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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:30:21 AM | It was like that in marriage.
He wanted my income, he wanted the household taken care of too.
He wanted the old fashioned marriage..with the little woman in the kitchen and doing 100% of the housework...but...he also wanted the income from a full time job for the little woman too.
It was an issue finally... I was just too tired to care. I had two full time jobs!
The thing that was an issue to me...was...whenever there was something that needed to get done around the house, it was always MY job to do it! It was always... me asking "Dear, could you do me a favor...." WAIT.. why is it a favor to me that he do some of the work around the house too?
Once upon a time I got really sick of it... and just stopped doing the laundry. I wasn't going to ask him to "do the laundry for me"... nope.. it wasn't for me...it was for US. So, if I had to ask him to do it I would be in effect saying "it's my job..but please do it for me as a favor"...so I didn't ask and I didn't do it myself either. Rather than pick up the laundry and wash a load..he was going out and buying more clothes!! Good grief.
Yes... in marriage...women are taken for granted. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 6:59:24 AM |
The world doesn't care about your self esteem. The world expects you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself. Common courtesy and respect are not accomplishments MSG:39
True, you need to be happy first with yourself, your life and ego, and then being with a s/o only enhances or enriches the other parts of sharing and bonding of life's moments and happiness.
personally I want a partner not someone I have to build up everyday
But if you go into a relationship in trying to find your self or make you happy the chances of failure are greater because he/she can't make you happy,you have to be happy first with yourself !
Your ego is governed more by emotions and not by rational or practical expectations and all the success and money from your s/o will not make you happy because there will always be something missing within you. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:10:14 AM | Re the Opost:
Yes, US women are being taken for granted and so are most women around the world not just the US. Yes, US men are being taken for granted and so are most men around the world not just the US.
Why? Because taking others for granted, or be taken for granted or think one is being taken for grated, be it on the basis of gender, nationality, political or religion affiliation, etc, well, those 3 are the world's biggest "sport" these days.
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:06:13 AM |
Just a question: why is it apparently automatically assumed that the ONLY alternative to a ball-busting femi-nazi is a "submissive" woman who will "kow-tow" to you?
I am not sure if you are addressing that question to me inasmuch as I "assume" that men want a submissive Asian wife (because I am not assuming it, I have heard too many men say that's what they want), or if you are asking why men think the only alternative to the feminazi is a submissive woman.
I have a question that I will not couch in ambiguous terms: why do SOME men assume that a woman who is independent and points out the inadequacies of a patriarchal society is out to bust their balls? Why are those women automatically labeled "feminazis"?
Because a woman supports equal rights does not mean she devalues males; because a woman points out the historical failings of Western society does not mean that she blames ALL men for that system. Men alive today weren't alive 100, 200, or 500 years ago, so why would I blame them for the system? However, some men perpetuate stereotypes about women (and men), and I will point that out.
Guys talk about women being too emotional; often, the hurt feelings of SOME males manifest in the way they think about women. Because they have been hurt, they see that all women are bad, are cheaters, and take them for granted. Their pain is obvious, but they don't know how to deal with it, so they lash out. Women do it, too, of course.
We need to judge individuals as individuals. Men often make statements about me that have nothing to do with the woman who I am--they don't even read what I say deeply enough to see what I am saying. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:28:42 AM | "johnlondonsingle" wrote (message 74) …
do we take the opposite sex for granted?
well i would ask the opposite,why do ladies consistently fail to meet up to reasonable expectations?
how many women are houseproud,good cooks,hard working,with family values? Now isn't that just precious?
So according to the above poster … it is a "reasonable expectation" that women be "houseproud,good cooks,hard working,with family values" … and if we don't meet those expectations in every way … we are not considered "partner material"?
who do we blame for this?too aften ladies say something like,i cant try to be superwoman,but since when does being able to cook and tidy up require superhuman strength,or to showconsideration toward her partner by bringing the occasional coffee.
instead you hear,`get your own,im burnt out` If men eat at home, and sleep at home, and change their clothes at home … then why is it just the (working) woman's job to do all the cooking, the cleaning, the wash, etc.? I raised my children (both genders) after a certain age (I believe it was 10 years old) that part of eating involves preparing the food as well as cleaning up after it, that part of pulling clean clothes out of the closet and drawers involves washing the clothes and replacing them in the closet or drawers, that part of using the bathroom and other areas of the house involves cleaning up those areas so that they will always be usable.
