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 Author Thread: obama's chances in the general election
 bob0colo

Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 151
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/5/2008 10:45:30 PM
.
You are the reason I have to support Hillary. Indiana Has not had a meaningful Primary for 40 years...

I bet it was a Blast... I know that the Obama People in Indiana feel the same....

The Voter turn out is going to be Giant....

I have been a Democrat forever and I know that Hillary right now is helping to grow the party like no other time...
The only way to avoid a stolen election is to have an ......... overwhelming ........ turnout.
 dancecard

Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 152
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/6/2008 6:34:39 AM
Obama has gave us a good run ~ and i like he ~ if he" is" as I see him to be. ~ He typifies the American ideas of our founding fathers. He speaks with intent and purpose.

He just need to shore up some questions of allegiance that I and many others have. ~
He need to stand a deliver the "pledge of allegiance" like the rest of his countrymen.

There is no room for doubt in this area ~ It got 43 elected ~ and it's killing Obama and he don't seem to get it. ~ It's America not Africa that conserns us today. Africa comes under foriegn affairs.

He has allowed room for doubt with his behavior. ~ dance
 blackprince

Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 153
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/7/2008 11:12:14 PM
Well i see the gang is all here and some new ones i have not read yet, so hello to Itechman42, Jedi, Simmah, Simlasa, Name, Suth Boy, Montreal (who i enjoy reading his posts alot), and to the new ones i am only discoverying, Exnerox, Rick Tired, Barbe and Dance also Bob.

May 6 for me was bitter sweet day Obama one N.Carolina and came within 2 of Indiana, sweet because he is finaly on his way to the nomination, bitter because of the exit polls that almost half of Hillary supporters will not vote for Obama. Now i wont speculate on the will not vote for Obama (although i have 3 ideals on this and i will keep that to myself), Hillary did a great job thus far and Obama has shown me the spirit of Jackie Robbison and JFK, their calmness in face of what has got to be a stressful situation. I was proud (very proud).

When i was 25 and just out of the military, a black man asked me how i could serve in the military, and go over to a country whos population is concidered color and to fight for the lie that we were restoring democracy back into the country. Firts i told him because i signed a contract saying i would do it, second i informed him that Kuwait is not and was not a democracy and i knew why we were fighting that war, i also informed him that i knew that Sadam was an ally of American during the 80s, i also informed this man that i also knew that we helped forment a coup in Iran (we did overthrow the democraticaly elected goverment of Iran in the 50s and installed the Shaw), I informed heim i knew all this about American history and more, but i also knew all teh good things this country did around the world. The point of all this is even though i knew all this and i was not very proud of this country, but yet i would still serve my country again in any war.

So when Mrs Obama said for the (i quote, because it seem that some people like to drop a few worlds in her statement to make it look bad), " For teh first time in my adult life i am very proud of my country), this statement does not imply that she is not proud of her country until Obama got into the race. All she was saying I believe is this experience has made her truly and very proad of her country. As i am.


More people are getting involved, more people are demanding more from politicians , more people are paying attention, and more 18 to 30 year olds are voting. This to me makes me very proud. I mentor inner city kids and until this year these kids realy had no interest in politics (most would say it does not matter), now these kids are white, black, and hispanics. Now i ask you what do you say to kids like this, what? How do you tell them it matters, all they have seen in their lives is poverty, dealth, and crime. They know where the drug dealers are, they know their schools are in bad shape, they see their parents struggling to make ends meet, they see all this. But also they see teh drug dealers, the politicians, they other side of life and you know what they want it. They could care less how they get.

But in the the last year, something changed they started asking me about politics, they asked about Obama McCain , and Hillary. They would ask me what does Rev Wright have to do with Obama, what is a gas tax.

The point of all of this is kids are paying attention, and if Jillary steals this, this will be gone for another generation or two.

Also some one tell me how do you judge patriotism? Oh and just to let people know it was not the pledge of allegence, it was the starspangled banner, oh one more thing he did the correct thing or one of three things for one who is not in uniform should do.

Oh and can any of you "so called gun ho patriots sing the star spangled banner, word for word? I can, so if i can does this give me a reason to say to those who cannot do not love this country.

Obama 08
 SimmahDahnNah

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 154
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:34:52 AM

because of the exit polls that almost half of Hillary supporters will not vote for Obama. Now i wont speculate on the will not vote for Obama (although i have 3 ideals on this and i will keep that to myself


Hi to you too, BP!

