion before you can figure out how to assemble them.
YOU made me smile broadly.. the passion and knowledge you possess MUST be shared to those who simply..just don't know...... and i must say... in defence of my son.. Me conjuncting both statements.. re the table... might'nt be apt..specifically..(the table)
in other words.. My feeling would be.... he does love old stuff... but dosen't want to be tied down so much by.. it... Im sure once he gets it.. .. he will adore it.. for the simple fact...it will have meaning.... quality.. (my intuition has some depth on why he has stated ..' don't feel obligated...ma to keep this stuff'.. and quite frankly alot of my old furniture is being stored.. where termites are progressing tru.. i don't have the heart..to go and see...i know detachment...(but I fell in love with an old dressing table my nana had in a shed..when quite young.. it was given to me for my 14th bday... and my hubby.. many years later sanded it.. stained it... i love him for that... i would be very heart broken if the termites have eaten it.. id rather not know.. in all honesty..)
and he knows I still have his seasame st sheets.. and all his teeth..(fark first I made them then i had to buy them back.. I paid for em).. and on a level.. he feels... the sentimentality......
you' must' pass your passion/info on julian.. yes wood/trees had a life... some are rare..
just jase... I chose to knight myself with the dullard title... and I have no qualms..with it.. it is just a label.. and being a hippy from a town scorned upon.. I only find such labels.. a reflection of the labeller.. (nooone here labelled me that)...rather than the label... I have no problem in admitting to myself my good and bad points.. the truth is a double edged sword.. at first it hurts.. to acknoweledge deficiencies within oneself.. but thats the sharpness of truth.. but the sword is a clean cut.. and it penetrates the spirit.. which is the foundation of truth/love in my learnings..
my whole post was a soulfelt analogy... of passion.. for literature as well as other passions.. why can we acknowledge one passion such as art? woodwork?.. yet not literature?(eg only)
In fact.. I have some very old books... and if I had no descendants.. I would pass them onto clockwork... because regardless of the content.. my intution tells me.. he would treasure.. the age/the words.. etc...(and im assuming he is mentoring someone the love of books/literature so he could pass them on)..
re the quilt?.. well unless you can pass on that sentiment.. to a loved one.. then I would write a descriptive biography on your nana.. abit of history... and donate them to a curator.. who document history etc.. there are such craft/museums...and it would be well repsected loved...
Thank you prak.. for the compliment.. When 1 speaks from a dialect.. (maori in this case...i assumed..)... it represents home/soul//depth.. and has more meaning... in that dialect..
either that or.. they are insulting you and its easier to take the piss.. if nooone knows what the fook your saying..lol
and I thank clockwork.. for adjusting my D hat.. and at least trying to help me understand... (i would off looked it up.. but it was recycling day... woohoo)
now ..i will give the street intepretation...' your 'alright'... for an old duck'...
or 1 of the young'uns.. who eventually' get' what im saying to their spirit..when 1 on 1........some have no idea what they feel let alone the words to articulate it.. (someone needs to show them)
they can go from wanting to kick my arse..(cause I speak direct and i look tough enough to take em on..without judging them)....... to holding their hand out.. for me to shake..and the one word they say.. is RESPECT...and a nod of the head... that word in street talk.. is poetry....
and by the way.. I don't think intelligence is denoted by education.. I know some kids.. who had a shit start in life.. no mentors.. no education.. . but are clearly intelligent...
just saying...
peace... | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 2:11:35 AM | There's absolutely "nothing" wrong with judging future potential by rating intelligence. If people are so lazy, or simply too apathetic, to care how they appear in their profiles it says a lot about the way they think, and it's not a pretty sight...lol.
With spell-checking editors within easy reach on the net there should be no excuse for misspelled words, at the very least.
That said, I'll cut people slack for a misused word or context here and there. We all make mistakes. But to have a profile riddled with examples of unintelligible thought just screams incompatibility to anyone who treasures educated thought. It would be a dealbreaker with me.
 Mo | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 4:16:25 AM | I was going to add furtehr discourse of this forum/post/subject, but now Im too exhausted and I think I will just grunt.....and often  | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 6:35:53 AM | perhaps i misread, subtlety not a strong point?
as we all know and get the joke
perhaps you forget the blissful writings of your own words............ | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 8:30:30 AM | ahhhh ct
It's an excellent example of the difference between literacy and communication too.
Because literacy seems to be missing entirely, but communication isn't hindered at all by the absence. It's a mystery though why anyone would want to communicate this sort of thing about themselves?
I figure it must be related to the insecurity of the 'sandcastle smasher'. Like, some people are so insecure about their abilities they just trample on stuff created by other, more talented people. Presumably because it makes the insecure loser feel superior, but they don't realise the sandcastle builders don't care! hahaha
Because the sandcastle smasher is just a figure of fun to the builders and really of no consequence, other than as a brief comical interlude.
It's kinda funny too that someone would, apparently unconsciously (<--- snicker), identify so strongly with the negative male stereotype of the unintellectual neanderthal that they'd want to announce on a global forum how well they fit it.
Apparently it's a seductive attraction?
hahahaha your too easy | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 4:12:40 PM | I wonder if I am witnessing a demonstration of literature that is not communication... After all, if it were you would think that someone, although I am not sure who exactly, would have the message by now … and what message would that be??? …. Well I have to say even with healthy kids and a healthy mind …. I'm sitting with pinocchio on this one.... | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/30/2009 10:14:10 PM |
"hahahaha your too easy!" Pinocchio said to Geppetto, with a vacant look. As his little wooden head wobbled about comically. 
hey dont get offended, i was having a joke at your expense and it was fun
Which shows another point not addressed here;
Does/Can high literacy mean low self esteem?????
always feeling the need to defend oneself?
Lets see | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/31/2009 3:56:57 AM |
"Oh Pinochio, let me sit on your face so you can tell me some lies"
WOW …. never would have picked it … Puts a different slant on some of the brown nosing that has been done in this ere thread …..
Although I don't like your chances …. unless of course he knows for a fact who he is .... Gee, such a complex position to consider might find Pinocchio having no sense of his own truthfulness and cause a very confused state of mind … hmmm
You know what they say though …. gottta go with the flow cause “If you fake the funk, your nose will grow.” | |
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| Are you a literacy snob?
Posted: 8/31/2009 8:01:39 AM |
If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies… It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it.
Albert Einstein
Indeed it would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the contents.
The real measure of a person is how good they are at heart. | |
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