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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:07:45 PM | For a woman to choose to go to a bar, choose to get drunk, choose to go home with a guy, choose to have sex, regret it the next morning, is, in my opinion, not rape by the man. Just as, for a man to choose to go to a bar, choose to get drunk, choose to go home with a woman, choose to have sex, regret it the next morning, is, in my opinion, not rape by the woman.
You have a choice: Either a female over 21 is unable to make adult choices, can't take responsibility for their choices, and should be labeled and treated as a child; or according to the feminist movement, women are equally capable of making adult choices as men, are equally capable of taking responsibility for their choices as men, and should be treated as equal to men.
Women and men should both take equal responsibility for decisions and being adults. Can't have it both ways. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:21:22 PM |
Well I don't know if it's considered rape but morally it's questionable.
If you were really drunk and a GUY took you home and had sex with you, what you would call it?
This question was posed immediately following my first post in this thread. I'm going to run with that is was being addressed to me or one of the other females who had posted an unpopular female view at that point, rather than in the case of it being addressed to the OP, which I highly doubt.
In a hypothetical situation, if I were drunk and a guy took me home and we had consensual sex, what would I call it? I would call it using bad judgement, but never taking advantage.
If I were intoxicated to the point where I was stumbling and incoherent, as some of the posters in this thread have assumed the situation of the OP to be, the situation becomes more grey. However, the OP of this thread concerns two adults, under the influence but by all available information coherent and standing, certainly able to engage in sex.
live523: you are a real tool!!! What a jackass you are!!!
Maybe thats what you do when you troll home a drunk chick, but if you were a decent person you'd know that if a girl can't stand up or speak coherently....you have no business sleeping with her.
It appears that people have sufficient morality to be able to make judgements like these with absolutely no information of the sort. What grounds or qualifications do you have to make judgements and assumptions on his character because he posed a valid query out of concern for this very issue?
When adults drink, they have a responsibility as adults to monitor their alcohol consumption according to what they can handle. This applies to both men and women. An adult is responsible for their own decisions and their judgement.
I would be very interested to hear if any of these posters have ever had sex when they had been drinking. And my query from msg 33 still stands on the situation in reverse. | |
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| consent is the key
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:42:21 PM | The video taping the entire act is a great idea!!!
As long as you don't show other people it is legal. It is legal to show it in a few places, but keeping evidence for yourself is a good idea and really helps your case, even if it is found during a search.
It will hang you if she is obviously drunk, because someone can not give consent when drunk. You are not required to hear/understand no, you are required to have consent.
It is a horrid thing that buyer's remorse is held equal to rape by some women, but it does happen, when you pick up a woman at a bar you have no idea how psycho she might be. She could be faking it to rob you, or let her boyfriend have his way with you.
Personally, I think people are responsible for their actions, drunk, high, sober, angry, sad or giddy. (So long as the drunk or high came from their actions, drugging someone, threatening someone or tipping the bartender to make her drink stronger is shakey ground.)
If you drank so much alone that you depended on some nice( or sleazy) person to take you home, you don't deserve what happened to you, but you sure are tempting fate. So, if you bang a drunk girl and don't catch anything, good for you.
Side note: If you take her home drunk from the bar, have you even ASKED if she's got a forrest of STDs? I'd worry anyone who gets drunk enough to let a stranger carry them home has done this before. | |
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| consent is the key
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:50:31 PM |
It is a horrid thing that buyer's remorse is held equal to rape by some women, but it does happen
Well said. This is exactly what happens in situations like the OP, different degrees occur, yes, but I absolutely agree with this post. It is a very lax attitude women have when they equate regret with rape or being taken advantage of, and, just for one, minimizes actual occurences of crimes. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:17:14 PM | I've sold a lot of things requiring contracts and in each business we are told the contracts are not binding or even illegal if the person is intoxicated, on illegal drugs or mentally ill or challenged. It is so tempting to sell a drunk something and then keep your fingers crossed they still want it when they sober up.
I think you are entering into a "verbal contract" with a drunk girl which makes her mentally incapacitated thus in the eyes of a court of law not binding and illegal....and you become "the salesman", desperate for a sale and doing anything you can for it, even taking advantage of an intoxicated girl.
Hmmmmm....a little food for thought. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:22:22 PM | | I took a girl home, at the bar she said " take me to your house and I want to **** the shit out of you" this chick was hot but when we got to my house she was so ****ed up I just put her on the couch with a blanket. Then went to sleep I guess my roommate came home about a hour latter and she ****ed the shit out of him. He was a non agressive type respectful to women. Then next day she try to claim he took advantage of her and was pissed off. Shit I know him he never got any and the way he would is if she came onto him. SO I think she raped him. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:32:59 PM | The golden rule for me is if we both walk into a situation where we agree we're going to get lubricated, and then **** the shit outa each other at the end of the night. It's all good. And believe me there will be pings all night long to confirm we're still on track. ;)
If I meet a strange woman at a bar/club and she's obviously toasted - I'll just get her number and talk to her the next day.
