ip32
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Joined: 7/1/2008
Msg: 301 | |
| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/15/2009 7:20:34 PM | well lets try bringing some reason and accountability back in. If a woman is so drunk they're not going to remember or enjoy the occasion why the **** would you push it. If a man is physically capable of having sex, he should be mentally capable of noticing the difference between responsive and passed out.
If a girl is in a Vounarable (excuse the spelling) position the worst they should expect the next day is a hangover on your couch and a strong coffee. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/15/2009 8:15:47 PM |
well lets try bringing some reason and accountability back in. If a woman is so drunk they're not going to remember or enjoy the occasion why the **** would you push it. If a man is physically capable of having sex, he should be mentally capable of noticing the difference between responsive and passed out.
If a girl is in a Vounarable (excuse the spelling) position the worst they should expect the next day is a hangover on your couch and a strong coffee.
Agreed... Thank you Mr. Obvious. What I can't figure out, is why everyone assumes the only two situations are sober or blitzed out of her mind. Plenty of women claim impairment of judgment after only one drink. The situation where a guy takes advantage of a woman passed out on her feet, or lying on her back, isn't the issue most of the posts here are talking about when personal responsibility is brought up. It's the total lack of responsibility some women seem to feel even one or two drinks justifies. I can't believe this thread has progressed this far without that being painfully obvious to all. I guess I expect too much from people. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/15/2009 8:27:27 PM | Wow! Some guys still think that taking any woman home who appears impaired - at all - is ok??
And - JWRed - you need a better class of friends (no insult to you meant).
Though - I believe the main point is that taking ANYONE home, whom you've just met is just so-1960's. I thought that kids, today, had learned a thing or 3 from our mistakes. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/15/2009 8:40:08 PM | I've decided not to read previous posts, someone is bound to tick me off, so I'm giving my input based on the OP's question/statement.
If she can walk, she can screw.... chances are if she's at the bar alone, she's shy and needs to get laid, and can't do what she did while sober.
I'd honestly like to beat the tar out of every woman who has ever screamed rape after a one nighter that picked up where closing time left off.... yes, the walk of shame/ride to your own car is humiliating the next day, but the night before was well worth it (most of the time).
Don't feel bad darlin, she propositioned you, you didn't knock her on the head with a club and drag her to your couch... she threw herself at you. If she felt like poo its her own damn fault for drinking whatever she shouldn't have been drinking (tequilla in my case)... I can guarantee you she knew better.....
and honestly, the fact that she seemed imbarassed is a good thing, means thats not a common occurance.... | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 12:13:18 AM | To OP:
I would never take a women who was drunk, stoned, or otherwise influenced by something that influences her mind to have sex with her... it strikes me as very wrong to do it; regardless of what they say I cannot trust that their judgment is 100%. If I am going to have sex with a woman I want to have with a sober woman who wants me for what I have to offer and not because she's chemically altered. The only time I might even consider it is if it was someone I was already in an established sexual relationship with and I usually wouldn't do it then either. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 9:29:36 AM | sylvir8605 is spot on and well said for being honest. There is too much pressure for guys to do this to do that while women are ok to do what ever they like.
There are guy's who take advantange of drunk women and that's wrong, but how many women and guys have had a one night stand after a few drinks.......loads. Why get too drunk when there is no one to look out for you and do you really have to get so pissed? | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 9:52:40 AM | this actually happened to me in college.... we were having a kegger on my dorm floor and this girl was totally wasted and getting amorous with me and wanted to go to my room.... Once we arrived at my room with her stumbling down the hall I realized she was not thinking totally clearly about her choices.... I let her into my room and went to the bathroom.... when I got back she was nekked on the bed waiting..... so I went up to her ear and said... "I dont think this is a good time for u now and I want u to sleep here in my bed alone... and if u still feel the same in the morning we will go from there" ... So I covered her up and slept on the floor all nite... really!!!! well sort of slept... couldnt get the idea out of my mind that a nekked willing girl was in my bed alone.... but I resisted...lol
The next morning she asked me "why didnt u just take me when i was there for u?" .... I said "What I want to share with u is soooo good I didnt want either one of us to miss one heart beat of it all"... OMG!!!! for the next 4 hours we shared a wonderful experience that was consensual and respectful and intense!!!! | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 12:22:20 PM | oh come on. She probably does that all the time. Being drunk, doing something reckless and naughty...then, in the cold morning light, with a brutal hangover, all she wants to do is get away from you. I doubt she did something she "regrets." It just isn't the same thrill once the alcohol wears off.
