| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:48:01 AM | If you don't feel comfortable there is a reason, so don't do it! She definitely had regrets because she was sober. Happens all the time - people make decisions under the influence.
If one is going to consume alcohol, then be weary of how much as one knows what alcohols does to the hormones.................... | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:13:08 AM | It makes me sick that intoxication can be used to excuse behaviour in the courts. I was in court a few months back for not reporting a minor fender bender (I had no damage so didn't think I needed to report...apparently I did and it cost me $268 for some dumbass' poor driving!) and this guy was charged with assault in a bar fight, but had the charged reduced to causing a disturbance because the judge said he wasn't in a proper frame of mind. Okay, so if I get liquored up and shoot someone will I be excused too?!
I'll reframe this whole drunken date rape faux pas for a second here. I was at a club in Winnipeg for a friend's going away party. There have been a string of bar shootings in Winnipeg in the past few years. At that time there'd been three within two weeks so everyone was a little edgy and there was heavy police presence in the bar. So my friend and I are standing in line to the washroom and he's flirting with this girl he met earlier in the evening. Suddenly her friend comes down, who's been standing with us most of the night, and gets in my friend's face about leaving her alone. She is clearly there on her own recognizance. She WANTS to be talking to my friend, but her friend is upset by this. So they mix words and my friend is a little**** when he drinks, SHOCKER, and the other guy threatens to end him. Being the bigger guy and the more sober one of the bunch I stepped in front of this guy and told him to go take a walk and cool off. He smiles and forms his hand into a gun and pretends to shoot me. Says "wait here, and I'll be back in a minute. I've got something for both of you. Make your peace with God azzhole." After reporting this punk to the police and them sloughing it off because he hasn't actually DONE anytihng and there are threats tossed around a drunken watering hole all night long, I hunt this kid down and nearly put him through a slate pool table. I figure I'm either going to stand around and let him come back and shoot the two of us, or I'm going to get proactive. I have about 80 pounds on this kid. I bent him over the table and got in his face about me being the last guy in the room he wants to be slinging mud with. I can be intimidating, but I'm not an instigator. I used my size and aggression though to strike some fear in this kid. But his friends are pulling on me to let him go and leave him be and that he gets this way when he's drunk and he means no harm. He's harmless. My point here. I tore a strip off of all of his friends, saying maybe they should help him kennel his bloody drinking before he gets himself killed in one of these barroom scuffles. If the kid had any beans and decided he was going to push back with me I would have mopped the floor with his insides.
The point of this story is that his friends tried to excuse his behaviour based on the fact that he only gets that way when he drinks. Well, easy solution here. Maybe he shouldn't drink! If women are going home with men and then regretting it in the morning perhaps they shouldn't be drinking in the first place, at least not to excess! | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:46:46 AM |
The point of this story is that his friends tried to excuse his behaviour based on the fact that he only gets that way when he drinks. Well, easy solution here. Maybe he shouldn't drink! If women are going home with men and then regretting it in the morning perhaps they shouldn't be drinking in the first place, at least not to excess!
I absolutely agree with Deuce98. Women going home with men, men going home with women, people running their mouths when they shouldn't be, committing crimes when intoxicated...if people can't handle the alcohol they are drinking, they shouldn't be drinking it. If they can not do that, now that is another situation entirely. But many people drink to excess and then blame their reckless actions on others, and this seems to happen often with the types of situations being discussed. Too many people make the excuse, "Well, he only gets that way when he (or she) drinks..." It is possible to go out and drink without getting so plastered you make bad judgement calls. | |
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JWRed
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Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 30 | |
| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:49:15 AM | I am the original poster.
Based on many people's opinions in this thread, it looks like my instincts to not do something like this were right. As someone pointed out, taking a drunk girl home is rolling the dice with my life. I have to be 100% sure ( I am not sure how I could be that certain) that the girl will not not have regrets the next morning. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:53:25 AM | | A person who is under the influence of alchohol cannot legally give consent. She might not have been so drunk she was falling down; but seriously if you had a decent bone in your body you would have told her that if she still wanted to sleep with you when she was sober you'd be interested; and then either walked her back to her friends or offered to call a cab for her. You knew she was drunk. And you were happy to take advantage of that. Is that really the kind of person you want to be??? | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:21:25 PM |
A person who is under the influence of alchohol cannot legally give consent. She might not have been so drunk she was falling down; but seriously if you had a decent bone in your body you would have told her that if she still wanted to sleep with you when she was sober you'd be interested; and then either walked her back to her friends or offered to call a cab for her. You knew she was drunk. And you were happy to take advantage of that. Is that really the kind of person you want to be???