And I also taught them that since both genders generally share those activities in life, both genders should be able to sustain themselves when it comes down to it … it's never just one person's job unless one lives alone. Oh dear, now I know why I hate living alone … I have to do it all myself … 
maybe if ladies acted more feminine rather than competing to prove they are `better` than men we would all be far happier" So now it's "feminine" to be "houseproud,good cooks,hard working,with family values". Actually, it's pretty hard work and quite time-consuming. I should know … I was a stay-at-home mom for most of my 22-year marriage (mother of four). I also did the mowing, but that was my hobby … my yard and flowers and I enjoyed that, so never felt neglected if hubby didn't do it. He knew I liked it and was happy to let me do it.
Don't forget … if a lady also has a DIY man … she will no doubt eventually get pulled into helping with that as well … more work and more mess to clean up, more dirty clothes to clean, sometimes more food to cook if hubby's friends join in the work crew.
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 9:32:32 AM | | Who says that anyone needs blamed. If there's a problem you fix it... you don't stand around blaming people accomplishing nothing... | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:26:05 AM | For myself, when I was married, I worked full time, was fully responsible for all childcare, housework, laundry, all cooking, grocery shopping etc. I kind of had the traditional marriage but worked full time too. Most evenings my Hubby was in his recliner watching "His shows", as he proudly announced he had his feet up because he had put in his day. But I was not allowed to do so. I was normally badgered with honey do lists, and told to do extra projects in the evening to make more money. I was not allowed to sit down and relax. My usual day started at 4 AM and finished around 11 pm non stop. I also was not allowed to ask anything of him. NOTHING! He was the man.
Now I know , alot of guys think this is the way it should be. But when my health started failing from the load, I knew I had to get out or would probably ended up dead. How is that love, and how is that a good marriage? I know, maybe good for the man, but not good for me. So for the guys that prefer this kind of set up, I can say nothing more than you are inhumane. I would never get myself into this kind of situation again, and have stayed single for 16 years because of this. This is how my ex husband defined women`s liberation. | |
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Savona
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Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 108 | |
| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 11:50:36 AM |
maybe if ladies acted more feminine rather than competing to prove they are `better` than men we would all be far happier
Johnlondonsingle ...
Please tell me if you had a woman like this how would you act ??? What reasonable expectations would a woman have being with you?
If you consider keeping house cooking and such as feminine what do you do that would be considered masculine?
Savona | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:10:46 PM |
Now I know , alot of guys think this is the way it should be.
Perhaps in your small world, but in my world and the world of many people I know, 'alot' is hardly the norm. Sure, I know ONE guy who had this attitude, but 'alot'? Not in my world.
I lived with my ex for 8 years and the only time she did ANY of my laundry was when she didn't quite have a full load so she'd grab a few things of mine. The rest of the time, I did all of my own laundry as well as did kids clothes/diapers as often as she did. Same with other household chores. I did nearly as much including cooking and cleaning and worked full-time. She wasn't working at all.
I just can't buy the 'alot' estimate. Besides which, ' a lot' is two words. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:15:08 PM | I am not sure if you are addressing that question to me inasmuch as I "assume" that men want a submissive Asian wife (because I am not assuming it, I have heard too many men say that's what they want), or if you are asking why men think the only alternative to the feminazi is a submissive woman.
No, I was asking why (some) women seem to think that men HAVE to abide with an either/or situation: EITHER you have a ball-busting femi-nazi making your life a living Hell, OR you get a "submissive" foreign bride, and trample all over her self-esteem. I was never aware that marriage was a slave/master relationship; I always though it was a partnership between two people who, you know, "loved" each other.
We need to judge individuals as individuals.
I agree, to a 100% limit, with this. 
Men often make statements about me that have nothing to do with the woman who I am--they don't even read what I say deeply enough to see what I am saying.
I know what you mean, Jelly-Bean.
Arlo | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:30:55 PM | Capitano Blaugh.....