Personally, if I go to a bar and get drunk and pick up a guy, then I am responsible for my own behavior and to cry "rape" is nothing short of ridiculous. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? If I were you, I wouldn't worry so much about taking advantage of some poor drunk girl, I would worry about who that poor drunk girl ****ed the night before and what kind of diseases he might have. Remember, condoms are not 100% safe. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 3:28:11 PM | It may SOUND consensual but it is her prerogative to say "No" at ANY TIME before AND during sex. It is NOT unusual for women to get drunk, horny, go home with some stranger and then claim RAPE just to save their marriage. In University towns because of their extreme PC attitudes having sex with a drunk chick IS rape by definition. Liberal courts and liberal judges (many of them same sex advocates) will skewer a white male in court if that kind of accusation happens. You have no hope of "justice" or common sense (..."but she SAID "take me home and fu¢kme rigid.") being a factor. They will PROVE you are a misogynistic Neandrathal who took advantage of this poor girl who was OBVIOUSLY in no mental condition to assume responsibility for herself. You'll do 15 to 20 with a hatchet murderer for a roomie!!
It really doesn't matter if she sez "Take me home and fu¢k my brains out." - if she changes her mind and declares the act a rape then guess who get's fu¢ked in the end? Even IF you're not convicted it'll bankrupt you fighting the charges and you'll probably end up losing your job and half your family. The Charges will be in all the local papers. The dismissal / conditional discharge (if you're found not guilty) will be on pg 86 . It has all the potential to completely ruin your life. It might be fun for BOTH of you but booze does weird things to folk. Liquid BiPolarity fraught with all the dangers of having the person flip without any warning.
There was a rape CONVICTION discussed on Bill O'Reilly the other night. My understanding is there will be an appeal but this dude was boinking some babe. ABSOfu¢kingLUTELY consensual at the start but then she changed her mind and said "NO." According to the record it took him 5 to 6 SECONDS to cease and desist. According to the definition accepted by the moro .... ummm JURY as presented by the DA, during those 5 or 6 SECONDS before he withdrew IT WAS RAPE. A CONVICTION was registered. The idiotic thing is the LAW and JUSTICE sees little difference between a "rape" like this and one where some yabbo jumps some 16 yr old on her way home from school, rapes her for hours, carves his initials in her breasts and puts out his cigarettes on her clit. I used to be a cop. I saw the diff between a RAPE and a "change of mind" but the courts see them as pretty much the same!!!
I heard a story on a news show recently (Dateline or 60 Minutes, something like that) where a girl charged a guy with rape, and he was convicted by a jury. But there was no violence, and there was consent, and she never said no. In the trial she said she was crying inside and wanted to stop him so badly because she knew it was a mistake but allowed it to go on and now she was so emotionally distraught from the incident. And that convicted him. They were friends, and were apparently watching movies together when it happened. Some friend, huh? Sends her close friend to jail for 12 years for her fcuking inability to open her trap and shut her legs. Nice.
And yet so many women seem to think they don't have any power and that men are oppressing them. Do they just not look at the other side of the coin? I just don't understand.
if you don't want to take the risk of maybe being accused of rape.. then make sure your partner is reasonably sober (hard to tell sometimes, play on the safe side), has actually consented or get it in WRITING with a witness.
And this is ultimately what sex is coming to. A business agreement. Soon contracts will have to be drawn up, signed, and notarized before the act can begin just to make sure everything is cool and nobody pulls anything.
This is what we get for doing away with the fine art of personal accountability.
There is a reason you don't often see women posting things like... "So if I take home a drunk guy and sleep with him, is it rape?"
It's because there are guys looking for an easy lay, and you don't often find women with the same mentality, just trying to get a body to use/the most they can out of a situation.
You need to go to some different bars. There are plenty of women like that where I work. It's the Sex and the City mentality.
Today's Society relies way too much on diminished responsibility. It's everyone else's fault but our own because lets face it, we're all infallible.
Perfectly worded.
your 'opinion' of what 'should be', and even a consensus of "POF opinion" will not account for a fart in a hurricane in a court of law.
