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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 5:49:19 PM |
In MY mind yes, I need a break means I want to stop now, not 5 minutes from now......
I agree, renta. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The only time I'd ever withdraw consent after the sex has started is when I have intestinal gas (it's painful then) or a yeast infection. Otherwise I'd let him finish. If I don't want to have sex with a guy I'd never let him get beyond fist base, if that far.
N. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/24/2008 9:17:30 PM | OK, OK ... no more snarky, under the breath comments about me looking like a rapist! 
Singer James @ msg 96:
It appears from the testimony provided that the convicted teenager never actually penetrated her, but persisted to to try for a few seconds after she told him to stop because his efforts to insert his penis was hurting her. The following is an excerpt from the judicial opinion of the first-level appellate court, including direct questioning from the prosecutor:
(the victim/complainant in this case is "J.L."; her girlfriend (who was initially with the victim and the two perps, but left the group because the boys had expressed an interest in having sex, and she was not interested) is named "Lacey"; "Mike" is the first teenager, who later pled guilty to some sex-related charge and was sentenced to 18 months; and the "appellant" is the convicted boy ("Baby"))
Q. Now when you told [appellant] if I say stop,
something like that, you have to stop. What did he do
after you spoke those words?
A. Well he got on top of me and he tried to put it in
and it hurt. So I said stop and that’s when he kept
pushing it in and I was pushing his knees to get off me.
Q. You were on your back and he was on top of you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he stop pushing his penis into your vagina?
A. Not right away.
Q. About how long did he continue to put his penis into
your vagina?
A. About five or so seconds.
Q. And then what happened?
A. And that’s when he just got off me and that’s when
Mike got in the car. . . .
J.L. testified that appellant continued for five or ten
seconds, but she did not believe that he had ejaculated. She
testified that, as the trio proceeded back to McDonald’s, appellant
asked her to “jack him off,” but, although she refused, she did
give him her telephone number. After obtaining Lacey’s cell
telephone number from appellant, J.L. called her and said she was
okay and would be there (at McDonald’s) in a couple of seconds.
Mike [apparently driving J.L.'s car] parked the car across the street from McDonald’s and hugged J.L. before he and appellant departed.
Thereafter, the complainant drove Lacey to Shoppers Food
Warehouse, where they met J.L.’s mother and then proceeded to
Lacey’s house after helping J.L.’s mother to shop. Upon arriving
at Lacey’s house, the complainant responded in the negative to
inquiries about what was wrong from Lacey’s brother, but related
what had happened to Lacey’s mother. After the police were called,
J.L. went to the hospital to be examined. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:08:06 AM | No means no and stop means stop. I don't care what point you are at in the act. Now, nothing says you can't get pissed off that you had to stop. You can call names. You can never see them again but you stop regardless. I've told a man to stop and he didn't. I told him to stop because I was in pain beyond what I could handle. Now, I'm not going to charge him with rape but I would hesitate before seeing him again and we would have to clarify some things before we were intimate again.
As far as a woman who likes to make it a game, if she hasn't clarified this before, stop anyway. If you don't like the game, stop and walk away and find someone else who's tastes match yours. Sure, it may be uncomfortable not to cum but you could always finish yourself if need be. You always stop but it's your choice if you continue if they change their mind yet again. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/25/2008 1:32:36 PM | Stop means stop is correct. This is exactly what he did and it took A FEW SECONDS. This IS stopping right away. What was he supposed to do, snap his fingers and instantly appear across the room like a genie? Why can so few people see how serious what happened to this poor guy is? He showed a lot of control to stop that quickly. I'm assuming he felt comfortable enough with her that this wasn't much of a problem. Obviously she was comfortable with him (and probably a lot of other men), driving him around afterwards and then giving him her number.
Any judge that would do this to somebody in this type of scenario should be put in prison for a long long time because they definitely have a god complex or some other issues. I may just pull this stunt myself when I'm having sex and get too sore to continue. I'll have my stopwatch at the ready and my fingers set to dial 911. ANYONE who thinks this is fair for the way this happened is very very sick and disgusting in my book. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/25/2008 2:25:38 PM | CW, from what I read from the transcripts, he attempted entry for 5 seconds after she said stop. That's not stopping. That's not taking time to pull out. He continued to try and enter her. That's what I see as the problem.
However, if you read the OP, we aren't talking JUST about this particular case but general rules. Some people are getting fixated on what they percieve to be the details of the case. Frankly, unless we read the transcripts or where in the court room, we don't know the details.
Oh, and for anybody who judges her based on the fact that she gave him her number, ect... afterwards, this is not uncommon. I lost my virginity to a rapist at 16 and talked to him afterwards and pretended nothing had happened. It was shock. I shut down and blocked normal reactions. I never reported him and that's my one regret because I'm sure he did the same to other girls after me. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:35:21 PM |
J.L. testified that appellant continued for five or ten
seconds, but she did not believe that he had ejaculated. She
testified that, as the trio proceeded back to McDonald’s, appellant
asked her to “jack him off,” but, although she refused, she did
give him her telephone number. After obtaining Lacey’s cell
telephone number from appellant, J.L. called her and said she was
okay and would be there (at McDonald’s) in a couple of seconds.