You don't have to keep your theories to yourself, they are finally starting to ask people the same question. On election night, I saw the barrage of polls they ask as exit questions. It seems that of the white people who won't or didn't vote for Obama, they are (a majority anyway) non-college grads, and people who feel Wright was an issue. It kind of saddens me that the media is now running with this demographic. I have heard several times since then them talk about the 'uneducated' people that Obama 'will have a tough time with'. Some of those people watch the news too...and I think if I heard myself in that conversation, it sure wouldn't change my mind. I think it's going to p!ss off a lot of people and now they'll really never change their minds. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Obama does need Hillary supporters, when she finally does exit the picture. I hope Hillary has plans to help make that happen. If she does not, there will be a black mark on the Clinton name for me forever. Which is a shame, because overall I think Clinton was a great president and together they have worked for a lot of good.

If someone told us 10-15 years ago this would be the kind of election we'd be experiencing, do you think any of us would have believed it? lol It's been crazy!
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 155
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 6:59:42 AM
Hi BP, and the others.

As much as I agree or disagree with individuals here, I'm still rather impressed with the general tone of the discussion here - most times.

This is an emotional subject, and we all believe strongly in our points of view. That's needed in democracy, and (above all) we have to believe in keeping our right to dissent as civil as possible. I don't seen anyone here as being "right" or "wrong". We are all advocates for our opinions, and those things are based on the individual paths we all took to arrive here.

I've got some people who disagree with me politically on my favorites list, and that's because I highly respect their ability to advocate their stances well. During this debate on Obama, I've actually found myself TAKEN OFF some people's favs - even from "liberal" posters.

Politics seems so polarizing down there, a question of (dare I say) black or white (and I don't mean skin color). That's something I can understand, based on the way modern American politics has devolved, over the last two decades.

In the end, we all have to work together, after this election is over - or any election is over. Within our parties, and with our opponents, little will ever be accomplished if it becomes so vicious that we burn all our bridges.

That lessens everyone, and blocks progress.

Back to the topic at hand, I think Obama can do very well in this election. He's got some major strengths, and some strong demographics.


But Jamal Simmons, a Democratic strategist and Obama supporter, disagreed, saying the Democratic Party has "the best coalition to go out and talk to people across racial lines, which are the unions."

If Obama wins the nomination, he said, support from unions should help him gain support among blue-collar workers when "they don't have to choose between two Democrats."

Among the Democratic candidates, Clinton has had the advantage with working-class and middle-income voters, though Obama has increased his support in that demographic, according to exit polls.

In the March 4 Ohio primary, Clinton won voters who made under $50,000 by 14 points.

In the April 22 Pennsylvania primary, that advantage was down to 8 points. And in the Indiana primary, exit polls showed the two candidates evenly split among those voters.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/07/limbaugh.obama/index.html


If you look back historically, in recent times, to what the Democratic party always stood for - these are ideal times. It's time to return to those roots, and to realize the great strength of that tradition.

Those people, the working class and middle class, have the most to gain from a Democratic election. They will be the first ones hit by this economic downturn, and they will pay the heaviest price in a relative sense.

They are the base of your country, it's foundation.

They are the ones that empower your economy. When they get hit economically, the economy starts to tighten up as they make important decisions about what money to spare and when.

It's time for people to realize that this house divided against itself cannot stand, which is a true now as it was back when those words were first used by Lincoln. You have a nation with incredible potential, with so much to offer, and a long history of overcoming such temporary moments of soul searching by becoming even stronger.

An America that's weak, divided, and without moral direction or unity isn't any good for anyone - inside or outside your borders.
 dancecard

Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 156
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:24:17 AM
for what it's worth ~ if Mrs.Clinton doesn't get it ~ I will do ~ as the Clintons' will do and back Obama ~ 100%. ~

I like Obama ~I just like Bill & Hillary better ~~

and respect McCain ~ but I feel he's GOP and part of today's problem. ~

We'll never get the house cleaning with McCain ~

We'll never get the current theives ~ brought to justice!

We'll never get the needed change ~

When I look at Obama ~ I don't want to see a man of color ~ words, deeds and that polorize race and color ~ put me off ~ a person of any color or race ~ the chair is too big for such a person.

