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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/22/2008 8:17:04 PM | Having read the whole post I fell strongly enough to point out a few items -
[Sanschele wrote on page one “Yeah, I'm taken for granted until I dump them in the Gulf of Mexico and know more about how a rip current will take them out to sea in a New York minute and how to get them out of it when they're "floundering" helplessly in the water. omg..men are so entertaining to me when fighting for their life in a strong current. I have to shake my head, roll my eyes and then save their sorry a$$ when I feel they've had enough.”]
If a man wrote that the heat from the female side would have been enormous – I expect you mess with the mixture fore we dive also sweetheart or pack my chute to be a stringer? Once would be enough for me and I would leave your ignorant a$$. You are just as bad as the 15 year old guy that has to prove he’s better than everyone by flashing heat at school. Those that get their jollies by proving they are “better” need to be left alone.
Page three Cotter wrote: To just make this a gender issue is what is not FAIR. I whole heartedly agree. This is about both genders overstepping (intentionally or non) the bounds of equal treatment. I think the advice of the golden rule is appropriate: “Do unto others….,”
It seems in this thread, just like the other that there are some that have suffered greatly from previous experiences and haven’t let go. That may be keeping you from finding your next greatest love.
Are women being taken for granted? YES! Are there men being taken for granted? ABSOLUTELY! What we have forgotten here people is the word COMMUNICATION! If we communicate BEFORE, DURING, and hopefully not (AFTER) the relationship we wouldn’t feel like someone was taking advantage of us, her, me, him, or anyone.
StarreGazer wrote: Sadly, most folk don't understand this. BITTERNESS is the ENEMY, and it is EMBRACED by men AND women alike who have had emotional trauma inflicted upon them in such a manner that renders them ill-equipped to deal with a potentially healthy relationship.
Of all the things I have read that you posted THIS one thing stands out - Several posts up from OMO drip of bitterness and all of this from someone with such a firm grasp of what men are and what she wants. If we could all just leave the bitterness behind in our search for someone new the maybe we could find that elusive fishing buddy!
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/22/2008 9:37:21 PM | US women are rarely quiet long enough to "taken for granted."
Being taken for granted requires a degree of passivity not commonly found here in the US....
Personally,I don't have much use for a passive woman...but I could see where some might find them appealing. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/22/2008 10:41:50 PM |
Ok. So there were a relatively explosive thread titled “are US men being taken for granted?”. In all fairness, it is time we turn the tide and ask women the same question
I'm just really miffed how that thread ended, what, two days ago, but this thread apparently started around 4/23/08? I"m soooo lost!!
If you asked me, the deck is stacked in favor of women; Women get free luxuries simply for being women. (ladies nights, even free foods for moms and kids . AS was read a few pages back, men wear breast cancer ribbons supporting womens causes, but the reverse, regarding prostate cancer for men, is lacking the gender equivalent, in spite of slightly higher numbers of men dieing from PC. On this note, only recently did men get a Men Health (sic) Awareness Program in Washington that is federally funded, while women have billions in federally funded programs, benefitting everything from health, to education, to medical, to job placement, child care, etc.
Just watch the TV for an hour. Men are characterized as baffoons, bubbling idiots, the Homer Simpsons of life, while women like Marge, Raymonds wifie, etc. are shown to have such incredible tact for solving all the mens woes. Women are portrayed as hitting, kicking, and puching men around, but if the reverse were to occur, every womans rights group across the continent would be in an uproar. Look what happened to Bill Mahrers show, Politically Incorrect.
As stone429 pointed out, there's a lot of bitterness towards men coming from Sanschele or OMO and others who seem to spend an enormous amount of time b!tching and moaning, but.... alas.... At least I don't have to live with them, right? LOL
Here's to the single life.  | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:00:58 AM | um, ^^, sounds like you really can't shift gears - please - this is the 'are women taken for granted thread' and it did run concurrently for a bit with the other, but perhaps because women don't need a 100 page thread to express their views on this subject :), this one went quiet while the other stayed active.....
yes, i have felt taken for granted mostly by my children when they were younger and by my husband in my marriage that ended 18 years ago.
other than that, no, i don't take others for granted, and they don't take me for granted either.
perhaps it's a matter of valuing each other with real compassion and seeing yourself in another - if that's what it takes to appreciate them - to empathize with them.
we all are doing our best - i think it's time we all pulled together - men and women - to unite and work together on all the issues in the world today that divide people and turn them against each other.
truly respecting each other seems to be essential to not taking anyone for granted...
and perhaps truly respecting yourself might be what's essential to not letting others take you for granted either. | |
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shimbo
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Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 180 | |
| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:04:09 AM |
And if so, are you in essence placing unrealistic or outmoded demands on today’s woman whereas taking them for granted?