Darrrrrr.. I love ya dearly darlin', but with a budget of $8000 a year for domestic services, I could, and would happily hire professonials for all services needed, sex, cleaning and cooking included.
That would be WAY cheaper than the last woman I lived with.
I hear you Capitano, you are one of the very few men in these forums that MORE than stepped up to the plate in fulfilling their responsibilites as provider, husband and father. After you sharing some of the details of what happened in your marriage and the divorce, I certainly cannot blame you for feeling the amount of "anger" towards your ex that you do.................hell, I would feel some pretty intense anger and resentment myself.
The bottom line is that men (not just women ) can go through "burn out" resulting in "depression" from carrying the lion's share of responsibility for his family.
 Cheers Capitano, and may the last half of your life be a hell of a lot better than the first.  | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:41:52 PM |
Now I know , alot of guys think this is the way it should be.
I challenge that most strongly. I challenge you to provide facts and figures to show that "alot" (sic) of guys feel this way (ie that their wives should work full-time and also do most or all of the housework).
I don't doubt that your experience was as you say it was; but, saying that "alot" (sic) of guys -- which implies that a majority of them do -- think that way is a vile smear.
Arlo | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:47:14 PM |
I have a question that I will not couch in ambiguous terms: why do SOME men assume that a woman who is independent and points out the inadequacies of a patriarchal society is out to bust their balls? Why are those women automatically labeled "feminazis"?
I'll answer your question with one of my own: why do "independent" women think that belittling men who AREN'T responsible for their problems is going to have an effect on those men who ARE responsible for their problems? To put it another way: I'm NOT your abusive, alcoholic wife-beating ex; and, I can't (and won't) answer for his actions.
(that's the plural "your", BTW)
Arlo | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 12:57:35 PM |
After you sharing some of the details of what happened in your marriage and the divorce, I certainly cannot blame you for feeling the amount of "anger" towards your ex that you do.................hell, I would feel some pretty intense anger and resentment myself.
While there's no doubt that I was a pretty angry guy for a while, I don't feel angry at her or any woman simply because they are women. No doubt that some things the ex still does piss me off and some things that women say here piss me off, but I'm really the happiest, most at-peace kinda guy you've ever met....
... I just happen to be an unmitigated a-hole for the fun of it....
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 1:26:41 PM |
Msg: 3 -- how Brittney Spears looked in the latest Glamour magazine!
Wow, Brittney Spears NEVER looked all that great to ME!!! However, Mare Winningham has been a strong heart-throb of mine. Plain, human, and a hidden depth-charge of PASSION!!!! In any of the roles I have seen her in, she was always at the height of hidden passion, never brought to light due to hidden or prejudiced barriers. The ONLY role I have EVER seen her play where she was TRULY at her TOTAL WORTH was in the SciFi movie "Miracle Mile". I have seen her in OTHER movies where she TOTALLY FAILED, and THAT only due to the failings of the SCRIPT, and NOT her performance. Personally, except for "Miracle Mile", I don't think she was EVER dealt a fair deal. Many men consider her to be "plain", which is generally translated into "ugly". I HEARTILY disagree. So-Called "plain women" CAN be cast in QUITE SEXY roles IF they are ALLOWED to do so. Unfortunately, Hollywood has an UNWRITTEN casting procedure that apparently PREVENTS such women of this caliber to be cast in such roles.
This is PARTICULARLY SAD for men like me, who would PARTICULARLY PREFER NON-glamorous women in a VERY sexy role.
Glamorous women do NOTHING for ME. NATURAL is what does it for me. "Pam Anderson", glamorous yes, but a TOTAL turnoff for me. Mare Winningham, glamorous no, but SHE GETS MY STIFFY SPIFFY!!!! | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 1:49:29 PM |
Msg: 5 -- Are men still expecting their SO or wife to (in essence) work two jobs meaning a regular job followed by housewife duties.
OK, I OFFICIALLY HIJACK THIS message in preference to MY feelings on this subject.
Are men still expecting their SO or wife to (in essence) work two jobs meaning a regular job followed by housewife duties.
