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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:52:05 AM | There are some men out there that take women for granted and there are also some women out there that take men for granted. I think most people just try to do their best with each day that goes by. Sometimes we accomplish making our significant other feel loved and appreciated and sometimes we don't. No one can be the perfect spouse all the time.
There are also some men and women who like to play the martyr and take on too many task all by themselves. When asked if they need help they say no then explode at you later for not helping when they told you not to. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:28:55 AM |
People will be taken for granted as long as they allow it to happen.
You know, this statement (and all variations of it WRT wording) is really starting to sound like glib, disingenuous, dismissal of the problem. I have a real problem with airily dismissing issues.
Yes, we ALL have freedom of choice, but let's get real: we're ALL products of our upbringing, so our free choices will be influenced, to a greater or lesser extent, by our upbringing. Someone who had one or the other parent abandon them, f'r instance, will see relationships differently than someone who didn't, and may (or may not) see something as "being taken for granted".
If you aren't willing to communicate about your expectations in a relationship then you are doomed to be taken advantage of. Simple really.
Not simple at all. Relationships involve human beings, not "Holmes on Homes" fix-it-quik schemes.
Arlo | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:41:58 AM |
The world doesn't care about your self esteem. The world expects you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.
That's fine; but, I'm not dating the "world", I'm dating a SO. There's a REASON they're called SIGNIFICANT Others.
Common courtesy and respect are not accomplishments. They are life long principles that should be practiced every day of your life.
Absolutely; and, one of the tenets of (not-so) common courtesy suggests that it's a Nice Thing to make y0ur SO feel special.
Arlo | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 9:56:21 AM | | It depends, some femenists who want to be more equal that guys instead of a true 50/50 equality would say they are being taken for granted. Yet I don't believe there are any more women being taken for granted than men as been pointed out in the "Are US men being taken for granted" thread. Of coarse in society in general, it has been taught that a "good" person is one who sits by and lets people walk all over them. And anyone who stands up to say "No, you are doing such and such to me. And I would appreciate it if you didn't..." gets labeled with some creative negative judgment to make them out to be a "bad" person. And can anyone help but believe it? I mean many parents teach it because it was taught to them by their parents, schools teach it, religions teach it, etc. So many people who follow similar beliefs like that are going to feel like they've been "taken for granted". Yet if you let someone keep saying or doing something that you truly don't like, let them know because they may be unaware from how they grew up because it was considered "right" to do so from where they came from. That doesn't mean start casting negative judgements at them to make yourself "right" and making them "wrong". It doesn't do any good for someone who feels they are being "abused" or "taken for granted" to sit by and let it to continue on, and neither does it do any good to the one who is doing it... | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:06:53 AM |
The world doesn't care about your self esteem. The world expects you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.
Would be interesting to know that everything in your experience is an EFFECT of what you are feeling and not the other way around. Many have this idea for instance "If I have money then I can buy the things I really want. Then I can be happy..." Yet it's the other way around. Don't take my word for it though. Go jog down the street, go to the gym, or do anything. You will find out on the days you are feeling joyful, you will be able to run furthur, do more excercises, etc. than you could on a day you were feeling a bit negative like being depressed. When you are feeling compassionate, you end up saying/doing compassionate things. When you are angry you end up saying/doing things out of anger. You will never be able to change anything in your life if you continue to feel like you are the victim of someone or something outside of you instead of realizing you are the cause of it. Then all you have to do is choose again to be something you really want to be... | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 11:17:08 AM | No one can take someone for granted without their permission, ultimately.
{all general "you" references here} If you think you're being taken for granted, figure out a way to change it. That goes for male AND female. Don't sit around boo-hooing that you're not being treated right. Why should anyone love you/look out for your well-being more than YOU for YOURSELF? | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 2:45:38 PM | I was taken for granted during my marriage. When I left my marriage ... I gave up so much just to get out of it that I was grateful that I at least stood my grounds and did get 1/2 of the proceeds when the house was sold. But then, I had also contributed to the building of it physically as well, so even though all inferences have always been that I'm a lazy good-for-nothing, I decided that this lazy good-for-nothing was not just going to give him absolutely everything.