If it's someone I've hung out with before and there's been flirting, and we start sober and end up with the frame of mind that we're going home together - that's on a case by case.
And yes, women take advantage of drunk/passed out men as well. I know one or two that are still paying child support for it. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:08:33 PM | [And yes, women take advantage of drunk/passed out men as well.]
Most men can't perform properly when they are drunk and definitely can't perform when they are passed out...they aren't wired that way. But I could be wrong...I am sure I'll hear about it on this forum from the guys that are wired that way.... | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:38:10 PM | I say it isnt rape..........the reason why i say that, is because 10-1, this is her pattern......if she has done it this time, she probably done it a whack of times before.......
Thats what gets me about some women..........they play the innocent role......when they arent..........no different then asking a chick if she was ever a prostitute......she says no, but yet she was at the bar the night before.......getting free drinks from some guy, and she ends up going home with him........................OMG.......
If it did go to trial.........people are going to remember her doing it before......being drunk, and leaving with some guy................I say your safe. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:47:31 PM | | For those saying that a drunk girl cannot give consent, here's a question for you-- if this same drunk girl got in a car and drove, then wrecked into somebody and killed them, would she get off the hook for free since she was drunk and unable to give consent to drive? HELL NO. A person is responsible for his own actions no matter how drunk he is, because it was he who made the decision to drink in the first place. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:47:39 AM | | the whole " I was drunk so its rape" is a crock! If her eing drunk, is an excuse to claim she wasnt responsible, then the same would go for the guy, if he was drunk right? So, if hes drunk, but still held accountable for his actions, she should be too! Lets face it, they had sex, both of them! It wasnt a one way street! | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 4:17:33 AM | At common law, only men can rape. And a man commits the crime of rape when he has "carnal knowledge of a woman not his wife without her consent." In ordinary language, "carnal knowledge" means intercourse, and courts define that as any vaginal penetration, no matter how slight. Some states have modified the rule to make it possible for a man to rape his wife, e.g.
And females younger than a certain age--usually 18, younger in some states--can't legally consent to intercourse. The man who has intercourse with an underage female therefore is automatically committing rape, and it's usually no defense that he believed she was of legal age. This is "statutory" rape.
The fact a woman is VOLUNTARILY intoxicated when she has intercourse with a man doesn't, by itself, make her unable to consent to it. And she might. But she might also verbally refuse intercourse, and the man would be committing rape if he had it with her anyway. Also, a woman so drunk she was barely conscious--even if she got that way voluntarily--could not *knowingly* consent to intercourse (or to anything else.) A man who had intercourse with her while she was in that condition would therefore be committing rape.
A woman could also be INVOLUNTARILY intoxicated--say by a man who puts rohypnol or some similar drug in her drink without her knowledge. Even is she does not resist intercourse with the man, under the law she cannot knowingly consent to it. He therefore is committing rape. (Think of a son who changes his rich old father's medication knowing it will make him mentally confused, and then lies to him about some terrible thing the only other heir has done to get the father to cut him out of his will. Same principle--even though the father goes along with his son and changes the will, he never *knowingly* consented.) | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:03:32 AM | I'm just going to say this.
I've been held responsible for everything I've ever done while intoxicated. Many of these things I don't even remember. Damn near all of them I regret. And even though I didn't really feel like "I" had done them but rather someone or something else possessing my body had done them through me, it was still ME that had to pay for it.
So I have no sympathy for these women. They should be held to the same standard. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:38:00 AM | Danieljarvis,
Looks have NOTHING to do with a guy's ability to pick up women in the bar. It's what comes out of your mouth and emanates from your body after that initial hello that will decide whether or not you have it. With girls it's different. A pretty girl with no personality could easily get laid regardless of where she is. No personality required, because we men have proven time and time again that most of us are carnal beings and will jump on most chances to have sex if we are attracted to that person. Hell, I know guys that'd say yes to just about anyone! Yikes is all I've got. Keep your chin up, and maybe work on your game a bit. Build your confidence and your self-esteem.