I place two demands on "today's woman" -
1) Good sex
2) Pay for herself
If that's unrealistic then it's time to shut down PoF. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:10:57 AM |
um, ^^, sounds like you really can't shift gears - please - this is the 'are women taken for granted thread'
^^^^^ so.... you would deny anything I've stated is true?
What is this? The Politically Correct version thread?
Seems to me, most women (present company excluded, of course) are the ones rendered incapable of shifting gears, or shall I say, that are refusing to.
I did note a significantly softer tone to this thread than the other; we'll see if it garners the same interest.
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:21:57 AM | m- not an attack, just it did not sound like it is talking about taking women for granted (or not), but how you are comparing your views of women and men issues....and i personally hate the way women are shown to abuse men on some tv commercials and programs - but who are the producers, directors, writers - men and women? who's agreeing to such diplays as entertainment?! I believe someone (we?) should stop that for it is completely wrong for either gender to be portrayed as it's ok or even a joke to hit another.
but, to keep this thread on target, hopefully, do you take women for granted? have you ever? in what way do you? what do you appreciate about women that you don't take for granted?
seems one poster above you thinks placing demands on women is connected - so perhaps he's taking for granted that women will give him great sex and pay for themselves - or taking it for granted they won't....can't really connect either of your posts to the thread topic.....and after the other one veering off course so far, it would be nice to try and keep this one on it and to try and stay compassionate is my wish anyway. thank you for softening your tone, mane! | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 5:37:55 AM | ^^^^^^The question was, are US women taken for granted// I simply responded. I didn't think so, and I gave evidence to support my thoughts. Yes, producers are males, directors, writers....yes yes.... so are legislators, politicians... yes.... I never said it was only women who needed to change their stride. I said the deck is stacked in favor of women, so I disagreed. Those producers, writers and legislators would switch gears if women were to take the same approach ,but, Reba, for instance, isn't likely to change her tune, so her producers aren't likely to change theirs either. She'll call the shots as much as a writer or producer, or she won't be showing up for rehearsal.
Do I take women for granted? If i did, it wouldn't be a consious effort. Since I've not dated in many moons, I'm kind of out of the loop, but as I look back, I still cannot see how I could have. IF anything, I tend to place those women I date on a pedastal, so... I tend to overindulge in the whole spectacle of love. Just MHO
it would be nice to try and keep this one on it and to try and stay compassionate is my wish anyway OK forum guru,  . I've noticed how you'd love more than anything for the world to stop and just give everyone else a big hug, and then make a continuous line, hand in hand, and sing the chorus from , "we are the world".   I'm just ribbin' here.... go easy now!! | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 10:17:38 AM |
1)Who CARES why it took "sooooooo darn long for men to finally start listening"? We ARE listening. There comes a point when you should just stop rehashing past wrongs, and be thankful that they're being made right. Constantly harping about past injustices fuels a LOT of this "being taken for granted" feeling; like, nothing we can do is ever enough.
2)That (a lot of) women were short-changed WRT legal and political rights HAS been addressed, and CONTINUES to be addressed. Are we at COMPLETE equity between the sexes? Of course not (I think we're BEYOND c0mplete equity in many areas, but that's grist for another thread). However, SOME feminists act as if, if the problem hasn't been solved 100%, it hasn't been solved even 1%. This attitude even filters down into ANY debate between men and women. Fact is, things may not be PERFECT, but they're a darn sight better than they used to be, and thanks largely to male hypersensitivity to the plight of women, they're getting better. So, stop wallowing in past misery. I may not be a farmer, but I know BS when I see it.