Obama ~ has been a victim ~ of other's racist statements ~ and handle it well ~~

I look for a day ~ when this ~ is no more ~ and we address the issues of the day. ~

dance
 woodenmike

Joined: 6/17/2007
Msg: 157
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:45:48 AM
It all has zero to do with who will "win", and everything to do with dividing the people as much as possible.

The truth about McCain will come out when he faces Obama or Hitlery.

Many idiots will still vote for McCain because they don't want a Black/Female Criminal president, as many idiots will vote for Obama/Hitlery because they offer phoney "change" from the same old rich White guys.

"Divide and Conquor", or, in this case, divide and keep a corporate/C.F.R. tool in the White House.

We won't have any hope until the people wake up and realize that the RapethePublicans and DemonicRats are the same.

Ron Paul offers real Hope for America.

Hmmmmm, seems Dr. Paul's book, "The Revolution: A Manifesto" is #1 on the N.Y. Times bestseller list!

Hitlery/McCain/Obama are all treasonous C.F.R. scumbags, and all will contribute to the loss of our Constitution and sovereignty. Remember those of us who TOLD YOU SO!
 Reddwine

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 158
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let's get real for a second
Posted: 5/8/2008 10:59:58 AM
No. He hasnt got a snowballs chance in hell. McCain will chew him up and spit him out. I knew Obama would whine about Limbaugh being the reason he lost votes.. Thats comical. That man never takes responsibilty for anything.

and Bill Cosby will be pretty upset over this one:

Can you imagine the president of the United States attending a church where the pastor says everyone has a bit of “thug” in him and praises a rapper with a criminal record as a prophet?

How about a pastor who calls the biblical patriarch Abraham a “pimp” and says Noah and Moses were thugs, Jesus has a “soft spot for thugs,” and everyone has some “thug proclivities.”

If Barack Obama is elected president, that is exactly what will happen. Now that the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. is retiring from Trinity United Church of Christ, Obama has said he will continue to attend the church.

Explaining his decision, Sen. Obama said that the “new pastor, the young pastor, Reverend Otis Moss, is a wonderful young pastor.” He said he also still values the Trinity community.

Known as the "hip-hop pastor," Otis Moss III has served as assistant pastor of the church for two years. Moss officially takes over in June.

While Moss has not expressed hatred of America and of whites yet, as Wright did, in a sermon on YouTube, <~~( reference ) Moss derides and ridicules middle-class America for not accepting the “prophetic brilliance” of thugs.

Does anyone remember Obama has kids sitting in church listening to all this stuff?

....and here we go again.
 RedTory

Joined: 3/3/2008
Msg: 159
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 2:27:50 PM
This assumes BO will make it to November. On Tuesday, after North Carolina went strongly for the Empty Suit, I had a flashback to 1968. It felt like June 1968 and RFK was giving his speech at the Ambassador Hotel.
 SimmahDahnNah

Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 160
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 2:29:08 PM
Ok, NSA, ATF, Secret Service, now here this!

RedTory said it. Watch this guy.




 RedTory

Joined: 3/3/2008
Msg: 161
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 2:40:03 PM
I've said nothing other than the fact that I think he could be assassinated if he's the Democratic nominee. Nobel Prize winner Doris Lessing and many others have said the same thing.
 itechman42

Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 162
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 2:57:30 PM
No one's tried to assassinate Bush and no jealous husbands came after Willie. I'd only be concerned if there was some whacko out there wanting to impress Miley Cyrus.
 xfahctor

Joined: 4/26/2008
Msg: 163
obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 3:36:28 PM
Either way, I'll still have to get up and go to work in the morning. I've heard it said that "america isn't ready for a black president". I think that is a week argument and that as a nation, despite media hype and people in the business of perpetuating race issues such as Al sharpton, have come much farther than that since the 50's. What this nation isn't ready for is the dire left end that Mr. Obama presents. Americans on the average don't seem to like extremes, and I think THIS is what will ultimately get him in the general election.
 tranquilo123

Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 164
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:58:52 PM
"This assumes BO will make it to November. On Tuesday, after North Carolina went strongly for the Empty Suit, I had a flashback to 1968. It felt like June 1968 and RFK was giving his speech at the Ambassador Hotel."

Is this part of the plan?; If the smear job doesn't work, let's try a little intimidation and remind everybody about some options. We might even get lucky and get a lunatic to believe that he can get his 15 minutes of fame if he pulls the trigger.