Mike [apparently driving J.L.'s car] parked the car across the street from McDonald’s and hugged J.L. before he and appellant departed.
Thereafter, the complainant drove Lacey to Shoppers Food
Warehouse, where they met J.L.’s mother and then proceeded to
Lacey’s house after helping J.L.’s mother to shop. Upon arriving
at Lacey’s house, the complainant responded in the negative to
inquiries about what was wrong from Lacey’s brother, but related
what had happened to Lacey’s mother. After the police were called,
J.L. went to the hospital to be examined.
This whole thing right here makes it sound like it was planted in her head that she was raped.
She gave the guy her phone number after the act. She called her friend after the fact and said she was okay. Her friend's brother asked her if anything was wrong, and she said no.
Then she talks to her friend's mom about it, and suddenly the police get involved. Does this sound fishy to anybody else? | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:31:37 AM | | o anme nameh my god i MUST give my opinion here...HELL NO!!!! sorry, that is ridiculous....u dont ever let it get that far as a woman...u would have 2 be crazy stupid or drunk. and neither of these excuses are even good enuf. come on, there r boundries after all. i cant believe im even hearing this.stupid retarded even MEAN 2 do this 2 a man......this type of woman gives other women a bad name...................................... | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 2:40:55 AM | Those boys are going to jail for a year or years . Ladies this is bullshit and you know it . She withdrew consent this is true , but five second in a non violent sexual trist such as this ... No ****ing way should they go to jail . She gave them a ride , pick up her friend and probably threw a rape case on them to protect her character . after all ****ing two guys in the parking lot isn't exactly the best position to defend at this point .
I have a mother , sister and nieces too . But this is bullshit , i'm sorry .
If the situation was reversed the women would be famous ,true, but they wouldn't go to jail . Equal means equal this is catering to women pure and simple . | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:04:33 AM | Well....if she tells you to stop and you don't stop...to me, it is rape. Regardless of when she tells you. However, I would expect that it would take 2-5 seconds for you to stop and get away from me. I mean, Welder is quite large and one time it was really hurting...I mean I went a threw up. I told him to stop and he thought I was playing and I had to bop him upside the head one good time for him to realize that I wasn't. If he then would have continued, then yes, I could view it as rape, because he knew I meant it but kept going anyways.
~Welder's Girl~
Edit: future ^^^^ I agree with you there. Don't forget the Duke lacrosse rape case. Those boys had their lives trampled on for too long and will always carry a stigma even though they are innocent. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:25:09 AM | If it's consentual to begin with then no, but if she says stop then STOP!!!. It's bad ju-ju to continue. 
Plus I know someone that was thrown in jail for 6 months all on a woman's word for rape. He never touched her and she was just trying to get revenge on him for leaving her which she came out and admitted to authorities 6 months after he was in jail. Yet his whole life was ruined from it... | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:29:24 AM | I am torn by this case, I have to admit. First when someone says no to sex that is it...no.
However, she initially consented.....her friend left because she wasn't interested. Lets also remember the ages of the people we are talking about.
<div class="quote">The case involved two male high school teenagers who engaged in consensual sex with a female community college student in an isolated area of a parking lot.
So we have 3 very inexperienced people sexually...all of them still in the "gangly" stage of growth. Hell most high school boys are still getting used to how long their legs have gotten and we are expecting these boys to have the coordination to stop what they are doing within a 5 second window??? She said stop, he tried penetration again and failed again and then he stopped... all of this has been admitted.
I have to wonder if the encounter had gone a bit differently would this rape case have ever come about. I mean, she did consent, If penetration had been achieved and they were enjoying themselves this would never have come out this way. But instead, the attempt to have intercourse failed and he got 15 years in prison for a 5 second window after she said no.
5 SECONDS. Teenagers don't register that you spoke to them in 5 seconds let alone act on it!!!
** interesting note, I just reviewed this case with my teenage daughter who said the whole thing was "gay" and that she didn't think the girl was raped. 5 seconds is actually pretty fast for a teenage boy to respond to anything.** | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 5:55:57 AM | Again-- how is the time frame being measured?
I think it take at least a second to register, maybe two. Also.. again, not to be vulgar, is that 5 seconds from before he started to pull out or from she asked until he completed it? I'm sure that matters for a second or two. I agree that you need to stop when someone says to, but how many seconds is acceptable? Obviously you can't instantly be someplace else.