I agree with this! The problem with the “why did it take so long” and “we deserve to get paid back” attitude is that it undermines exactly what you are trying to accomplish. I don’t feel the need to be “paid back” for what I didn’t even suffer from or fight for. Women have accomplished a great deal toward gender equality. We aren’t there completely, but that won’t be accomplished with aggressive social or legal tactics. The problem with attempting to level the playing field with policies directed at one group is that it always ends up excluding the other groups. We as a society need to strive for true equality instead of fighting about who deserves more.
I think the way the question is worded sets up a gender divide, similar to the other thread. It leads the reader to think about it personally, rather that sociologically. Human beings are incredibly diverse, so every single person will have their own story, which will include at one time or another an instance of feeling taken for granted. The problem with this is two-fold. First, this is really a sociological issue – looking at trends, which by nature are not all encompassing. Secondly, when looking at this personally, perception will determine opinion. Frequently in relationship, intent and outcome differ greatly, so when one party feels “taken for granted” the other party may not have intended that result, so agreement on who was taken for granted will be impossible to determine.
Having said that, I think men sometimes forget history. Women had to be granted these “special” rights because we didn’t have them. White males have always had them. So, ManeRider, while I agree that on the surface that seems unfair, the reality is that medicine and medical procedures have always had efficacy and safety tested for the average white male before given “clearance” and then applied to everyone else.
There are numerous areas in which men are suffering, and areas in which women benefit. I do not disagree with this, but we continue to have a societal structure based on patriarchy. It is changing, but we aren’t equal yet. No one gender (or any other group) should be told to suck it up and deal with it! | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 12:27:13 PM |
the reality is that medicine and medical procedures have always had efficacy and safety tested for the average white male before given “clearance” and then applied to everyone else.
That's a joke right? No seriously you're kidding? More money has been spent on women's diseases than men since the 1920's. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 12:42:22 PM | *Stops and reads sign* ... Ladies Night free drinks.
Goes in bar and notices more men than women ...
I guess I didn't notice the subliminal suggestion to the Men ... Free Sex from cheap women getting free drinks
Who the heck goes to the Ladies free drink night ??? Hahaha that was so 70's.
WhaaaWhooo Still running ...  Looking for great freebies .... | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 1:03:47 PM | If you asked me, the deck is stacked in favor of women; Women get free luxuries simply for being women. (ladies nights, even free foods for moms and kids
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FYI, ladies nite is to get more women in the bar for us horney alchoholic guys...so what does that say about men in general? Seriously, do you think bars and nite clubs have ladies nite out of some deep moral and spiritual or legal obligation to women of the world? If you do, your a nut.
As far as free "foods for mom and kids" are you talking about welfare? Oh well...can't wait for my gender goons to chime in on that one too. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 1:12:08 PM |
FYI, ladies nite is to get more women in the bar for us horney alchoholic guys...so what does that say about men in general?
Thats what I like, a man who doesn't sugar coat it !!!
Yeaaaa !!! For telling it like it is.
Thanks olyman38 | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 1:24:41 PM |
That's a joke right? No seriously you're kidding? More money has been spent on women's diseases than men since the 1920's.
That’s what you focused on in my entire post???? Although I highly doubt your facts, I don’t have the time at the moment to look up stats. I will say that the reason so much energy has gone into women’s health in last couple decades was because we had to catch up! If you’ve read my posts in the other thread, in which I know you participated, I support the fact that men are being left behind and we are experiencing a backlash of the feminist movement. Men and boys are suffering. This fact, however, does not change the fact that women still do not have equality (neither do men, as I stated in the other thread because we are all scrambling to find a new state of homeostasis). Even as recently as 1982, with the study about taking an aspirin a day to improve your risk of not having a heart attack which include no female subjects, but was generalized to women even though it has been found to be contra-indicated in women as have many other drug and treatment studies. This, in fact, led to a law being passed in 1993 (can’t recall the name) which required that women be included in clinical drug trials. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 2:30:22 PM | some thoughts to keep this on track (hopefully) -
topic is "Are US women being taken for granted?"