You are certainly on the wrong side of history, and oozing moral insanity.
 NERO1

Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 165
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 8:10:08 PM
^^ Yeah it's pretty reprehensible when people start talking like that. To me it sounds like, 'our side might well lose, so we can always remind people that presidents (& their relatives in the case of JFK) have been assassinated before'.... Someone sent me a link to view a thread from some white separatist website in which Obama was basically being threatened. I sent it to the FBI tip thing which they have online. Nowadays with all the gun-loving lunatics in this violent country, you never know. Everyone has to be vigilant to prevent terrorism and tragedies; it's like "neighborhood watch"...
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 166
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 8:27:20 PM
Bravo Nero!

Always glad to see another proud and honorable person!
 nipoleon

Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 167
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:20:02 PM
An election is not so much contest of ideas but rather a seduction.
It's seldom the best man who gets the girl but the most interesting one. The one who's best able to capture her imagination will capture her heart.

That candidate who's best able to capture the imagination of the populace will win the election. Positive or negative qualities don't matter so much as attractiveness. This is what romance is all about and politics. Don't ask who best deserves to be president or who's best qualified. If the best qualified candidate always won our history would be a lot different .
Ask, who is everybody thinking about ?
 exodusi1

Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 168
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:23:21 PM
Actually, my favorite candidate did get the girl; Dennis Kucinich. He my not be President, but he definitely married the furthest out of his league!
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 169
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:35:51 PM
Again, I find the fact that people are getting so sanctimonious about Obama, and taking out the CAT scanner and asking for X-Rays.

Many of these same people elected a president, TWICE, that had convictions and arrests for DUI's and theft, who spend most of his life an alcoholic, and who only discovered God at the end of his life.

That same man had a record of failure in business.

He had no real record in politics either, until late in life - and he came from a political dynasty.

He also , in the case of his SECOND election campaign, had started a war based on a presumption (one that was CERTAIN, in his mind) that was factually proven totally false.

None of this seemed to be of any concern to them when they voted for him - twice.

Suddenly, everyone's picking up rocks ? Watch out for the factual wall you are hurling them through when you unleash them on Obama.

How come you guys aren't the same ones calling for the current President to be impeached ?
 Crash1967

Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 170
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/8/2008 11:46:34 PM

That same man had a record of failure in business.


Not to mention that one of the big issues raised by Hillary is of experience....NONE of the presidential candidates has any administrative background, yet the guy in there now ran no less than 3 companies in the ground AS THE administrator, and now he's doing it to a nation.

....well, since the passage of the equal rights amendment I've had no trouble changing my mind as its no longer a womans prerogative..... I have decided to go for Obama just because he said he would go for prosecution of these jerks in the white house now.... which was why I was going for Nader. Oh how I would love a Obama/Nader ticket..... talk about a dream team....
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 171
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:47:53 AM
The DNC is also MUCH richer than the Republican's are, in terms of it's war chest.


The DCCC reported more than $44 million in cash-on-hand recently, far outpacing its rival, the National Republican Congressional Committee.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/08/weinstein.pelosi/index.html


McCain's also got a soft underbelly that's a critical flaw in this period of American history.


BILL MOYERS: You say he's the most pro-war candidate in the last decade.

MATT WELCH: People forget this, but in 1999 and 2000, when he was running against George Bush, he was the neoconservative candidate. You know, four years before the doctrine of preemptive war ever even occurred to Bush, McCain was running on a campaign of rogue state rollback, is what he called it, in which America was supposed to go anywhere there was an authoritarian dictatorship. We were supposed to help the insurgents materially, covertly, however. And if those insurgents got cracked down upon about the government, then we support them militarily. It is a much more radical and interventionist approach than George Bush ever had, certainly at the beginning of his presidency.

MICKEY EDWARDS: We have a tripartite system. I hate to tell you this, but the executive branch — head of the executive branch is not the head of government. It's one of three equal branches. And George Bush forgot that. And I'm not totally sure that John McCain would remember it.

BILL MOYERS: Did you watch the endorsement of McCain by George Bush earlier this week?