This is why it is dangerous to have sex with strangers. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:13:45 AM | | kthyg: If you think 5 SECONDS to regain your composure and stop is worth 15YEARS of torture, beatings and continuous rape of the other party (because that is what he will have to endure), not to mention ruining a life, then you have some serious vengeance issues and aren't thinking clearly. Not to mention it's a hypocritical line of thinking much like believing in the death penalty. She's inviting guys to have sex one after the other and it doesn't read like she was very "scared" afterwards. I would NEVER have sex with a woman without knowing their personal history of abuse etc. at this point and after reading some of the cold opinions in here. It seems to create a huge chip that never goes away. It also seems to create a desire to lock up any man within arms length for almost any reason to pay for the original abuse. There's obviouly a dangerous twisted logic to this that I want no part of. If this guy was just a "violent rapist" he wouldn't have stopped at all and she would have had to fight him off. Also, who's to say that she wasn't incoherent for a few seconds because she was breathing heavy and he didn't quite make out what she said in that length of time? No matter what happened there is no sane arguement whatsoever to justify what this boy is going to have to endure. I guess it doesn't matter in this society though because he's just a male and we don't seem to have the same rights anyway. Very sick place we live in. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:25:32 AM | The reality of youth is that life-destroying mistakes happen. The age of the offenders doesn't bother me as much as the situation itself. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Her action don't seem to be consistent with someone under duress, but even if she were--- 5 seconds doesn't seem like an unreasonable amount of time to take to register and stop when you're having consensual sex.
This is why I believe in teaching children not to engage in risky behaviors. Of course, not all children listen... but it helps a bit. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:42:57 AM | I can see different sides of this issue. On the one hand, I don't think the first kid should have gotten charged with anything. She did consent to having sex with the second kid but said 'ok, if he stops when I tell him to'. (Red flag right there...that kind of says that she wasn't too hot on the idea but was willing to go along because she'd already gotten herself in over her head-she should have said no then, but that's not what happened so it's moot). He did pull out, without further physically dominating her, hitting her, or controlling her. Five seconds is not that long in the grand scheme. I think the sentence was a little harsh on him too.
On the other hand, the only other thing as invasive as intercourse that I can think of to compare with is the dentist. It is generally implied and sometimes even spoken that when the dentist is hurting you, he'll get out of your mouth. If you make a gesture that you want him to stop, and he is still doing his thing even though he's hurting you, five seconds can seem like a lot longer time.
This conversation has turned further away from the original topic, and I can't recall all 5 pages of posts I would like to address, but stop does mean stop. Just because a man is heated up and the woman may have even gotten him that way, does not mean he has a right to continue. There aren't that many people saying that he does have a right to continue, but to the ones who are saying "do you know how painful it is", I say boooo. lol I tried to do the thumbs down, but when you edit your post, it turns into a thumbs up, so you get boooo. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:47:27 AM | hey op?? do it judge judylike,,, KISS
Keep It Simple Stupid,,,
when you hear the words: stop, dont, no, ; or anything like it,, GET YOUR NAKED ASS UP, GRAB YOUR $HIT AND GET OUT. RUN YOUR A$$ OUTTA THERE. BETTER YET, dont deal with indecisive women. avoid drunk women, or otherwise intoxicated women. if there is the least little question of if she is consenting or not,, consider it a negatory and get our ass,( as well as the rest of you) out of there.
sadly, there are women who look upon their regret to sexual encounters as a reason to charge some bloke with a crime. for those of us who are legitimately victims of rape, those B!tches really grind my nerves. and the law is on the side of these women when its clear that its not rape that occured but rather someone who didnt think thru her decisions. you shouldnt be calling it rape when he doesnt perform to your expectations or you change your mind in mid stroke. If you tell him you changed your mind after penetration, and he doesnt quit, then yeah, its rape. pardon me for sayin it, but the chick in the original post was just trying to make herself look better than she did when she took two guys to a remote location to DO the two of em. she lost all credibilty when she went to that parking lot. did she deserve to get raped,, OF COURSE NOT. but did those guys deserve what they got because this chick changed her mind? HELL NO! considering what that law says, sounds to me like they have grounds for appeal. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:57:40 AM | CW, I never addressed the sentancing. In this case, I think 15 years is very harsh. I was trying to address the facts of the case, rather than the appropriatness of the sentance. The subject of the conditions in prison are yet another topic and off the subject of this thread.
Here is what I see as the facts. She said stop. He continued to try and enter her against her will. That's attempted rape. The length of time is somewhat irrelevant. I agree 5 seconds sounds like a short time. What about a minute? What about 5 minutes? What is the time frame that would be acceptable? I don't know and I would say no one else does either.
I do have an issue with women falsly claiming rape. It is hard enough to prove date rape or spousal rape as it is. Using such a claim when it's not legitimate harms all of us. I really think that there needs to be stiff penalties for those actions. I also think that anyone who files a false claim should get their 15 minutes of "fame" as their name and picture is publised for the whole world to see. | |
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| Is It Rape If She Consents and Changes Her Mind During the Act?
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:27:09 AM | I think that the amount of time is somewhat relevant-- 5 seconds is not a minute. 5 seconds is not 5 minutes.
If someone asked you how long it takes you to stop doing ANYTHING... what would your answer be? What would your answer be in? I think that for most actions it would be in seconds.
I don't know... I just don't know.... | |
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