Which is all the more reason that those of us with common sense should push to have laws like this changed. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 3:53:42 PM | When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Ummm.... When she files charges against you?? Just a guess....
Here's the simple truth: Any woman, drunk, high, or otherwise, can say you raped them anytime they want to and you're still gonna be screwed... And not in the good way! Women know this. I've seen girls actually threaten guys with it before, just because one or the other was being an ass, when they had never even been physical at all. It's a sick thing, but believe it's a reality my friend... | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 4:21:26 PM | The experience of the OP about taking a woman home from a bar who is drunk, in both scenarios if she says that she doesn't want sex before or after then it is rape. I would have to agree with Dave's earlier post. Responsibility of making a good consenual decision when it comes to sex is between the man and the woman. I personally would not have sex with a drunk woman at all because when a woman is drunk she is not in her right mind at all, in either case you can still be convicted of rape if she does the following 4 things listed below:
1. Passes out on the bed when you have sex with her
2. Says no before and after that she doesn't want to have sex with you
3. Feelings of embarassment or shame on the act afterwards.
4. Violent or forceful behavior is done on the woman
I would never take a drunk woman home under any circumstances because morally it would feel like I would be taking advantage of a woman who doesn't have all of her faculties clear when she is not sober. I also think that sex when a woman is sober is a lot better, it is safer, and you'll both wake up in the morning with a good conscience. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/16/2009 7:52:49 PM | And this is ultimately what sex is coming to. A business agreement. Soon contracts will have to be drawn up, signed, and notarized before the act can begin just to make sure everything is cool and nobody pulls anything.
This is what we get for doing away with the fine art of personal accountability. So true. And by the way, from a legal standpoint, any contract, verbal or written, made sober or drunk that was made regarding having sex with someone, wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on. Total waste of time.
This thread just confirms what I have always believed. Sex with a stranger, drunk or sober - BAD IDEA. Seriously, I just don't understand how desparate you have to be to get laid to take the any number of risks involved in that scenario. And if you are that desparate to get laid, then there are professionals who can help you out with that, for a fee....
Flirt, dance, get a bit touchy feely if you want to. But then, get their phone number, go home, get sober, get some perspective and at least go on a couple of dates before jumping in the sack. Sure, it won't elimate the risk of something going wrong, but it is going to be substantially less risky than the drunken stranger scenario.
To me, the 'complete' stranger factor is actually more significant and the higher risk factor than the 'drunk' part. I have had plenty of sex when he and/or I were 'under the influence' (never when extremely drunk though; couldn't think of anything worse when I am really drunk) and it's never been an issue because I knew the guy and he knew me. And he absolutely knew me well enough to know whether or not I was capable of consent.
If it's a complete stranger you have zero knowledge of their history, what their 'signals' might be as to what is ok for them and what isn't and no basis of comparison as to how impaired they actually are. And as others have pointed out, that in itself is by no means a guarantee that there won't be a bad outcome if you have sex with them when they're drunk in any case.
If you sleep with a stranger you are playing Russian Roulette. So you just better be prepared for that bullet. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/17/2009 3:42:45 PM | It is legally rape if a man has sex with a woman who cannot give her consent.
Lots of women have sex when they are drunk. I know I have.
It depends on if she is incoherent and can walk and talk or not.
If she can walk, talk and sit up then it's not rape unless you force her somehow or she says "no" and you do it anyway.
If at any time in any way the woman says no or she does not want to do it, then stop immediatly all physical contact. To continue is rape. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/17/2009 4:04:29 PM | | I would be scared more of how fast she wanted you to take her home and do her. Anyone who will drop their clothes after 5 minutes is a very scarey person to make out with. I understand that you both may be single, but look at it like this; if she was willing to sleep with you that quick then how many guys before you shared the same bed with her. It sounds like her goal was to get tipsy and get laid so I wouldnt worry about her yelling rape. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/17/2009 8:29:59 PM | | I wouldnt do it an dI am gonna tell you why. In every criminal case, you gotta have evidence, except a rape case- all it takes is testimony. Think about if you were on the jury...Why would a woman lie? Forget CSI and DNA, they dont need it- you are prolly gonna be labeled a sex offender and have your pic posted online for all to see ( and everyone is gonna think you are out to get their kids) The fact that you ask this question leads me to believe you prolly need to be on the sex offender registry. Srsly, you prolly need some counseling, you are looking for permission to act out by posting that question. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/17/2009 8:33:04 PM | | Unless you live in an uber liberal state and have a super attorney ( check attorney arates for a-1 felonies) they are not gonna care if she was drunk, drugged ect... I mean, lawyers get to pick the jury. Its gonna be the mans fault- you are sticking her, not the other way around. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/18/2009 6:37:55 AM | It depends on if she is incoherent and can walk and talk or not.
