| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:04:05 PM | True TBLZ. I do know that such is how it often happens. Plead guilty; get the recommended 18 months; and be out in 6, with your record expunged at the age of 18 vs. get tried as an accessory or co-conspirator and face the prospect of a fifteen-year sentence. It's really impossible to say what the factors were that led to his plea, but I think it is worth noting -- to Textodd11 @ msg 34 -- that the prosecutors office wields and incredible amount of power over us and it is (at least) conceivable that, under certain circumstances, one could be induced to plead guilty to something that he never did to avoid a more grave penal risk.
Moreover, I don't know that he could have helped accelerate his friend's egress because it appears as though he was some distance physically removed from the scene of the crime; not that cutting the time down to one second would make a difference, if I understand the position of some of the posters thus far.
By the way TBLZ ... e-GAD, you're hot!  ; but I digress, LOL. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:29:54 PM | | I haven't read thru the whole forum but when she says no, stop ,or don't men we must obey. Just to be safe and make sure shes all right . It might be good to us but she could be dry or the position is not right. You know that shit that makes us mad. Besides if your a real stud she'll make it up to you. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:41:04 AM | @ Cowboy:
Point in fact, show me that woman, a woman who has been down that road and holds her head high and will look anyone square in the eye and owns her history, she's the kind that give me whiplash ;-).
I tried to message you privately but your settings won't allow me to email you.
@ FunnyGirl:
Ya, sure, it's YOUR body and YOUR choice to share. On the flip side, YIKES it is entirely possible to be way too prepared for an assault, and to take sex way too seriously.
@ laughinglibra
Unless you have been the victim of a rape, you will never be able to understand or comprehend what your behaviour would be afterward.
Since that was directed at me, suffice to say it's a BIG MISTAKE to make assumptions about other people. Thanks for the input, anyway. I repeat, offering a lift and your phone number isn't consistent behavior with someone who was just violated, assaulted, raped. What is it with all of you who think women are too stupid or childlike to not buddy up with someone who just raped you? SHEESH
@ Lixiette:
To state it plainly, it is rape if refusal from one party is expressed before, during, or even after the act.
??????????????
WTF???????????
NICE - so you have sex, decide after you didn't really want to, and another life ruined for raping you. Such a logical post other than this, WOW WOW WOW. I'm surprised men have sex at ALL.
@ Pers14:
In my opinion, stop means stop...now. Not five minutes from now, not five seconds from now.
PLEASE. Remember that the next time a cop pulls up behind you flashing his lights. He DID stop, in seconds. Still got convicted of rape. SHEESH
@ BelieveTheHype:
According to what I've seen, the guy pulled out in 5 seconds, which is how long I think it would take to process that she said no, ensure that you're withdrawing without leaving anything in (like a condom), and take it all in.
BIG KISS. Wow someone with logic speaking common sense.
@ Unlike Dorothy:
I think what probably happened is that the girl went in the car with the boys and the boys raped her! I greatly doubt she said yes, then no, and that boy # 2 didn't penetrate her yet was sentenced to 15 years in jail! Something doesn't sound right with that!
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG
OMFG
THE GIRL SAID she was up for this.
O M F G
No wonder we have women being convinced they were raped.
@ Vyper:
Ya I realize it was 2 consecutive dudes and not a 3way, why I qualified it with "what basically amounts to a 3way" - the point was that this was chick chose to have sex with 2 dudes and it's not like what I think the word "rape" was meant to cover - a man forcing himself on an unwilling woman...I still think she seemed very much to be the one with the power here from beginning to end, one that wanted to engage in some "taboo" stuff, and someone that men need to be warned about....we all hear about the men that girls need to be careful of. What about the women men need to fear? Ones that will offer their bodies then as someone said, with one word after the fact, destroy peoples' lives? This girl sounds to me like a predator and I can't believe the court systems went to the extent they did. One day things will change - the nonsense PC trends like this always do. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 4:21:25 AM | Since that was directed at me,
No, not directed only at you. You were not the only one making assumptions that they know how a victim behaves post-trauma.
I repeat, offering a lift and your phone number isn't consistent behavior with someone who was just violated, assaulted, raped.