There MAY very well be such men. BUT, I REQUIRE my (future) wife to take care of the "Home Front" FIRST, in SPITE of her personal career. If she FAILS to do that, we have NO future together. In short, she must FIRMLY establish her PREFERENCES **BEFORE** we get PERSONALLY involved. I try to make this ABUNDANTLY CLEAR, but even so, misunderstandings DO occur.
I FULLY understand that this postiing will most likely make me UNPOPULAR with most women. That means NOTHING to me. Like MOST women, I search for an ideal MATCH. For me, that means a VERY SUBMISSIVE SLAVEGIRL who CHOOSES to be in such a relationship. Quite simply, if such is not her desire, the "NEXT" button is EASILY within her reach;
I REFUSE to make it ANY easier on HER. The CHOICE is SIMPLY HERS. She accepts or she declines. If she accepts, I consider it an ACTIVE acceptance, MEANING that ANY claims of RAPE or DECEPTION on HER part are INVALID. I make my choice, she makes hers. IF WE AGREE, and she is "disappointed" afterwards, NO CLAIM OF RAPE CAN BE MADE!!!! | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 1:57:26 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a charming chap for sure. Stand in line for this catch girls! Just what I have dreamed of!
I`m sure he is waiting for back up guys. Help him out here! Is he right? | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 2:25:38 PM | I expect my "SO" to make enough money in her day job so that we can afford to hire someone to do the housework or to agree to simplify housework so much that it does not take more than very few hrs per week to do it (ie keep a "Spartan" home).
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 2:27:02 PM | | so i said to my ex-husband: i provide 24 hour household life support (for you, the kids, the pets, the yard, the house, the shopping, the cleaning, the cooking, the laundry) and i have another full time paid job. what do i need YOU for??? | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:08:06 PM | In my last relation where we were living together, the ex probably felt I was taken her for granted. On the other hand, I made it relatively clear that I didn't expect her to do all the things that she was doing around the house, and that I would do those things myself when I had the time to do so (I was working long hours, not by choice but because that's what my job expected of me, and she wasn't working at all at the time). Problem was that she would do them anyway, and complain about doing those things, because she didn't like living somewhere that wasn't perfectly clean.
I like living on my own now. The house doesn't have to be tidy, and since I don't date, it doesn't affect anyone else that the house is a complete mess, and I only have to do a major cleanup once a month. My cat is not going to care as long as he has food and water 
And now I am stepping down from this soapbox cause it is chilly up here.
Ah, stay up there. I want to hear more 
In the end, communication about the relationship and what is expected of each other is essential. Otherwise you really do have yourself to blame if you ever feel like you've been taken for granted. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 3:22:06 PM | I think the only way I, personally, can be taken for granted is if I allow it to happen.
I think to say "us women are being taken for granted" says a lot of negatives about women in general.
This would mean we're all idiots.
I don't think that's true at all.
Are there women who get taken for granted? Hell, yes.
Are there men who get taken for granted? You betcha.
The only people that can change this are those people being taken for granted. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:09:28 PM | no man has ever requested that I would be his housecleaner. When I was simply a wife, I was still respected and not requested to do things I did not feel like doing... Gosh I must have been lucky! I was never taken for granted, nor I took anybody for granted. Oh wonder. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 7:49:05 PM | I start thinking that UNhappy people in general feel taken for granted.
After all, they have allowed themselves to think so.
Solution: They should take personal responsibility for their own mistakes and their own feelings. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 4/26/2008 8:46:28 PM | | Personally if the guy is the ONLY one, and I do mean ONLY one, bringing in the income the the woman shouldn't be complaining about doing "all that housework" because from personal experience taking care of the housework for years for a house of 6 doesn't take even 4 hours a day to do all of it when the average person works an 8 hour day. After all you don't have to clean the house every day, or do laundry every day... Though there are many femenists would would be out there trying to convince that it somehow made a woman "less" of a woman to be a stay-at-home wife if she truly wanted to. Why would anyone be "less" at anything for doing whatever makes them happy. Yet, I also say if there are kids, both parents need to be involved as much as possible, not just having one for instance taking the kids to all their soccer games and stuff. Both parents are vitally important in the lives of their children and shouldn't be pawned off on some babysitter all the time as it seems to be done more often these days... | |
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