for the US women:
do you feel taken for granted? have you ever felt taken for granted? if so, what made you feel that way? if not, what made you feel appreciated and not taken for granted?
for the men:
are you taking US women for granted? have you ever taken women for granted? if so, what things about them do you take for granted? if not, what do you appreciate and not take for granted with US women? | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 2:41:59 PM | | I do not take women for granted and try to treat them with respect...I wish a few women I have dated through this site did not try to use me though. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 3:30:35 PM | In response to zerospazz, has it ever occurred that perhaps the father should be the one to stay home while the wife works? While I certainly agree that handing over the care of one's children over to strangers can be unsettling, I do not believe that it should always be the mother whgo stays home. I think that the spouse who earns the most money should be the one who continues to work and the one who earns the least should be the one who stays home with the children. Atleast until they are old enough to go to school. I prefer to see things pragmatically than through gender-role steereotypes.
But nowadays with so many employment opportunities available that offer flexible scheduling, there is no reason why both parents cannot continue to work if they so choose. If many stay-at-home mothers have time to hang-out at Starbucks coffee, or hang-out at the mall all day, then there is no reason for her not to atleast work parttime to contribute to the family finances. But that is just my opinion. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 4:16:08 PM | myblueshadow
You say tomato, I say tomatoe
Having said that, I think men sometimes forget history. Women had to be granted these “special” rights because we didn’t have them. White males have always had them. So, ManeRider, while I agree that on the surface that seems unfair, the reality is that medicine and medical procedures have always had efficacy and safety tested for the average white male before given “clearance” and then applied to everyone else. /and/There are numerous areas in which men are suffering, and areas in which women benefit. I do not disagree with this, but we continue to have a societal structure based on patriarchy. It is changing, but we aren’t equal yet. No one gender (or any other group) should be told to suck it up and deal with it!
Your idea of patriarchy, and mine, seem to be ever so widely interpreted. White males had rights AND obligations, we had roles to fill, then, so when you speak of men already having those rights, well it isn't just a right to vote or hold office that matters here.
Just so you know, I think you contradict yourself here.
The problem with attempting to level the playing field with policies directed at one group is that it always ends up excluding the other groups
Were men excluded when women fought for and won their rights? The answer is yes; we, as men, granted them rights, yes? However, we've come a long way from barefoot and in the kitchen housewives, haven't we. ASk Hillary. The far side of this continuum is that women have billions in federally funded monies attached to a world of opportunity, that men do NOT have, in addition to the 'rights' women so desperately wanted. There is a level of prerequisite for men, today, that is absent for women, and in our capitalist's society we, in the US live in, it's generally revolving around money. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 4:43:35 PM |
(olyman)
FYI, ladies nite is to get more women in the bar for us horney alchoholic guys...so what does that say about men in general? Seriously, do you think bars and nite clubs have ladies nite out of some deep moral and spiritual or legal obligation to women of the world? If you do, your a nut.
I'm completely aware of why women are offered 'some' freebies, and if you think waiving a $10-$20 cover charge for women isn't outrageous, not to mention discrimination, then you're nuts. (you got beans for brains???) And yes, there are places Ive' seen who have special lunch and dinner opportunites for single moms with kids. Sorry, but maybe one should get out more?
(onmyown4) *looking left, looking right* Mad dashing for the freebies .....
(onmyown4)Who the heck goes to the Ladies free drink night ??? Hahaha that was so 70's it would be so incredibly awesome if I actually heard even a remotely intelligent arguement to the talking points made. The snide innuendos are just an AA$$ wipe, worthless dogma, from those who aren't capable of actually argueing on merits, but prefer using slander and untruths to harvest some attention. | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 6:11:57 PM | ^^^mane, i still don't see the relevance of your 'talking points made' from your two posts above with the topic of this thread......do they directly portray your belief US women are not taken for granted? if so, how?
i also feel your post, blueshadow, that mane is responding to, equally seemed like a continuation of the other thread instead of really sticking to the topic of this thread....perhaps that's my ignorance coming through, but as an example, i really don't see how the issue of whether more medical research was done for mens' or womens' medicines really has a direct relevance...
my fear - that if we let some of the stuff from the other thread creep in here, this one also will end up in thread heaven (or hell :). | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 7:34:25 PM |
The snide innuendos are just an AA$$ wipe, worthless dogma, from those who aren't capable of actually arguing on merits, but prefer using slander and untruths to harvest some attention.