No, it is not consistent, and what I said was that each individual reacts differently. Some victims carry on like nothing happened until such a time as their brain can handle processing what happened.
Apparently though, you missed part of my post after jumping to the conclusion that I am one of those that fall under the category of "all of you who think women are too stupid or childlike".
Having said that, I do not agree that these boys should have been charged with rape. Hell, I know if I'm riding my partner and lost in the moment, chances are if he asked me to stop it may take me that 5 seconds to comprehend what he's saying.
I agree with what BelieveTheHype said about it taking at least 5 seconds to process and act upon it. I also agree with you that in this situation she was in control and should be the one being held accountable for her actions.
This whole scenario is a bit off. I am in NO WAY suggesting that this is what happened but what sounds more realistic is that boy #2 decided he didn't want to have sloppy seconds and walked away. She then got pouty and pulled out the rape card. Males can change their minds too. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 6:49:22 AM |
According to what I've seen, the guy pulled out in 5 seconds, which is how long I think it would take to process that she said no, ensure that you're withdrawing without leaving anything in (like a condom), and take it all in.
BIG KISS. Wow someone with logic speaking common sense.
While I find it amusing that some folks in here are still going back to the original post, I think we're past that a bit.
But, that said, my take. The poor judge was probably sitting in his chambers, and thinking "Ok, now there's a stopwatch on rape? Yeah, like I'm gonna risk my re-election by my puritan supporters by saying it's like Final Jeopardy and you have some time to consider the question..." It's either immediate, or it's not. So he chose immediate.
And yeah, I bet it was a "shame" of a WTF moment that had the girl crying rape. Sure it was. But, and here's maybe the litmus test to use: if you're about to do something that could be interpreted as degrading or immoral to someone you just met, might want to reconsider it, just in case, oh, they're... well, as the joke goes:
"I'm sorry, mister Mouse, but we can find no grounds for divorce to support your claim that your wife Minnie is mentally unstable..."
"Look, moron, I didn't say she was unstable, I said she was unfaithful; I said I wanted a divorce because she was 'focking Goofy'!!"
Hmm... threesome in the parking lot with a stranger? Yeah, what possibly could go wrong with that?!?
Cowboy | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:38:25 AM |
In my opinion, stop means stop...now. Not five minutes from now, not five seconds from now.
PLEASE. Remember that the next time a cop pulls up behind you flashing his lights. He DID stop, in seconds. Still got convicted of rape. SHEESH
I know you think, 'waytoonicegirl' that you're making a real zinger of a point here...but I hate to break it to you, you're not making any sense Try again.
If I tell a man 'no', 'that hurts', 'stop', 'ow' - I expect him to stop right away. I'm not telling him to fiddle about for 5 more seconds. Your example of the police is a faulty one. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:54:29 AM | | no means no sir. it doesn't matter at which point she says "stop," "no," "dont...", if she says it, the person that is attempting the penetration must stop. rape is a case that the man almost always loses, so keep that in mind during your sexual encounters. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 10:08:26 AM | RE: Topic.
Only if you keep keep going. I mean... if its a serious no. I had a gf who liked to pretend I was raping her. That was.... well it was kinda fun actually. Freaked me out the first time mind you but then she explained herself... lol... I think the first time she was hoping Id actually rape her... Man... I miss her. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:23:46 AM | | I seriously hope most of the women in here don't lure anyone into dating them if they think it's justified to do 15 years of hardcore time because a man took a few seconds longer to stop having sex when you suddenly for no reason decide you're done. In my mind it would take someone who's really sick and calculating to even remotely agree with this insane punishment for this situation. If it was actual rape I could see it but this situation doesn't seem like it even bothered the girl. It's also hypocritical, because on the one hand you are saying that what he did justifies his being beaten and ACTUALLY raped in prison for 15 years but on the other you are saying that no one should be made to have sex against their will. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 11:40:02 AM |
@ FunnyGirl:
Ya, sure, it's YOUR body and YOUR choice to share. On the flip side, YIKES it is entirely possible to be way too prepared for an assault, and to take sex way too seriously.