PRESIDENT BUSH: In 2000 I said, vote for me, I'm an agent of change. In 2004, I said, I'm not interested in change — I want to continue as President. Every candidate has got to say "change." That's what the American people expect. And the good news about our candidate is, there will be a new President, a man of character and courage — but he's not going to change when it comes to taking on the enemy. And there's still an enemy that lurks, an enemy that wants to strike us. And this country better have somebody in that Oval Office who understands the stakes, and John McCain understands those stakes. SENATOR MCCAIN: Thank you, sir. I don't have anything to add.

BILL MOYERS: Combine that with what you said and what write, and it seems to me that Bush is echoing — it seems to me that McCain is echoing Bush and Cheney when it comes to the imperial presidency, the power of the presidency, to the foreign expeditions, to a strong — to, you know, doubling the budget. Am I wrong on that?

MICKEY EDWARDS: No. I think he's making a mistake in showing up at the White House, standing beside George Bush. You know, the thing that gave him all of the credibility that he had was that he was perceived as a maverick. He was perceived as somebody who is not in George Bush's pocket. You know, now, he undercuts that. First of all, he's already won the nomination, right. So why does he need to play to that very small base of Bush supporters?

BILL MOYERS: Why?

MICKEY EDWARDS: You know, I think — well, you know, it was — I think it was a mistake. Because if I were him, I would say, "The Bush presidency is ending. I'm something different." Not "I'm a continuation." The country does not want a continuation of George W. Bush.

MATT WELCH: A very interesting artifact of this primary season that if you look in the early elections — before Super Tuesday, McCain never won even a plurality among voters who self-identify this Republican when asked.

MATT WELCH: Even in close primaries. He was tied at best, with anybody. He won because he won two to one on the vote that was anti-war, that was angry at Bush, and who described themselves as independents. And independents in this country, even more than regular citizens, are completely against the war. People— he won the Republican nomination because of the anti-war vote.

BILL MOYERS: Fascinating.

MATT WELCH: It's fascinating.

BILL MOYERS: How do you explain it?

MATT WELCH: I think it's partially because he's a charismatic, likeable fellow. People have a fond memory of the 2000 campaign, when he was being very mavericky, and he was calling, you know, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson agents of intolerance, and these kind of things. And he seemed to speak his mind in a way that was unusual for a politician. And he's just sort of a charismatic personality.

But it's also because I believe that he's both overexposed and under-examined. People don't really look at his foreign policy, his experience, his family tradition. His father and grandfather were both four star admirals in the U.S. Navy. And not just that. They were both really strong advocates for a sort of 19th century British model of imperialism, for lack of a better word. Of using the huge navy to guarantee the world, make the world safe for democracy. This is the tradition that John McCain has marinated in his whole life. And it was only Vietnam that sort of knocked him off his game. It reduced his faith in the sort of — the right of America's might. He regained that faith right about the time that he started running for president for the first time. And since then, he's right on message. And that message is more interventionist, it's more explicitly militaristic than George Bush.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03072008/transcript2.html


There's the target, if you are a smart Democratic political analyst.

With the proper focus, with a carefully thought out campaign, pointing out these things to voters will weaken McCain to the average American voter - especially if/when the economy and war in Iraq decline in popular acceptance (both already low) and will prove difficult to defend.

McCain's strapped into these two seats, and he can't eject this time.
 Reddwine

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 172
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:23:35 AM
Many of these same people elected a president, TWICE, that had convictions and arrests for DUI's and theft, who spend most of his life an alcoholic, and who only discovered God at the end of his life.


It sounds like Obama followers are saying..well if Johnny can spit Jack can too. na nana na nanaaaa.

You seem to be dismissing whats going on with Mr. O. with trying to diswade us with, the fact that Johnny did it too. It was wrong then, its wrong now. What is this? Kindergarten?

You guys seem to be wanting a change.. then lets do just that. Change the fact we let
"hooligans" be our boss. This is hopefully up to us to choose. Lets choose wisely.

Montreal Guy, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said..but, as for that last sentence, at least Bush did discover God. In my heart of hearts, I know, Obama's God is not my God. I don't think he has made that discovery yet. I dont approve of his church AT ALL.

Bush is an idiot. But Obama is scary. What's wrong with xraying? I think they all need to be xrayed. These people are running our country.

We need to know who these people are. Personal and up close. Obama cant handle an up close investigation, he will fail the test. He is already pulling the race card and whining about questions being unfair, when in fact, what people are trying to do is find out who he is. That's a natural thing to do...find out who will be the boss of me.