Entitled to your opinion of course, but I would like to pose a question then. By this logic, if the situation were reversed, should the woman be walking the drunk guy back to his friends, or offering to call him a cab? Is she taking advantage of him if she doesn't? By that logic used above, yes, she would be, and apparently should be asked as well then, "Is that really the kind of person you want to be???" And apparently, by this logic used, we can also make assumptions and judgements on the character of another without any grounds for making that judgement. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:26:12 PM |
A person who is under the influence of alcohol cannot legally give consent. She might not have been so drunk she was falling down
Updating my dating list.... "Buy a breathalyser. Make sure you measure alcohol content and record that on video tape, so that you have a documented piece of evidence if she was drunk or not". | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:31:31 PM | | It goes both ways. Let's try something else here. You are absolutely smashed. Your decision-making skills are impaired. Your judgment is impaired. You are allergic to peanuts. Someone offers you a peanut butter sandwich. Do you laugh and hoover the thing? No. You may joke about it and laugh and say how you'd LOVE to eat it, but you refrain. Another. You are standing at the bar and there's a jar of pickled eggs in front of you. Sober, they repulse you. Your friend says you should both eat one. Do you jump on that egg? Likely not. The only thing liquor does is remove some inhibitions. You are more likely to jump into bed when intoxicated. But I think if you were drunk and went home with someone you just met the chances are that if you met them on the street and decided to go for coffee and found that the feelings were electric you'd end up someplace dinking the guy that very day. Alcohol here is an excuse. People crash their cars all the time and say they were on the cell phone and didn't see the other car. No. They are just bad drivers and coupled with the cell phone caused a disaster. I can talk on the cell phone, eat a cheeseburger, and change the radio station while driving in traffic and I'm in control of the road. Why? Because I'm an alert driver. By the way I did not just condone talking on the phone or painting one's nails while driving! | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:51:32 PM | I had an experience not directly relevant to the subject of the thread, but still somewhat relevant.
During my divorce, I had a heated argument with my ex-wife which got too physical. I did not try to hurt her, or anything, although she must've interpreted it that way. She called police on me, and ended up filing the restraining order so that I could not go back to our house.
Later on, I asked her why she did that. She must've calmed down by the time she got to the police station and she must've known by then that I was not trying to hurt her. And she said something very interesting - she said it was almost like a process that police went through. It wasn't like she was asked "What happened? Do you want to file this? Do you want to do that?". It was more or less assumed that she wanted to do all of that. The process was "Do this, next do that, now file this". She had to make a conscious decision not to file domestic violence report, and not to file restraining order; as opposed to making a conscious decision to do those things.
Rape and physical abuse are such horrible crimes against women that I can certainly see why the process would be set up to make them as easy as possible for the victim to pursue. But, in the process, we get too far away from it being justice. You make it so easy for someone to cry "I've been raped/abused" and you end up with the process itself being abusive - to those who didn't do anything wrong. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:55:45 PM |
Updating my dating list.... "Buy a breathalyser. Make sure you measure alcohol content and record that on video tape, so that you have a documented piece of evidence if she was drunk or not".
 Love it, Yevgeny. Make sure you put that one on the to-do list.
Alcohol here is an excuse. People crash their cars all the time and say they were on the cell phone and didn't see the other car. No. They are just bad drivers and coupled with the cell phone caused a disaster.
Exactly. This sort of rationale can be applied to all sorts of situations because it is just that: rationale. Alcohol is used as an excuse for all kinds of behaviours, and many other things are used as excuses as well.
The other issue is the attitude towards these situations, such as in the post that questioned whether the OP was a "decent" person. It seems that views are unfairly skewed towards putting males in a position of responsibility for females when they are under the influence, which is another topic entirely and all sorts of factors come into play. The issue is that when a woman of legal age has consensual sex while under the influence but still coherent, and regrets it the next day, people are quick to jump to "he took advantage". When situations are reversed, it is nothing of the sort. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 1:03:46 PM | | NO it's not rape. If she said NO!!!!!!!! that's a good sign it is. and if she's passed out of course too. But this is why it's not a good idea to dake a drunk person home from a bar and have sex. The next morning isn't so pleasant :) If you don't feel comfortable doing it that's good and just don't do it. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 1:19:40 PM |
Rape and physical abuse are such horrible crimes against women that I can certainly see why the process would be set up to make them as easy as possible for the victim to pursue. But, in the process, we get too far away from it being justice. You make it so easy for someone to cry "I've been raped/abused" and you end up with the process itself being abusive - to those who didn't do anything wrong.