I will never again allow anyone ... man or woman ... to take me for granted.
I don't think women are being taken for granted, but I can tell you that US american women have priced themselves out of the marketplace. You left out family, too. Fair? I think I speak for most when I tell you I'm sick and tired of hearing what's fair from those of you who haven't the slightest inclination of being fair on anything. You sell us out, throw us out, and put us out every chance you get. The only valid points are your own, and few actually make valid points for the lack of actual need.
To those men who have been unfairly treated or even believe they have been ... the only thing I can say is that not all women are like that and it's unfair to assume that they are. Just remember that the issue of being taken for granted is not a gender issue. Men do take women for granted.
Does it occur to anyone here that we are all products of our environment? Are men taking women for granted because that's what they lived when they were growing up? Are women taking men for granted because that's what they lived when they were growing up?
Is the above behavior a combination of our environment and our life experience?
To just make this a gender issue is what is not FAIR. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:09:17 PM | When in my marriage,and pushed to the brink, physically, spiritually ,mentally, and my
health started failing from the pure mistreatment, I got out. Did I feel taken for granted? Not exactly, more like being bled dry until there would be nothing left but a dead carcass, to be kicked aside. Way beyond taken for granted.
Have I felt like it since? Not for long. If I start to feel that way I leave before much
damage is done. You see it is all up to the individual if you feel taken for granted or not. It takes the dynamics of two for this to occur.
That is what women were trying to get across in the other thread. If you feel taken for granted, do something about it instead of whining. There`s always a door and you can always choose to stay alone.
You will not hear any male bashing or whining from me on this thread. No need to.
If a man isn`t treating me fairly, I will be gone. End of story. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:50:55 PM |
Someone who had one or the other parent abandon them, f'r instance, will see relationships differently than someone who didn't, and may (or may not) see something as "being taken for granted".
Thats total molarky! I dont belive that one, one bit! A person make his own choices. This blaming the parents for WHAT you do or WHO YOU ARE, is just lame. Granted not everyone has perfect set of parents... and I am one of them... they lost the right to be my parents long time ago (but i wont get into that)!! You have your own mind! And yeah YEAH to the same doode... It isnt excuse or some pathetic reason.... Anyone who allows it IT WILL HAPPEN!!.. Heck if you allow someone to hit you in the head.. do you think they wont? it is Duh!!!!! | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:54:01 PM | | ^ Some people are more damaged by their interactions with others than other people. It's the "highly damaged people" that this happens with. There are plenty of people walking around with severe abandonment issues--- and they aren't just people who've lost parents. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:11:23 PM | Good post, rather thought provoking. Both sexes could go on about "oh today, I feel taken for granted, it's Friday and it's payday. All my sweetie wants is to get laid or to get into my wallet" 
As a boomer, there are times I go back & forth between the "cleaver" days, and the 2008 era. Talk about mass confusion! I wished to god that I had a role model, but I didn't. Sometimes, I do feel like I'm taken for granted. Over the years, women have made the choice to go to work, but for most, that choice has become a necessity. I would think that by more women working, it has enabled men to have more freedom of choice over their careers and job choices that they make. Some men have even been able to stay at home! I'm not so sure that husbands appreciate their wives for that. Both sexes, to some degree are in unchartered territory. We struggle over generations, trying to reinvent our roles. Sometimes, we find that we go back to the basics "hunter" vs. "gatherer".
No relationship should endure disrespect. Women need to step up to the plate and let men know what they need and want. At the same token, women need to convey to a man in "bullet points", keep it short, keep it simple, and TO THE POINT! On the flip side of the coin, men need to open up their ears (clean out the wax), keep your mouths shut, and LISTEN! For both sexes, it's wise not to give advice to the other unless ASKED! What will irritate the pants off me is when a man will try to "fix me" or "change me". A wise couple will find that their relationship will endure (good & bad), if they appreciate each other, listen (without judgement), help each other have an easier life (help out with chores). Last but not least, a couple of good belly laughs each day will help. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:14:40 PM | | Ya think--of course we are taken for granted. At least with the men I have had the unpleasure of meeting. We are good for sex and well--ummm--sex | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:41:46 PM | I was taken for granted during my marriage.