It is?! Cause you said so?
You spoke to others of not making assumptions, yet to have addressed me in this way, that's exactly what YOU'VE done. Aside from that, what you said has no relevance to anything I've said. Nothing I've said even remotely hints that I live my life poised for another attack, and what dang difference does it make if I do? Further, how I take sex---too serious or otherwise--or how anyone else takes it, has no relevance to anything in this thread. "Stop", "That hurts!", "No" --when those statements are delivered, what happens next, and "is it rape?" is what this thread is about.
I don't mind being addressed at all, but your assumptions and judgments are of no value. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 12:39:38 PM | How come none of the ladies have addressed this question or is the LOGIC a bit much.
***************
Let me paint a scene for the women here and see if they can see the logic.
You are REALLY into oral sex. You LOVE IT. You're gobbling some guy and REALLY into it.
He says "no. stop." YOU take ..... 5 SECONDS ..... to pull your mouth away.
Subsequent to that you are CHARGED WITH RAPE, you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a lawyer, your name is printed in all the local papers and eventually ALL the National news too, you go to TRIAL and are CONVICTED (don't forget you can still get LIFE in some states for the DEVIANT ACT of oral sex) and sentenced to 15 YEARS in PRISON.
FAIR???
Or is it somehow "different" ????
*************
It seems to be "different" in some women's heads. 5 SECONDS of delay is equivalent to and needs to be punished by a sentence that most armed robbers don't get, that in FACT most REAL rapists don't get.
I don't GET IT.
If women (some anyway) see it as THAT cut and dried what makes my scenario (above) different? I think if the discussion was of some WOMAN who had just been convicted and sentenced to 15 YEARS in prison for not "STOPPING" a BJ for 5 whole SECONDS the attitudes and posts would be DRAMATICALLY different.
YA THINK? | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:00:49 PM | | well i dont agree with men forcin themselves on women but sometimes to be fair to the men women can play a part in this situation they know they have all the power an what they can do with it which then leaves the men with nothin personally alot of girls say rape when it isnt really they just have the power to do so so some sick people do obviously im not sayin that real rape isnt a crime because it really is but lets remember theres always two sides to a story. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:18:33 PM | | I've stopped before when the woman has wanted me to. She had emotional issues due to a recent break up and thought what we were doing was what she wanted until she started, then realized it was too emotionally painful so soon after a break up. I immediately stopped and just held her and stroked her hair while she cried. Why in the world would anyone want to force themselves on someone after they've told them to stop? I don't even comprehend that one bit. And I also don't get the guys that say it's painful to stop? What's painful? The ego blow because they didn't get "theirs"? Pure selfishness to me. Be KIND to each other, people. This world needs it. Nuff said. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:40:44 PM | | ^^^ Dude, did you read the thread? He DID stop. We all agree with that. The argument here has devolved into whether 5 seconds is a reasonable amount of time to stop. To me convicting someone of such a serious crime when his intent was, from what I can ascertain, fairly upstanding and right is absolutely ridiculous. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:49:50 PM | | There are countries in this world where she is the one who would have been punished for using her exposed skin, painted face, fluttering eyelashes, sexy voice, and pouty lips, to rape him in his mind long before he touched her. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 1:56:38 PM |
How come none of the ladies have addressed this question or is the LOGIC a bit much.
I did and totally admitted that 5 seconds would be barely enough time for me to hear him, comprehend him and stop what I was doing. And I also said that there is no way these boys should have been charged at all.
She needs to own her actions of having sex with two different boys in a parking lot and not place the blame on the ones with the c*cks. Just because it is the penis that does the penetrating, does not mean it is the one attached to the penis that is the perpetrator. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:04:10 PM | Oh GAWD / ALLAH - you mean this discussion is going to deteriorate into whether SHE should be stoned to death for being such a TRAMP in the first place.
Couldn't we find a little middle ground. He gets 15 YEARS for 5 more seconds HERE and THERE she would be put to death ... BOTH are almost as brainless and extreme.
STILL not one woman (ooops *EDIT * laughing posted while I was still typin' - sorry - everybody BUT you, OK?) will tell me how my scenario of a delayed BJ termination is different from what happened.  Com'on ladies. Give us an insight into how your logic centers process information if you think the two are different.