I've been thinking about this as well, Yevgeny, I'm glad you brought this side of the topic up.
When the laws are set up to make it as easy as possible to pursue, the mindset also eventually changes as well. There are far too many women who are abused. However, there are also people who claim abuse when none takes place out of malice or other reasons, or exaggerate heated arguments into an abusive relationship. The same exists for rape. Accusations are brought with no ground out of malicious motives, and situations occur where accusations are brought after consensual sex while under the influence. When accusations are brought out of mindset or malice, it minimizes the offenses of rape and abuse that do occur. So the question becomes, where is the middle ground? How can punishable offenses of rape and abuse be punished, and how can innocent people be protected from accusations? It does get too far away from being justice. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 1:47:16 PM | | A fair bit has been mentioned about the character of people who have one-night stands or more particularly those who would take a girl/guy home from a bar when they've been drinking. We assume people in professional careers to be upstanding citizens, yet when you think of the whole hotel lounge scene from a movie or television show, where a man and a woman lock eyes and end up chatting away through a half a dozen martinis and then end up naked on the sixth floor bumping uglies. But we look up to professionals as they are respectable folk, no? The notion that people who take drunk people from the bar to bed are despicable people does not align with those same people's views of the natural hierarchy of our Western society. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 2:57:45 PM | Just like having sex with anyone, there are risks and consequences. A girl that is willing to sleep with someone just because she has been drinking (and knows shes drunk) is just as flawed in character guy willing to **** some wasted girl from the club (and knows he's lit) . However, our society is covered in ads ads and influences to do so (we're talking about the marketing of lust) . Maybe its the excitement factor, or the knowledge that your making a bad decision that makes it more desirable to some; but sex with a drunk girl is an inherently more risky activity than sex with a partner you know is clean and consensual for medical and legal reasons. I view girls and guys who have alcohol issues in their sex lives as probably having other control issues . For the vast majority of people, having a few drinks with friends (with or without sex ) can be a fun time without any risks. However, we have laws in place to essentially protect a few people from themselves to make it a better place for all of us. Colleges have strict policies because STDs rates can be significant. Many colleges are now offering free treatment options and testing just because they don't want to be known as the school where everyone has AIDs. Alot of the old-time school of thought relied on the idea that the guy made all the decisions. In fact both parties should be held responsible for the welfare of their partner.
My view is practice what you preach. Weigh the risks and rewards. Don't drink hard...drink fun. I'm not judging anyone who wants to have consensual sex with another dunk from the bar, I'm just reiterating that it's probably a bad idea.  j | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:40:37 PM | live523: you are a real tool!!! What a jackass you are!!!
Maybe thats what you do when you troll home a drunk chick, but if you were a decent person you'd know that if a girl can't stand up or speak coherently....you have no business sleeping with her.
I know not all men are like this, just like there are women who DON'T get drunk and wander home with just any Tom,****or Rick from the bar!
Society has really sunken to an all time low when something like this is even in question. I believe in what my mother told me when I was a kid: "Don't pick it up, if you don't know where its' been!" | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:05:28 PM | OP
Rape - I don't know - I'm not a lawyer - BUT - I do teach ethics and I believe this is morally highly questionable - however, since you described her as drunk and drunk implies that she is unable to consent - this would have to be suspect
Even more importantly - what type of man do you want to be -
Cf | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:21:03 PM | | It doesn't look like many of the ladies have weighed in with an answer yet but let me ask you something. Let's suppose I am a car salesman and you come to my dealership drunk. I sell you a car that you liked but really did not want to buy or maybe could not afford to buy. How do you feel? Are you going to sue me? Do you think I would be liable in a court of law if it could be proven that you were drunk and I took advantage of you? | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:28:26 PM | Its been considered rape since I can remember. Why would anyone even want to *uck a girl who's clearly been drinking too much?
It amazes me how often this happens. I never go to the clubs alone, and when I'm out with the girls I see quite a few guys kissing and feeling up a passed out girl. I wouldn't even chance it. Especially of rape could be a ending result. Don't even do it, try chatting up a sober one and getting her number. | |
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