Well ... isn't someone upset because I found the post very funny ... so very funny. Do you seriously think that offering women a free drink or door admission is a PLUS !!!
HAHAHA I think it is hilarious and I don't get why you would be upset considering I am a woman, I think the post of the ways in which we as women benefit ... as in ladies night would be a plus. I think it is very funny that you think it is for the women when it really is to draw the men in ... and hopefully they buy more drink$$$$ for the women, get laid then the men will be return customers. (Men being used by men for the benefit of $$$ for the club)
So what do I really think about a comment as such ... well it is actually degrading that you would think of it as a benefit to women when it shows the men's attitude STILL towards women and sex when ever men want ...
As in buy one drink past the FREE one ... ohhhh what a way to get men who normally couldn't get any to maybe get some ... from a woman or two who might have had a FREEBIE too many.
You ridicule me for my opinion, but revert back to turning everything back to the poor men who feel taken for granted. Still after 2,300 posts of constant complaining that we were turning the spotlight onto ourselves, and constant bashing from the men for making it about women ...
So anyway ... POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK !!! Give it up mane. Your disrespect is showing. I found your post funny, and so I am entitled to MY OWN OPINION, Right?
........... You say tomato, I say tomato !!! Hahaha | |
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| Are US women being taken for granted?
Posted: 6/23/2008 7:54:11 PM | Hell Yes we're taken for granted! I bust my butt all day to bring home the bacon...I clean the house, do the laundry, chauffer the kids, mow the grass, clean the pool, do the grocery shopping, cook dinner.....and ALL I ask in return is a sexy man in silk boxers...maybe a little foot massage...and an hour or 2 of wild sex....and he calls me a PIG! Say's I'm nothing but a damned sexist...and he's got a headache! LOL! what's up with that....I thought men WANTED to be "sex objects"!!!! LOL!
Message 155:
Example 1: Valentine's Day
All ABOUT HER When is that? If it's a work day....then it's about work.
Example 2: Anneversires
the guy plans everything and gives all the gifts I was married for 20 years. I never forgot to buy him a gift. LOL! and on the 2 occassions that he did remember...I got a rotitiller one year...and a snowblower one year! (in the divorce..he kept the snowblower...and I kept the rotitiller)
Example 3: Mother's Day and father's day
Mothers are spoiled on mother's day but on father's day men are not. In fact I have heard women complain about how father's day shouldn't even exist as men don't deserve it. Men wear breast cancer ribbons on mother's day but I have never seen a woman wear prostate cancer ribbons on father's day. On Mother's Day....I cook dinner for the family. On Father's Day....I cook dinner for the family.
Example 4: Dates and GIfts
All planned, paid for and given by men The guy I'm dating may disagree with you. He's taken me out for dinner 4 times. Last week we went to a baseball game. I bought the tickets....not the cheap seats either $60 each...right behind home plate! GO INDIANS! He bought dinner. Gifts? Check "ask a guy"...under "buying him a gift".
Example 5: Sex
When she wants it and it is all about her pleasure. LOL! and your point IS?
Example 6: Housework
Men are expected to do their traditonal housework and help women with their housework. Women don't do the same. When was the last time a woman ever helped a man shovel? Dude....can we say REALITY CHECK here? I shoveled the drive for YEARS.....just so he wouldn't have a heart attack...and so he wouldn't be too tired for wild sex! LOL! It was AFTER he bought ME the snowblower that HE decided to do the drive. I mowed the 1 acre....he did the trimming.
Example 6: Emotional support
Men give it but never recieve it when they need it just as much. Yeah, well...I'm as much a cave dweller as the men are....so I guess we're both out of luck.
Example 7: Domestic violence, sexual manipulation, divorce, hiding money, having affairs, false accusations of rape and abuse
all carried out by women in greater numbers Hmmmm, well.....never experienced any of that...so I'll refrain from commenting. | |
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