If she can walk, talk and sit up then it's not rape unless you force her somehow or she says "no" and you do it anyway. That's a nice theory, but just too simplistic and way too black and white. Real life situations are almost always far more complex and far more ambiguous than that. Anyone who relies on a defence that she could "walk, talk and sit up" and that they didn't "force" her somehow or that she didn't say no is playing with fire. There are many many people (predominantly men) who have relied on such things and have found themselves convicted sex offenders.
Whether or not a person was capable of informed consent (which is one element that would have to be proved) does not come down to whether or not they could "walk, talk and sit up"; not by a long shot. And whether or not someone is deemed to have forced a sexual act on someone is also a very complex issue. And even if she never said "no" (which by the way you will never be able to prove unless the act occurred in front of credible witnesses), it still may be possible to prove informed consent was not present.
Botton line - sex with a stranger who you know is intoxicated (irrespective of your personal view of how "coherent" they are - VERY BAD IDEA. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/18/2009 4:19:22 PM | If it's against the law to have sex with a drunk girl, so I should be locked up when I have sex with my girlfriend of the last year everytime we go out and we end up having sex at the end of the night...must be against the law.
Fact is, any guy who sleeps with a girl for the first time when she is completely tanked is just an idiot, an ass and very selfish. can she walk? can she form sentences? can she stand on her own? her level of intoxication does create a line in which you should respect that her decisions may not be what she really wanted....but if she wants it, you want it, and you guys can be careful, you shouldn't have feelings of remorse the next morning. however, I would recommend no drunk sex, the only women I have ever slept with when she was at all intoxicated is the mother of my child....and we have been together quite awhile. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/18/2009 8:49:59 PM | if she said take me home and f++k me then
its not rape and you should not feel guilty
its rape if she passes out,
you put somthing in her drink,
or at anytime she changes her mind!
it does not sound like you should feel bad!!!
or ok if your sober and she is completely wasted
there should be some guilt there
and the next morning she will think your a freak!!!! | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/18/2009 9:09:29 PM |
Having sex with a girl while she is drunk is considered rape.
Can't remember where I read it at. But according to the law, it is rape.
Maybe after a certain POINT of being drunk, but if this was true then having a couple beers would be considered drunk and a lot of guys would be waist deep in you know what.
Besides, it's hard to prove it was rape anyways even if this was true (which I doubt). You can claim rape all you want but if you had drunk sex chances are the girl wasn't beaten or hit or held down. There isn't going to be any proof that the guy held her against her will and he can just claim there was consent.
The line would be smudged on this type of case in so many ways it just can't possibly be true that "drunk girl = rape" | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/18/2009 9:20:06 PM | In TX it's illegal to have even 1 drink of alcohol and have sex. And yes, I know oh so many people get drunk because they can't seem to get it any other way. But that's the law. You don't have to be beaten or hit to be raped.
Maybe after a certain POINT of being drunk, but if this was true then having a couple beers would be considered drunk and a lot of guys would be waist deep in you know what.
Besides, it's hard to prove it was rape anyways even if this was true (which I doubt). You can claim rape all you want but if you had drunk sex chances are the girl wasn't beaten or hit or held down. There isn't going to be any proof that the guy held her against her will and he can just claim there was consent.
The line would be smudged on this type of case in so many ways it just can't possibly be true that "drunk girl = rape"
this kind of post makes me wonder how many women he's had to get drunk to get laid. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/18/2009 10:25:45 PM | I'm 19.
Yeah I totally go to bars and get girls drunk and have sex with them.
All
The
Time
My point was it's hard to prove rape and that there wasn't consent in that situation.
Just because I know a couple of things about a sitatution (though I won't claim to flawlessly know everything) doesn't mean I went out and tested it. | |
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