He is tearing us further apart with all this crap we are going thru with his preacher and his friends and constant refusal to debate others. We are calling each other horrible names. And why? Because we think differently.

What do you think its going to be like if he is elected. This world will be in a heap of trouble. After its all said and done, can he make you feel safe at night?

I didn't vote for Bush..but, his convictions and DUI's, and drinking has little to do with US personally (NOW, he is on his way out), as far as blatant security risks to our country I feel Obama portrays (for our future). There are SO many red flags to his story. That's just my personal opinion. I dont hate the guy. He is very carismatic. But he has no substance to what he says. Hes like Peter Pan.

My opinion is this. In these troubling times we all are going thru, its time for a warrior. We should be united, not torn apart as we are. I dont feel in my gut O. has the 'where with all' to keep us all together as a whole, or the courage to stand up for us ALL, in the time of need. To sound just a little dramatic here, the world is in a lot of trouble right now... and the closer O. gets to the top, the more my gut churns and my heart sinks.
 NERO1

Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 173
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:31:50 AM
QUOTE: Actually, my favorite candidate did get the girl; Dennis Kucinich. He my not be President, but he definitely married the furthest out of his league!

^^ I agree exodusi. Kucinich would be much more to my liking as president, personally. But I'm also realistic enough to know he'll never get the Dem nomination in this country and , the current 2-party system being what it is here along with the whole "electoral college" , etc, he'd never have a chance. Want to hear heresy? Personally I would abolish the whole Republic system, and put in place a liberal parliamentary democracy where more than 2 official parties are recognized and accepted; where there is no such thing as an "electoral college" (something originally put in place during times when the masses were hopelessly ignorant, by wealthy landed Anglo elitists in any case); and where a gov't can collapse based on "no confidence". Bush's "coalition", if he'd even have ever been able to become PM in the first place, would have collapsed long ago. Still more heresy? America needs to get onto the metric system (along with the other two remaining non metrics -- Liberia and Burma ) and quit calling what everyone else in the world calls football soccer ! So I'd run on that sort of platform, basically.
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 174
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/9/2008 7:45:57 AM
Montreal Guy, I'm not disagreeing with what you've said..but, as for that last sentence, at least Bush did discover God. In my heart of hearts, I know, Obama's God is not my God. I don't think he has made that discovery yet. I dont approve of his church AT ALL.


And YOUR God once wanted you to not throw stones, before examining your own heart.

Bush found God ?

How many poor people did he help - compared to Obama ?

How many innocent men and women have died ?

How many American servicemen and women have died ?

If you look at Obama's earliest efforts to help the less fortunate, he's walked a consistent path. You can walk the walk, or talk the talk.

Any look into Obama's background will prove that he's walked that walk a lot better than any other US Presidential candidate has in recent memory. He did that when it meant he lost out on chances of making much more money. Just for that alone he should be applauded.

If you read testimony from people that have known him, from his childhood days until now, they show a consistent pattern of concern for others.


"What if a politician were to see his job as that of an organizer," he told reporter Hank De Zutter in a 1995 article in the Chicago Reader, "as part teacher and part advocate, one who does not sell voters short but who educates them about the real choices before them? As an elected public official, for instance, I could bring church and community leaders together easier than I could as a community organizer or lawyer. We would come together to form concrete economic development strategies, take advantage of existing laws and structures, and create bridges and bonds within all sectors of the community. We must form grassroots structures that would hold me and other elected officials more accountable for their actions." As a politician, he has not always fulfilled those lofty ideals, but they still animate his presidential campaign.

One thing is clear about Obama: No matter what he learned on the streets of South Chicago, in the classrooms of Harvard Law School, in the church he joined or in the gritty politics of the Illinois Senate, he had the air of a "natural." When Kendall first met Obama shortly after he came to Chicago, she recalls telling her husband, "I just met somebody we're going to say we knew him when. He just had some quality about him, something special. I can count the number of times I've said that on one hand. It was just a presence and self-assurance about him at such a young age."

And after Obama became DCP's director, Bagby recalls, "I said, 'What am I doing following this young boy?' But he was just so knowledgeable, and he knew just how to get you to do what you needed to do, and he knew what we needed to do. I never knew anybody who could lead somebody without them knowing he was leading."

But even a natural needs some training and practice. Gerald Kellman, who first recruited Obama, taught him the basics, and he also learned from organizing trainers associated with the Gamaliel Foundation and the Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF). Both organize community groups, primarily religious congregations, and trace their lineage to Saul Alinsky.