I believe that a truly good man will respect the woman, be grateful and helpful.
Having said that, I also believe that one of the ways of showing love to a man is to actually do things for them, and I do take pride in preparing my man's favourite dish, or getting his work clothes ready.
I'm a traditionalist and, ideally, my man would be solvent enough so I only have to work part time and I can care for the house, children, etc so, when he comes home from work, he can just relax. Not because I'm lazy, but because I would love to be able to have dinner ready, prepare him a hot bath and give him a massage so he can rest. If he is a good man, he would appreciate those things and give me the respect necessary for them.
The gender division is a funny thing, it's down to the individuals. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:51:33 PM | You know , for me, I have just accepted the way things are nowadays. It isn`t like it was a generation or two ago. It is a different world. I take care of myself with absolutely no expectations of a man in my life. I am becoming self contained and
resiliant and strong, so as to not be able to be affected by another person. I don`t think the rules of the past are going to be part of this new society. I think it will be very individualistic and don`t believe that the nuclear family will be the majority.
I believe that most people will remain single. I think there will be offspring, but the childrearing will be very different from in the past. It is happening already.
I also don`t think that love and emotion between men and women will be strong in the mix. it will be more about self improvement/achievement and setting and achieving personal goals. It is getting to the point that legally , financially, and ethically, dating and having relationships are becoming way too risky to become involved with, within this culture. I don`t think it is actually good for us, but I do think that this is the trend and this is what is happening. There may be bonds, but more for social, financial goals, and often short term. Yes humankind is changing, and I believe that the "Luxury" of feelings and human emotion are going to become secondary to survival in this complex and dangerous future.
Gee, Wasn`t Hitler working on a program with those goals, come to think of it?
Scary stuff. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:55:39 PM | I think the current celebrity/image lifestyle that is infecting (yes, I use that word purposefully) the USA and the UK is making women into some ugly people, I find many women who have very nasty attitudes and it doesn't surprise me one iota that they end up without a stable relationship or in broken marriages.
I live in the UK and knew a British woman who said "if my husband doesn't agree to the new kitchen, I'll make his life hell".
Then we wonder why men don't trust us anymore...
Personally, my grandmother (RIP) used to tell me stories of women whose husbands sent them back to their mums because they didn't know how to cook. She told me that a good wife knows how to cook, is clean and tidy, and keeps the children clean and well fed. She never told me a good wife has a high flying job, earning lots of money and "making her husband's life hell".
My grandmother was married for 57 years before she died. My other grandparents, thank God for them, have just celebrated 60 years of marriage. My granmothers never went to work, they never had too much money, just simple lifestyles, but the family is close together and we all value each other above other things.
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but one has to wonder what does actually bring true happiness in a relationship. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 4:58:58 PM | ^ Along the same lines-- I saw one of those House Hunting shows while I was visiting my parents. (Mom is really into houses.) The guy was looking at the garage and he was excited: "Hey, this is big enough for my band to practice without bugging [fiancee]!"
Cut to her in a room by herself, "If he thinks his band is still going to be hanging out when we're married, he has another thing coming!"
Now--- isn't that information that you share BEFORE you enter into a life long commitment? | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:07:49 PM | do we take the opposite sex for granted?
well i would ask the opposite,why do ladies consistently fail to meet up to reasonable expectations?
how many women are houseproud,good cooks,hard working,with family values?
who do we blame for this?too aften ladies say something like,i cant try to be superwoman,but since when does being able to cook and tidy up require superhuman strength,or to showconsideration toward her partner by bringing the occasional coffee.
instead you hear,`get your own,im burnt out`
maybe if ladies acted more feminine rather than competing to prove they are `better` than men we would all be far happier | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:12:55 PM | Rosalinda,
I wish you luck finding a man that is willing to accept you with a partial income. It may happen, but not the norm. From my experience, you need to be able to shoulder the bulk of household bills on your own, in order to be considered a "good catch" plus all the other pampering stuff too. But maybe you will find that Prince Charming. It`s way too much work to be Superwoman for me any more, had enough years of that and am really burned out. So I don`t even try. I think alot of women are there.