Oceangrlnla1,
You talk about selling something (the idea of sex) to a drunk girl, but the OP's situation involved a girl telling him she wanted to take him home and screw him. So she's doing the selling. HE is consenting if he goes home with her. This is the part that bugs me. If we flip the tables here I can see how this can be interpreted in a thousand different ways. I have a friend who has a REALLY hard time saying a firm no. She's cute but she's kind of shy, and when a guy comes on to her he can literally have his way with her and she'll just leave indirect cues as to her disapproval but never be firm. This one time we had a hot tub party and she wasn't feeling good so she went to lay down in the basement. One of my friends disappeared into the house to mix a drink a few minutes later and didn't return. Knowing she was in the house alone, and knowing his track record I ventured into the house only to hear her squirming in the basement saying "this isn't a good idea, I don't think we should do this". I listened for just a few seconds to make sure I wasn't busting up something that was consensual but it was clear she wasn't interested so I yelled down at him to get upstairs. Had I not come in she would have just let him carry on. He was so drunk and he's a salesman. He would have just kept selling her on the idea until it was too late. That in my eyes is rape. It's only rape when someone is violated either physically or emotionally, in regards to sex. If a girl decides in her mind that it was a bad idea but says nothing then that is her burden to bear not the guy's. She should have spoken up. We aren't mind readers. But alot of these times I don't think the woman is all too involved or present and the guy should pick up on this. If my girlfriend is feeling discomfort from sex I pick up on it fairly quickly and will stop to ask if she's okay and if she wants to stop. But then again many people are selfish lovers and will just hammer away and get theirs. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 8:12:34 AM | ^^^^Deuce makes some very good points yet again.
We can, of course, add all sort of extenuating circumstances to the hypothetical situation under discussion, or the OP. We can suppose that it's rape if she had been drugged with Rohypnol or GHB. We can suppose she's so intoxicated she can't stand, speak, or give consent to sex. We can suppose that she says "NO" in the middle of sexual intercourse, and then we can suppose that the man takes 4-5 seconds to withdraw and then therefore is commiting rape (apparently real case, but this is not a case by case basis, and I hope most guys have better reaction times than to take 4-5 seconds to withdraw after "NO" is screamed in their face). We can suppose all sorts of things, and many of the things we can suppose are considered rape.
The concept of consensual sex while under the influence becomes a very grey area when all these factors are brought into consideration. Rape and sexual assault are very serious crimes, and the sorts of assumptions that are being made need to be considered more closely in order to refrain from minimizing chargeable offenses and the victims of these. Presuming all sorts of factors in the OPs or hypothetical situation is not going to bring the discussion anywhere. Yes, some of these cirumstances being presumed would be considered rape or sexual assault, or taking advantage. But presuming every drunken sexual encounter a case of "taking advantage" or worse is not bringing the discussion to any point beyond that which we already know.
Parameters for the OPs situation are of two consenting adults, of legal age, under the influence. Now, in those situations, he is asking if or when it is rape. He didn't ask if he drugged her drink, or if she was absolutely wasted (actually, clarified he wouldn't have taken her home then, in fact), or if she screamed "NO" in his face while he was penetrating her (in which case he would have taken 4-5 seconds to withdraw and therefore been raping her, of course), or ask for any judgements on his morality or character. He asked, now let's say it again, if two consenting adults of legal age who are under the influence go home together, if or when it is considered rape. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 9:14:48 AM | | ^^^Consent doesn't have to be verbal. Legally if she physically welcomes the advances it's considered consent. So she can be thinking in her head "dear lord please no" but not saying no or pushing him away and just going along with it. And then at a point when she decides she can no longer just let the sex happen anymore, even though he's been inside her for some time, she speaks up and says no. At that point if he doesn't stop immediately or if he tries to talk her out of it it's sexual assault. At the very least it's sexual harassment if he tries to sell her on the idea. | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:11:19 AM | When you are drunk, you'll do a LOT of things that you wouldn't do sober, including straight men who get drunk and end up having sex with other men. If you don't consider it rape for a drunk woman to have sex with a man, then you won't consider it rape when 6 guys have sex with you when you are drunk.
Why cannot men get a woman into bed when she is sober? | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:39:36 AM | | i would never do it.... i think that even if she wants to, she is not in her right mind and i think it would be better to protect her than f her... besides how would that be enjoyable... even a toothless dog can look good in a dimly lit bar when ur drunk!!! respect women as u would want others to respect your sister if she were out there... | |
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| When is taking a drunk girl home from a bar and having sex considered rape?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:45:22 AM | In most states she can file rape charges against you at any time for two years.
If you didn't use protection, she could be pregnant and hold you up for child support for the next 18 years.
If you didn't use protection, she could have passed on to you the STD the last idiot gave her.
You could still be royally scr*wed over this.
If it ever happens again (presumably, with another woman), call her a cab. She may later recall that you didn't take advantage, and get the (probably mistaken) idea that you're a decent guy. | |
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