Alinsky, the patron saint of contemporary community organizing, started working in the Back of the Yards neighborhood, next to the Chicago Stockyards. In 1941 he established the IAF, envisioning his neighborhood work as a complement to industrial union organizing.

Neighborhood churches were important institutions in Alinsky's strategy and became even more critical to the work of his heir at the IAF, Ed Chambers. Alinsky and his disciples wanted to help ordinary citizens create powerful local organizations that could demand change from politicians and corporate executives. They focused on developing relationships among community leaders, such as pastors or lay leaders of congregations, who could mobilize other people through their institutional connections.

Gregory Galluzzo, a Gamaliel founder, was one of Obama's teachers. "I tell people I'm a mentor," Galluzzo says, "but an organizer is like a musician. A musician has to play music. Somebody listens and points a few things out. But nobody teaches a jazz musician jazz. This man was gifted. An older musician would know if a young musician was practicing, and Barack was always practicing."

Practicing involved one-on-one meetings with potential leaders-listening to them and developing relationships, then getting those leaders to mobilize other people for "actions." Alinsky often favored flamboyant, theatrical confrontations, but the typical action for contemporary faith-based community groups like Gamaliel is a large meeting where community leaders present their case for change, then demand a commitment of concrete support from some official.

According to other organizers and community leaders who worked with him, Obama insisted on democratic process and resisted exaggeration of successes. And he followed the organizers' credo: Be accountable to others and demand accountability from leaders in return. He pushed the local leaders into the limelight, they say, keeping himself in the background.

Loretta Augustine-Herron, a part-time teacher who was a DCP leader, recalled one such occasion, a meeting with a city employment and training official. Augustine-Herron was supposed to be the group leader for the meeting. "This lady came in and was very aggressive and domineering," she says. "I was supposed to introduce the issue, and she tried to take over. She said, 'You don't even know what we do.' From the back of the room, Barack shouted, 'We want to hear about the issue. We want to hear what Loretta has to say.' Then the whole group picked up the chant, and she backed down."

While he often stayed in the background, Obama was anything but passive, according to his former fellow organizers. Galluzzo recalls Obama's efforts to organize residents of Altgeld Gardens, a Far South Side public-housing development, to demand removal of asbestos from their apartments. The night before a trip to meet with Chicago Housing Authority officials a big crowd turned out, but the next morning few people showed up for the trek to the CHA office. So Obama began dragging people out of the projects into the van.

"People the night before promised to take a stand," Galluzzo says. "But the people in public housing, they didn't show up after they said they would. The organization's reputation was on the line. Barack was on the line. And Barack filled that van. We had our action. An organizer is one who says, 'Damn it, I'll make it happen.' People don't just rise up."

Obama was also empathetic, even with his antagonists. In his autobiography, Dreams from My Father, he recounts that during the Altgeld asbestos campaign, he felt anguish for an official who was on the verge of attempting a cover-up that would backfire on him.

Fellow-organizer Mike Kruglik recalls Obama's approach with panhandlers. "Instead of giving 50 cents and walking down the street, he'd engage a person and invest some emotion in that person," Kruglik says. "I remember him saying, 'That could easily be me. There's not that much that separates that kind of person from me.' There was some relationship between his capacity to empathize and his determination to do the job, the possibility starting to gel in his mind that he could create this organization of African-Americans that would be very powerful."

http://www.nhi.org/online/issues/149/obama.html


I defy you to bring evidence forward of any candidate running today who had that kind of determination, drive, compassion and concern for the common man.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

Nor thy candidate for President.
 Reddwine

Joined: 4/15/2006
Msg: 175
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obama's chances in the general election
Posted: 5/9/2008 11:44:03 AM
Dennis Kucinich does have a happy face, doesnt he?

Montreal Guy, I truly hope I'm wrong. I will be back in this forum post haste, and publicly apologize with a smile on my face while I do it.

I feel the bad has outweighed the good now. Should I go back and read more on his background? Absolutely. Will it change my gut feeling about him? I'm not too sure about that one.

side note: Rumor has it some statements in Mr. O's. book arent true, if thats your reference point.

I guess I will have to read it and find out for myself huh? and theres no doubt he has passion for 'his people'. Im not arguing that fact.
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