I wrote a guy the other night who stated how he wished things would go back more to the traditional ways where a man is a man and a woman a woman.
So I asked him" How does that work financially? Do you pay the bills, give her spending money, what about clothes and haircuts, stuff she needs ? Does she ask for money? What about security and retirement.
Well he very politely wrote me back, that although he felt the traditional roles were better within the home, he was progressive enough to accept that she would probably
want to pay her own bills by working full time too. That pretty much explains what is going on. Aint that a good plan y`all? | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:25:07 PM | Merry,
Well, for me this is an eternal debate.
Currently, I work full time, and support myself and my daughter, the rent, the nursery fees. I live in the UK, where the welfare state is stupid, and I could say that I'm depress because of my divorce, be given a house by the council, money for bills, a ridiculous rent and benefits.
But, I'm not that kind of woman, I'm comitted to have a better life. I work hard, cook, iron, wash, play with little one, try to teach her things, mow the lawn and clean the windows.
But, however...
I'm old fashioned. I'm not saying I want to work part time so a man maintains me. If we both work full time, who takes responsability for chores? both of us? How many hours, after coming home exhausted, do we need to dedicate to keep up with chores?
This is why I would like to have a part time job. So I can do the shopping, the washing, the cooking, sort the bills, get the children to and from school (no childminders) so, when my husband comes home, the children are sorted and relaxed, their homework done, and we can all have actual quality time, and we don't have to use the weekends for the supermarket shopping, but we can use them to do things as a family, go out or whatever.
And what's this of paying her own bills? Is it that electricity, water, gas, internet, etc are splitted among the family members? The household bills are a joint thing, like the mortgage, for instance.
The problem is the concept of the high maintenace women. I'm not saying that I want to stay at home to go to the gym, have my hair done, varnish my nails, have coffee with friends and pay somebody to do my ironing. I'm not saying I want to be a lazy bone, I'm saying that I would prefer a redistribution of roles that allows for everything that has to be done to actually get done, and for the family to have quality time.
And, very importantly, for the husband to come home and be glad, knowing this is his place of solace where he is loved, cared for, where he can rest, relax and let go.
To me, this is an even more important part of loving your husband than just bringing money for the sake of it. I've seen such families. Men and women are stressed, tired, irritable, their children are all over the place. I would like something rather different, and happier, for our future. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:32:28 PM |
You know , for me, I have just accepted the way things are nowadays. It isn`t like it was a generation or two ago. It is a different world. I take care of myself with absolutely no expectations of a man in my life. I am becoming self contained and
resiliant and strong, so as to not be able to be affected by another person. I don`t think the rules of the past are going to be part of this new society. I think it will be very individualistic and don`t believe that the nuclear family will be the majority.
I believe that most people will remain single. I think there will be offspring, but the childrearing will be very different from in the past. It is happening already.
I also don`t think that love and emotion between men and women will be strong in the mix. it will be more about self improvement/achievement and setting and achieving personal goals. It is getting to the point that legally , financially, and ethically, dating and having relationships are becoming way too risky to become involved with, within this culture. I don`t think it is actually good for us, but I do think that this is the trend and this is what is happening. There may be bonds, but more for social, financial goals, and often short term. Yes humankind is changing, and I believe that the "Luxury" of feelings and human emotion are going to become secondary to survival in this complex and dangerous future.
Gee, Wasn`t Hitler working on a program with those goals, come to think of it?
Scary stuff.