**************
And what VYPER said at the top of this page makes way more sense than a bunch of us trying to guess what REALLY happened to cause the first dude to plead guilty to rape. .... "Plead guilty to 2nd degree and and testify against your buddy OR we'll hang your ass and BOTH of you will get 10 to 25. Your choice. Make a decision ... NOW!!"
Happens all the time. DA & Crowns just want a short day. They could care less if what they're doing in court in ANY WAY resembles JUSTICE. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:07:50 PM | In your opinion can a woman withdraw consent during intercourse?
Yes.
Is it rape if the man persists for five seconds?
Yes, if there is penetration.
Two?
Yes, if there is penetration.
How about if he completes a single, final downstroke before withdrawal?
Yes, if there is penetration.
On the other hand, if there is consent prior to penetration
There's something that confuses me in the case that the OP cited. When they say that the second teenager "continued to try to penetrate her for approximately five seconds after she said "stop," why did they use the word "try?" Does that mean he didn't actually penetrate her, but tried to stick it in her for 5 seconds, with no success? Cuz if there was no penetration, then that's really iffy. He's guilty of rape because he got a little carried away for 5 seconds? Pffft.
On the other hand, if there was any penetration at all after she said no, then he's guilty. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:13:54 PM | ^ I agree--- to a point.
Not to be vulgar, but are we counting after he began pulling out or before?
I think that makes a difference. I also think that it might take a second to register to begin with. There are a lot of variables. I'm by no means saying that anyone should ignore a "no" or a "stop" (I think I've made my opinion on that score quite clear), but I'm wondering how this is measured and what is "reasonable." | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:33:50 PM | Okey dokey--I'll bite!
You are REALLY into oral sex. You LOVE IT. You're gobbling some guy and REALLY into it.
He says "no. stop." YOU take ..... 5 SECONDS ..... to pull your mouth away.
This happens?!
I'd stop the moment he tells me to and I'd inquire as to what's wrong, is he OK, etc. When I'm loving on him, I'm very tuned into his response, almost to the point that I feel what he's feeling as he feels it, and I usually know what's coming next. It wouldn't take but a second to respond to whatever his response is, or whatever he instructs me to do.
Now, my guy does tell me to stop all the time, but when he does, it's more like begging and pleading cause he's too close and doesn't wanna get there yet. But if he says stop, just as I mentioned in my earlier reply about another incident, I'd do exactly what he says, and I'd do it lickity split. It's a twosome...we do it together or we don't do it at all.
I haven't addressed the actual case the OP mentions because I think this is a bigger issue than the parameters defined in that case. I think that case is bizarre....that's about the best I can say. I don't care if it takes 5 seconds, as long as he acknowledges the request fairly quickly and doesn't attempt to "finish ", despite my protests. (I just counted it as in "one/one thousand; two/one thousand, etc...it's not very long.) I'm a reasonable girl; I wouldn't go after a guy cause it took him 5 seconds to acknowledge my request. But he better stop whatever he's doing and listen to me. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:35:28 PM | | Over here 99% in jail for sex crimes are men. Over there 99% punished for sex reasons are women. What is the middle ground? Is it fair to say that whatever it is, it should result in a 50/50 punishment? After all, there is more to a person than the physical part, and women are a lot better at raping those parts of a man than vice versa. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 2:45:27 PM | | Apparently a LOT of people aren't seeing the whole(big) picture in this case.Seems this woman said to one while having sex (consentual w/another)that he could(do it too...her words not mine),then changes her mind(her total right to do so). However what kind of woman does things like she did,then gets BOTH men charged with rape? If I read the story right,the woman consented to ONE of them and asked the other to wait.Now the story doesnt say she told him to stop before or after orgasm. Of course the woman could "cry rape" at anytime and the guy is totally screwed...TOTALLY!! It's great that woman have "control" over their experience,however that's no excuse for "stupid" and assinine behavior! I do think a guy should stop when a woman says to regardless but there are many scenarios possible here and it's not always a plain,cut and dry situation. | |
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