Times are changing. We are now feeling the impact of what was set in place by those two genrations ago. As for the world in general, it's going through a serious overhaul. Alot of the beliefs of the past are beginning to be changed, beliefs such as how one person is "greater" or "lesser" than another due to gender, race, religion etc. which just isn't true no matter how you try to justify it. As time goes on the truth of people's beliefs are having a serious impact on their lives. Truths such how a person tries to expect more love, trust, respect, etc. in a relationship than they are willing to give and expect the relationship to truly work out, which is just impossible. People are waking up to the fact that old beliefs such as going to a relationship in need, trying to see what you get out of it, just isn't working. That it's all about what you put into a relationship that makes them work...
As for feelings, the problem that many are beginning to realize is that ignoring your feelings/emotions is causing all the "bad" experiences in the world. Many trying to rationalize everything instead of listening to their heart is what's causing life to be viewed as some constant struggle. And really can't blame people for believing stuff like that because it was taught to them by their parents who were taught by there parents and so on, schools and religion also teach to a certain extent that feelings/emotions are "bad". Emotions are your soul's way of communicating with you. Even in the later half of the last century scientific evidence has confirmed the existence of the soul. And the soul knows alot more about where you want to go to be truly joyous in life, and communicates through feelings/emotions to let you know. Yet so many are taught to ignore those people who say to follow your heart. Some act like it's just some saying whipped up by daydreamers. And the truth of the matter of people ignoring what's truly in their hearts is becoming more and more evident in the world each day. Yet look at the world and the effects of ignoring your heart...
As for Hitler... ironically enough he was trying to work towards peace by trying to jumpstart an old prophecy. Little known was the fact that Hitler was only a spokesman for the Thule Society that ultimately was responsible for the beliefs that Hitler advocated to society. What's really frightening is not that Hitler himself believed in those unloving beliefs, millions of people went along with him because they actually thought he was "right"... | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:34:54 PM | modified excerpts from my post written early on in 'that other thread'....
part of women appearing to have become more like men here, i think, is due to the degree of their needing to become sole providers so often now.....and I don't mean the ones living off child support and alimony (and some of us do not get those, believe it or not) and in fact i side with the men on this one - it seems to me those women take their alimony and child support completely for granted! but i digress now and that comment should have been on the other thread.....argh! it's getting so confusing!!!
anyway, it seems both sexes have very high expectations of themselves and each other and it's destroying our humility, our gratitude, and our taking real care of (meaning treating carefully and respectfully) ourselves and each other.
i believe we are all pretty incredible....it's a shame the financial pressures of life here have created so much distortion on what is important.....and it really is both sexes who are suffering from this illusion of in order to create enough wealth just to survive, that we can do it all by ourselves and not need anybody......to the other extreme of taking no responsibility and expecting others to take care of us completely - the stereotype sadly being men are the providers and women are the caretakers. but that no longer works for either sex, though some sadly refuse to give that one up and take responsibility for themselves. i guess both extremes are the problem.
truth is i think we do all need each other.....we need to find community again and to start remembering we are all connected.....so that we can treat each other really as we wish to be treated.
* * * * * * * * * *
edit to add: discussing hitler and the origins of his beliefs does not really seem relevant to this thread. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:36:38 PM |
I don't think women are being taken for granted, but I can tell you that US american women have priced themselves out of the marketplace.
(Gwen bites her tongue again, willing herself not to make a rude comment about redundancy. )
I didn't know that American women were for sale. Should I lower my going rate?
I can't speak for all women in the US, but I know that in my marriage, I was certainly taken for granted. I also know that it is a common refrain among married women whom I know. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 5:42:37 PM | well the pricing out of the marketplace analogy is very apposite and far from a redundant concept,many men either cant afford or dont want high maintenance women unwilling to provide meals,do cleaning,or help with chores because they consider it beneath them.
i commend the patience of some men,but like thousands of others we are drawn to take thai/oriental brides who are genuinely willing to help | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/25/2008 6:02:46 PM |
(Gwen bites her tongue again, willing herself not to make a rude comment about redundancy. )
I didn't know that American women were for sale. Should I lower my going rate?
Figuratively speaking.
I can't speak for all women in the US, but I know that in my marriage, I was certainly taken for granted. I also know that it is a common refrain among married women whom I know.
If you look at the question in general terms, no. | |
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